Continues from: /forum-replies.cfm?t=2507616&p=-1#bottom
I wonder, if the ABCC legislation does pass, could it have a knock-on effect on NBN construction timelines if the unions get agitated?
Guys can we get this petition shared on social media and maybe some tweeters help the tech media on to this please?
and here's another tweet for ppl to share:
https://twitter.com/dJOS_500/status/712410993968717824
Lets prove #nbn wrong, we want FTTP! #ausvotes #AusVotes2016 etc etc (links in tweet)
What is the difference to the consumer between skinny fibre and the current FTTP? Would you get the same NTD etc?
Laurie Patton ?@LJPatton
@karinakeisler @WAtoday @NBN_Australia @adam_turner @internetAUS Why FttN not FttDP/FttP in HFC 'holes'? #FibreToTheFuture
karina keisler
karina keisler � ?@karinakeisler
@LJPatton @internetAUS Simple. You know we are tech agnostic. Drivers are time and cost.
No Karina. Drivers are national benefits and then roi.
Mtm does nothing of that, compared to fttp.
Cost is irrelevant if you don't have the returns to pay for it.
Fifield was just interviewed on 612 ABC Brisbane radio and of course not a single question was asked about the NBN. #stillgagged
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
What is the difference to the consumer between skinny fibre and the current FTTP? Would you get the same NTD etc?
No.
The skinny fibre is only taken to the nearest pit to your home.
Then a reverse powered splitter modem sends signal to your home via existing copper lead in.
Fttp takes fibre right to your home, no copper.
Cost is irrelevant if you don't have the returns to pay for it.
Cost is very relevant. Half arsing it like they are doing now is going to cost us far more in the future.
I would love to see a new costing of scenario 4 done now (with real numbers) and compare that to FTTN, to see how close they are now. They cant be that far apart now.
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
What is the difference to the consumer between skinny fibre and the current FTTP? Would you get the same NTD etc?
No difference to the consumer. You get the same NTD on the wall, as has happened at those two areas they've installed it at thus far.
The splitter in the pit is passive for fibre. You only need reverse power if the skinny fibre is to use the existing copper lead-in and thus provide VDSL2 to appropriate modem inside the house (and thus act as FTTdp rather than FTTP). You need the power for the conversion from optical to electrical signals, in the screw-on connector piece, as Mr Chung from Corning demonstrated in the senate hearing.
Apparently, in that article where Bill Morrow has said how no-one actually wanted Google Fiber, that the NBN "...was built to make money, not as a public service".
Well, then, umm, why spend $56billion or so to install FTTN that doesn't seem much of an improvement over current ADSL2+ on the rotting copper lines, instead of providing FTTP that is an obvious step-up (differentiation to consumers to thus allow charging more) and is required by some people now, and even more people in the near future, who will pay for the "premium" performance (and who are sick to death of always having to add around $30/month "line rental" fee into Internet access cost in this country, even when on a "naked" service, and which does not seem to have ever filtered back into upgrades of the lines)...
And of course you wouldn't have to be making as much money back if you just went FTTP in the first place, instead of doing it twice over, with FTTN first and then rip it all out and go FTTP in future.
(And I'm sure there's a car analogy there somewhere, about whether people want to be paying through the nose at a car hire company for a rusted VW beetle no better than their own every day car, or having that money go into hiring something obviously more elegant, reliable and worthy of the expenditure.)
The skinny fibre is only taken to the nearest pit to your home
Sorry, I meant if I then paid for the change of technology or whatever it is called this week. ie to get fibre to the premises instead of copper from the gutter
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
Sorry, I meant if I then paid for the change of technology or whatever it is called this week. ie to get fibre to the premises instead of copper from the gutter
Well,three things.
One, you would be one the very selective few who would even have it to start with.
Two , it's going to cost a bucket to switch technology, because the ones selected are in areas where fttn is too costly to do or you are a long distance from the node. In which case, a long fibre lead in will need to be run.
Three. They say technology switching is available, but I am only aware of one successful case and was very costly.
hey say technology switching is available, but I am only aware of one successful case and was very costly.
How much?
Ran into tens of thousands.
Ok yeah Turnbull and Morrow can go to hell. Clear that oh you want the best technology? Please donate towards the "real nbn" to pay for our much better service so we can pay our upkeep and maintenance costs for the future. And even then we can't guarantee we'll do it but we will take your money anyway.
It's clear where they are hoping to get their money from now, its not from those forced to sign up on their crappy service. It's those knowing they want to get FTTH and they'll just rake in money from fibre on demand and then justify a "full fibre rollout" when enough people have requested it after taking their money
Two , it's going to cost a bucket to switch technology, because the ones selected are in areas where fttn is too costly to do or you are a long distance from the node
Yes, but from the gutter?
Some places o/s are offering a DIY option for this upgrade
"skinny fibre" can be run into the home or to a FTTdp exactly the same as the current "fat fibre" can.
The use of "skinny fibre" does not mean a switch to FTTdp.
The use of FTTdp was suggested as a better option than FTTN with a "cheap" upgrade path to full FTTP
Remember the Gentleman, Mr Chung?, from Coring was "backed into a corner" with the question about "whether it could be used to feed a FTTdp point"
His response was along the lines of "I suppose it could" not "yes it definitely can"
I guess Corning see "skinny fibre" as a full passive FTTP solution in the field, without any "added active items" in the field
https://www.stateoftheintern
Q4 2015 Report is out!
Q2 compared to Q4 quick summary -
Australia's average peak ranking drops from 46th to 48th
Australia's 10mbps adoption drops from 44th to 47th
and yeah we've pretty much either stayed stagnate for a year or dropped.
Australia saw the smallest increase
at 4.2% while Indonesia had the largest at 32%. Ten countries enjoyed
double-digit gains.
Australia's average peak ranking drops from 46th to 48th
Australia's 10mbps adoption drops from 44th to 47th
and yeah we've pretty much either stayed stagnate for a year or dropped.
Shameful
With the exception of Australia, which saw a quarterly
decline of 6.3%, the surveyed Asia Pacific countries/regions all
posted gains in average peak speeds during the fourth quarter.
Indonesia enjoyed the largest gain with a tremendous 157% jump
followed by Vietnam with a 23% increase
Uhh we're going backwards?
Uhh we're going backwards?
On peak speeds, yes on others we improved but globally we still went backward.
Resume, during this agile and innovative approach under MTM-policy we only weakened our position in the global market and on peak speeds we went backward. How much billions did we spend on this MTM-policy in the last years?
No Karina. Drivers are national benefits and then roi.
Mtm does nothing of that, compared to fttp.
Cost is irrelevant if you don't have the returns to pay for it.
Definitely... Just some quick numbers to prove this:
MTM: $56b with 2% ROI = 50 years to pay back
FTTP: $86b* with 7% ROI = 14 years to pay back
*You know the "It will cost $30b more" rhetoric by Mal "the mess" Turnbull
if the ABCC legislation does pass, could it have a knock-on effect on NBN construction timelines if the unions get agitated?
doubt there are any unionists working in contracting co's...they wouldn't work for the measly wages they get nor the conditions they get.
Laurie Patton ?@LJPatton
@karinakeisler @WAtoday @NBN_Australia @adam_turner @internetAUS Why FttN not FttDP/FttP in HFC 'holes'? #FibreToTheFuture
karina keisler
karina keisler � ?@karinakeisler
@LJPatton @internetAUS Simple. You know we are tech agnostic. Drivers are time and cost.
Keisler's response demonstrates definitively that she has no idea what NBN Co is delivering or should be. The trees have got in the way and the product/service for consumers is not relevant � just deliver something/anything cheap asap � doesn't matter what it is...widgets will do. The KPIs will show "I have delivered..." that's success!!
On peak speeds, yes on others we improved but globally we still went backward.
It always remains very relevant to consider our position in relation to AP region, given that they will continue to increase and become main competitors over our service industry. And we're still struggling there, with Malaysia now overtaking Australia in average peak speeds
and yeah we've pretty much either stayed stagnate for a year or dropped.
temporary I'd suggest as FTTP build would be boosting figures but once stopped ....down we go rapidly
Shameful
Yep....meanwhile in Australia 25mps will be fine...lol !!!!!!!!
http://www.zdnet.com/article
Turnbull has his head so far up his backside if he believes no one is deploying, using, needs, or wants fibre.
HELP!!
I have been trying to add my name to the change.org petition but can't log on.
Changed email address when I went to Fibre. I get old email address when I go to put my name to petition.
When I try to rejoin I get my email address already exists � no-one would have the same as me, and when I try to login in on new address it won't accept password.
Forgot password function won't access my new email address and every help item in Change.org requires me to login, which I can't do (never ending circle...)
....and as is the modern way there is no direct contact number or anything else ...that I can find at least....
These latest stats released today (Communications Day 23 March 2016) clearly shows we going downhill at a great rate of knots:
The latest Akamai �State of the Internet� quarterly report again has Australia leading
the world in mobile broadband connection speeds and penetration. However, the
country�s fixed broadband progress is now falling behind many global markets.
For the fourth quarter of 2015, Australia continued its previous status as the world�s
fastest mobile market on Akamai�s numbers, recording the highest average peak mobile
For the fourth quarter of 2015, Australia�s position dropped across every category
reported by Akamai for fixed broadband, including a �significant� drop for average
peak connection speeds (39.3Mbps) to 60th position (out of 115 qualified countries),
from 46th spot the previous quarter.
And despite healthy year-on-year growth of 25% and 27% for connections above
10Mbps and 15Mbps, Australia�s position actually fell two and five places globally to
47th and 44th spots respectively with adoption rates of 20% and 8.2%. For 4Mbps
adoption, Australia registered a 73% penetration rate, falling 4 places to 56th spot globally.
New Zealand performed slightly better, but only just. The country rose a spot for average
connection speeds (9.3Mbps) to 41st place, but fell across all other categories.
Even when it registered an 130% year-on-year increase for adoption of services above
15Mbps to 11%, New Zealand fell two places globally to 39th place. For the quarter,
87% of New Zealand connections were above 4Mbps (32nd place down from 25th),
while 26% were above 10Mbps (42nd down from 40th).
WORLD: Globally, average connection speed for the quarter increased 23% year-onyear
to 5.6Mbps while average peak connection speed grew 21% year on year to
32.5Mbps. South Korea led average connection speeds at 26.7Mbps, while Singapore
registered the fastest average peak connection speed of 135.7Mbps.
Of the top ten countries in the average peak connection ranking, 6th place Indonesia
was a stand out, posting a 495% year-on-year surge in speed to 79.8Mbps, just above
Mongolia in 7th position at 78.9Mbps.
I cans keep my job?
No, due to the fact that senior management does not understand the difference between "cost-effective" and "as cheap as possible".
If Labor pulls off the impossible and wins the 2016 election, NBN says it�s ready to switch back to fibre to the premises.
Well, assuming that NBN Co is non political, Josh has a rather odd view on the election 2016. To me there is nothing to indicate "that Labour has to pull of the impossible". Simply winning some marginal LNP seats will do.
Apparently, in that article where Bill Morrow has said how no-one actually wanted Google Fiber, that the NBN "...was built to make money, not as a public service".
...and cue the NBN fire sale announcement post-election.
Following the election of the Abbott-Turnbull government in 2013, NBN was tasked with implementing then-communications minister Malcolm Turnbull�s NBN policy of a �multi-technology mix�. The company was told to let existing contracts to build fibre-to-the-premises run to their end dates, and begin drawing up plans to instead choose technologies that could be rolled out more cheaply.
� Bold my emphasis
The bolded part is a complete lie. Had the existing contract signed by SAPN in July 2013 been allowed to run to it's end date (2016 � with an option to extend for two years), then everyone in Sth Aust on the old 1/3yr rollout plan would have had FTTP up and running by the end of this year.
The lies know no bounds....
MTM: $56b with 2% ROI = 50 years to pay back
FTTP: $86b* with 7% ROI = 14 years to pay back
When you put it like that....!
Josh (h?)as a rather odd view on the election 2016.
The last line says, "*Josh Taylor travelled to Brisbane as a guest of NBN.
Hmmm. 'Nuff said'?
The company was told to let existing contracts to build fibre-to-the-premises run to their end dates,
And that didnt happen... They were terminated
And that didnt happen... They were terminated
Exactly. Blatant lies. Who provided that quote to Crickey? Was it Mr Morrow? If so, I am sure he testified something contrary to the Senate about the existing contracts a while ago. (In which case he has either mislead the Senate, or he has lied to the reporter at Crickey).
Exactly. Blatant lies. Who provided that quote to Crickey? Was it Mr Morrow? I
Yes.. But i dont have Crikey acc, so maybe someone could point that out?
Apparently Lord Light bulb has described the Brussels terrorists as being agile and innovative on ABCNews24
Hi Frank,
I could not believe what I was hearing to at the end of that interview this morning. This is what he said, as reported by SMH.
"We are in a battle with these terrorists and we will defeat them," Mr Turnbull said. "Our enemies, these terrorists, are very, very agile. We have to be as agile as them, we have to respond quickly and innovatively to the threats as they emerge."
Johnny
Better setup some internet blocking filters to combat these terrorists then hey Turnbull
derp
The bolded part is a complete lie. Had the existing contract signed by SAPN in July 2013 been allowed to run to it's end date (2016 � with an option to extend for two years), then everyone in Sth Aust on the old 1/3yr rollout plan would have had FTTP up and running by the end of this year
The lies know no bounds...
you should pass that back to Crikey
For 4Mbps adoption, Australia registered a 73% penetration rate
87% of New Zealand connections were above 4Mbps
Didn't Australia start first on FTTP 100/40 capability?
Are you all aware that there was a recent change made to the NBN sight sights mapping so the now all you can get is a yes or a no on a specific address and there is no information shown on any areas (Australia ALL) that are in progress ,done or in planning stages. Test it check out a few addresses and see. Talk about hiding their lack of progress and being open in their information displayed.
Johnny
Thanks for posting the exact statement. Missed it myself but was told by others.
Hmmm. 'Nuff said'?
More than enough. Tours seem to be trending nowadays, but perhaps NBN Co should have taken the tech-journalists with them to the US. Wouldn't have mind to stipulate the difference in reporting between non-OZ-media and OZ-media. Would be fun.
I like continuity with change to make it worse (like the MTM-policy). /s
[Edit: sarcasm tag]
Swift1 Only By Fibre writes...
there is no information shown on any areas
Yup that is their dodgy linking on their $60k web page
Clicking can I get the NBN doesn't bring up the coloured blob maps anymore because to be honest it's a piece of shi..
anyway you have to dive deep into the web page and find it here -
http://www.nbnco.com.au/deve
http://www.nbnco.com.au/deve
In support of the "continuity with change" slogan the website has been changed.
anyway you have to dive deep into the web page and find it here -
The force was more with continuity than change and consequently it will be now removed in a innovative and agile manner by Karina. :P
Goddamit I shouldn't have linked it :(
They probably forgot it was there
The force was more with continuity than change and consequently it will be now removed in a innovative and agile manner by Karina. :P
Tell you nothing..
Clicking can I get the NBN doesn't bring up the coloured blob maps anymore because to be honest it's a piece of shi..
My own opinion here is that NBN[tm] are being intentionally misleading with respect to the mapping information they provide to the public and here one but has to think of the United States where access to consumer information as to what sort of Broadband exists together with the difference between what the advertised speed and the actual is provided in different geographical regions, together with a lot of other information: that the public may want to use with respect to what is and isn't available to them!
Eg:- http://www.broadbandmap.gov/technology
Frankly, what I'm seeing with turnbull and co's maps: is an intentional decision to deceive the public, into thinking that they are actually getting the same sort of service whilst hiding which technology is actually available to them.
I think the term policy in the subject title should be changed to shambles.
Or Con
Or fraudband
Or rubbish
Or Sabotage
It isn't a policy it is a train wreck.
It isn't a policy it is a train wreck.
go to the 5th minute in this video for a demonstration of MTM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioyl85MgFEA
if you have a look at earlier parts you can see the Liberal party room sitting around
oh and if you watch you can see a quick and nimble Malcolm jumping from a 90 mile an hour train wreck
Frankly, what I'm seeing with turnbull and co's maps: is an intentional decision to deceive the public, into thinking that they are actually getting the same sort of service whilst hiding which technology is actually available to them.
been he case since day one for Turnbull � they are wanting everyone to think FTTP and FTTN are one and the same in capability, reliability and upgradeability. As long as you can log on to teh internet it doesn't matter. Conflate, confuse, three thimble tricks ...you name it it is going on.... with no shame at all
if you have a look at earlier parts you can see the Liberal party room sitting around
The whole thing is done at a tech level that LNP MP's are comfortable with, like nodelotto.
And that didnt happen... They were terminated
Werribee South on the old contracts was going to get fibre within 3 years, I can definitely tell you they terminated them despite being contracts. So Labor can do the same as far as im concerned
Werribee South on the old contracts was going to get fibre within 3 years, I can definitely tell you they terminated them despite being contracts. So Labor can do the same as far as im concerned
I agree totally on that + the design work for Fibre must already be on file for a fast start.
Swift1 Only By Fibre writes...
I agree totally on that + the design work for Fibre must already be on file for a fast start.
Despite saying otherwise I do think Labor has a plan if they do win the election, I think they are hiding this fact from the Coalition and just going to spring it on them like the coalition "forgot" to mention that we are changing plans regardless of evidence. For once I will be glad if they play dirty to get Australia what it should have had in the first place before the clowns took over.
Also notice the latest, they won't be caught out if we do switch back to a full fibre. They know they've already lost and are trying to minimize fallout.
Swift1 Only By Fibre writes...
I agree totally on that + the design work for Fibre must already be on file for a fast start.
unless they have been "purged" much like Stalin did to people from time to time, even allies and I am not talking of the Gulags, people might make a comeback from them
Apparently Lord Lightbulb has described the Brussels terrorists as being agile and innovative on ABCNews24. Is this a gaff?
After all that he did to the NBN and NBN Co, coupled with what he is doing now with his very own MTM and his very own nbn�, the relevant gaff would seem to be one that we'll be enduring the national cost of for a very long time to come.
Oh well nothing new to report then...
Apparently Lord Lightbulb has described the Brussels terrorists as being agile and innovative
So sad that everything has to be politicised. We have seen the disaster that can follow this level of self interest with NBN. So counter productive.
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
NBN still grappling with inaccurate housing data.
Morrow�s comments referred to the accuracy of both Telstra�s network data and the national housing database that draws on Australian Bureau of Statistics� (ABS) information known as G-NAF � the geocoded national address file.
Quigley knew this and that is why they had to physically check every address before rolling out fttp.
Seems like Morrie relied too heavily on data bases and tried to cut costs.
Mind you, I used to create maps for our local regional city, and was amazed at how accurate Google maps was.
Morrow last week claimed the uncertainty about the data accounted for the potential $15 billion variance in its peak construction budget target and the company�s inability to accurately predict its broadband technology mix for the nation.
Excuses, excuses..
Oh and fttdp?
Ahead of the trial, Morrow said up to 300,000 premises could be eligible for the micro-node device.
"Up to" "could be eligible"
Weasel words
Oh and fttdp?
Ahead of the trial, Morrow said up to 300,000 premises could be eligible for the micro-node device.
"Up to" "could be eligible"
Weasel words
which also means that up to 300,000 premises in FTTN areas will not be able to get 25/5 on the copper, let alone the 50/20 tier that was also part of the promise of MTM
What's a good link to the latest Akamai/world speed rankings? Have we been overtaken by Vanuatu yet?
The previous one was at http://www.internetsociety.org
Fraud. Fraud. Fraudband.
been he case since day one for Turnbull � they are wanting everyone to think FTTP and FTTN are one and the same in capability, reliability and upgradeability. As long as you can log on to teh internet it doesn't matter. Conflate, confuse, three thimble tricks ...you name it it is going on.... with no shame at all
This might work with the older generations (look at them buying junk at DSE thinking they got a bargain).
But the ones that grew up with internet since the 1990s and been playing games will know which service is superior. "Latency, Uploads, Congestion" all play into the picture of whether a service is good or not.
The CVC issues are coming too light, I hope that those on FTTN are educated on why exactly they are experiencing congestion.
There are so many problems with MTM and NBN it ought to get more coverage from the media.
I'm fed up, if someone is making a site to expose all these problems. I'd help out drawing some animations and articulating these issues to the general public.
Mostly to educate them on:
- Why our internet is what it is today (history behind Telstra)
- What the original NBN vision was
- The progress of Labors NBN and where the time went (standing up NBN as a telco)
- What the current MTM is
- Why FTTN is bad and not scalable, why does CVC play a big part in the quality of your service
- What are the main issues of Asymmetrical services and why UPLOAD speeds are needed
- Why we need FTTP and the future applications that will harness this unlimited capacity
- Why MTM is a scam and LNP can't be trusted
I just got a surface pro and started to draw on it. I'm hoping to draw simple animations and references to articles and voice over to produce videos to upload to Youtube.
You reckon we can get some message going? Hopefully to revive the original FTTP plan. Or at least give homes a chance to get FTTP if it allows reasonable on-demand costs.
"Up to" "could be eligible"
Weasel words
impossible to cost, and therefore no accountability can be expected nor applied....? Just spend the money Bill...we will all be well and truelly gone by the time anyone finds out . What a shame...
Morrow last week claimed the uncertainty about the data accounted for the potential $15 billion variance in its peak construction budget
But didn't they just recently tell us how "good" the Telstra records were? Now they're saying they (and the housing records) are so bad they account for the potential $15B blowout.....
Is there anything this management can make their minds up about....
Ahead of the trial, Morrow said up to 300,000 premises could be eligible for the micro-node device.
Using words like that may as well just say up to 8 million (or however many are left) premises could be eligible for FTTP o.O
Sure we know they arn't getting it but technically they "could" be "eligible" for it.
I hope that those on FTTN are educated on why exactly they are experiencing congestion.
Wouldn't have a clue and don't care...just as long as it works. There's a certain line of thought ingrained that you get what you are given and be happy with that. If there is a bit of 'sugar' added it's fine...
That is what LNP are playing on and certainly they have no intent to educate the populous.
There are so many problems with MTM and NBN it ought to get more coverage from the media.
Vested interest and at the fore is proposed media law changes (don't upset the apple cart) and no-one wants to invest , not right now anyway, they just want revenue any way they can get it.
Mostly to educate them on
add..... to be aware that they will be paying much the same for FTTN as they would FTTP but get so much less service, reliability and upgradability. Hip Pocket nerve is paramount in today's thinking.
I have posted previously iinet offer for up to 25Mb/s 1000Gb data for $79.99 where I am paying with them 100Mb/s FTTP 500Gb data for $10 more. Which would you prefer? knowing 10Gb/s is around the corner and the alternative on MTM will never give that, and get that consistently.
NB Turnbull maybe hasn't lied, NBN FTTP costs more....but you get so much more for your dollar....
Is there anything this management can make their minds up about....
They have already , apparently by these sorts of statements, decided they can't deliver FTTN/MTM.... there's a message there for Turnbull....
They have already , apparently by these sorts of statements, decided they can't deliver FTTN/MTM.... there's a message there for Turnbull....
Until next week when he comes out and says how much cheaper and quicker they are deploying FTTN again o.O
"Up to" "could be eligible"
If someone from NBNCo is reading this, I am prepared to pay you up to $1M for a FTTH connection when you rollout my area later this year.
Until next week when he comes out and says how much cheaper and quicker they are deploying FTTN again
MTM........The schizo network.
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
NBN still grappling with inaccurate housing data.
Morrow�s comments referred to the accuracy of both Telstra�s network data and the national housing database that draws on Australian Bureau of Statistics� (ABS) information known as G-NAF � the geocoded national address file.
so what has Bill done about it?
Mike Quigley admitted the data was not perfect, I think I recall he said it was about 85 to 90% correct and this info would have been on file at nbn headquarters.
So after being in the hot seat for 2 and a bit years, has he done anything about this data?
Bet your sweet bippy he hasn't
They didn't even get access to Telstra's copper database, and let's not ask about the fault records, when they "bought" the copper, they have to pay "commercial rates" to access it.
re mapping.
I notice now that they have moved their mapping engine to CARTODB so all those people who had been given the google api access keys would I guess now find large holes in any data mined
Looks they might be ramping down compared to previous weeks, maybe getting ready to do FTTdp instead?
This weekly report by nbn of network rollout progress reflects the Government�s requirements for greater transparency as set out in the Statement of Expectations to nbn. This shows rollout progress as of last Thursday 17 March 2016.
A total of 14,980 additional lots/premises were passed/covered by the network during the week, of which 12,362 were in Brownfield and 2,645 were in Greenfield areas. Fixedwireless coverage decreased by 27 premises due to premise count reviews. During the week an additional 14,108 premises had services activated on the network, including 12,478 on fixed line services and 1,630 using satellite and fixed wireless technologies.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
column NBN chief executive Bill Morrow is wrong.
Liking this article already :)
For those among us who think they are very smart. :)
How likely is it, statistically, that when you activate services and you calculate these services between a starting and end date that exactly 1/3 of the services are copper and 2/3 are fibre. I am talking exactly here, so 33.333333333333333.
Time to get Benford's Law and ACL out of the cupboard.
How likely is it, statistically, that when you activate services and you calculate these services between a starting and end date that exactly1/3 of the services are copper and 2/3 are fibre. I am talking exactly here, so 33.333333333333333.
well in the real world not very likely
but you know what they say about statistics....
well in the real world not very likely
It is more weird. The start and end date were set by NBN Co by the query date for the historical spreadsheets. I picked the state which is QLD. So totally we got four random parameters for the sample set: start date, end date, state and activations.
Now that works exactly out to a mix of 1/3 and 2/3.
fudging the numbers....
Processing the complete sample set now, this will take a while .... will report back.
Edit 1:
Ran the other States, no abnormalities.
Edit 2:
After further testing it appears to be an issue with the MYSQL database which contains the imported XML-files from NBN Co. Performed a restore, imported again the last XML-files and no abnormalities now. As it turns out there was a brief power cut in the morning (the enjoyments of living rural) which caused the import to be interrupted.
so what has Bill done about it?
Mike Quigley admitted the data was not perfect, I think I recall he said it was about 85 to 90% correct and this info would have been on file at nbn headquarters.
So after being in the hot seat for 2 and a bit years, has he done anything about this data?
PSMA having just released the data publicly confirms for me that the statements of Mike Quigley were 100% correct. There is a lot of addresses that need verification or cross checking, with a large number of isolated address points, houses with only x1 source or just missing. I don't blame them, they're pulling sources from councils, state govs etc. but the fact is still there. So no surprising the problem still exists today, and should actually be credited back to Quigley and NBN by seeking to address it in 2012.
Sources for reference when NBN was blamed for the issue
- http://www.itnews.com.au/news
- http://www.itnews.com.au/news
- http://www.afr.com/business/t
They didn't even get access to Telstra's copper database, and let's not ask about the fault records, when they "bought" the copper, they have to pay "commercial rates" to access it.
And how many times did we call this out, and refer to it in the Senate etc? Wilful neglect on behalf of NBN's exec team by buying a product blind, without any alternatives
I notice now that they have moved their mapping engine to CARTODB so all those people who had been given the google api access keys would I guess now find large holes in any data mined
TransparencyTM
Edit: I'll also add on the PSMA. You may have noticed that I haven't published more NBN maps which I said I would. That's because of PSMA quality and structure, and just not motivated to deal with it :)
Edit 2: Very detailed overview of challenges with PSMA � http://www.zdnet.com/article/
yup I'm betting they relied upon obsolete data to form that thyne opinion..
they had to the the address and the lot numbers because now days there is alot more buildings per square meter than there 3-15 years ago especially with the lot of sub division there is today and multiple dwellings on the same square footage where a house once stood..
kinda makes you laugh considering the amount FTTN/DP supposedly being earmarked for deployment..
as for the earl of wentworth and the political power that be.. god know's what's going happen though I can see alot of ministerial reforms to come form a royal commission if or when it happens..
https://delimiter.com.au/20
column NBN chief executive Bill Morrow is wrong.
Paywall.,
Bummer Renai.. Did you have to do that ? This should be made public.
Bummer Renai.. Did you have to do that ? This should be made public.
Indeed, I already paid my monthly spill for the internet I am not shelling out on paywall dirt.
Writing an analysis of FTTN and FTTP (though not skinny fibre at this stage).
Currently 11 pages... Aiming for 3-5,000 words.
Comments welcome.
Comments welcome.
You'll probable want to add more sources/references to figures in the tables so people don't think you're getting figures plucked out of skinny air. :)
skinny fibre
Speaking of which, any idea what it's proper name is or who is developing it?
go and contact telstra and ask them the cost of vdsl install
because this is what you implement within the 1km from the node...
actual cost without supplied modem $5,000..
realize this you are talking about projection not actual cost..
on mass rollout of fttp/h has been fudged to the point nothing listed within current documents shouldn't be believed because most of rollout cost is a narrow narrow margin..
aka: test site vs mass rollout.. which is 2 different figures which really aren't tabled within current documents..
at present it cost's more to rollour to a minor selection of the public because it is a testing site install with no more than 100-350 premises covered vs the whole exchange foot print..
at a minor roll out expect to upto 2.500-3,000 per ftth install because it is new, however i would expect cost's to drop between $500-1,250 on a mass deployment..
Mike Quigley admitted the data was not perfect, I think I recall he said it was about 85 to 90% correct
This where NBN Co had to dig up lawns and verges thanks to poor or no Telstra data on cable location � NBN Co's fault of course...
not start nbnmk 1 documents it might clear up the mess back when it was Howard's 1st term in office...... back in the 1990's
the fudged the vertigan report
Looks they might be ramping down compared to previous weeks
Maybe not able to claim prebuilt/trial parts of network ....?
fudging the numbers....
Boss to Manger in charge � "how many services we done mate....?
Answer : about a third...? under breathe (hope , hope he doesn't find out we did next to none..pick it up next period.....)
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
$73 per metre, or $60 per metre just for the trench doesn't seem all that expensive for a new area. If developed areas with a copper network in good condition shouldn't have too many issues pulling skinny fibre through pipes, or worst case, removing copper first. Saving time should make it a lot cheaper.
Speaking of which, any idea what it's proper name is or who is developing it?
the one on display was made by Corning, they also have make some of teh combimed splitter and multiports.
TE also make some of teh combined splitter and multiports (I think)
details were in the leaked trial document of the 2 trial areas
from same site: ex Tasmania Premier
http://www.cio.com.au/blog/
""Eminent broadband leader, Rod Tucker, argues Vertigan's �willingness to pay� survey methodology, on which he bases many of his conclusions, is deeply flawed. If a similar survey approach had been taken to Australian businesses just 20 years ago, would any have predicted the emergence of disruptive online technologies like search, a proliferation of mobile devices and the imminent death of newsprint and broadcast? No. So how can Australian businesses understand what they will be willing to pay for 20 years from now?
The Vertigan report represents a tragic, visionless view of Australia where the digital revolution that is changing everything about the way the world creates wealth and solves problems is irrelevant.""
exactly 1/3 of the services are copper and 2/3 are fibre. I am talking exactly here, so 33.333333333333333.
With the disclaimer following, it sounds like considerably more than odds of a million to one, which suggests two possibilities:
The stars, and the service connections, aligned exactly on a 1/3 to 2/3 split; or
Somebody made a quick guess.
For those among us who think they are very smart. :)
That lets me out � I live in a country that has aborted a nation-building, farsighted comms network, and replaced it, for the same total cost, with a ragbag collection of late 20th century tech that will be obsolete by the time it is (eventually) built.
the one on display was made by Corning, they also have make some of teh combimed splitter and multiports.
It might be this one.
https://www.corning.com/au/e
Only a guess though. Mr Conroy should've asked them what they called it. :P
just came across this video on my facebook feed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWf63PIrZaE
its crazy how accurate it is.
upload date: 2014...
So... my sister got her FTTP today... She kills technology :'(
FTTN is available but 38mbit is not enough, and it's no ore reliable.... so I'll stick with my cheaper adsl for a bit longer.
My brother in law is on the phone, whinging about having to move cables and his fridge for where it's set up... and figure out how to hook the phone back up... all I can say is no sympathy, it's like complaining about mcdonalds to a starving man
My brother in law is on the phone, whinging about having to move cables and his fridge for where it's set up... and figure out how to hook the phone back up... all I can say is no sympathy, it's like complaining about mcdonalds to a starving man
I know that feeling. I had a coworker get FTTP and then complain about every little thing possible including having a plant moved.
Meantime i'm just wanting to tell them to shut up and appreciate what they got.
This might work with the older generations (look at them buying junk at DSE thinking they got a bargain).
But the ones that grew up with internet since the 1990s and been playing games will know which service is superior. "Latency, Uploads, Congestion" all play into the picture of whether a service is good or not.
Do you have any understanding of how silly this reads?
Many of us "older generation" have experienced the internet since the 1990s, and some of us have even got past the point of believing that "playing games" is a (excuse me) grown-up indicator of what our needs are from the internet.
Posts like this � while I am sure not your intended result � play right into the hands of the "internet is only for games and porn downloaders" trolls on this forum.
Conflating purchasing from DSE just confirms my point.
The bolded part is a complete lie.
I think Josh must be suffering from a conflict of interest.
http://www.crikey.c
Lets look at some of the other examples of drivel in the article, from both parties.
The company will launch about 18,000 services in Redcliffe, Queensland, in June, 21 months after the Coalition came to government. At the time of the election Turnbull said he believed HFC could be upgraded quickly.
My bold, WTF?? The published date is 23/03/16, the election was 07/09/13. Try 33 months FFS.
What I am unsure about is will this trigger the "you used it, you bought it" clause (or as that already been tripped by the trials)? The current corporate plan is for ~4 million HFC premises, yet recent testimony suggests ~1.9 million LiCs in the HFC footprint are required. With roughly half of the HFC footprint requiring a LiC how does the purported $1100 capex figure withstand rational scrutiny?
The report also said:
Morrow downplayed issues with the cable networks, saying NBN left cable to last in order to get the other technologies working.
�We had a priority on getting the current FttP that was in the pipe, running and perfecting that process because that�s something that was immediate.�
Read that bold bit again. If you buy that, would you like to buy a bridge?
"The next priority was getting FttN addressed. That was always seen as the first one we wanted to roll out. As we do see that quite positively, that has been receiving more attention within the company than HFC, and it is deliberate to put that second.�
Lets look at these statements. Morrow inherited a working process to roll out FttP. We can argue over how well it was working but that fact is that the current rollout plan for FttP caps out at ~20% in the current plan, including greenfields, down from 26% in the Strategic Review (it is not clear to me whether this figure includes greenfields or not).
What they didn't have was access to a HFC or copper network, while there was an implied commitment in the Strategic Review to utilise these technologies to rollout the nbn to the remaining ~75% of the fixed line foot print.
Does anyone really believe the primary goal of nbnTM post 2013 election was anything other than securing access to these essential assets?
The only technology currently delivering in terms of premises passed and premises connected is FttP.
It is astounding how these statements go unchallenged.
These questions need to be asked long and loud:
"What would the rollout rate be if nbnTM had simply got on with the job of rolling out fibre to 93% of Australia and driven the technological and productivity improvements suggested by the MT-LFN and Project Fox programs further, without the distractions of FTTN and HFC?"
"Given that the leaked MT-LFN document estimated that LNDN costs could potentially be reduced by as much as one half � does nbn have plans to implement further trials to challenge and explore these assumptions, and drive fibre deeper into the fixed line footprint?"
What I am unsure about is will this trigger the "you used it, you bought it" clause (or as that already been tripped by the trials)?
haven't all the HFC trials been on Optus infrastructure?
A suggestion for someone to follow this up, research this and put it out on twitter and send it to journalists.
One Lateline just now, Turnbull was being interviewed. At the end of the interview Turnbull got asked about his decision to not oppose the Clean Energy Finance Corporation. In defending that he repeated referred to the CEFC making a modest return. And how having a small return was good discipline, etc, etc. He repeatedly used modest.
Now, what's interesting is that his own hand picked stooges doing the dodgy cost benefit analysis on the NBN concluded that fibre will make a modest return. So its ok for the CEFC, but not for the NBN.
Turnbull needs to be taken to task on this.
Defaulty. Try to read the whole of the post. It is very much on topic. It is about Turnbull's hypocrisy in his treatment of a GBE (NBNco) versus his treatment of a different GBE. Please understand that in this world things are connected.
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