Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
If someone believes they need FTTH then they gotta fork out the Cheque book.
Cheque book is open. Who will take my money?
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
When people and come and go they would very likely prefer to go
Wireless, a lot easier than fixed line when changing addresses.
Yeah, as long as they don't actually want to use the internet much at all � for luddites or those with access to fixed line internet elsewhere, it can be fine.
FTTN will suffice the vast majority of user
According to Raoul...
If someone believes they need FTTH then they gotta fork out the Cheque book.
So you're still a fan of the Turnbull "move to get better broadband" suggestion, are you?
Ha this is why Turnbull doesn't want NBN to be spoken about on Q&A.
But after attempting to explain why the roll out wasn�t perfect and how he�d rather have slow internet now and a system that wasn�t perfect rather than nothing for five years, the panellists began to really fire up.
Noticing the tension both on the panel and in the audience the Q&A host then asked Labor MP Ed Husic what he thought about it all.
�We will have an ideas boom after we get through the buffering basically,� he said as the audience clapped.
According to Raoul...
Glad such people can make the ultimate decision on my behalf.
I don't have to think for myself.
Just spend a shite load of dosh every month for mundane internet access.
For the likes of Raoul and others can shove their FTTN where the sun has never shined.
Seems like reliable and fast internet access will give them an allergic reaction of some sort and that's why they are against it.
They must love pissing away money on lousy internet access.
No wonder our country is a freaking joke.
https://twitter.com/renailem
This made me laugh
This made me laugh
Yeah well Steve Baxter needs to get with the times. "Aint my first rodeo" His one of the guys who swallows lies hook line and sinker
If you can only get 30mbit on a 100mbit plan because of high CVC charges then why would you pay for 100mbit?
The ignorant would, and do, and then complain when they get sub-ADSL2 performance. What you're talking about has nothing to do with technology, it's all about NBN's pricing policy.
Honestly thought he had a brain.. Guess I was proven wrong
Yeah well Steve Baxter needs to get with the times.
I couldn't be bothered with twitter. Someone just tell him that innovation in the gaming industry needs better internet for a start. You cannot stream a game with ADSL. You need at a bare minimum 5 times the upload that ADSL offers. So Mr Sharktank, streaming a game = marketing it so ergo how do you market?
Clown.
This made me laugh
As for the the LNP's policy of providing HFC as part of their policy which imo is like selling "ice" to eskimo's given they already have it available through either Telstra or Optus!
And given the comments provided by NBN in support of the MTM model that the public were happy with what was being provided? which frankly is a nonsense!
Just what IS the "customer" perspective between for example HFC and FTTH.
Well lets look at that perspective in America where Verizon provide their FTTH network and compare it against EoL (End of Life HFC)
https://www.youtube.com/watc
Obviously the LNP don't want to face the reality assoicated with the litany of ongoing issues that EoL has and will continue the plague the obsolete technology as provided here!
and
The ignorant would, and do, and then complain when they get sub-ADSL2 performance. What you're talking about has nothing to do with technology, it's all about NBN's pricing policy.
Uh no. Its about giving world class internet to everyone and give them a choice on their plans, actually DELIVER said speeds without problems and keeping up with the rest of the world. Not giving people the choice to pay for 100Mbps so they can take their money and not give what people pay for. If I pay for 100Mbps I expect 100 Mbps and not "Up To" which a lot of ISPS don't say when you talk to them unless you ask the right questions. I also would expect to have no drop outs caused by bloody congestion because they didn't expect the amount of people they are forcing to transfer to be so high!
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Wireless, a lot easier than fixed line when changing addresses
You're not thinking it through...
1. The average download amount in Oz back in 2013-2014 was 58GB/month...and it is increasing by 33% or more per year. What is the average cap on mobile downloads?
2. With FTTP, once they become ubiquitous, it becomes just a plug and play to change addresses. RSPs can turn on internet and phone within a few minutes... I agree that its not there yet, but it will be very soon as that is a key feature of the design.
FTTN will suffice the vast majority of users, currentlymajority of users are on 25MB or below
I don't think you understand the difference between peak hypothetical and average speeds...in addition, 20% of the users (according to Telstra) are on phone-only, and that is listed as 12/1. This skews the access numbers significantly making the average connection speed much greater than 25Mbps.
Hopefully Q & A will finally take notice of the amount of interest that was demonstrated at the end of the show to host a show just on the NBN. There is plenty of scope to bring in some decent panellists (Paul Budde, Mark Gregory et. al.) and get the real facts out about the NBN. Its the biggest infrastructure project Australia has seen with tens of billions of dollars at stake. Q & A have allocated a lot of time to a lot less important topics.
Hmmm � I'm not sure T.Jones et al could be that Innovative!
It would require at least a double length session and at least a Concert Hall to accommodate the crowd wanting to vent.
NBN policy = MTM policy
That is a complete lie.
Seconded. The current government tried so hard to separate themselves from the original NBNco. Instead of NBNco its NBN. And every time they use NBN they usually mention MTM.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
FTTN will suffice the vast majority of users, currentlymajority of users are on 25MB or below.
Which is the default speed which RSPs do not disclose very clearly to consumers when ordering. Also download speeds are one issue but upload speeds are a bigger issue, 5 Mbps isn't enough for online cloud applications and backups. Good luck uploading your cad files.
People have been willing to pay for FTTP but NBN Co keeps moving the goal posts to make it as impossible to get.
Also if on the FTTN, good luck getting the speed you want. No one knows what their line is capable of, and you will have a few who can't get speeds any greater than 25 Mbps (even if they're willing to pay more).
Yeah well Steve Baxter
So called. #Entrepreneur, #investor, tech #startup, mentor
And has no clue what the real NBN can actually do.
People have been willing to pay for FTTP but NBN Co keeps moving the goal posts to make it as impossible to get.
Especially when they say "hey its $3000 just to see if its viable and then oh we need another 5000 to do it IF your eligible for it." If not its "Oh i'm sorry your not eligible, we will just be keeping your money for ourselves to use by continuing to lie to the public"
Originally we were sold the house and land package with a "Fibre Connection" and I still have the brochures stating this from the builder.
This should probably have its own thread.
I am drafting a letter to Peter Dutton / NBN, Turnbull and Fifield.
Forget every single one of those clowns, and take the brochure you mentioned to a (good) solicitor. Sue the builder/developer.
take the brochure you mentioned to a (good) solicitor.
Incorrect representations before a Contractual Agreement was signed?
You wouldn't have bought the block if you wouldn't get fibre, right?
Given v CV Holland Holdings Pty Ltd (1977) 15 ALR 439 � A representation is false if it is not correct, even if it is not false to the knowledge of the person making it. The intention to mislead is irrelevant to the fact that it has mislead the buyer and causes damage.
Disclaimer, no legal advice get your own lawyer. ACCC knows all about that one. Oh wait, they don't.
This should probably have its own thread.
Will do. We'll see how long till it's deleted.
Forget every single one of those clowns, and take the brochure you mentioned to a (good) solicitor. Sue the builder/developer.
I agree but as there is an election soon you never know who might actually listen. I'll wait till the house is finished before pursuing the builder/developer (same company).
Incorrect representations before a Contractual Agreement was signed?
Sure seems to be a clear case.
I agree but as there is an election soon you never know who might actually listen.
The stone-heads you mentioned will only throw the builder under the bus. They've got all their ducks lined up.
I'll wait till the house is finished before pursuing the builder/developer (same company).
Don't walk � run to the best solicitor you can find. Leaving it too long will provide the appearance you find the situation acceptable.
Incorrect representations before a Contractual Agreement was signed?
You wouldn't have bought the block if you wouldn't get fibre, right?
I actually wouldn't have. We searched everywhere and this one actually said it was part of the deal. I run a small business from home where I upload on average 200GB per month and it was a requirement.
Here is a screenshot from the brochure minus any identifying information.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uc
Here is a screenshot from the brochure minus any identifying information.
That is completely wrong in formulation and yes I can understand that you are are mislead. Lawyer in my view, buying a block of land/house is not a small thing, it is the biggest decision in your life so there should not be doubt on what you buy.
It is not that you didn't had an alternative with fibre in the Brisbane area. Both Brownfields and Greenfields.
But it also makes that talent from overseas, stays overseas and does not consider Australia as innovative and agile enough to jump ship
Probably explains why Morrow is here in Aus � can't make it anywhere else...
Finally they cover the NBN on Q+A, and the token Liberal (Wyatt Roy) looked stupid.
And the scientist on the panel basically said that there is simply no alternative but fibre.
Roy repeatedly stated the ideological position of Private Industry being the only one that can do it � it is all about ideology, from politicians...
Yep! Almost fell off my seat when someone from the audience asked a direct nbn question that could not be ignored
That's at least two strikes on Jones...will Q&A go through another navel gazing exercise and be forced to change its programming again...ie get further neutered?
The man is agile and innovative by implementing an old technology faster in his electorate.
Excellent point Frank � the whole mindset of LNP in all portfolios, as demonstrated so extensively with NBN � perceptions are all that count...
No competition any more and that is because he missed the term "quality" in the bold part.
Yep � no differentiaition until you use their customer service facilities.well maybe but generally you are locked in and it costs you to get out and try another.
I can't say any ISP/RSP competes when you say � I can pay $x with can you beat that?
t really annoys me that people try to be Politically Correct and not call a spade a spade and say "the issue is caused by both sides" or some such. Thats absolute rubbish!
Thankyou....
generally you are locked in and it costs you to get out and try another.
Be warned in that respect, some RSPs have a habit of advising you to take a lower speed just to see if the speed is "stable". There are two reasons why they do this.
The first reason is that they know that a network component is oversold and that the speed cannot be achieved even remotely. You know the cases 100/40Mbps ending up as 6/40Mbps at night.
The second reason is that they make it impossible to get out of the Contract if the speed is not up to scratch after you upgrade the speed, as you signed up from 24/12 months on a lower speed that is achievable. Simply downgrading the speed to your original speed removes the argument of your complaint.
So be smart, start on the speed you want, not on the speed they are prepared to give you. :)
Have the ABC finally got the political stick out of their arse?
Maybe it is a signal to Turnbull not to verbal guys like Tony Jones on Lateline the other night....penny drops....
The Nbn discussion, by far, drew the largest response on qanda.
Good marketing types in ABC should pick up on that...
Good marketing types in ABC should pick up on that...
Brick from the 14th floor will take care of agile marketing types ....
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
When people and come and go
Zealot I'm sure you posted you were going to be away for a couple of months....panic mode set in?.... Wyatt Roy poor performance on Q&A to NBN Q's . Reviving again and again same barely relevant issues is a sign of failure....
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
double post
is your FTTN that bad that the original post didn't go through quick enough? you have a few sympathisiers on this thread � wouldn't happen with FTTP though... I'd recommend you support it...
Ha this is why Turnbull doesn't want NBN to be spoken about on Q&A.
HUsic says it all � �We are going to go to an election based on a thing that not many people talk about, the ABCC, but not going to go to an election talking about the things people want to see done � the NBN.�
For those posters that claim Labor will not use NBN as an election issue � watch out... you out there Kingy or is it Zealots turn atm... facts speak louder than (presumed) words
But it all depends on ABCC and if it will be passed. Personally I think it will, mainly due to the number of senators who will keep their jobs if they pass it. The exact same senators who will lose their jobs after a dd.
May 11 is last day I think. ABCC won't get through IMO but then maybe I'm just wanting the earliest date to stop FTTN/MTM.
It should be noted the DD is not the critical part of all this, it is the joint house sitting that is obligatory once the new govt is in place. A questioner at today's Press Club put it forward in the numbers required 114 iirc in that sitting. His estimate was 80 in HoR (of 150) and 34 (of 76) in Senate. Even with a close election win they may not get the numbers to pass ABCC.
I reckon a couple of independents will do well in HoR and mess them around regardless of Senate vote changes which in DD have less effect. This would have been Greens main objective in Victoria particularly. Windsor is as good as in.
This would be good for FTTP as a hung parliament in HoR would keep them on their toes.
Then again is it all a (bully) bluff....?
Ok, NBN policy gurus....
Replying to myself here but I found this policy "Telecommunications infrastructure in new developments".
https://www.co
Section 3.3.2 Minimum service standards � states that "as a starting point, download data rates of 50 megabits per second..."
I certainly won't be getting that over ADSL.
Looks like mtm is in trouble. The msm are turning against it..
http://m.smh.com.au/comm
It's time to ditch the copper-based internet network and go with fibre or we will be left behind.
the fact that the copper-based services will be superseded and no longer fit-for-purpose in 10 to 15 years, and you just have to wonder why we are still heading down such an inferior pathway.
We need to stop arguing about the relative costs of fibre verses copper. All we are talking about now is when we spend the money because we will eventually have to replace the copper wire.
We are supposed to become an innovation nation, but we are already significantly constrained without competitive broadband.
Very difficult to do, because the nbn books are closed from scrutiny
What specifically is unknown? I would have thought some sort of analysis could be done based on available info and some realistic assumptions. Labor need some sound bites to combat the cheaper, sooner etc. of LNP. Even though these kind of sound bites are infuriating for those who know they are rubbish, they sadly do work on the masses.
states that "as a starting point, download data rates of 50 megabits per second..."
Well NBNCo's wholesale FTTN document only guarantees 25Mbps and that is after the co-existence period of 18 months � during that time only 12 Mbps is guaranteed
FTTN is clearly not fit for purpose!
I would have thought some sort of analysis could be done based on available info
What available information?
NBN policy = MTM policy
Wrong.
NBN policy was for a world-class and almost infinitely upscalable FTTP connection for 93% of endusers.
MTM policy is for a miserable grab-bag of late 20th century tech that'll be obsolete before they finish it.
Here's the killer punch you won't have on your political prompt sheet:
We could have seen the NBN rolled out for no greater cost, over time, than we'll finish up paying for the odds-and-sods MTM. And there's another major difference between them � MTM will have nothing like the revenue recoupment ability that NBN, and only NBN, would have provided.
What available information?
I don't claim to be an expert here, just an interested person who wants a better broadband network :)
We at least know the cost per premises of the different options. I seen this presented in Senate Estimates, including the cost when so called "skinny" fibre is used.
Anyway, it's going to be a long election campaign.
Nah, breeze, in a few weeks everybody in Australia knows what the NBN is really about and who they have to blame.
I'm sure that in 24 hours whirlpoolians will go back to blaming the ABC for people's lack of interest in the NBN.
Wrong mate, the ABC was self inflicted censorship. They will report on it from now on, there is no reason to blame the ABC anymore. Even the MSN is joining the party ....
As for the ABCC, that will be more dominant in the election.
Sadly politicians don't decide what is important to the voters. It is the voters who will decide what is important to them and the train wreck that this government is, will make that enough people will cast their vote in a protest manner.
I would rate defence and foreign policy as more important than the NBN.
Fair enough, we don't mind if you are not here. We like different views but not without the arguments.
We at least know the cost per premises of the different options. I
According to their assumptions. We really don't know for sure.
Some opex has been used in their caluations and savings such as project fox, have been buried into non existence.
Costings for nz are at odds for our nbn
We at least know the cost per premises of the different options
Only to the extent of total cost but not what comprises those costs in detail and it is apparent that much more is thrown in by NBN Co to FTTP costs than FTTN/MTM and assumptions are made that are not explained so it is an exercise of trust � with good reason not to. We only get given what they consider we need to know that suits them to justify FTTN/MTM.
It's up to fibre advocates to push their message.
No, it is up to Australians to get the most cost effective implementation. Note, not the cheapest and fastest.
Either complain or take advantage of the situation.
Correct to quote a famous actor: "Problems are only problems until you move them out of your way."
Malcolm probably can't bully the ABC like he use to
Malcolm is an open book and he has been used to destroy the LNP from the inside for a very long period of time. And those fools within the LNP supported him so he could do his job thoroughly and well. He just didn't understand that he was used as a tool. They had the perfect situation, a LNP member with Labor ideas. That is better and more effective than three years in opposition.
No complaint from me, if you are so stupid to be used as party, you deserve to be voted out.
There trolls are out in force.
Yeah, they even are outside forum rules now with correcting spelling mistakes. They really get desperate as they run without substance. Arguments dear trollers ... come on you can do it.
Good reason to call a DD
He is not going to call a DD, he is running scared on the MTM-policy (his legacy) and the polls.
IMO, there's no point pursuing the developer.
Why not?
And that can be laid squarely at the door of the LNP Coalition, with failed comms policy following failed comms policy over the last two decades.
Not entirely.
Telstra's non-disclosure of dangerous construction materials and dragging their feet when it was requested contributed greatly to delays in some regions.
Though i guess it all comes back to the LNP for not maintaining control of wholesale/infrastructure when they fire saled the company.
He is not going to call a DD, he is running scared on the MTM-policy (his legacy) and the polls.
I dont know about that.The longer he leaves it, the worse it gets for him.. Tony might even upsurp him.
Windsor is as good as in.
I would like to see Windsor win. In part because of his strong support of the real NBN and in part to take down Barnaby. But I don't agree that he is as good as in, I would say he would be an underdog (yes I know the newspoll showed him slightly ahead). I would think it would be rare for a high ranking member of the front bench to lose their seat, when their party is expected to win. The exception of course is if the person has gone through a scandal, but I don't believe Barnaby has. Most of the electorate would believe (probably correctly) that they should be better off with a Deputy Prime Minister,rather than an independent. But who knows, Windsor was certainly a popular figure before 2010, so it will be interesting to see.
If nothing else, Windosr will get the NBN out there more in the MTM and it should count against Barnaby. A lot of people have been annoyed at the Nats for not fighting for better broadband outside the major cities (although the major cities are not much better).
He is not going to call a DD, he is running scared on the MTM-policy (his legacy) and the polls.
That is more reason to go to the polls as soon as possible (for Turnbull). He is on a downward trend, the longer he waits, the worse it will be and the more time people will have to analyse the (probably weak) budget.
Believe me, Turnbull wants a DD. Given how much he has pissed off the crossbench, he really NEEDS a DD to get rid of (most of) them
Telstra's non-disclosure of dangerous construction materials and dragging their feet when it was requested contributed greatly to delays in some regions.
Telstra usually seems to act firmly in Telstra's own interests, and so other little irrelevancies like any question of national benefit may not become readily apparent.
But a danger point could possibly be reached if, for any reason, the self-perceived interests of Telstra happened to coincide with some others, as for example with a particularly noisome political campaign. The result of such disparate but congruent aspirations could become very detrimental.
I feel like the dam wall has finally burst on the NBN "cluster****" and the mainstream press are finally paying it some real attention (I tried to do my bit by having a word to a News Ltd editor in my circle of friends). Hopefully it will become an actual election issue in the coming months.
The budget will have to be a whopper to cause a significant shift to LNP
To obvious a vote buyer, might backfire on him
Way to go fraudband.
$56 billion pissed away on obsolete garbage.
(I tried to do my bit by having a word to a News Ltd editor in my circle of friends).
Would be a scoop if News came on board for anything bar MTM.
Yes the MTM is a joke & even one of the main contracting companies are treating it like a joke.
A large company in Victoria which is working on FTTN in the Goldfields area has started employing mates who have never worked in the Telco industry as Field Supervisors to over see the works. Blind leading the blind.
I'm not sure that everyone here has seen this so here it is anyway
https://imgur.com/vznUXws
I'm not sure that everyone here has seen this so here it is anyway
https://imgur.com/vznUXws
Yes, been around for a bit..
I've been going through the other Nbn threads and those dealing with fttn are recording a literny of problems.
Open circuits, congestion, speeds slower than their ADSL, serious dropouts. Modem problems, weather and so forth.
Some are even refusing to cut over from ADSL .
Not a good start for fttn
Yes the MTM is a joke & even one of the main contracting companies are treating it like a joke.
A large company in Victoria which is working on FTTN in the Goldfields area has started employing mates who have never worked in the Telco industry as Field Supervisors to over see the works. Blind leading the blind.
what was interesting from last Senate hearing was that Broadspectrum (formerly Transfield) use "Field Supervisors" as OH&S checkers, not as supervisors of the actual work or workers
http://www.xisafety.com/wp-c
Google is introducing Fiber Phone, a $10 a month landline plan with unlimited local and nationwide calls.
A phone only plan..
Nbn should be looking at similar.
Big year for Stephen Rue as NBN races time
Murdoch drinking cool aid..
�The fact is that we are on track to deliver our corporate plan with high-speed broadband access delivered across Australia by 2020. This will be 25Mbps to all as a minimum and 50Mbps to 90 per cent or more of homes and businesses in the fixed-line footprint.
the only reason to do this...drive through the ideological agenda and pay the favours still hanging....
In an age when 'everyone' is concerned about corruption, I still amazes me why voters fall the 'promises' (read, bribes) made every election.
We really are a gullible lot!
(catching up)
I dont know about that.
He is already busy with the exit strategy, amendments so it can pass. If he wants a DD, he would not allow amendments. But he realises that the debate can become rather ugly which will rub of on him.
The longer he leaves it, the worse it gets for him.
That is true, he basically couldn't afford the last and this week.
Tony might even upsurp him.
Would be good, perhaps we can leave the backstabbing behind us then political wise. We don't want Italian situations here. Don't think it makes any difference to how people vote though.
That is more reason to go to the polls as soon as possible (for Turnbull).
Sadly for Turnbull he has to operate in an environment where many members of his party are in the position of a fight of a lifetime to stay in the seat.
He is on a downward trend, the longer he waits, the worse it will be and the more time people will have to analyse the (probably weak) budget.
I bet he misses Credlin now, management wise. :)
Believe me, Turnbull wants a DD.
There is a difference between "wanting" something and "getting" something. The circumstances run more unfavourable with each day that passes. It will be a calculative move for him to call a DD or not. The less worse situation of all bad so to speak.
150 comments , 99% wanting fibre brought back..
Not bad for a msm story..
Yep, that is good which is really why I quote all the above. The discussion on the failed MTM-policy is front and centre now, it is Lord Light bulb's legacy and left himself no choice.
Had to laugh at Paul Barry suggesting that the ABC was perceived as left leaning.. In fact it was right leaning.
The ABC leans to the funding and doesn't mind to help out left once in while to get rid of right .... ;)
It makes sense for Telstra to install copper � Telstra get their copper connection charge, they're not forced to wholesale it for a pittance because it doesn't go over 25Mbps, and then they can sell it to NBNCo later for a markup when they have to dump their nodes there.
Make total sense when reading it, typical case of failed Telecom policies.
If the ABCC legislation fails it would be political suicide to *not* call a DD after all this build up.
Yes and just don't you love the picture? A devoted republican who has to run to the GG to bully the independents in passing a anti-bully law for the building industry. And then ends up calling a DD because he has political no other choice but is then confronted with his own legacy and disastrous failures when he was Telecommunication Minister. The irony could not be bigger and man that will hurt.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
I doubt that Turnbull gives a damn about the NBN in relation to having a DD.
I think he only cares when it looks bad on HIM and that moment has arrived.
As I understand it when a DD happens both halves of the Senate must be elected, not just the usual half.
But in favour of the independents, they only have to collect half the votes to get in. Light bulb would rather call a normal election if he wishes to pick the fruits of his deal with the Greens.
He is probably gambling on getting an overall majority to control the Senate as well as the Reps so he can bull through unpopular LNP legislation they have been holding back on since 2013.
His goal is not a DD, his goal consists out of a very long list of legislation to pass (and for which he wants to claim victory).
I expect in time Telstra will be 'reluctantly' persuaded to buy NBNCo at a fire sale price
No, they are not interested. Only interested in profiteering from it which is fair enough. They don't mind selling Brisbane Fibre at the right price to make that Bill makes his numbers for this year.
You are right it looks like quite a gamble.
The man likes to play high stakes, so much is clear.
That's good for the future of FTTP. This could be a 'most exciting time'....
Yes, I think the current situation can not get much better for FTTP.
We really are a gullible lot!
Indeed, also that some actually defend them for their indefensible deeds as well is mind boggling.
The MTM is indefensible waste of money.
But then again some people do support corruption and frauds in politics sadly.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Well we kind of already knew this
Murdoch drinking cool aid..
So 25mbit in 2016 is considered "high speed"?
Again, 10 years ago the MTM disaster would have been a viable option when it was floated at the coat of $10-12 Billion with an upgrade path to FTTP factored into the design and build.
But "up to" 25mbit being considered high speed in 2016 when being delivered by a MTM network costing as much if not more than FTTP and will be delivered no sooner if not much later than the original build is pure political driven madness.
We've paid far to high a price to satisfy the desires of a small group of people seeking power, influence and money. I hope Abbott, Turnbull, their minders and benefactors are happy.
Well we kind of already knew this
Yep, not worth paying for that what we know already.
Murdoch drinking cool aid..
�The fact is that we are on track to deliver our corporate plan with high-speed broadband access delivered across Australia by 2020.
sort of forgets the 25Mbps by the end of our first term promise of his overlords though..
So the corporate plan does not meet the policy promise taken to the last election, and given the corporate plan has to be signed off by the shareholder ministers, that by default means the Liberals have failed to keep the first part of the promise.
So why should anyone believe that they can actually meet the second part?
NBN released an updated timeline for the rollout here
Source and credit to The Shovel. Sorry
NBN released an updated timeline for the rollout here
can someone please remove the hook from my mouth, and the sinker and the 100 metres of line.
k, thanks
Would be a scoop if News came on board for anything bar MTM.
Indeed. I actually had a go at her after she used me as a background source on why people pirate TV shows. I told her the main reason for me was that I couldn't get streaming to work without major quality or buffering issues and that buying season packs was far too expensive. Her response was that I should "just get better internet". Cue the rage. I told her she should probably do some research on how the internet works before writing "technology" articles � and that if she insists on writing technology articles, she should probably focus on the NBN (you know, an issue of national importance) rather than writing clickbait trash on the piracy of Game of Thrones. I'm not holding my breath though...
The ABC is asking for people to tell them what their biggest election issue is:
Done
With your long blonde hair
and your eyes of blue
The only thing I got from you
was sorrow ( Morrow )
Sorrow ( Morrow )
This could go down in history � thanks for the laughs...
even though we don't know what Labors plans are yet.
Anything has to better than this MTM flusterf_ck !!!
The ABC is asking for people to tell them what their biggest election issue is:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
Too easy.
Yep
New isp will rollout fibre and they will not wait for nbn https://www.lightningbroadband.com.au/residential/
The speed will start from 200mbps , just in melbourn at the moment
+ 1 small vote
The speed will start from 200mbps , just in melbourn at the moment
and this tech is exactly what Malcolm was pushing when Labor's FTTP network was first mooted.
Did malcolm allowed private isps to rollout fibre?
As i know no one allowed except nbntm !
The speed will start from 200mbps , just in melbourn at the moment
Let the cherry picking begin...
I wish labor allow all isps to rollout fibre to their customers and this will make massive competition and the taxpayers will not waste any money and the budget will focus on another important issues in australia
New isp will rollout fibre and they will not wait for nbn https://www.lightningbroadband.com.au/residential/
The speed will start from 200mbps , just in melbourn at the moment
direct fibre and/or hybrid wireless + fibre broadband technology. Symetrical
We install a fibre link (single mode, single strand, multi-spectrum fibre) into an area already provisioned as being �on-net�. This acts as a peer-to-peer (P2P) link to our DC (DC-HSDPA = Dual-Carrier/Dual-Cell) and Transit providers.
For redundancy purposes, we acquire transit from the nation�s leading tier-1 providers such as Vocus, PIPE, Telstra and AAPT.
We then use 24 Ghz microwave backhaul links to beam this bandwidth to a central location within an area; such as the rooftop of the local shopping center. This backhaul link is symmetrical, low latency and capable of throughput greater than a gigabit.
The signal is captured by our receiver and terminates at a Cisco 2911 POP router, which handles routing and IP termination and assignment.
From there, the signal is transmitted through Cisco 3750�s/3560�s/2960�s access switches to the 802.11n and 802.11ac 5.8ghz radio equipment, then to an array of transmitters atop a mast around 20 metres high for re-broadcasting.
The signal is received by a small microwave receiver mounted of the roof of the client�s premises. An outdoor rated ethernet cable is run from the mast through to an RJ45 wall plate for connection to a WLAN compatible router or directly to a PC.
Even in a situation where there�s no line of sight to a distribution tower, other users of the service that do become relay points for those who don�t.
all isps to rollout fibre to their customers and this will make massive competition
I am unsure whether you are massively ignorant or just a troll.
New isp will rollout fibre and they will not wait for nbn https://www.lightningbroadband.com.au/residential/
The speed will start from 200mbps , just in melbourn at the moment
Looking at the tech specs, its fibre to a high building. Then using microwave antennas to the premises. They say its high speed and low latency. I'm skeptical. If you don't have line of sight, another antenna near by will rebroadcast the signal (24Ghz band, the backhaul is capable of 1Gbps).
No thanks, I'll wait for FTTP or nothing. I want last mile guaranteed stability. CVC and congestion is another story.
I wish labor allow all isps to rollout fibre to their customers and this will make massive competition and the taxpayers will not waste any money and the budget will focus on another important issues in australia
History suggests otherwise would happen.
I am unsure whether you are massively ignorant or just a troll
Neither.. Just someone not fully informed.. Hes ok, no troll..
Did malcolm allowed private isps to rollout fibre?
As i know no one allowed except nbntm !
Interesting isn't it?
TPG can only do FTTB because they were already registered and they abide by 1km rule...as I understand it.
New isp will rollout fibre and they will not wait for nbn https://www.lightningbroadband.com.au/residential/
The speed will start from 200mbps , just in melbourn at the moment
I think someone forgot to mention to them that NBN FTTP can go to 1600/1600 mbps...
New isp will rollout fibre and they will not wait for nbn https://www.lightningbroadband.com.au/residential/
�We use tried and tested technology along with some clever engineering to offer our services; which we�ll roll out wherever we find sufficient demand.
Yep, more cherry picking. Moving along.
ABC is asking for people to tell them what their biggest election issue is:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
Too easy.
I don't mind sharing that the second question � what would you change � I answered as Media concentration laws.
This is the root and vehicle of political evil in this nation IMO. NBN is the perfect example
FTTP can deliver (and FTTN/MTM can't) to all of those in service delivery increasing productivity and reducing costs while contributing soem $20B pa to GDP on tod
This amount of $20B pa is a myth originating on WP, no-one believes it. If anyone believed it then the experts that appeared in senate hearings would have bought it up. Why hasn't Internet Australia or one the university professors that appeared in Senate bring up $20B pa?
Let me emphasie. EVERY SINGLE NATION! U.K, NZ, Singapore, the U.S.A and more that i can't be bothered listing are all going fibre,
This is not true, there are very few countries that are going Fiber all the way. Overseas the majority of rollouts reflects the MTM.
The fact is the USA has 134M premises and Verizon the largest FTTP provider has 6.6M activations, this is a fact. There are no plans to take Fiber all the way.
It's safe to say USA will have 20% Fiber penetration like the MTM, like the 80/20 rule. The US rollouts have been biased towards cherry picking the easy 20% of households (80/20 rule) to maximise ROI.
Even NZ being a small country is only going to be about 70% not 100%.
"We have a total of 6.6 million FiOS Internet subscribers, representing 41.1 percent penetration...
http://www.statista.com/topi
http://arstechnica.com/busin
Even in Europe there are no plans to roll out FTTP all the way, FTTB is the standard over there and bundled in with FTTP � They are not going to smash through or endanger 400 year buildings in Europe rolling out Fiber, thus why they bundle in FTTB/FTTP together.
I have been to many European countries and you will find FTTB is the norm but the ISP' s will call it Fiber, as said they do not differentiate between FTTP or FTTB. The vast majority live in apartments and thus why it's FTTB.
The Coalition should consider switching FTTB portion into the FTTP (away from FTTN) portion of the rollout like they do in Europe, it's standard overseas and show they are rolling out more FTTP. If they did the FTTP/FTTB metric would be >30% and likely higher than FTTN.
There are now nearly 15 million FTTH/B subscribers on the European continent (14.5 million to be exact) � not including Russia and the Ukraine, which would add a further 14.8 million homes to the total (source: FTTH market panorama prepared by IDATE for FTTH Council Europe).
http://www.ftthcouncil.eu/do
$20Billion makes for less than 4%. Of course it's been mentioned, and has been seen to be the case in many other countries.
Not that anyone here should really be feeding the trolls or shills, but some things mentioned are just too ridiculous to be left there, steaming...
Which makes Telstra and your statement as false. That's a business decision, not a blocker. As TPG took the business decision to progress.
much to Mal's chagrin.
They were quick and agile by forming a new wholesale division for FTTB only.
Mal thought his rules would require TPG to split itself into 2 totally separate divisions.
Whereas they took the quick and simple path to form Wondercom , guess their legal people knew what the rules said, not what Mal thought they said or what he meant them to say
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Overseas the majority of rollouts reflects the MTM
Translation: There is a mixture of technologies used throughout the world. What is being rolled out *currently* is fibre, in some places to replace the ill-considered and inadequate FTTN/CTTP hybrid that failed so spectacularly in places such as the UK and NZ.
NZ is going to be 70%? The "mix" you appear to be wishing to conflate into what could be mis-represented as an equivalent of the dog's breakfast we are getting could well include satellite and wireless. This may have something to do with the terrain.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
This is not true, there are very few countries that are going Fiber all the way. Overseas the majority of rollouts reflects the MTM.
They roll out Fibre and utilise existing technologies.
At the moment we're rolling out copper (not solely mind you).
There is a difference.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
This amount of $20B pa is a myth originating on WP
Wrong, it is a fact based on independent international analysis.
Overseas the majority of rollouts reflects the MTM.
Please cite even one ongoing rollout that includes buying or building copper and HFC networks.
It's safe to say USA will have 20% Fiber penetration like the MTM
It's safe to say that your claim is entirely baseless.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
This is not true, there are very few countries that are going Fiber all the way. Overseas the majority of rollouts reflects the MTM.
Sensible observations. The majority of posters here are unable to process such.
Let's see how long before someone latches on to the headline 'AT&T, Google launch new 1Gbps FTTP networks in US' and gets worked up about how the 'US is on 1Gps' while he is stuck with MTM.
I thought the same and after some googling yesterday for gigabit fibre in W.A I had
http://www.ciphertel.com/ciphertel-gigabit-link/
Thanks for googling better than me! That could be it but I'm still not completely sold. Maybe I'll ask him directly.
Wrong, it is a fact based on independent international analysis.
I haven't a whole lot from you that I could label either 'independent' or 'analysis'.
Sensible observations.
If you honestly think that, then you should feel free to answer the request directed to Raoul:
Please cite even one ongoing rollout that includes buying or building copper and HFC networks.
You will struggle, because in reality none exist.
NZ is going to be 70%?
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Even NZ being a small country is only going to be about 70% not 100%.
There is quite a bit of misinformation about New Zealand's "NBN" rollout.
The entire rollout will cover 97.8% of the population, which is a combination of the following:
- All towns and cities with a population above 10,000 inhabitants (covering 80% of the population) will be provided with Fibre. This EXCLUDES the lead-in from the street to the premises... it is effectively Fibre to the Driveway. Customers must arrange their own lead-in through their ISP.
The Fibre infrastructure is 50% owned by the local electricity companies, to incentivise their participation and utilise their existing infrastructure (poles and ductwork). - The remaining 17.8% of the population will be covered with a "mix" of technologies including FTTN, Wireless (via a Vodafone partnership) and in some cases ADSL will be provided.
I hope that's clear. The NZ arrangement was made to be as cost efficient as possible, maximise the use of the electricity infrastructure (not the existing copper infrastructure). Difficulties with installation from the street to the premises are the building owners' responsibilities.
Currently the project is currently 60% complete, with full completion in 2022.
You will struggle, because in reality none exist.
No sensible organisation would plan on using ancient copper today � let alone install more copper!
Copper (twisted if you are lucky) pairs was designed by we engineers to transmit telegraph and then voice grade signalling using high voltages and considerable current in the 300-3,000 Hz range. With some clever tweaking we first managed 300 baud, then all the way up to 56,000 which was pushing it to it's limit.
The ADSL standards pushed this even further but things started to get problematic at those speeds. Reliability suffered and speed was HEAVILY dependent on line length.
Now VDSL/G.fast has pushed it even further but to be honest that is taking a T model Ford and dropping in a V8 motor, extractors and upgraded brakes.... might sound good but it is a disaster waiting to happen. (and who would want such an ugly vehicle in any case?) By the way, the T model Ford is not as old as using copper for transmission (first used in Australia for telegraph transmission in 1854... and for international transmission in 1870.... voice transmissions over telephone lines in Australia commenced in 1879 and coin operated "public phones" were introduced in around 1890. Some of our cabling almost appears to be that old � or maybe that is just the pathetic maintenance it received as it was assumed to be heading towards its "end of life".
Ancient technology � sure is, subject to also sorts of environmental disruption- yep and is there a better alternative � of course there is but some people are just too blind (or politically biased) to see.
stop feeding the trolls
market analyses doesn't see past 1 year nevermind the 5 year election cycle of the australian political system..
earmark of service of anytype of fttn based system regardless of where you access the convertor to copper based network for 1.5 year you might have a slim operation excess on capital though by the start of year 2 if you aren't investing in infrastructure you are going to loose money failing to make the upgrade because the longer you ignore its service the more it cost's to maintain ir and copper degrades the longer it is left...
23 years ago it was costing then telecom australia now telstra 1 billion annually to *cough* maintain ***cough*** its copper network today 10 billion would likely be its claim though financial reality it likely be closer to 20-25 billion to maintain its network of copper..
reality is the copper isn't fit for purpose at 24/1 nor i doubt it will cover 24/1 or 25/5-1000/400 or 40/20GB or what ever a complete fibre networking end point is capable of producing at full speed..
i find with migration to fibre or fois as the yanks call it i can see what we f-connectors being fazed out with fta tuners migration to an optical connection, with the option 100,000 network providers for pay tv.. it's going to make foxtel/optus/telstra obsolete in a way..
Does anyone know if there has been any FTTN implemented in WA?
Next month or so Cannington (or part thereof) is due to go RFS....Doubleview also I believe has had works going on...
Sensible observations.
A stinking pile of half truths and out of date "facts" .... that you swallowed whole... good to see Raoul has picked up another acolyte here.
Sensible observations. The majority of posters here are unable to process such.
You sound like you pair are straight out of the World is Flat clique. "I say Jimmy, i knew the world was flat... look at them their hills in the distance.. i can still see them!"
Jimmy: " yep me too.. all of those scientists, explorers, and professionals have to be wrong... one person agrees with me!"
As a freight ship disappears over the horizon two and three times the distance the mountain is.
Sensible observations
Absolute tosh!
Show me which countries are doing what we are � hint � there are none!
NZ was and changed.
The UK has issues with fttn and is looking at changing.
Kenya etc are also now installing FTTP as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wik
I am not aware that Telstra were rolling out copper in new greenfields where they were the provider of last resort prior to the 2013 election. I am fairly sure this would have been reported.
What has changed?
Haven't you heard the latest?
Skinny fibre, not Project Fox, but ACTUAL skinny fibre.
Get excited...
What has changed?
Cost...
Be assured that not only has the material costs decreased, the installing of it has hit a new low...
EDIT: Newly revisited contracts, NBN getting more harsh on the bottom line, contractors looking over their shoulders at international pricing, etc...
I do, trust me...
Love to Geo but how can I when my reality doesn't seem to match yours?
From one of the links from Auten Tayshus post whrl.pl/ReApK1 there it is again.
Asked to comment on why it was deploying copper to new estates instead of fibre, a Telstra spokesperson said the decision was due to policy laid down by the Government.
�Consistent with government policy, developers are free to pick the carrier of their choice to deploy the infrastructure they need, whether it be fibre or copper, to their new estates,� they said. �Under the current regulatory settings we can�t roll out a fibre network and then retail voice services over it, so where we are approached by a developer to build new telecommunications infrastructure we roll out copper.�
Looks like copper being deployed to me.
Cost...
Do you mean it is cheaper to install fibre now so they are installing copper?
Love to Geo but how can I when my reality doesn't seem to match yours?
I'm not going to argue, but see my edit above, times are a changing..
Be assured that not only has the material costs decreased, the installing of it has hit a new low...
Of what? Copper or FttP?
FttP
FTT(x?).
FTTB not looking good ATM, and that's only from Whirlpool talk.
It's been clearly obvious the NBN is not viewing FTTB as a good option. Just ask Jxeeno of the latest figures, they will likely be pretty correct.
Blind Freddy can see the market isn't following that trend?
If you do indeed love these articles...
https://delimiter.com.au/201
FTT(x).
FTTB not looking good ATM, and that's only from Whirlpool talk.
You have not posted anything of substance that I have read in these threads and this is another example.
FttB is the one aspect of Ftt(anything but P) that most in these threads would concede is a realistic medium term alternative to FttP.
In reality FttB is just FttDP in a big building. The issue is the length of the copper tail. It always was.
The current FttN proposal being rolled out leaves this too long and sacrifices long term upgradability for short term capex reductions.
It's been clearly obvious the NBN is not viewing FTTB as a good option.
What is clearly obvious is that FttP has been the technology that has enabled nbnTM to meet their targets to date (pitiful that they are).
What is also clear is that FttB in nbnTM speak means FttN (near a MDU)
Blind Freddy can see the market isn't following that trend?
So please enlighten me as to what the market is doing. And not just your ramblings give me some links to actual information.
You have not posted anything of substance
I will take that on the chin.
FttB is the one aspect of Ftt(anything but P) that most in these threads would concede is a realistic medium term alternative to FttP.
FTTB, in the Australian context, is dead in the ground. Forget it, or put your money where your mouth is. Or join TPG...
On paper, it looks good, but the figures aren't looking good. NBN have a different SoE.
They (NBN) won't muck about with FTTB, it's obvious already. They can dump a FTTN cabinet 100m up the road, and problem solved.. But we won't go tech in this post..
EDIT: or FTTdp if its a small one.
So please enlighten me as to what the market is doing.
In the Australian context, MTM?
If you do indeed love these articles...
https://delimiter.com.au/20
I am not a huge fan of Renai but, you know what that article tells me? Large brownfield MDUs are hard.
Mike Quigley acknowledged that in 2010. Imagine how much harder they are to get fibre all the way to the premises, yet they managed to implement a way to do it by late 2012 that started to bear results by early 2014 in terms of SC0 premises.
Imagine � skinny fibre to the extremely hard apartment. Win for consumers, win for NBN, win for body corp?
I do know that Mike Quigley made it clear to one of the parliamentary or senate committees (in around late 2011/ early 2012) that at the time the network was being planned as per the SoE (in 2009-2010) technologies like G.fast and DOCSIS 3.1 were not appropriate choices for a national broadband network rollout given the uncertain nature of those technologies, and the fact that the company did not own a copper or HFC network.
The same argument applies to reverse powered FttDP which is still not an option right now � but it is getting close.
They won't muck about with FTTB, it's obvious already. They can dump a FTTN cabinet 100m up the road, and problem solved.
The whole FttN rollout is in question. Issues with getting power to the nodes alone, suggest to me that there is a very real possibility for FttDP to become the default option � particularly with a change of government. The cost differential at $400 currently with the potential for an additional an unrealised saving of another ~$450 on projected costs is too close for it to be otherwise. What could a company committed to driving down fibre rollout costs achieve?
The whole FttN rollout is in question.
The whole NBN is in question. I'm possibly not the one to ask the overall question?
One thing is for sure, as I've always said, technology will win!!
I think we should just say, 50mbps is the standard (this year and next), won't see the end of the MTM, but FTTN, HFC will get a good looking at eh?
Mike Quigley acknowledged that in 2010.
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't deviate much from that statement to this day.
However, we are in 2016...
50mbps is the standard
That is in the current SoE but that is a document that could be updated at any time.
What could a company committed to driving down fibre rollout costs achieve?
This exactly!!
However, we are in 2016..
And your point is?
This is the problem I have with your posts � no substance. Dont expect me to guess what you are thinking. If you are going to make a comment make one that makes sense, or argues a point, or claims something.
i would back fttdp if i knew it could bank delivering 1-10gb up to 750 meters.
though I can't see it being used past 100 meters let alone 150-500 meters can you let alone it delivering it at 100gb-1Tb..
I would like see the data limits on this skinny fibre option first before passing judgement on it in both narrowband and wideband applications first..
I also want to know whether it would be suitable for 40gb and above applications like traditional fibre is before committing $400-1000+ for its install...
Note reverse power might be an option for powering these fttdp type node, you have failed to look the legal liability angle and the addition insurances past the land boundary never mind the implication of physically crossing the road..
note why we live in a single world formost things remind yourself that we live 3 phase distribution where min spec can 240 vac upto 520 vac with float of 270-350 vac on our power grid coming into our homes, not to mention weight of cabinets over the current pits servicing us copper telephony, gas, water, ug power within a less of a meter radius of the telcomms pit..
I believe fdh is going to replace the existing node or D/A pillar or top hat deployments with standard or skinny fibre though the conditions placed on skinny options of fibre must exceed a minimum spec 100Tb throughput or atleast within the current realms of traditional fibre that has a current max speed spec
fat inferior performance..
Yup nothing like spending on a hefty monthly bill on inferior internet access.
I doubt very much this is happening, even in the consumer market.
They are rolling out copper in my new 16 lot estate just 13km north of Brisbane city.
They are rolling out copper in my new 16 lot estate just 13km north of Brisbane city.
Who is "they"?
300k, all going financially well will increase substantially...
I've already heard that NBNCo are talking closer to the 1m mark for FTTdP.
Who is "they"?
Telstra as IPoLR for developments less than 100 lots.
Neighbour just moved in to his brand new house next to my half constructed house and they pulled new copper in.
Some telcos (BT/the UK is mulling the idea) are going for both � they'll install G.fast and PON equipment simultaneously, and if you want FTTP, you can have it at an extra cost (which won't be much since it won't be a huge engineering effort). I'm not convinced that this is really cheaper or better than just doing FTTP though.
It may not be, but it gives the seller the flexibility of offering different products that it can pitch at different price points. We're talking about free enterprise: the game is persuading consumers to part with as much money as possible without feeling like they are being fleeced.
It's possible to get fibre, adsl, (or even dial-up I think), in Tokyo � something for every pocket.
I've already heard that NBNCo are talking closer to the 1m mark for FTTdP.
I've heard it from you, I've also done the maths.
I'm seriously hoping it's infill type numbers, but I have a huge suspicion it's to be the replacement for FTTB, that means anyone in inner city type areas. It will be the number one choice in inner city area's.
Just to be positive, FoD might come down in price for those areas.
Suburbia, no change on the horizon...???
HFC if your lucky, or FTTN it is...
Denise Shrivell � ?@deniseshrivell
Tomorrow at 12 @SenatorLudlam joins me LIVE on a video chat to discuss the #nbn #auspol � Hope you can listen in -> https://blab.im/7y33a
Link?
Not a link, you'd have to go by my word but most info I've published previously in Senate thread has been pretty accurate
I'm seriously hoping it's infill type numbers, but I have a huge suspicion it's to be the replacement for FTTB, that means anyone in inner city type areas. It will be the number one choice in inner city area's.
At this stage I don't have an indication either, but I expect like yourself it will be used for infill/MDU's etc particularly in HFC areas. Cost to drop in a FTTN cabinet or roll HFC for a small MDU will be very high, where as FTTdP if meeting expectations may be cheaper and arguably more cost effective.
Just to be positive, FoD might come down in price for those areas.
FoD certainly was one of the items cited as being a benefit of the skinny fibre. I don't have a lot of confidence though, because I'm hearing heaps of info on how poor and archaic the internal processes around design, deployment etc are. It doesn't surprise me that they cannot deliver a cost effective FoD today.
m mark for FTTdP
Lets not beat about the bush...
1M, that was never a number plucked out of the air. Skinny fibre, hmmm.
It's pretty much the inner city MDU market...
1M, that was never a number plucked out of the air. Skinny fibre, hmmm.
It's pretty much the inner city MDU market...
That would make sense..
Just to be positive, FoD might come down in price for those areas.
Really Geo with turnbull and co on record stating that FoD was around $5000 per premise passed!
And "THIS" was based on the UK model that the LNP modelled MTM on!
Which as we know: was "prior" to the UK nearly doubling the price of FoD, � which doesn't include; a raft of additional costs that those poor bastards consigned to this inferior architecture also have to stump up for; in getting a half baked solution that doesn't provide even half of what a now obsolete GPON network is capable of!
Your "positive" FoD might come down?
Who cares, it does nothing to arrest the position of MTM which the reality is their model isn't delivering and this is reflected in the fact that in the UK
The UK suffers from some of the slowest speeds for internet of any developed major nation.
Their obsolete copper based network doesn't deliver the reliability, nor can it deliver: a future digital economy.
The UK is falling further behind while its tech sector buggers off to where they can actually deliver their product
The cost of their copper based network is estimated to be costing their economy $11 billion pounds per year
Data consumption growth rates of 50 plus percent which require even more money now to be spent addressing congestion
And how does "reduced" costs for FoD answer the complete failure of the above Geo for the majority of Australians here consigned to MTM?
http://www.cmo.com.au/articl
�One of the great things about NBN is that we believe our product is absolutely ground-breaking,� he claimed. �The speeds are unbelievable and the reliability is good
It's not April fools day is it?
Your "positive" FoD might come down?
Read my post again, I might have missed the /s.
But suburbia isn't on the band wagon, and I can't see the business case yet either. (ducks)
Looks like Labor considers the NBN an election issue https://delimiter.com.au/2016
Which was also prior to the UK nearly doubling the price of FoD, which doesn't include; a raft of additional costs that those poor bastards consigned to this inferior architecture also have to stump up for in getting a half baked solution that doesn't provide even half of what a now obsolete GPON network is capable of!
BT doesn't actually want FTTP on demand to take off, though � they have leased line revenues to protect. Don't assume that their wholesale pricing reflects actual costs. You can't actually order it right now anyway. Supposedly it's being regrooved and polished for when G.fast happens.
FWIW, VDSL in the UK is not that bad. It is an absolutely shortsighted move, sure, and I would definitely disagree with the decision not to use FTTP for the majority. But we haven't had most of the issues that NBN seem to be having, and some of them don't exist at all (because BT isn't shutting down analogue POTS or ADSL). Of course we have the speed/distance issue, and we have the crosstalk issue because BT doesn't do vectoring.
I can live with being on VDSL for a few more years, just as I have done already. I will jump to a newer technology the instant it becomes available though. That includes FTTP on demand if they make it a reasonable price.
It may not be, but it gives the seller the flexibility of offering different products that it can pitch at different price points. We're talking about free enterprise: the game is persuading consumers to part with as much money as possible without feeling like they are being fleeced.
But the seller in this case is the same company � BT's infrastructure arm. Why spend money rolling out two networks when you can roll out one that does it all, does it more elegantly, does it more cheaply and easily (in the long run), allows for the obsolescence of ancient legacy services like POTS, and is basically fit and forget?
The main problem with G.fast, for any country, is that it replaces simple bits of glass with complicated active electronics, while providing a poorer result � and it can't be upgraded to the next level (xg.fast) without replacing all those electronics in a fairly expensive and disruptive fashion
Looks like Labor considers the NBN an election issue
Good news, this is a clear weakness for TurnCoat and his mismanagement and destruction of the NBN should be highlighted at every opportunity!
Your "positive" FoD might come down?
Read my post again, I might have missed the /s.
But suburbia isn't on the band wagon, and I can't see the business case yet either. (ducks)
I'm hearing heaps of info on how poor and archaic the internal processes around design, deployment etc are.
I can also see a lack of demand in the consumer market. Without creating FUD, it's simply not a business goal of NBN to provide FoD in the short term. Why would they put any real effort into it?
Imagine the media hype?
It's bad enough on discussion forums...
I will jump to a newer technology the instant it becomes available though. That includes FTTP on demand if they make it a reasonable price.
The news is that Ofcom are to regulate that BT's competitors will get access to their "dark fibre" network!
Here what obviously will happen is that City Fibre and others will now deploy FTTH to markets that they cherry pick into so you might get lucky here!
Whilst the sad thing here is that the UK Government has invested heavily in failed FTTN services, and now is having to invest even further in provisioning upgrades to that eg G.fast/others just to stay relevant!
However this whilst the poor British Taxpayer is now faced with funding not only an obsolete copper based national network but now will have to provide the capital write off's to duplicated and triplicated networks being built willy nilly across its landscape!
Dead set: Peter Cochrane and many others who warned of why FTTN was one of the biggest mistakes to venture upon unfortunately can say they were entirely justified in their statements of fact!
And more's the pity is that the public allowed this to happen in the first place based no doubt on the vested interests of existing infrastructure owners who were/are only happy to continue squeezing the last bit of breath out of their end of life copper!
A position unfortunately mirrored here under the mess that Malcolm has made here!
Read my post again, I might have missed the /s.
Fair enough but IHardon from the UK makes a excellent point with respect to FoD there, not to mention running multiple dedicated Fibre runs to individual premises, would have here in Australia in possibly damaging our already 2 minutes to midnight copper! and of course degrading existing FTTN services: � a point that no doubt will happen if they go ahead with FTTdp for those beyond the 1km limit.
But suburbia isn't on the band wagon, and I can't see the business case yet either. (ducks)
You mean the one that turnbull promised to release when queried as to why his MTM model would actually cost prior to the last election and then said he would once he had a chance to review NBN's ledger!
Mmmmm: Which of course we are now well into the 3rd year since that occurred � and no business case!
Which of course is yet another broken promise in what is now a litany of broken promises!
A position unfortunately mirrored here under the mess that Malcolm has made here!
Mal Pal signed a deal with AL to use "whatever".
To my knowledge, that stands status quo.
This is probably not the right area to post this, but what I want to know is why does Necropolis Drive, Rookwood NSW 2141 have the NBN as last time I was there the residence didn't need it?
with respect to FoD there
Seriously, what is your estimate of FoD takeup?
Lets make it $500 to get things rolling, remembering that people still complain about the current $300 standard charge.
why does Necropolis Drive, Rookwood NSW 2141 have the NBN as last time I was there the residence didn't need it?
One of my relative's is buried there and as a resident they certainly don't have any need of it./ Sorry light hearted humor!
Lets make it $500 to get things rolling, remembering that people still complain about the current $300 standard charge.
I'm currently in favour of fibre as a utility, FTTdP as the default standard, and simplified FTTP connection as a price point of around $500.
If Telstra can nationally run copper to the premise for $299, I'm sure NBN can do similar.
Seriously, what is your estimate of FoD takeup?
For the SME market they will still go dedicated Ethernet, for the home user with an ABN, who like the SME market can write the cost off to the taxpayer they similarly would go that route if available.
As for the average punter, given the "hidden" costs they would have to stump up and pay for � you only would have to have a few disasters as we've seen in the UK to put the market off entirely!
Lets make it $500 to get things rolling
Let's make it "several thousand dollars" per premise for FoD � as an average just to provide a "realistic" mark to start with!
*Noting of course that across in New Zealand where they are currently deploying FTTH the cost per premise in their more challenging geographically unstable environment is $1600.
Sort of puts a gobstopper in the FoD argument when you start doing the numbers here and "adding" the real cost to government and the Taxpayer!
Cheers
Seriously, what is your estimate of FoD takeup?
Currently it appears to be zero for individuals, and one successful area switch.
It certainly doesn't seem to be an option that NBNCo want people to exercise.
I'm sure NBN can do similar.
After $56B, I can't see why not. After all, it just a "fee".
All jokes aside, if we venture down the FoD path, which I DON'T disagree with, I think an extra $200 buck's is a good starting point.
Currently
ZZZT, we are making serious proposals/estimates. Real estimates please.
Currently it appears to be zero for individuals
I think in last Senate hearing nbn� said there had been 4 or 5 successful deployments of FOD, will check hansard in a little while
*Noting of course that across in New Zealand where they are currently deploying FTTH the cost per premise in their more challenging geographically unstable environment is $1600.
I'll put this on my Google list of things to check out!!
if we venture down the FoD path, which I DON'T disagree with, I think an extra $200 buck's is a good starting point.
I'm prepared to pay $10,000.
I'm prepared to pay $10,000.
I'll go out on a limb, I recon at the end of the day I'd pay $2-3000 for an HFC upgrade. I'd cough up $1500-2000 for a FTTN upgrade.
AND that's with industry know-all.
I'm pretty stingy!!
EDIT: Why the extra for HFC? Because I'd have to have a good reason.
Let's make it "several thousand dollars" per premise for FoD � as an average just to provide a "realistic" mark to start with!
No. Lets make it $500 for starters. I'd like to hear what your statistics are, both long and short term.
Then we can hit the good figures!!
No. Lets make it $500. I'd like to hear what your statistics are, both long and short term!!
Pity we can't do polls on wp, because I would be interested to know what people would be prepared to pay for fod..
HFC if your lucky, or FTTN it is...
Who would have thought that in 2016 when talking about the National Broadband Network we'd be considering people "lucky" if they were the ones on HFC.
Welcome to 1997*?
Good thing it's not costing us almost as much as FTTP to get the MTM up and running which will then need upgrading to FTTP for an additional cost.
(My first experience with Broadband was Bigpond Cable Advance, 512kbps Unlimited Data, in 1997, HFC is much older than that).
Is it me, or does anyone that walk through the doors of NBN get brainwashed?
I'm pretty sure that are only letting in ex-carrier guy's ATM. Given the telecoms market in recent years, they don't muck about.
Sad but true.
The main problem with G.fast, for any country, is that it replaces simple bits of glass with complicated active electronics, while providing a poorer result � and it can't be upgraded to the next level (xg.fast) without replacing all those electronics in a fairly expensive and disruptive fashion
You're looking at from a purely engineering angle. BT would want to lock up the copper because it keeps out potential competition. Disclaimer: I know nothing about the UK broadband market � I'm assuming that independent ISPs have some legislated, and price controlled, rights to existing over copper. If BT allowed the copper network to remain, competing ISPs could offer cheap services over copper, and thereby undermine BT's investment in fibre.
From the horse's mouth:
Its not the rules that are stopping Telstra, its Telstras greed. There is no reason they cant comply with the rules and roll out fibre, as other fibre providers do. They want to gouge as much money out of developer/customers as they can, and so they don't want to open access their infrastructure. The rules aren't the problem.
I'll go out on a limb, I recon at the end of the day I'd pay $2-3000 for an HFC upgrade. I'd cough up $1500-2000 for a FTTN upgrade.
AND that's with industry know-all.
I'm pretty stingy!!
EDIT: Why the extra for HFC? Because I'd have to have a good reason.
I wouldn't.
I'd happily pay $2000 to get FTTP, however the cavaet is that AVC costs are lowered for the lifetime of the fibre to that premises (And it never gets moved or given to anyone else, unlike copper where people lose it if they don't use it. Not enough pairs).
But given my home is 1m from the street and the install will be on the first wall. I'd doubt $2000 gives me that value. $500 is more realistic for an ultra simple install.
If it gets cat(x) cabling, that will be a big breakthrough for the building industry..
for how long...short term solution...
Ask a tenant if they want to pay a small premium (if that is in fact the case) for a long term solution that means they never need to think about it again and the smart majority would say yes...
Yet another anonymous face peddling a hackneyed and bankrupt ideology.
Reality hurts I know, but you should let history be your guide. Telstra have a very long history of such behaviour. Why do you think its suddenly different now?
One day you will figure out that you live in a capitalist society.
There are plenty of fibre providers out there making good money in greenfields areas without gouging people, and blaming someone else. Always amuses me when people defend Telstra's gouging and use a cheaper ISP for their own services. The irony burns!
I can live with being on VDSL for a few more years, just as I have done already. I will jump to a newer technology the instant it becomes available though. That includes FTTP on demand if they make it a reasonable price.
No doubt it must concern you that it costs you to upgrade to the next iteration each time, when the full FTTP option could be done now so much cheaper than stepping up a number of times � consumer exploitation IMO
BT would want to lock up the copper because it keeps out potential competition.
BT also charge a fee for just having it in the conduit when you get their FTTN � whether you want to use it or not. Check their charges/fees sheet on website. Money for nothing is valuable....
its Telstras greed. There is no reason they cant comply with the rules and roll out fibre, as other fibre providers do. They want to gouge as much money out of developer/customers as they can,
Of course do copper now, charge forit, and they know in next five years or so Fibre will be likely hauled, charge for it ...pay twice for same privilege
One day you will figure out that you live in a capitalist society.
Your presumption that everything capitalist societies do is good is blind faith at its worst � dare I point to GFC...
Greed is not good � whatever society you live in...
Greed is not good � whatever society you live in...
Are you saying that Gordon Gekko had it wrong?
nvm
Pity we can't do polls on wp, because I would be interested to know what people would be prepared to pay for fod..
I think I paid about $4k when my suburb told me we were implementing underground power.
I had no choice, it was lumped on to my rates over 2 years.
I'd get much more benefit from FTTP than U/G power, so about $5k with the ability to add it to my rates or pay it off over a decent period.
in the spirit of openness and transparency can anyone tell me how nbn� can show premises between 2 and 68 Fishermans Parade Daley's Point NSW as RFS when they are still running the fibre to the 2 micronodes that supply them?
does RFS now mean that the node is connected to a pillar or a control joint, but not to the FAN/AAS
Just remember that MDU averages closer to the 10 mark than the 50. FTTdP may be cheaper than HFC in this case. Large multiple MDU's would probably see FTTN per your point
10 per MDU sounds a reasonable mean/median premises count by MDU. But if you take the median by premises (ie what is the MDU size of the all premises in MDUs) or the weighted mean you'll get a higher answer, presumably much higher.
Put another way, even if the majority of MDUs get FTTdp, it's still likely the majority of MDU premises will get FTTN. As a result, I don't see how they will get 1mil on FTTdp, unless they've mis-used the averages to arrive at that number.
That said, long loops are unlikely to be the problem for FTTN in high density MDU areas, at least this decade.
Are you saying that Gordon Gekko had it wrong?
On the Silver Screen, No, in real life, in excess or as the only motivating factor, Yes.
Your presumption that everything capitalist societies do is good
I presume no such thing � I'm stating how things are.
You are the only one making presumptions � about my views.
I presume no such thing
I presume you're never going to face up to the fact that anything that isn't fibre, is wasted money.
In other words, tens of billions of dollars on a temporary network saves nothing. It just costs more.
Are you going to finally face the horror outside your door?
So, either BT management are clueless noobs with no business acumen, or you are.
The previous BT CTO pretty much confirmed it is the former.
Hmmm, tough decision.
Here's a tough decision. We either spend tens of billions on a network that will last 50 years and make billions in revenue per year for decades. Or we spend tens of billions on a network that will last 5 years and then have to spend tens of billions more in replacing it.
Tough, eh?
So, either BT management are clueless noobs with no business acumen, or you are
There's a 3rd option...maybe it's your interpretation that is from Mizar?
Companies make decisions for short term gain and long term losses all the time. Its not smart, but it gets the bonuses paid...
So, either BT management are clueless noobs with no business acumen, or you are. Hmmm, tough decision.
Or, their network and copper is far better maintained and the runs much shorten given the geography is much much different?
Edit: Double Post
Edit: Triple Post.
Tough, eh?
But the 5 year option will be "Fast, Affordable and Sooner!" we've been told!
If we reject reality and stick to what we've been told does that help?
But the 5 year option will be "Fast, Affordable and Sooner!" we've been told!
If we reject reality and stick to what we've been told does that help?
Yes, reality is rather unfortunate.
Many of us will remember how when Turnbull was questioned on the NBN in opposition he frequently said "a quarter to a third the cost". A lot of people believed him. And I suspect a lot of people are still left with that general impression.
If its cheap, you don't mind throwing it out after a few years. And in this case if they'd said "lets spend a few billion on some more ADSL2/VDSL in under-served areas while the fibre rollout ramped up" most people would forgive them for essentially throwing good money at a band aid.
But when they say they'll spend tens of billions and you know its temporary, what then?
I've been here since 2007. I've witnessed all kinds of rabbit holes being explored. But the fundamental value proposition is this.
Build it with fibre and you get something that's going to last 50 years and is going to still have value decades from now.
Build it with anything else but fibre and that money is never going to be recovered.
I guess (and I've said this before) the core LIE behind Turnbull's rhetoric (and that of his acolites here) is the lie that states that the money spent on the MTM replaces the need to build fibre, ever. The thing that galls me is that Turnbull has never, ever come out and stated this lie publicly. He's never said "look, copper isn't just good enough for now, it'll be good enough for another 20 years". His hired stooges have at times tried to imply this.
It also galls me (and its why I have barely disguised contempt for certain people here) that the Liberal apologists here are, when its boiled down, saying "the copper will be good enough for 20 years". But they don't have the heart, conviction, or honesty to flat out say it.
Unless we continue to use the copper for 20 years, the MTM cannot recoup its multi tens of billions cost. In other words its money being written off. And if we do use the copper for another 20 years we'll be well past the stage of being ridiculed by third world countries.
Edit: Of course, that's never going to happen. For a host of reasons we will switch to fibre in the next few years regardless of who is in charge. The danger has always been that Turnbull will flog off NBNco (that's always been his plan) and then Telstra ditches the worthless copper and builds fibre. The value proposition for Telstra has always been about regaining monopoly pricing. We only need remember the way Telstra created 256K and 512K speed tiers on ADSL, or the prices it charged for South Brisbane fibre, or the sorts of returns Telstra was asking for when "negotiating" with the Howard government to realise where this is headed.
Artificial scarcity. 100Mbps plans sold at $80+ wholesale meaning closer to $200 retail. And at the other end, a government subsidised version of "homeline budget" that "only" costs $50/month and gives you a whopping 12Mbps and which the taxpayer picks up some of the tab for. You don't have to look far into Telstra's marketing history to think of even nastier surprises.
The more that NBNco sinks (loses) on VDSL, the less value the network itself will have and the more that Telstra will demand monopoly rights as a sweetener to the deal. That's ultimately the prize. Not the physical assets, but the right to charge what the market will bear, in perpetuity. Of course this doesn't bother some people, whose world view is that if you're of below average earnings you deserve your lot in life and your kids deserve it too.
TURNBULL SAYS NBN 'IS THE WAY TO GO', CANS HIS MTM AND APOLOGISES FOR IMPOSING IT
01 April 2016
In a surprise announcement, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull revealed today that his MTM will now be terminated, effective immediately. 'There's no doubt the original 93% FTTP NBN was the way to go', he said, 'so we'll be reverting to that as soon as the present MTM arrangements can be wound up.'
It's understood that the change in policy was decided after it was repeatedly pointed out to the PM that his reversion to the obsolete MTM was completely inconsistent with the recently announced initiative to make Australia more agile and innovative.
Mr Turnbull said he deeply regretted the vast waste of money resulting from his policy of aborting NBN and substituting his MTM, and he hoped Australian endusers would accept his humble apology for such hubristic misjudgement and move on.
_____________________________
Someone had to do that :)
Or, their network and copper is far better maintained and the runs much shorten given the geography is much much different?
The copper may well be better maintained, but the rest of the issues remain. Very few people get the maximum speed. I've seen VDSL cabinets in the middle of nowhere, where none of its users are likely to be getting great speeds. I can *see* my cabinet and I get several Mbps less than maximum, especially if any more neighbours get connected and the crosstalk has its way.
Meanwhile the FTTPers down the road get 300Mbps today and even more at a flick of the switch
Unless we continue to use the copper for 20 years, the MTM cannot recoup its multi tens of billions cost. In other words its money being written off. And if we do use the copper for another 20 years we'll be well past the stage of being ridiculed by third world countries.
The worst part is the Libs will blame this write off on Labor because they started the NBN, and people will believe it.
If the Liberal Party are not held to account for what they did to the NBN, the money wasted and the setbacks to the nation I think I might actually lose it.
If the Liberal Party are not held to account for what they did to the NBN
Too right.....not only from the point of view of NBN Build and the stupidity of trying to destroy FTTP from a global point of view but also there is so much evidence of extremely poor financial and economic management � supposedly the key strength of LNP historically. One might argue it is now 'fear' but....
Someone had to do that :)
But in order to pay for it the NBN had to increase the CVC charge to $35/Mbit.
And that's a problem not caused by Mal
And that's a problem not caused by Mal
Its not one thats fixed my Mal either.
Its also the least of our problems given how FKD the MTM is on so many levels.
But i wouldn't expect the likes of you nor your posse to focus on what really matters.
I note Turnbull is applying the same strategy he did with NBN to Federalism.....he wishes to destroy it
Not only that. His keen legal mind is using the 'distraction' of federal/state funding to draw attention away from the NBNCo/nbn� debate.
A master tactician at his very best.
TURNBULL SAYS NBN 'IS THE WAY TO GO', CANS HIS MTM AND APOLOGISES FOR IMPOSING IT
01 April 2016
YEP! .............................. IT'S THAT TIME OF THE YEAR AGAIN!
value investing.
The idea is to pick stocks with high intrinsic worth which are, for whatever reason, currently undervalued by other investors.
Buy low, sell high; realise a gain.
Economists call it picking the low-hanging fruit: the strategic policy choices that deliver the biggest social return for lowest cost.
Investments in our human capital offer the best returns around.
Investing in our most vulnerable kids remains the best social investment strategy around. Only a foolish investor would turn his back on it.
Makes you wonder how the current Federal Government digital/infrastructure investment in the NBN/MTM rates in delivering social, economic and political returns.
Nice one Jess.
The value proposition for Telstra has always been about regaining monopoly pricing. We only need remember the way Telstra created 256K and 512K speed tiers on ADSL, or the prices it charged for South Brisbane fibre, or the sorts of returns Telstra was asking for when "negotiating" with the Howard government to realise where this is headed.
This. It reminds me of when bigpond cable came out. Far better than dial up, offering speeds of 10mbps down and 1up. And what did they charge? 65 a month for 100meg. Whats the point of having that speed of you will go through it in an hour or so? Because the extra data was 40cents or so (from memory). PROFIT gouging... They have never cared about the end user. Ever. Just profit. 3 hour hold times for tech support. The number of days I wasted on hold because there was No other option. And this is where we are heading with MTM. Consumers being pantsed for corporate profit, and again being funded by the tax payer. The MSM is complicit by not directly breaking it all down and being in support of "democratic capitalism". They have vested interests. We need far far more transparency in government than ever. What shits me is that when it's all done the fibs will blame it all on labor for creating the nbn, having created another monopoly infrastructure, Telstra being the saving grace to fix it all up, and reframe the whole arguement to make them look great and none of the MSM will properly investigate as any decent journo should do. A la nick Ross. I truly worry for the future of Australia
Damn... I've got $89 for ADSL1 200GB, plus $29 on top for phone line..
You will find Telstra are advertising 'up to' 25Mb/s 200Gb data Free Testra Air wifi and phone I think for $89/mth
I get for $89/mth FTTP 100/40 500Gb and I get near enough to all of that 100/40 all day not best effort of the day which is a lot less than advertised.
I'm not bragging, just pointing out how exploitational Telstra are and stu[pid the FTTN/MTM strategy is.
Any updates on how the NBN is going in that ABC Facebook poll? Are they still pulling comments down
Seems they have unhidden them this morning.
Can't say if our how many have been deleted.
NBN forgot to put itself on that list.
The most expensive scam in Australia's history.
Seems they have unhidden them this morning.
Can't say if our how many have been deleted.
I don't use Facebook but they do have a hide/show posts function. I'm not sure on deleting posts that are not yours though.
I don't use Facebook but they do have a hide/show posts function. I'm not sure on deleting posts that are not yours though.
The account holder can delete any comment they choose
With the debacle over tax policy today, and following on from the mess of the MTM, it is clear that Malcolm Turnbull has been performing the work of two men for quite some time.
Unfortunately, those men are Laurel and Hardy.
(Apologies to Ronnie Corbett)
...or Abbott and Costello
Nah, they're now out of date.
More recently it appears that by far the 'funniest' team for spectacular own goals on the NBN/MTM was, is, and always will be Abbott and Turnbull. How could anyone hope to surpass their combination of technical ignorance, crass incompetence and totally unfounded self-confidence?
Live chat midday today re #nbn coms industry with myself, @jodiesangster @SenatorLudlam @deniseshrivell https://blab.im/7y33a
I'm watching this on replay. Some quality issues, and Senator Ludlam had to overcome parliamentary firewall issues.
Effective Quality of Service on internet connections would help chats like this.
I'm watching this on replay. Some quality issues, and Senator Ludlam had to overcome parliamentary firewall issues.
Effective Quality of Service on internet connections would help chats like this.
Yep, look at that lag. ADSL doesn't even cut it for these basic teleconferences.
How could anyone hope to surpass their combination of technical ignorance, crass incompetence and totally unfounded self-confidence?
Beware the snake oil salesman performing three thimble tricks.....
He may well believe he has had the last laugh on NBN (we hope not) but don't be surprised the next step with tax will be ...the Labor premiers and Shorten have forced his hand to make upward changes to the income tax schedule....etc etc. � not his fault you know...and NBN was Abbott's fault too....
Got to laugh that the $80B was "never going to happen and just a figment...."
For goodness sake has Turnbull no shame ...? Does he really think we are that stupid he can just say anything and we would believe it...?
Got to laugh that the $80B was "never going to happen and just a figment..."
Just like the oh-so-very carefully tailored election campaign statement that the NBN 'would cost $94bn, if not a lot more.'
A confident assertion which evaporated once the campaign was finished, and hasn't been heard since.
For goodness sake has Turnbull no shame ...?
You know the answer to that.
With the debacle over tax policy today
another fully thought out policy of Turnbull, he seems to excel in these.
Just this time he had some people that have been playing the game longer than him.
Pity that there weren't any around when he wheeled out MTM
Hmm if it was a head injury it may have been fixed wireless roof fall?
Well I guess we'll have to wait for more details.
Sad news
Well I guess we'll have to wait for more details.
Sad news
Very sad news and one for OH&S to sort out appropriately
Very sad news and one for OH&S to sort out appropriately
thoughts go out to the family of the dead worker
There�s no denying Australia faces unique challenges in the rollout given the difficult and vast terrain of the country coupled with a mandate to service every Australian � something the company is quick to point out.
�Likening Australia�s broadband network roll out to a roll out in a country the size of Singapore is not comparable,� the spokesperson said. �We have only 24 million people but in one of the largest countries in the world.�
I've heard this line trotted out before by nbn when they claimed to be world leaders due to density. Quick reminder to them that they may be world leaders on Wireless/Satellite, but our significant urban concentration and density isn't that unique.
I find a certain degree of irony in their comparison to Singapore. Singapore is very high density, primarily made up of MDU's. MDU's being the locations that NBN are repeatedly stating as the most problematic and difficult to deploy to with Fibre.
the Malcolm turnbull skit 93% ftth is an april fool joke, When nbn co is still pusing his fttx/xx bullshit Policy..
Malcolm likely on said 93% to shut everyone up For someone like Malcolm to even sit in a communications chair in the first place because nobody wanted it, and the underlining FACT that he invests in Tech stocks both within australia past, present and future..
he already bloody knew it political suicide to ignore the 93% and already knew if he bothered to read past the 1st three pages of the commissioned report in to broadband as whole back in 93 which was latter cited in 2003/4 of the state of the communications network which has been piss poor since before the first t1 float before the corporate name change..
bigger question i have is does telstra actually own its ducts or do they own the access covers, I have yet see telstra pay in land taxes have you??? last time i checked telstra only leases 90% of its network in land value even if it is a 99 year lease arrangement..
I honestly think if the 93% isn't an april fool's joke I believe Malcolm is running scared shitless because he well know's he has a major conflict interest, socially, politically and personally and he don't want a royal commission citing his actions in the fttn affair and the puclics wasted to fibre to ther copper interconnects fiasco..
I honestly think if the 93% isn't an april fool's joke
There is 0 chance that Turnbull would even consider switching to a build with more fibre. A more plausible April fool's bit would be them scrapping FTTN in favor of a FTTdp rollout. But that won't happen either.
A more plausible April fool's bit would be them scrapping FTTN in favor of a FTTdp rollout. But that won't happen either.
Exactly. There would have been lots of gullable fools that would have swallowed that election year build-up fodder! As it is its got the fools tripping over themselves thinkings its some how even remotely possible/being considered. Anyone with half a brain knows it has two chances of being real, none and bucklies!
A spokesperson for the NBN has refuted the notion that Australia�s declining competitiveness in internet speeds is an indictment of the current NBN strategy.
�What the Akamai Report tells us is that we are on the right track � to focus on the fastest deployment we can to move Australia up that list. It is a fast global pace and we need to complete the rollout of the NBN network as soon as possible,�
I find this statement funny. So if I was to use this statement and apply it to something else, education for example:
'It's okay if my grades slip even further because I'm on the right track. I am on track in speeding up and building my career. I'm on track so fast, and I can definitely complete my education and achieve my career to be working with and in the biggest best employer in the world namely, McDonalds, as soon as possible'
Genius....I would put a freakin' meme in here if I was allowed to.
It used to be that April Fool's jokes were absurd in nature. Now they are sensible compared to the absurd reality of the NBN.
Until they get to the FTTDP powering and weight ISSUE sorted it is a great white elephant on the nener never deployment listing, ah droll is life laughing at the idots in Canberra,, I see Malcolm the we little boy has been is still dribbling bullshit , who did they ask I bet most of those survey's I bet came from the xerox machine in malcolms former office, and I guarantee you the people who were didn't have a bloody clue the what nbn should be vs what is claimed now as nbn..
I wonder if the little fact got out that malcolm in general sits within a conflict of interest within the whole fibre debate given fact that he had some form of investment in telecommunications within the time he sat opposite in as opposition comms minister, though we must not talk about that....
and we already knew he at time held shares within an australian ISP and also sat on its board of directors at 1 stage or another..
Has everyone seen that LNP (election mode) 'STEM' TVC, with the goal-oriented kids ?
Rather flies in the face of the LNP's NBN efforts.
Talk about wasting tax payer dollars...
You can really see Malcolm stumble and can't even put a solid argument together. His still defending the nonsense. "Server, serve, Survey?" lol, a rigged one?
If you had ADSL and went to VDSL of course you might think its god speed, but its not. Its already obsolete by today's standards.
Yet another negative News Corp story.
Oh, how the tide is turning.
Not looking good, Mal.
What's most interesting about this article is the choice of words for it's clickbait headline in the top part of the current news.com.au front page
Is the NBN now a national joke?
Comedy or tragedy?
Joking and headline trivialising about an up to or >$100B project ($ that will only grow when you take in whole of lifecycle costs (including the costs that have been shifted back onto residential and business customers direct from NBNCo or via increased RSP charges), in terms of anything but
- reckless financial and economic management
- reckless infrastructure management
- reckless asset management
- reckless risk mismanagement
- reckless political management
is in itself a tragedy.
With the owners and senior management of this trivialising "joke" headline, News Corp laughing their heads off at the benefits their organisation get's from this tragedy, in reducing and delaying the severity of a range of threats to their legacy businesses and business model. Whilst at the same time providing News Corp increased opportunities to gain physical and/or political power and control of key and strategic parts of Australia's Broadband Infrastructure at some point in the future.
With Australia's overseas nation state competitors (rest of the world), laughing their heads off at the competitive advantage Australia has just gifted them in enabling them to more easily attract and retain strategic human, strategic business assets, and their related, intellectual property, increased GDP, growth, tax revenue, productivity, cultural enrichment, standard of living, job and other opportunities they offer.
It is noted that the article "reports" (he said, she said) but does not provide "opinion and analysis".
For News Corp to only (or mostly only) report on such a huge and important and far-reaching project, and not provide detailed and balanced opinion and analysis (or open the article to reader comments) on the NBN/MTM/nbn, is in itself both a joke and a tragedy of epic proportions.
One could easily create a bot to do the he said she said reporting and posting. Even the opinion part could be handled by a bot. A bot embedded with the DNA of it's controllers and handlers.
anything less than 100/1000/10000/40000 capacity is a waste of time...
Its a shame that organisation didn't adopt a sensible position back in 2013.
Yes, where was all thees big guns when all this FTTN shit started to be set up, should have been nipped in the bud.
Probably to busy down the pub.
Yes, where was all thees big guns when all this FTTN shit started to be set up,
I think it's a lot to do with foxtel . Telstra serving their share and foxtel losing customers.
Murdoch could be pushing for a rethink on nbn technology choice policy , without actually condemning his favorite lnp.
Turnbull had to back down on coag funding, he may just have to back down on nbn policy too.
Who knows. Interesting times.
Murdoch could be pushing for a rethink on nbn technology choice policy , without actually condemning his favorite lnp.
It will be blatantly obvious when Murdoch is pushing for a rethink on nbn technology. You'll see editorial in his media on it, not just reporting.
Noting that the official Murdoch NBN policy is still the
https://ipa.org.au/public
69 Immediately halt construction of the National Broadband Network and privatise any sections that have already been built
With it's position at number 69 not representing it's rank of importance, but secretly representing a number that in the meaning of life is considered by many to be of great importance, pleasure, and eagerly awaited.
Until then one could be mistaken for getting the impression that Murdoch is considering the benefits of a temporary change in Federal Government to both get rid of the Turnbull threats and provide an opportunity to further pause, delay and slow down the implementation of improved broadband in Australia.
A quicker rolled out MTM/NBN is indisputably even more of a threat to Murdoch's legacy businesses and business model, than a slower to roll out more cost effective and value for money MTM/NBN.
Full-Metal-Alchemist writes...
spokesperson for the NBN has refuted the notion that Australia�s declining competitiveness in internet speeds is an indictment of the current NBN strategy.
�What the Akamai Report tells us is that we are on the right track � to focus on the fastest deployment we can to move Australia up that list. It is a fast global pace and we need to complete the rollout of the NBN network as soon as possible,�
I find this statement funny.
I find it absurd!! LNP/NBN Co perception management factory at the extreme end...
It's a bit like on Insiders today Henderson from Sydney Intitute (LNP apologists/think tank) promoting Turnbull as 'the great negotiator' � we've seen how the exact opposite (similar to above statement) is the reality when it comes to Turnbull/NBN CO negotiations...on behalf of taxpayers. Same with blame game on states for his failure on income tax shift where Turnbull doesn't have the courage to consider tax rises but states should.
We should all redefine our brain processes to recognise that the opposite of what is said is reality....
...the choice of words for it's clickbait headline in the top part of the current news.com.au front page
Is the NBN now a national joke?
Comedy or tragedy?
News Corp laughing their heads off at the benefits their organisation get's from this tragedy, ....providing News Corp increased opportunities to gain physical and/or political power and control of key and strategic parts of Australia's Broadband Infrastructure at some point in the future.
ahhh!! just sell off NBN Co and the problem is solved, its only taxpayers money after all and it is so much in their interest to do so... /S
I think its plausible that the Foxtel people have finally seen the writing on the wall and realise they need to move to IPTV.
I agree, satellites are not cost effective these days or in the future. For foxtel to bring 4k, 8k and so on they will need something decent to deliver them. Even 1080p content is bitrate limited on foxtel now (due to the lack of transponders) they can't add more HD content because they will either need to shut down existing channels or again cut bandwidth to existing HD channels.
Effectively they just need to invest in a next generation box, and their delivery network will be built for free (FTTP) no outlay, no ongoing costs (apart from the boxes) you'd have the wonder who advised Murdoch to destroy FTTP in the papers when he should have been pushing it's agenda.
I had a look at the Cannington FTTN rollout thread, it's been delayed RFS for 6 months in some locations which is terrible. This obviously has a knock on affect elsewhere
Edit: Plus universal access, no installation costs no callouts for dish re-alingments etc etc etc
Effectively they just need to invest in a next generation box, and their delivery network will be built for free (FTTP) no outlay, no ongoing costs (apart from the boxes) you'd have the wonder who advised Murdoch to destroy FTTP in the papers when he should have been pushing it's agenda.
I honestly believe that one of the reasons that Murdoch wanted to destroy FTTP was it was a plank that Labor could run with and if he hadn't promoted the "cheaper and faster" MTM then Labor might have just snuck in, or at least caused the Liberal's to have to form a minority government, which they said they would never do.
Destroy FTTP was one of the means to destroy the Labor party, now they News business realises (I think they even believed before the election that it may be needed) it it actually needs I decent IPTV delivery medium.
As it would seem even with the crappy one we have that the likes of Netflix and Stan have decimated the Foxtel model, where some believed that the crappy system may protect Foxtel.
So now they are starting to push for something other than FTTN.
Was wondering if backhaul is being upgraded in the areas that are getting fttn installed?
I'm still probably 18 months away from getting anything, well the roll out schedule that was released 6 months ago or so, said 2017 for build to start.
But i'm so fed up with congestion here. And I sure saying anything to Telstra is a waste of time. But was thinking if the backhaul doesn't get a major upgrade, then I can see things being so much worse with everyone in the area getting better speeds
I had a look at the Cannington FTTN rollout thread, it's been delayed RFS for 6 months in some locations which is terrible. This obviously has a knock on affect elsewhere
Does anyone have the data available that would allow allow direct comparison of current build ststus and what would have been if original NBN Plan was implemented...without slow down. If I recall speadsheets I saw pre 2013 election they went out to 2018 for FTTP... (?)
It will be blatantly obvious when Murdoch is pushing for a rethink on nbn technology.
I agree as this was just a token mention to appease people like myself and others who believe FTTP does not suit his present business model .
Fast upload speeds which FTTP would have given us did not suit Murdoch IMO .
Fast upload speeds would allow streaming between individuals and businesses which us Aussies should not have.
Has everyone seen that LNP (election mode) 'STEM' TVC, with the goal-oriented kids ?
You mean the one where they name jobs of the future with all techno sounding words thrown in like:
Tele-remote surgeon
Fashion technologist
Virtual reality tour company
3D-printing architect
Cyber-forensic scientist
Holographic animator
Which will rely on Science, Technology and Maths....
Hmmmm do you think maybe a high speed reliable and ubiquitous communication infrastructure would be needed or at the least of great benefit for it?
Seems not, apparently the "Ideas Boom" is so innovative that it doesn't need a high speed reliable and ubiquitous communications infrastructure to facilitate it.
So now they are starting to push for something other than FTTN.
Evidence please?
Does anyone have the data available that would allow allow direct comparison of current build ststus and what would have been if original NBN Plan was implemented...without slow down.
No but that would be some great data to see, as we known as they neared the end of the FTTP rollout phase they were getting it done quicker than anticipated. I'd be enjoying FTTP if the libs were not in power. Now my area is scheduled to start this quarter
Evidence please?
The myriad of news corp publications over recent weeks calling FTTN a dud? Or the ongoing reporting on how bad the FTTN actually is by news corp sources papers/online
It will be blatantly obvious when Murdoch is pushing for a rethink on nbn technology.
Just as obvious as the Murdoch position on NBN, and now MTM, has been. The current MTM structure, with Foxtel partner Telstra in a box seat, could be broadly seen as being in Murdoch's overall interest.
Perhaps now that the structure has changed away from the highly scalable NBN to the limited MTM, there may be pressure to upgrade aspects of it, so as to maximise effectiveness for Foxtel delivery.
And of course News Corp has diverse comms interests apart from Foxtel; they may be pressuring both the prime minister and communications minister to get favourable regulatory outcomes in other areas of comms policy unrelated to the MTM.
Noting that the official Murdoch NBN policy is still
Not necessarily at all. The current form of MTM will be good for several parts of News Corp operations, so in a choice between company self-interest and think-tank waffle, it may not be hard to see who wins.
You mean the one where they name jobs of the future with all techno sounding words
Yes, *that* TV ad'.
It's almost as if someone at the LNP is "extracting the urine".
Evidence please?
I believe that they number of articles coming out of the NEWS stable mentioning criticism of FTTN is a start of a campaign, before this recent series of events all articles were critical of FTTP and Labor's plans and were promoting the wonders of MTM
of course I could be totally wrong
But wIth NEWS Corp being involved in large scale fibre rollouts in the UK, through SKY, it is obvious that the business knew that high speed internet was needed to expand their customer base outside their locked in ecosystem
I believe that they number of articles coming out of the NEWS stable mentioning criticism of FTTN is a start of a campaign, before this recent series of events all articles were critical of FTTP and Labor's plans and were promoting the wonders of MTM
Key opinion writers in News Ltd this week look to have put some warning shots across the bow. It includes the most recent by Dennis Shanahan which talked up Labor management (here). If the editorials appear, then the ship has changed course, and I'd expect nbn to play some traction in it, particularly now that Foxtel ISP has launched and their business focus by competition shifts to IP demand.
For News Corp to only (or mostly only) report on such a huge and important and far-reaching project, and not provide detailed and balanced opinion and analysis (or open the article to reader comments) on the NBN/MTM/nbn, is in itself both a joke and a tragedy of epic proportions.
And what was News saying/doing before the last election? Happy then to stir their sludge in the opposite direction. Whatever suits their business plan.
of course I could be totally wrong
But wIth NEWS Corp being involved in large scale fibre rollouts in the UK, through SKY, it is obvious that the business knew that high speed internet was needed to expand their customer base outside their locked in ecosystem
Couldn't we just throw them into prison and save the taxpayers of Australia millions.
For News Corp to only (or mostly only) report on such a huge and important and far-reaching project, and not provide detailed and balanced opinion and analysis
There is a limit to how far even the best editor can skew the truth for political advantage.
When the truth is so obvious that blind Freddie can see it � as in this case � the truth must come out or the paper will start to look like a laughing stock. The politicians need an honest media to keep them honest and that is often not the case sadly.
Show me these Stooges writes...
Couldn't we just throw them into prison and save the taxpayers of Australia millions.
Pretty hard to get them convicted of anything.
Phone hacking and Pay tv hacking come to mind.
Show me these Stooges writes...
Whatever suits their business plan.
With no consideration for the Australian public.
There is a limit to how far even the best editor can skew the truth for political advantage.
That's pretty true � most people are good at using personal BS detectors. An unfortunate exception might be any NBN topics, where some waffly techno-babble and a charming pic of an old couple sadly contemplating their (allegedly) about-to-be-extinct rose bed, can add up to a pretty powerful effect.
politicians need an honest media to keep them honest and that is often not the case sadly.
It seems the number one rule of most media operators is to look after number one.
NBN/MTM stories or anything else, including much of their high-profile 'public interest campaigning', tend to be secretly driven by that same number one rule anyway.
of course I could be totally wrong
I think you are close to the mark. What scares the conservative press is that they've supported the MTM without question, and now it really is looking like the emperor has no clothes, they have to sink the boot in to retain their credibility. Doesn't take blind Freddy to realise that we went from a generational change in comms to an incremental change, for about the same budget and the same timeframe...and with an even bigger bill soon to follow to move to that generational change...
Show me these Stooges writes...
And what was News saying/doing before the last election? Happy then to stir their sludge in the opposite direction. Whatever suits their business plan.
I think Murdoch was a fan of Abbot (who he could control). Less sure of Turnbull. As we have seen from the UK Murdoch here very close to individuals
Lightning bb a threat to nbn?
Maybe not..
http://blog.jxeeno.com/lightning-broadband-shenanigans/
As for real world performance? One of the leading �point-to-point� Wi-Fi hardware providers, Ubiquiti, claims its NanoStation M5 (5.8GHz) Wireless Bridge & WiFi AP can deliver 150 Mbps. With a beamwidth of anywhere between 42 and 60 degrees, you�ll have to share the same 150 Mbps bandwidth with everyone on the same sector as you.
Not exactly lightning speed as soon as you have a dozen or so people on the network during peak times �
Ken Tsang � ?@jxeeno
Friendly reminder that #nbn has now officially missed its target of updating the "3 year construction plan" quarterly by 3 months.
Z
http://www.nbnco.com.au/
Friendly reminder that #nbn has now officially missed its target of updating the "3 year construction plan" quarterly by 3 months.
So now we're waiting for two reports?
Friendly reminder that #nbn has now officially missed its target of updating the "3 year construction plan" quarterly by 3 months.
And tomorrow we'll get told yet again how they have and continue to meet all their targets.....
And tomorrow we'll get told yet again how they have and continue to meet all their targets.....
And how they are being more transparent. Say one thing and do the opposite... What's that term again?
Also note that on the last 3 year plan, the data was actually a month and a half old as well. We might get a new plan with data as of 1 Dec 2015, if we're lucky!
Why did NBN have a freeze 6months before election in 2013?
Could the same thing be happening now, that's why the reports are 'late' because everything is on hold. Only sites that started builds are getting finished, all build preps are on hold?
Now that he has seen that it does nothing of the kind, he is waking up and realising that now the only way forward for Pay TV in Australia is UHD delivered over the Internet.
His part-owned UK operation seems to have got that memo long ago � Sky is one of the UK's largest ISPs (and one of the largest customers of BT's infrastructure arm), and they (along with another big ISP) have built their own FTTP network (1Gbit symmetric), from scratch, in one UK city.
They've just released a new TV box that is supposed to do a much better job of combining satellite + IP than ever before
His part-owned UK operation seems to have got that memo long ago � Sky is one of the UK's largest ISPs (and one of the largest customers of BT's infrastructure arm), and they (along with another big ISP) have built their own FTTP network (1Gbit symmetric), from scratch, in one UK city.
So Murdoch would be in full detailed possession of the real insider information of the costing/profit of such a investment.
Swift1 Only By Fibre writes...
So Murdoch would be in full detailed possession of the real insider information of the costing/profit of such a investment.
It certainly proves that the internet isn't a huge killer for his business model. BTW I got it wrong, the Sky FTTP service is "only" 1Gbit down, 100Mbit up with other slower speeds also available
I believe Foxtel has routinely imported technologies and platforms that first debuted with Sky � so maybe such revolutionary new thinking is on its way to the Australian operation
Could the same thing be happening now, that's why the reports are 'late' because everything is on hold.
We are not in caretaker mode yet. The DD hasn't yet taken place..
Swift1 Only By Fibre writes...
But it could be in U turn prep mode.
Doesn't excuse failure to provide reports.
Doesn't excuse failure to provide reports.
You are correct on that I apologize for that, I note the the LNP are generally as transparent to scrutiny as a sheet of Copper their favorite metal.
It certainly proves that the internet isn't a huge killer for his business model.
Actually it is a massive threat to his existing business models. His previous attempts to push traditional models to internet models have been expensive failures.
Micropayment for news items
Foxtel VOD
Australian paywall (before deep linking protection, and some after..)
He does realise that the change will happen, the support for Abbott just helped him control that change, and ensure legislation was changed to support his future models. (media ownership, 'netflix' tax)
Now he can see a working example of his future business model, he needs FTTP to go from 19% 'cable' coverage (the amount of AU houses covered by Foxtel cable before MTM discussions increased it to almost 33%) to 93%+
Of course he still seems upset that Turnbull knifed Abbott.
Now he can see a working example of his future business model, he needs FTTP to go from 19% 'cable' coverage (the amount of AU houses covered by Foxtel cable before MTM discussions increased it to almost 33%) to 93%+
Of course he still seems upset that Turnbull knifed Abbott.
well it was possible that with Abbott still in charge and a reshuffle with a move of Mal from the Comms portfolio could have seen a change in roll out types with Tony saying
"I was advised by Mal that this was the best way forward, he should have known, after all he practically invented the internet in Australia"
Bit hard for Mal to claim a similar thing as he is personally involved and it would totally undermine his credibility to admit that he acted purely on Abbot's instructions and against his thoughts on the best way forward in his portfolio area
The Un-Australian strikes again!
They literally have nothing left to report on against the Labor NBN.
Poor Annabel HepworthI looks such the fool
http://www.telecompaper.com/
Little bit off topic, but a good look at why the NBN must die against Foxtel.
(The Dutch version)
Mal that this was the best way forward, he should have known, after all he practically invented the internet in Australia"
This is the kind of BS spin we have to listen to.
No the guy didn't invent the internet in Australia. He introduced it to Australia. There is a big difference.
AFAIK, the internet was developed in the US by academics and potentially the Military had something else going.
Mal just setup an ISP called Ozemail here. Abbott was the clown sprouting out this nonsense. The whole thing is reflective of their party and Mal continuing the legacy.
I really can't wait until they announce an election date and get turfed out.
More leaks..
The two internal NBN documents obtained by The Australian Financial Review combine to show that NBN's expectations for the completion of numerous parts of the FTTN network by April 1 were missed, with some areas delayed by as much as 87 days.
['The news will provide more ammunition for opponents of the government's approach to broadband, which sacrificed the superior performance of Labor's planned fibre to the premise model, in favour of a policy it said would deliver improved services faster and cheaper.'
The March document refers to the same FTTN areas as NBN's November plan, showing that all 40 FTTN areas have been delayed, and none were ready by last Friday as planned.
Unsurprised. There are 2 nodes here in 4ROT-0x that techs have been wiring up non-stop for 2 weeks, including both public holidays of Easter
The Un-Australian strikes again!
They literally have nothing left to report on against the Labor NBN.
Poor Annabel HepworthI looks such the fool
Communications Minister Mitch Fifield is taunting Labor to detail its policy on the National Broadband Network as work progresses on a new technology that could take fibre to household driveways.
Well that's not true.. It is only being done where long distances proclude fttn . And also includes fttb.
They are not planning on using fttdp as an alternative to fttn.
Mal just setup an ISP called Ozemail here.
He didn't even do that. Ozemail was already a going concern... Mal simply invested money in the company, which was nicely timed, and rode the internet boom to increasing his wealth portfolio.
He didn't even do that. Ozemail was already a going concern... Mal simply invested money in the company,
I suppose Liberals can say that Mal invented FTTH in France/Spain ?!? :)
Mal simply invested money in the
Our money in MTM
and rode the internet boom to increasing his wealth portfolio.
The internet "Doom MTM" decreasing the mug's (us) Australians wealth.
Morrow & NBN are saying they will have 1 in almost 4 premises RFS by June 30 2016.
It looks like they are on track for RFS of 2 million very soon, however I believe the total no of prem's is 12 million or so. So in order to be at 1 in almost 4, they have to have another almost 1 million prem's ready in 3 mths. This leads me to believe they will just switch over most Telstra HFC's to NBN by end of June, though they havent announced any plans to do this recently...
Mal simply invested money in the company, which was nicely timed,
Like a lot of lawyers and accountants, MT was just flat out lucky in being within the orbit of Packer/ACP. How many people get a 100 fold return in 5 years. Of course, because he did so well he now thinks he's a major league enterpreneur and visionary.
He introduced it to Australia. There is a big difference.
no he didn't, he invested in a company that had its roots about 10 years before he put money into it, he was very late onto the scene in reality. Ozemail and corporate predecessors had been running well before he became involved
It looks like they are on track for RFS of 2 million very soon, however I believe the total no of prem's is 12 million or so. So in order to be at 1 in almost 4, they have to have another almost 1 million prem's ready in 3 mths. This leads me to believe they will just switch over most Telstra HFC's to NBN by end of June, though they havent announced any plans to do this recently...
If they can pull it off (get 1M prems for zero field work) that will look very cute (sugar hit) until the Dec 16 report on revenue sets up the trend.
Thereafter maintaining the implied run rate to close out the remaining 9M prems whilst generating some $ will be tricky.
Classic short term management with the wrong KPI's ... solve tomorrows problems in a months time by kicking the can down the road for as long as possible � then blame someone else!
https://delimiter.com.au/201
From Renai on the leaked documents
Of course, because he did so well he now thinks he's a major league enterpreneur and visionary.
That's what he and his benefators want us to believe anyway. That's the latest in a string of false narratives the Liberal Party have needed to sugar coat their true agenda.
I just hope some of the facts about the NBN pre and post the Coalition Government can cut through the spin and utter lies, especially during election time.
They need to be held accountable.
Mal simply invested money in the company, which was nicely timed, and rode the internet boom to increasing his wealth portfolio.
It wasn't even his money. A politician mate borrowed it for him.
He's really lucky to find someone to buy it at the ridiculous price they did. Ozemail was leaking money like a sieve. The company that bought it was buying up all sorts of ISPs to try and hide the corrupt accounting that eventually ended the company a year or so later.
In fact that's what Malcolm did in the company, tried to find someone stupid enough to buy it before it went broke. Before he found the desperate Wordcom, he was packaging it up to sell to US celebs as an investment and couldn't get a bite.
We are not in caretaker mode yet. The DD hasn't yet taken place..
One notes the application by Border Forces (Dept of Immigration?) has made application to Fair Work to stop Unions from striking fro THREE MONTHS � must be an election pending? Clearly a political manoeuvre.
So expectation that any info on FTTN/MTM failure and spectacular delays (already 6 months delays within 6 months of starting...good planning � not, if any?) are in the same vein � political manoeuvring for DD election � increasingly obvious it is a set up to blame Senate cross bench for DD and States for not raising taxes.
This leads me to believe they will just switch over most Telstra HFC's to NBN by end of June, though they havent announced any plans to do this recently...
Good luck with that one! Telstra are scrambling to upgrade their HFC network with the new Arris CMTS, in some/most areas they have to run multiple down-times across several months before they then move to another 2-3 months to kick-off D1.1 cable users to clear the spectrum. And this is the easy part (same customers, same service)!
The fun will begin when NBN attempt to do a real upgrade (more customers, improved upstream, and wholesale access). I guess having a Telstra HFC fit for purpose (the Telstra upgrades happening now) will help but as with FTTN there are bound to be gremlins which will also create delays in the HFC, but these we won't know about until later this year.
Of course, because he did so well he now thinks he's a major league enterpreneur and visionary.
I would not call Malcolm Turnbull an entrepreneur or visionary, he simply benefited from the Internet bubble as an investor. What did Malcolm contributed to the Telecom Industry that was visionary? After he became Telecom Minister he was tasked with destroying the NBN.
No idea why the Ozemail Wikipedia article is made part of a Malcolm Turnbull series. That is probably the reason why Wikipedia is not to be used as academic source.
Would not call Simon Hackett and Michael Malone entrepreneurs or visionaries either, they were simply early adopters during the Internet bubble and benefited that way. If any contribution was made to them to the Telecom Industry then it was mostly definitely destroyed once they sold their shares to TPG.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Destroying, it seems to be a recurring word in our Industry. Fact is though that when you are capable of making personal financial gain, it doesn't make you a entrepreneur or visionary individual.
It doesn't mean you deliver anything to the common benefit of Australia either. It just makes people personal rich plus the authority to call other people "the chicken army". Or you start to talk about flying and Tesla cars. To make yourself relevant and more important than the average Australian.
[Edit: Added link, fixed up some spelling]
wonder if it is an underlying nbn� issue or an RSP one, but with NTDs needing "rewiring" it would seem to be at least partly at teh nbn� level
whrl.pl/ReAEvw
"Two weeks ago some tech from NBNCo rocked up and 'rewired' our NTDs � no forewarning and took us offline for a couple of hours. While totally unacceptable, we grinned and moved on.
Though now that 'rewired' NTD went offline, taking three connections with it."
wonder if it is an underlying nbn� issue or an RSP one
Worry, really start worrying, it will become progressively worse for the remainder of this year. We don't have one problem at hand anymore, not 10, but many more.
Think about plastic bags and duct tape and you got the correct impression of our Telecom Industry.
Also there is not something as NBN business service with RSPs.
wonder if it is an underlying nbn� issue or an RSP one
Worry, really start worrying, it will become progressively worse for the remainder of this year. We don't have one problem at hand anymore, not 10, but many more.
Think about plastic bags and duct tape and you got the correct impression of our Telecom Industry.
Also there is not something as a NBN business service. Because it is advertised like that, it is called like that, doesn't make it a NBN business service. It is simply a residential NBN service with a few added benefits (if any).
Much the same that we call FTTN, a super-fast broadband service. :)
Think about plastic bags and duct tape and you got the correct impression of our Telecom Industry.
please don't tell me they have reverted to plastic bags on the FTTP build already, although I guess it will be a bit hard to get a fibre signal through a couple of "scotchies"
The Un-Australian strikes again!
This is behind a paywall for me (maybe a good thing for my sanity?). I am sure I know the crux of it though. Here are some comments from Mitch Fifield from a different article:
"Labor don't have an NBN plan or an NBN policy and are still running away from the mess that was the Conroy NBN," the minister said.
"All Labor can say is there should be more fibre. But they can't say where it would be, when it would be, what the additional cost would be. Labor can't even say how their approach would differ from the Coalition's multi-technology approach. The truth is, Labor have crab-walked away from a full fibre network � they just won't admit it."
I think his plan is to try to paint Labor into a corner. If Labor try to do their 93% fibre plan, it means overbuilding current MTM areas and expensive and time consuming renegotiation of contracts (as we saw with LNP). The LNP will be able to do cost analysis and say it will cost 1 trillion dollars (or whatever large number they come up with) and this will play in to their narrative of Labor's reckless spending. If Labor take a more pragmatic approach of doing FTTP for any new sites and honoring existing contracts, LNP can accuse them of abandoning their original proposal and embracing the MTM.
Whatever Labor do it is going to need to be well planned and require good salesmanship. One thing they will have going for them if they get the plan right, is they will have the support of a lot of the internet community, which can be a powerful allie. Labor found out during the debacle of mandatory internet filtering, that when you annoy large sections of the online community, it means you lose the ability to try to engage with them during the election campaign without getting a lot of negative comments coming back (even if the topic has nothing to do with the NBN).
Mitch Fifield's job is damage control. They do not want the NBN as a big election issue as they know it is a vote loser any way you look at it.
please don't tell me
I know an Estate that drops off the Internet (over all RSPs) on a regular basis.
Morrow & NBN are saying they will have 1 in almost 4 premises RFS by June 30 2016.
It looks like they are on track for RFS of 2 million very soon, however I believe the total no of prem's is 12 million or so. So in order to be at 1 in almost 4, they have to have another almost 1 million prem's ready in 3 mths. This leads me to believe they will just switch over most Telstra HFC's to NBN by end of June, though they havent announced any plans to do this recently...
yes and that of course then locks in NBNCo to pay for all maintenance on the entire Telstra HFC network or pay Telstra compensation.
RFS, which the Libs kicked Labor over, is still being used as a metric I see.
Large swathes of 2WOY-04-xx are still unserviceable, although called RFS, they are still installing some of teh fibre links for heavens sake.
nbn� asked to be able to declare individual ADAs as serviceable, but now it seems they don't like that as it may show more of the actual truth
Heck, turn on Skymuster and you have RFSed about 400,000 premises, doesn't mater that only a handfull are actually connected, nice jump in numbers for the "chest beating" announcements though
Morrow & NBN are saying they will have 1 in almost 4 premises RFS by June 30 2016.
From which a minuscule amount of RFS premises on FTTN and the remaining massive amount on NBNv1. When we take active premises into consideration, the minuscule amount on FTTN only becomes smaller and the massive amount on NBNv1 only becomes bigger. :)
Just spent a few days on my brothers farm outside of gore � deep south New Zealand. He gets better 4G at his house in the hills outside of gore than I do in Darra, 15 min from Brisbane CBD.
Spoke a bit with my other Brother down from Wellington � he raved about how ubiquitous internet connectivity (my words not his, but basically what he meant) had improved his Sole Owner business (House Security and Medical alarms). He has high speed fibre at home and a high quota phone plan with it, with his wife and kids included. Keeps all his docs etc on onedrive sync'd between his desktop, surface pro and android phone. No longer goes home to check for faxes etc, just gets and closes jobs via email while he's travelling between clients, who mostly have reliable internet now to.
This is was the NBN was supposed to do for Oz, the opportunities for small business are amazing.
Mitch Fifield's job is damage control. They do not want the NBN as a big election issue as they know it is a vote loser any way you look at it
Hes trying to get ALP to table their NBN policy before the election is called..
Not going to happen. They want to keep it under wraps until the campaign is under way..
But it does show how scared they are of the NBN becoming an Election issue.
...Still waiting for this fully costed, ready to go plan...
Hes trying to get ALP to table their NBN policy before the election is called..
Not going to happen. They want to keep it under wraps until the campaign is under way..
Do you know off the top of your head at what point in 2013 that the LNP released their "fully costed" broadband policy?
Do you know off the top of your head at what point in 2013 that the LNP released their "fully costed" broadband policy?
Well here is their original wonderful policy. Not sure of the exact date in 2013 this was released.
https://www.liberal.org.au/f
Hes trying to get ALP to table their NBN policy before the election is called..
I wondering if it would be smarter politics for Labor to release early rather than let the LNP wedge them. Something generic like restart FTTP, maybe with FTTdp were it makes sense.
I guess the problem is the complete lack of access to nbn financials.
guess the problem is the complete lack of access to nbn financials.
I guess they can just take the 2013 LNP approach. Get it costed at under $30 Billion and then if you win power you can just increase it as required (and also come up with an over-inflated cost estimate of the other side's plan).
"so um yeah we fked up..
the most cost-effective way for taxpayers. The rollout of FTTN is key to achieving this goal.
oh so now it's "cost effective" rather than cheapest?
If they can pull it off (get 1M prems for zero field work) that will look very cute (sugar hit) until the Dec 16 report on revenue sets up the trend.
These mobs will pull off anything, since they don't provide transparency or accountability, they can waffle on and make up the numbers. Its not like they havn't already done so with existing numbers.
2 million homes RFS, most of them came online when labor was running the NBN.
I wondering if it would be smarter politics for Labor to release early rather than let the LNP wedge them
More effective to release policy closer to election date..
This is was the NBN was supposed to do for Oz, the opportunities for small business are amazing.
Time. Our most precious resource. Unless you've figured out how to live forever.
WTF is "Handsard" � is that like a parody of Hansard? If so, Morrow's comments would fit right in. Has he given a straight answer to a question yet in any of those Senate hearings?
First it was FTTN because it was faster and quicker money in the kitty..
Now that isn't happening, its now more cost effective..
NBN you are running out of bullshit to say
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
Has he given a straight answer to a question yet in any of those Senate hearings?
Yes.. "Taken on notice" and "commercial in confidence"
http://www.computerworld.com
Labor preparing to embrace FTTdp, Fifield claims..
Communications minister Senator Mitch Fifield has claimed that Labor�s broadband spokesperson, Jason Clare, is preparing to unveil an NBN policy that will see the use of fibre to the distribution point (FTTdp) for a significant portion of the National Broadband Network�s fixed line footprint.
�While Labor have been campaigning in support of fibre to the premise (FTTP), recent public comments by Shadow Minister for Communications Jason Clare appear to be an attempt to �soften up� the public for a change in approach and a shift to using copper,� a statement from the minister said.
Fifield claimed that such a policy would be a �backflip� for Labor.
The alp have not yet released their nbn policy, so that's just surfboarding..
Jason has said all along, that they would bring back more fibre into the mix where possible. He has also said that this would be difficult to do without stranding current fttn assetts.
So what if he intends to use fttdp in the mix? That's far better than fttn and opens the way for fod.
I don't see fifeild intending to roll out general fttdp in place of fttn.
BTW if any one was wondering how Kevin Andrews expressing an interest in becoming PM (hahaha) may affect things NBN wise
He has consistently voted against
https://theyvoteforyou.org.a
Apart from that, he has just parroted coalition talking points
Communications minister Senator Mitch Fifield has claimed that Labor�s broadband spokesperson, Jason Clare, is preparing to unveil an NBN policy that will see the use of fibre to the distribution point (FTTdp) for a significant portion of the National Broadband Network�s fixed line footprint.
It's interesting that this is almost word for word what Jason Claire said Mitch Fifield would do. He also said it would be a backflip. With both of them claiming the other will switch to FTTdp, maybe it's a good indication that it is a middle ground compromise, at least in the interim.
maybe it's a good indication that it is a middle ground compromise, at least in the interim.
Possibly.
Poor Annabel HepworthI looks such the fool
Poor Annabel Hepworth looks like desperately attempting to carry out orders she doesn't understand, and which largely relate to industry sectors which seem a foreign activity in regard to her reporting.
r will switch to FTTdp, maybe it's a good indication that it is a middle ground compromise, at least in the interim.
yeh i dont care who backflips
fttdp is still infinetly better than the dud fttn roll out.
atleast theres an upgrade path. Ill be willing to shell out up to 2 grand to get fibre connected to my home.
with fttn the cost is atleast 5-10x higher if not impossible.
atleast theres an upgrade path
So where's that leave poor schmucks who already have FTTN RFS ? Will this ever go FTTdp ?
Friendly reminder that #nbn has now officially missed its target of updating the "3 year construction plan" quarterly by 3 months.
Well, just for fun (literally, because I know it never makes any difference), from time to time I submit an "enquiry" via the NBN� website. It doesn't seem to bother them that I add some sarcasm. I always get a nifty cut-and-paste answer of some kind. There are always some entertaining nuggets in them as well.
Anyway � on March 29 I fired one off.
The NBN website says the Three Year Construction Plan will be "updated quarterly." Has it been updated? If not, when will it be? I'm anxious to see an up to date list of all the areas being upgraded to Fibre before me even though they can already get unlimited ADSL data plans, while I have to wait until at least 2020 with access to only 10gb per month of snails-pace 3G.
Their automated response says
Thank you, your enquiry has been successfully submitted. Your reference number is 511066-XXXXXX. We will endeavour to respond within five business days.
Day 5 tomorrow. Watch this space lol.
edited for grammar
"so um yeah we fked up.."
FTTN continues to be the fastest technology to deploy at scale, taking neighbourhoods with little or no broadband to speeds of 50-100 Mbps.
The leaks over the last few weeks raise very serious questions regarding the validity of this claim.
The Strategic Review detailed the average build time for a FttP FSAM at ~7.1 months (the benchmark for this was ~7 months). This was also using the first revision architecture, not 'skinny fibre'. Therefore any FttP delays must be related to aspects other than the build. This leaves Design, Build Prep and Testing.
I am not aware of any publicly acknowledged benchmarks for FttN. However the initial 'Construction Trial' (JDWC), which began in mid 2014, was for ~12 months. Premises from this trial began to be declared RFS from October 2015.
I am not aware when the actual FttN 'scale deployment' began (those outside the JDWC). It seems to be August 2015 (for Build Commenced) according to the IDP spreadsheet linked in the article below.
The Financial Review article reveals that of those SAMs outside the JDWC, all 40 FTTN areas have been delayed, and none were ready by last Friday (April 1 2016) as planned.
A fairly cursory examination suggests build times in the order of 5 months+, however it is difficult to say due to the range of milestones in the design and build stages.
I don't see why journalists allow Fifield to get away with the "6-8 years sooner and $30 billion cheaper than Labor" line.
We are 31 months since the last election and the MTM has so far delivered less than 300K FttN/B premises TBMK.
Compare that to the 31 months prior to the last election.
A point of interest, according to the IDP document the FttB tally is 15530 as of November 2015, with nothing scheduled for RFS until 30/04/2017 (19 premises?). No wonder it is grouped with FttN.
That has to be the worst-edited blog post I've seen... well, almost anywhere.
How much are lnpnbncotm paying their PR staff?
Less than the price of a coffee machine, I'd posit, for work of that calibre.
How much are lnpnbncotm paying their PR staff?
Blogs should have a public right to comment..
But they wouldn't dare..
So where's that leave poor schmucks who already have FTTN RFS ? Will this ever go FTTdp ?
Such is the luck with MTM lotto, since they took control. At least with NBNv1, 93% of Australia would have 1 fixed type of fibre network.
Apparently Mitch Field thinks putting everything into a single KISS technology was stupid and bad. So he came up with MTM lotto and upto randomness.
A point of interest, according to the IDP document the FttB tally is 15530 as of November 2015, with nothing scheduled for RFS until 30/04/2017 (19 premises?). No wonder it is grouped with FttN.
From what I've been told they're only doing FTTB when there isn't capacity on the Node and even then they are dropping another Node out on the street to serve the MDU. (copy and paste of my own comment from vdsl2 thread).
FTTB in FTTN areas seems to be dead. There are more in FTTP areas as what I would call infill.
In the photo of the cabinet in this article... are those 4 red boxes at the bottom the batteries required for each node??
atleast theres an upgrade path. Ill be willing to shell out up to 2 grand to get fibre connected to my home.
Telstra only charge $299 to connect a new landline if the end user digs the trench to the house.
https://www.telstra.com.au/home-phone/plans-rates
2000 dollars would be a ripoff. But then, FTTN per house is suspiciously high too if the copper is in good condition.
FTTB in FTTN areas seems to be dead.
Indeed. It will be interesting to see how the numbers compare to answers to QoN on this topic at the latest senate hearings.
Guys its okay, Mitchy has us covered.
He is the penultimate DILL.
Undisputed world champion of lack of knowledge say any thing politician .
"And this financial year, of all of the premises that nbn has rolled out to with FTTN and FTTB, only two premises have paid to upgrade to FTTP under the �Technology Choice� program"
Of course nothing about how much they had to pay.
I thought in last Senate hearing (march 15) that one of the nbn� execs said it was 4 or 5 individuals had completed the tech choice program.
Those four or five would cover FW and Sat as well not just FTTN/B.
In order to go forwards, you must go backwards... and then reverse some more..
and then travel back a little bit more.
Eventually you will travel so far back you will be in front.
Makes perfectly good sense to me.
Well that is actually true, if you are traveling on the surface of a three-dimensional object without a predetermined boundary.
How long ago was he unaware of these two solutions?
Up until there was en election close and all the #^$@ about the MTM was finally coming out and needed something to manipulate to try and save it.....
They need to go. This. Is. Unacceptable
https://delimiter.com.au/201
http:/
At some point when another government is formed, I hope this Idiot rots in jail and takes his bosses with him. Media should NEVER be controlled by the governments. What a load of crap! He ignored freaking clear evidence, then twists his words and he has no idea what he is even talking about. His a parrot!
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