NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft"
Now that is quite amusing...I would love to see them place a value on that.
NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft".
Then the AFP has no jurisdiction to investigate.
http://www.afp.gov.au/contact/report-a-crime
Intellectual Property - Refer to IP Australia at www.ipaustralia.gov.au for advice.
edit � I'm skeptical of the whole "AFP raid has nothing to do with the Govt" excuse.
Commonwealth crimes which the AFP investigates
The AFP carefully considers all reports of Commonwealth crimes, however we do not have the resources to investigate every reported crime. We have to ensure we allocate our resources to the crimes which have the greatest impact to Australian society.
Some leaks from NBNco that demonstrate the MtM is costing more, and taking longer would not (IMO) have a great impact to Australian Society, it really only impacts the person responsible for the MtM � Mr Turnbull.
edit also see:
http://www.afp.gov.au/about-
Case Categorisation and Prioritisation Model
How the CCPM is used
In determining which matters to prioritise, the AFP uses the Case Categorisation and Prioritisation Model (CCPM) to consider major elements of an operation.
These include:
* incident type and the impact of the matter on Australian society
* the importance of the matter to both the client and the AFP in terms of the roles assigned to them by Government and Ministerial direction
* the resources required by the AFP to undertake the matter
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
Considering they keep changing the targets to match what happens, I agree...but what good is that?
Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested
Then how can it possibly be "intellectual theft" if it is completely wrong?
NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft"
If so it's the only sign of intellect we've seen from them in the last three years, so I'm not surprised they'd desperately want it back :P
When did he ever promise that?
http://www.examiner.com.au/s
Turnbull confirms NBN will honour contracts
Mr Turnbull confirmed a previous pledge honouring all existing contracts signed by NBN Co to roll out Fibre-to-the-Premises (FttP) in Tasmania as ``the alternative would be to breach them and that is a course we would not countenance''.
http://www.examiner.com.au/s
Every contract the NBN Co has entered into will be honoured in accordance with its terms,
We understand that NBN contracts have been signed for the entire Tasmanian rollout and you can see Visionstream trucks travelling around the state
But conclusions drawn from these leaks may wrong. The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets. IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested. So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
They spent $12 billion buying the copper and HFC from Telstra and Optus.
$1.5 billion giving an upgrade contract to Telstra for the HFC network.
Hrmm, these are some big numbers that need to go on record. AFAIK, unless chemistry rewrites itself, these 2 costs are distinctly related to copper.
Keep fooling yourself.
The leaks brings transparency back to the public. This has been severely lacking since the MTM backflip.
First the Spanish times reports it, now Japanese times
Okay Turnbull we know you didn't want the NBN to be an AUSTRALIAN election issue.. So now its gone world wide..
Oh dear back fire
But conclusions drawn from these leaks may wrong.
The conclusion to be drawn from the leaks in unequivocal. MTM is a financial disaster
IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that
Morrow has said a lot of things that, if nbn� were a publicly listed company, really would give ASIC grounds to bring in the AFP.
Oh dear back fire
More like fuel refinery explosion now.
Great it being exposed we do need the NBN we deserve, not the pixie dusted MTM rot.
I was seriously not expecting a raid by the AFP... Especially over the NBN. What the hell just happened and why did it happen?
IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested. So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
But they were spending 10 times the amount expected on pre-activation remediation.
The only reason for much of the CIC is to hide the incompetence. Liberal / Labor � whoever, the NBN is a commercial operator in its own space, the CIC claims dont hold water.
Turnbull could talk about the NBN all day if he wanted to. Bill Shorten
would actually say something while doing so.
FIFY.
Fifield gone into hiding today?
Hoping his fake leak doesn't attract the AFP?
The only reason for much of the CIC is to hide the incompetence. Liberal / Labor � whoever, the NBN is a commercial operator in its own space, the CIC claims dont hold water
Agreed.
I have also noticed MT in the paper saying they don't leak, when we have just seen a series of planted leaks in the Murdoch press aimed at discrediting the ALP version of the NBN.
Even before the ALP has announced it's policy, they are leaking against what they are worried it may be.
Are the Federal Police going to investigate this leaks ...... probably not as they are official NBN management leaks ... NBN management will not complain about them .....
Or if they are not official leaks have they also been referred to to the Feds?
The is absolutely no doubt we need strong whistleblower protection legislation in this country.
Getting the Feds to investigate and threatening legal action is just a way of deterring would be whistleblowers and hiding the truth.
But in this case I think the clumsy politically motivated action by NBN management has just put the issue on the front page .... all the smart voters are thinking what have they got to hide?
Wasting the Feds time hiding politically inconvenient truths is a waste of taxpayers money, and an abuse of democracy ... something the ALP would be well advised to point out to voters whenever they can.
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
It has already missed them. Would you like to comment on the fact that while it may be illegal to leak documents, the position is not quite so clear cut regarding receiving them, so the choice of targets for the raids is bemusing to say the least? The ALP cannot leak what they do not have � but we do know one office that resembles a boat built of barnacles...
Fifield gone into hiding today?
Hoping his fake leak doesn't attract the AFP?
Great minds think alike.....
I bet the fake leaks have not been referred to the AFP.
While the ALP is protesting the timing, it is doing more damage to the LNP side, the public understand the purpose of leaks and why governments and business want to cover them up.
I'm just waiting for the AFP to raid NBNco's offices to drag the board off for lying on a massive scale to a senate committee.
Would be a fitting end to the idiots that have done so much damage to not just NBNco, but Telstra and Vodafone.
Even if FTTN is running to some sort of schedule, the years it's taken to change technology, get agreements to use the copper etc, mean the build is delayed, and hence slower. If FTTN is so great, why doesn't it appear in any of NBNco's TV ads ?
Turnbull confirms NBN will honour contracts
Thankyou Terror_Blade, was just looking for some links.
You're relying on what others say so that's a problem.
Actually I'm relying on what Turnbull himself said. So that's the problem (rookie mistake on my part).
The AFP Commissioner says otherwise.
If he tells you a square is a circle, does that make it correct? As Xenocaust posted here whrl.pl/ReCQCZ.
http://www.afp.gov.au/what-w
Politically Sensitive matters
All matters where the execution of a search warrant may have politically sensitive implications (not limited to fraud) should be raised with the Minister responsible for the AFP by the relevant Minister or Department at the time of referral. This enables the Government to be informed at the earliest juncture of potentially politically contentious matters that may require investigation by the AFP, in accordance with the Commonwealth Fraud Control Guidelines.
Which I why I say All the facts and evidence, as everything I can see points to someone within the current government being made aware of what's going on, and I find it very hard to believe they wouldn't have let Turnbull know.
Note Kingy, I'm not saying Turnbull was behind it or involved with it, just that he was aware of it.
I find it very hard to believe they wouldn't have let Turnbull know.
Plausible deniability
I was seriously not expecting a raid by the AFP... Especially over the NBN.
I've been expecting it for months.
/forum-replies.cfm?t=2499050&p=76#r1514
What the hell just happened and why did it happen?
The AFP have chosen to investigate the leaks exposing the lies and misuse of public funds by nbn� at the request of nbn�, as if such leaks are a threat to the Australian people (while leaks from government to friendly media are normal and unexamined).
I like how Turnbull handled this question by the press because a Prime Minister shouldn't engage conspiracy theories.
Turnbull got elected based on lies and conspiracy theories. He continues to spout them. The fact that he is now PM doesnt hasnt stopped him. If he isnt worried about it, I dont see why you should be.
The Prime Minister was only made aware of the NBN leaks investigation yesterday.
Ha!. The timing is just all a big co-incidence right? There have been much bigger issues where leaks have happened and the AFP is nowhere to be seen. The government are the ones set to be most embarrassed by these leaks. It really doesnt take Einstein to work out what is going on. We have already seen how Turnbull can ensure an outcome without actually stating it with FTTN and the MTM. We are seeing the same again now. Turnbull is a conniving lawyer and a politician on top. He regularly shows he cant be trusted. The Abbbott/Turnbull government have attacked free speech from the outset. Why do you seriously think this is no different?
Promised by the Labor government.
And they had started the rollout there, If Turnbull was honouring contracts all Tasmanians would have FTTP, not MTM. If honouring the contract means ripping it out to you then it must not mean much
Are the documents really commercial-in-confidence at all?
I doubt they are. A quick google came up with a possible legal precedent that may be relevant : In a case of 'Commonwealth of Australia v John Fairfax & Sons Ltd the judge' found:
��the defence [of public interest] applies to disclosures of things done in breach of national security, in breach of the law (including fraud) and to disclosure of matters which involve danger to the public.
�.
It is unacceptable, in our democratic society, that there should be a restraint on the publication of information relating to government when the only vice of that information is that it enables the public to discuss, review and criticize government action.
Accordingly, the court will determine the government's claim to confidentiality by reference to the public interest. Unless disclosure is likely to injure the public interest, it will not be protected.
That from the Commonwealth Attorney General's Department website.
I would love to see them place a value on that.
Yes as a work of fiction I can't see it in the best seller list :)
NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft". It doesn't make sense for a business not to protect its own financial interests.
Where were the AFP when leaks happened under Labor? Where have they been for much bigger and more concerning leaks from other departments and businesses working on govt projects?
The Prime Minister was only made aware of the NBN leaks investigation yesterday. The AFP Police Commissioner said the same thing.
Whilst the AFP may not have told Turnbull, I cannot believe the NBNCo didn't inform the shareholder ministers when they asked the AFP to investigate the leaks.
Of course. I strongly support disclosure in the public interest.
Except you support NBN Co's actions that do everything to ensure public disclosure doesn't happen. YOu cant have it both ways.
But conclusions drawn from these leaks may wrong
We cant make proper conclusions without them, because NBN Co dont provide open and transparent reporting.
Case in point The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.. No one knows where the rollout truly is up to. NBN Co dont disclose enough information for proper analysis. They made up the new targets and wont provide the basis so it can be analysed. Thanks for proving the point.
IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested. The opposite is happening. They understated the copper spend by a factor of 10. You cant change that fact, as awkward as it is.
So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
That really doesnt need answering. The only way we get decent information, in the public interest is thanks to the leaks. Sad but true. Taxpayers and the public deserve much better than the management and board of NBN Co are providing. The AFP stunt to shut down public discussion is just the latest embarrassment for them.
Now that is quite amusing...I would love to see them place a value on that
Eleventy Billion for the the creative writing by Bill Morrow AO (oops, to the announced next year)
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
Rollout targets yes. The targets can always be adjusted again if required.
Performance targets... not so much. Even changeing the the performance measurement to be 'achieved once in a 24 hr period' did not raise the performance measures to anything resembling a modern network.
Turnbull confirms NBN will honour contracts
You are wasting time presenting facts to Kingforce. They have been presented countless times before and he will just continue to ignore them and continually present some alternative version of reality (and get away with it).
So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
it enables the public to discuss, review and criticize government action.
Now � what commercial harm has NBN or its partners suffered from the disclosure of that information?
The documents have been available online for months. They are all about what problems NBN is facing and what they're doing about it, and how the project is going. There are no intellectual or trade secrets that I could see.
Whilst the AFP may not have told Turnbull, I cannot believe the NBNCo didn't inform the shareholder ministers when they asked the AFP to investigate the leaks.
I suspect it was the other way around. The leak truly is more embarrassing for the government than it is for NBN Co. No one seriously expects the MTM is going to be a success, and that it is going to come in under time or under budget. The government keeps assuring us the contrary though, and dont want to see any change away from its original policy � even now they are intimating they want to stick with FTTN of FTTdP or increased FTTP.
We will never know when the discussion happened. The only thing that is definite is that the government will continue to treat us like we are idiots.
What #NBN approach is better value for $$$ ??? FTTN FTTP
A one question survey:
https://twitter.com/ValueMgmt/status/732832466650726404
or the longer version:
What is really important to you about FTTP FTTN? Compare their value for $$$?
A Valuing FTTN & FTTP; NBN Australia 2016 Survey
Rate #NBN #FTTN #FTTP on #value for money� on a number of dimensions...
... or add your own dimensions...
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
2016 � 25mbs � 29.5 billion � oh that's right
This day may just be remembered as the day that truth finally won out.
The conclusion to be drawn from the leaks in unequivocal. MTM is a financial disaster
MTM is a financial, technical and national-interest disaster. There is no aspect where it isn't a disaster.
ftfy ;-)
we have just seen a series of planted leaks in the Murdoch press aimed at discrediting the ALP version of the NBN.
Sounds like birds of a feather � the coalition and News Corp seem to have a direct common interest in ensuring that Australia never gets a world-class FTTP based network.
They may have their separate reasons for hating the thought of the NBN, but they seem remarkably united in sponsoring utter rubbish to bring about the defeat of their common enemy.
Trying to keep up. Not sure if this has been put up yet.
Unbiased reporting from the Rupert stable of horseshite,
The Daily TeleCrap (front page. Friday 30 May 2016)
Not reportage... editorializing on the front page.
Just a few observations. I've been having a poke around this afternoon about the timing ... found this Youtube video from the 3rd December 2015 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqDSRXryUe4
Rather than you all having to watch the whole thing, skip to approx 4:15. It's Fifield answering a question in Question Time about the NBN, and in particular, referring to this leaked info ....
https://11217-presscdn-0-50-
Thanks to Renai LeMay for saving it (got it from Delimiter).
So .... what does this mean? Well ... we've had the AFP go on record today stating that:
"This matter was referred to us in December of 2015 by NBN Co, not by the Government." � Commissioner Andrew Colvin
There's not a whole lot of parliament activity on record during December (as you would expect), but that date was notable, with Fifield brushing off the leak (in the video) stating that "you don't need to be worried about the mis-characterisation of the document in the paper today".
Just thinking through this ... but given the timing of WHEN they asked the AFP to perform the investigation ... it's clear that SOMEONE was worried enough to ask the AFP for an investigation. Who could that have been? I can't think of anyone else in NBNCo that would have done so except Bill Morrow, particularly for such a serious matter.
Does Malcolm honestly think that Bill Morrow WOULDN'T have checked in with Fifield before asking? Seriously? Considering the leak revelations were biting them a bit at the time, it sounds like a great time to put an investigation in motion on the sly.
The Coalition's stench around this story is overpowering. I wonder what the metadata looks like for Bill Morrow's and Mitch Fifield's phones on that day hmmm?
Anyhoo ... back to our regularly scheduled programming ...
AFP Commissioner has referred matter to Police Integrity Unit to find out if media was alerted to #AFPRaids
That should be interesting considering the lnp propaganda wing (Sky news) was at conroy's house before the afp got there.
https://twitter.com/crowedm/status/733564426167586818
Labor launches legal bid over photos taken by an NBN Co employee of documents in Stephen Conroy's office.
And now this.
Sir Arrowflight KCMG writes...
Unbiased reporting from the Rupert stable of horseshite
We would expect nothing less. There are now years of evidence to confirm that.
The Daily TeleCrap (front page. Friday 30 May 2016)
BTW, that looks like a nice ability to see into the future . . .
;-)
BTW, that looks like a nice ability to see into the future . . .
But not to a calender. Mine says 30 May 2016 is a Monday? Weird weekend
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
Our great AFP at work.
But not to a calendar. Mine says 30 May 2016 is a Monday? Weird weekend
Must be a long weekend, then . . .
We probably shouldn't let ourselves get distracted by such issues � after all, there are plenty of coalition MTM fanciers here to cause diversions without adding to the collection!
2016 � 25mbs � 29.5 billion � oh that's right
I think the kind of targets KingForce has in mind are .... deliver something ... to someone .. some time .... for well ... a lot of money.
OK ... go close to delivering something to someone one day for an exorbitant price ...... NBNco are even sweating on making that target...... but they are ex-Telstra so no real surprise.
BTW, that looks like a nice ability to see into the future . . .
;-)
But not to a calender. Mine says 30 May 2016 is a Monday? Weird weekend
Must be a long weekend, then . . .
Bastards ! *shakes fist*
I was using the Joe Hockey EleventyTM keyboard.
(He,he)
Our great AFP at work.
Seems highly unprofessional to let a civilian in on a raid without adequate supervision, given the highly political nature of this it should have also waited until after the election.
I don't see how the leaks are an issue though, the leaks are a matter of public interest given what has been going on over at NBN.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Nice one this, it's claimed that NBN had a "spectacularly incompetent" funding model which would've produced a highly competent product vs the current incompetent funding model that is producing a spectacularly incompetent product.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
The National Broadband Network (NBN) has agreed to destroy photographs taken by one of its employees during last night's police raids on Labor Party offices.
The ABC understands the representative, acting as a "special constable", took photos of 34 or 35 documents that are subject to parliamentary privilege.
This is the NBN employee given an AFP makeover, and specifically chosen for their expertise in identifying NBNCo internal documents.
How on earth could he have mistaken Labor party documents for NBN documents?
Maybe because both the NBN employee and the papers are both made from dead wood?
If this NBN employee was only going to take photos of the documents and then view them later, why did he need to be there in the first place?
In these political circumstances on the eve of a closely fought election, a camera in a Ministers office could be considered far more dangerous than a gun.
Or was this NBN employee given instructions, or just took it upon himself to take a peak and a picture of Labors NBN election or post election plans, policies, or strategies?
One piece of good to hopefully come out of this disastrous PR stunt for the AFP and the MTM creators and Managers, is the fire it might put into the belly of the Federal Oppositions and voters, for the rest of the campaign, on the NBN, and a range of other important issues, that can be linked to this sorry saga.
How on earth could he have mistaken Labor party documents for NBN documents?
How on earth was he allowed to enter the premises with a telephone or any kind of video recorder, he was there to point at stuff that is all. This is will be a highly political issue, the AFP have thrown themselves under the bus.
Does Malcolm honestly think that Bill Morrow WOULDN'T have checked in with Fifield before asking? Seriously? Considering the leak revelations were biting them a bit at the time, it sounds like a great time to put an investigation in motion on the sly.
Is it just me, or do I sense these raids may have been triggered by the terrible news from the Mediterranean about the loss of the Egyptian aircraft? It certainly smacks of the situation in the UK on 11 Sept 2001, by Jo Moore, who worked for Stephen Byers, the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions. Miss Moore�s memo, written at 2.55pm on September 11, when millions of people were transfixed by the terrible television images of the terrorist attack, was widely condemned for suggesting �It is now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. Councillors expenses?�
I�d really like to see what messages Colvin received from any Government ministers or their aides yesterday��� �It is now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. NBN leaks?� As another post said, "I'd love to see their phone metadata yesterday!"
Sir Arrowflight KCMG writes...
I was using the Joe Hockey Eleventy� keyboard.
Oh, that's all right then!
You should have said you were, quite rightly, using the same abacus the coalition use for their MTM . . .
How on earth was he allowed to enter the premises with a telephone or any kind of video recorder, he was there to point at stuff that is all. This is will be a highly political issue, the AFP have thrown themselves under the bus.
Other AFP raids have gone similarly spectacularly badly. If labor was in charge, The Libs, News Limited, Kingforce would all be calling for a royal commission. With such a screwup, AFP heads need to roll.
Does Malcolm honestly think that Bill Morrow WOULDN'T have checked in with Fifield before asking?
Not so much that but, does Malcolm Turnbull honestly think we will believe Fifield wasn't told.
aiui the AFP protocol requires them to inform their minister before they undertake any politically sensitive action. Do they honestly think that we will believe the AFP either didn't think raiding an opposition Senator's office during an election campaign isn't politically sensitive or that they didn't follow their protocol.
The Coalition's stench around this story is overpowering.
You have just qualified for the understatement of the year competition :)
Turnbull is a conniving lawyer and a politician on top. He regularly shows he cant be trusted.
Was watching his face on the tv when he was saying it was nothing to do with his government that the afp raided the place. I could see LIE WRITTEN ALL OVER IT AS PLAIN AS DAY.
What a tosser.
Was watching his face on the tv when he was saying it was nothing to do with his government that the afp raided the place. I could see LIE WRITTEN ALL OVER IT AS PLAIN AS DAY.
Do you inside evidence to prove otherwise?
They spent $12 billion buying the copper and HFC from Telstra and Optus.
Both parties support this policy and Labor initiated this.
$1.5 billion giving an upgrade contract to Telstra for the HFC network.
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Both parties support this policy and Labor initiated this.
They spent 11B to buy access to pits and ducts with the intent to END THE LIFE OF COPPER, giving T remuneration for customers shifted to NBN FTTP.
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Which is being overbuilt by FTTN anyway.
Please put forward real arguments you are inept at putting forward legitimate answers/statements.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Much better a FTTP overbuild than pissing $50 billion down the drain on Fraudband.
UPROAR over the AFP raids on Labor figures is growing tonight after it was revealed an NBN employee was with police and took photos he sent to his company.
Labor fears the 32 photos it thought had been deleted from a mobile phone are now in the hands of the company.
Lawyers for the ALP are demanding the Federal Police explain why the photos were disseminated, and to be given a list of the documents copied in them.
Labor fears confidential election material and protected papers used in Senate inquiries could be among the documents.
Unintended consequences of a series of really stupid decisions.
an NBN Co employee named Steere
Mr Steere was there to identify documents related to the search, but he also took photographs on his mobile phone.
why Mr Steere disseminated the photos when AFP officers present had acknowledged they were privileged. It also asked, �Under whose authority did he take such action?�
Something to keep some of us busy with tonight
Telstra has proposed to tweak the migration plan to ensure greater service continuity for customers.
The telco�s proposed changes include the provision of additional time for premises with an NBN order to be connected before mandatory disconnection occurs, and amendment of the process to prepare business grade services for the multi-technology NBN.
http://www.accc.gov.au/syste
Discussion paper on Telstra's proposal to vary the migration plan
http://www.accc.gov.au/syste
Telstra's submission
Looks like Clive's going to go out swinging.
UPROAR over the AFP raids on Labor figures is growing tonight after it was revealed an NBN employee was with police and took photos he sent to his company.
So are we going to see Fairfax tomorrow raise News Corp's
"Cop's Raid Labor"
front page stories today, with a headline of
"COP and NBN steals Labor election secrets"
https://twitter.com/clivefp
@TurnbullMalcolm asked me to remove #Conroy from NBN #Senate Committee
Frank Buijk ?@FrankBuijk 3h3 hours ago
@CliveFPalmer Sorry to be intrusive on this,but was that at Wild Duck in Kingston?
Nice one Frank
Oh dear this is huge .This could bring Turnball down .I wait in anticipation.
After Dutton pissed off half of Australia, the APF raid today, NBN employee stealing labor secrets and sending them to NBN and then this. The results of the opinion polls for this period are going to be interesting. The next Morgan Poll will be one to watch. With every week of warmer late spring and early winter weather possibly going to add another swathe of anti-Coalition votes in recognition that Climate change is a threat to be reckoned with.
I dread to think of what anti-greens, anti-labor and anti-independent mud will be thrown around next week to try and change the subject.
Can't wait to see the face of my brave local sitting member at the train station next week.
https://twitter.com/CliveFPa
The NBN cost has blown out by $15 billion, that's nearly half of Government debt of $39 billion 7 hours ago
Go Clive. (In more ways than one.)
How do you mean?
Just copying/referencing a tweet in response to Clive's tweet about Turnbull and Conroy
https://twitter.com/jackyjac
Oh dear this is huge .This could bring Turnball down .I wait in anticipation.
Clive's tweet about Turnbull and Conroy
Headline in Fairfax media tomorrow maybe
"Clive's leak washes away Turnbull's dreams"
I dread to think of what anti-greens, anti-labor and anti-independent mud will be thrown around next week to try and change the subject.
I can almost hear Murdoch media yelling fly my pretty's fly Wizard of Oz style.
ust copying/referencing a tweet in response to Clive's tweet about Turnbull and Conroy
Yes, but how could Clives tweet bring Turnbull down? What am I missing?
I can almost hear Murdoch media yelling fly my pretty's fly Wizard of Oz style.
Time to keep an eye on what Col Allan's up to.
I'd be stocking up on black ink in anticipation of a shortage for if News Corp publications lay it on really thick and black to scare the voters about a whole range of issues in the next 6 weeks.
Watch them go after the next Generation of potential and talented Labor leaders. Bowen, Plibersek, Albanese and Clair. To try and make it an easier run for team Abbott v2.0 to rise again in 2019 and try and kill off or gain control of NBN 3.0.
Yes, but how could Clives tweet bring Turnbull down? What am I missing?
Clive wanted to get 3 rugby playing sheep from The King's School to gang tackle Senator Conroy to take Conroy off the NBN Senate Committee. The King's School Headmaster said no to this plan; the sheep were too vital for rugby practice.
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
It�s unclear why the AFP waited more than six months from the first leak and two months since the most recent leak
part of a �phased approach� the AFP had taken to the investigation
Looks like the agile and collaborative approach did not work out too well for the AFP and NBN this time.
Unintended consequences of a series of really stupid decisions.
Yep, in a really big way. It will be interesting to see if the NBNCo staffer has committed a criminal act.
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
Shadow Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has also said the government needs to answer questions on whether it pressured NBN into referring the matter to the AFP for investigation. Coalition election spokesman Mathias Cormann ducked the question three times during interviews this morning. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said he was only made aware of the investigation yesterday.
Questions on whether other government ministers or staffers were aware of the investigation have so far gone unanswered by the Coalition�s campaign media team. NBN declined to comment.
Morale at NBN Co is going to be real interesting on Monday morning.
Yep, in a really big way. It will be interesting to see if the NBNCo staffer has committed a criminal act.
32 criminal acts?
Wouldn't he be able to claim immunity on the basis that he was a special AFP Constable and thought that meant he was immune from getting into trouble. That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
I still can't believe this is how our society works. We have FEDERAL POLICE running around chasing paper work that is public property... paid for by the public/taxpayer/Australian yet hidden by a politically controlled and poorly run GBE that holds said taxpayers in contempt at every turn and prevents them from knowing actual truths about how not only their money is spent but how their future is MASSIVELY impacted by said spending and wasting UPTO 56 BILLION dollars (that we only know of!!) on an absolute joke of a 'policy'... yet its paper work that is their priority.
Yeah. OK.
What a fkd up society. This is where your priorities go when people only have to go to a shop to get their food (a very long play at natural selection... or the lack thereof no).
Comment about the Crikey article makes for interesting reading.
Wonder how long it will take before a whole raft of Whirlpool posts in the last few hours will also disappear.
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
Curiouser and curiouser. Now the AFP has had to admit that the NBN employee, described in earlier reports as having been assigned the role of �constable assisting� during the raids, has released data from the raids which is supposed to be sealed. The data consisted of photos of papers taken during the raids. Too late � horses and stable doors.
On Fairfax a strong article by Michael Bachelard was open for comments for only 20 minutes. Now on Guardian Australia a late article, about the protest by the ALP�s lawyer over release of this data which might be protected by Parliamentary privilege since Conroy is a Senate Committee member, was open to comments but then suddenly disappeared and no further comments can be made. Earlier articles have also disappeared, especially those describing the �constable assisting�.
What is going on?
That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
But even if that is the case, certainly not authorized to go on a fishing expedition and disseminate his findings to his colleagues .
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
Simon Breheny, director of policy at the Institute of Public Affairs: If your offices are raided by the Australian Federal Police during an election campaign, it�s fair to say things are not going well for you. This is the situation the ALP finds itself in after the office of former communications minister Stephen Conroy and the home of another Labor staffer was raided on Thursday night. The attempts by some in the Shorten camp to turn this back on the government are � to put it mildly � a stretch.The AFP raid was just the final chapter in a less than ideal day for Labor.
Lol.
But if one of the AFP constables (special or not so special) is caught steeling confidential labor documents during the raid, and transmitting them to his employer, then you know that things are really not going well for you (AFP, NBN and the bosses of both AFP and NBN = Federal Coalition)
But even if that is the case, certainly not authorized to go on a fishing expedition and disseminate his findings to his colleagues .
Did he get his induction training down the Pub with a pint of piss?
Wouldn't he be able to claim immunity on the basis that he was a special AFP Constable and thought that meant he was immune from getting into trouble.
No, police (sworn or otherwise) don't have immunity � legislation and regulation can permit them to do things that the general public cannot, but only in prescribed circumstances.
That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
(IANAL but) I believe that search warrants are prescriptive, and material obtained in the execution of one has to be safeguarded by the police � sharing it with a third party is unlikely to be acceptable in the best of circumstances, let alone when the material is claimed to be privileged.
Did he get his induction training down the Pub with a pint of piss?
"We're in tight with the government so we'll do whatever the flap we like"
Someone from Ruddstra MTM mk3 of 2013 has a mobile [phone], and knows how to use it?
Nah!
That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
I doubt he had license to distribute the pictures though. I suspect that's a criminal act, even for a temporary copper.
...and in unrelated news Tony Abbott hit a minor stroke of luck today, when his scratchie payed up big today... to the tune of about... lets say $56 billion... or was that $29.5 billion... we forget around here.
Back to you in the studio...
No, police (sworn or otherwise) don't have immunity � legislation and regulation can permit them to do things that the general public cannot, but only in prescribed circumstances.
Incorrect, providing that control didn't tell them he couldn't they are indemnified from criminal and civil liability
exemption from criminal liability and indemnity from civil liability for law enforcement and civilian participants who act in accordance with the controlled operation authority
EDIT: I'm not saying that NBN Co's employee is covered by this, I highly suspect that they have violated the policy by not ensuring the control of documents that were to be sealed under parliamentary privilege, just rebutting the position they don't have immunity. In a controlled operation they have no criminal liability and are indemnified from civil liability as long as they are following the guidelines from the operation authority.
Looks like the agile and collaborative approach did not work out too well for the AFP and NBN this time.
The terms agile, collaborative....and even efficiency certainly don't apply to the now 4000+ folk who are happily feeding from the NBNCo money trough and still don't have real KPIs to meet.
Re the AFP, they do a pretty difficult job pretty well, so are obviously not conducting these raids just for the heck of it. Now most of us will ignore the conjecture, and sit back and wait to see just why these raids were carried out now, i.e. during this election cycle.
I still can't fathom why the AFP were there in the first place. This was a job for lawyers, not cops. Especially during an election campaign. Have they nothing better to do?
The biggest losers here are the LNP, and the credibility of the NBN and AFP.
But I'm sure the mainstream media wont let the sheep know that.
when the material is claimed to be privileged.
Allegedly the AFP were warned it was privileged and let it be photographed anyway.
Morale at NBN Co is going to be real interesting on Monday morning.
With govt guaranteed employment and funding (and of course typical public service Ts and Cs), don't think that there will be too many worried folk.
The biggest losers here are the LNP, and the credibility of the NBN
What credibility?
What credibility?
Just trying to control my anger by toning down the words.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Except that it has required huge amounts of effort and cost to come up with an NBN HFC solution that previously didn't exist, tons of money to buy the aging, rotting HFC networks, and for it you get none of the benefits or futureproofing of the FTTP network. Oh, and much of the limited RF capacity is being taken away by Foxtel in the long term, and Telstra/Optus DOCSIS in the medium term. DOCSIS 3.1 at its best would require large amounts of HFC equipment to be replaced with modern gear.
A lovely solution. Especially when it's intended to host VoIP for telephony, but none of the active equipment (or the NTD) will have battery backups. First rate infrastructure!
"better" as far as short term capital investment maybe, but worse by any other metric
Allegedly the AFP were warned it was privileged and let it be photographed anyway.
However as it was a controlled operation, this will be all indemnified away and no-one will be liable for the data breach.
The question will be whether the NBN Co staff member was told not to or not, if he wasn't told he couldn't do that, then he too will be indemnified.
The one part that won't be is sharing it with his employer. That will not be part of the controlled operation, and doing so will be in, at the very least breaches of the terms of his approval to join the operation, and at worst, is criminally leaking information. The irony not being lost on me of that situation.
I haven't seen any studies on it but is anyone aware if there were any studies done about the benefits to SMBs of the fibre NBN?
Yep, it was completely covered in Turnbull's CBA where... oh, wait, no it wasn't.
I'd imagine SMB's (and larger B's) would raise the overall ARPU so long as they can get access to the higher speed tiers. This helps pay off the whole network faster, and hastens the reduction in CVC cost over time, IIRC.
It should be fairly self-evident that faster speeds up and down increase productivity in a business. Time saved in shifting data means more time to work on that data.
No doubt, Mr Steele's metadata should reveal to whom he sent the pix, and to how many! And who the recipients may have shared to in turn...
not if sent by Wickr or Signal or any other messaging platform not subject to metadata retention.
As to the issue of who tipped off the media � well, that's painfully obvious... AFP have denied tipping off
Malcolm has been circumventing the political process since becoming shadow communications minister, not mention due to fact of past and likely current personal investments whether it be locally held in trust or be it of international held stock and bonds he has had a major conflict interest that he has yet to be called accountable for..
Back several thread ago i posted a conclusion of what NBN Mk1 would become which has become true, that FTTN has become where deployed an extension of the top hat program that Telstra has committed to installing due to their black spot program which has been active in some form for the last 15-20+ years..
How fttn effects me as a consumer in WA living within the federal seat of swan under the council zone of City of Belmont within the suburb of Cloverdale, prior to me shifting out of this zone we were at the major stage of requiring a complete overhaul of copper infrastructure due in part to the lack of lines, prior to me leaving Sept/Oct of 2012 there were steps of telstra installing ducting within the council zone for install of fibre optic services, I shifted back within this zone December 2015, I see my absence from this area nothing has changed within the telecommunications infrastructure, yet I have noticed alot of change within the skyline within the area with the amount of new buildings going in..
In context of where i now live, I live up past Keane street in Cloverdale looking at what wiring I seen from the inspection access on the side of the unit I already know the wiring installed would not comply with the 2008 mandate by telstra a minimum specification of Cat-5 or better must on new active services...
From what i saw in service from my last address i would a max line distance for FTTN support for Vdsl, at my new home from the comms box i would likely exceed lan distance spec for 10Gb, 1Gb and likely 100mb, I do not know where the the D/A that services the address with a telephone services..
though knowing what i know and given the telecommunications upgrade that would be a basic access need to replace the copper I wonder if it would economical to upgrade the premises infrastructure to be in basic compliance of 2008 ords, to bring the copper up to nbn standards or whether it be prudent to the replace the infrastructure with new copper or cheaper to go the route of fibre optics and be done with it an not having to bother with it for the next 50 years or go to a second stage route upgrade to fibre at a later stage....
As for the current political bullshit smear campaign and hiding the truth's from the public I don't know..
looking ate my advanced payment protocols of funds I have access too under 21,000 or less DSP payment I have a max of $2,400 of accessible funds across 2 advanced payments a year to invest into ftth/p delivery, though personally I don't want a install price of over $1,000 dollars due to my already limited income as it..
there is a lot things I would like to be able to do from home though due to the lack of adequate broadband speed is less than a 1mb up or down there is not adequate bandwidth for my requirements.. with where my current network sits I do not have the adequate bandwidth to service those requirement, and i be stuffed if i'm going to be held to ransom by a politician that has both vested and invested interest's held within his own personal stocks and bonds he earns a dividend on and pushes a political solution to the public yet fails to concede that fttp/h actually benefits his farming interests within business interests he already has....
From the conference I was watching Turnbull was pretty cool under pressure.
Not sure what you were watching KIngy but he knew the lines ..no doubt he is complicit with this NBN raid farce and knows all....his reputation depends on it. He is well known to take risks...utegate?...and gambles at everyone else's expense eg NBN for his benefit, presuming not his own...karma Kingy.....
Turnbull could talk about the NBN all day if he wanted to
He talk anything for days ....and end up saying basically nothing � focus though, the real issue is abuse of office.
In contrast Labor is sending out very confusing messages about the whole raid situation.
You mean Turnbull is trying to confuse everyone as usual... He didn't want to talk NBN just accuse Labor of attacking the AFP...that is what is contrary to the fact. Every Labor person I have seen has clearly and succinctly said they are not having a go at the AFP but at the govt...
how could Turnbull have it so wrong..oh that's right...lies are not lies if they are said to save his butt....because that is 'common sense' ... /S
This one:
Looks a very drawn worried man there KIngy...as if he was about to fess up that he has screwed the NBN....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Clare hasn't said anything, neither has Conroy.
Actually Clare was in a piece with Dreyfuss this morning
Clare implies that last night's raids were under direct orders of the Liberal party.
Everyone is implying that ...so?
The AFP has contradicted Labor's suggestions
Not at all...that is your preferred reading of what they said...APF have tried very carefully to walk the wire....
It would seem though that protocols may have been breeched but as far as LNP are concerned as long as they have the info then they will put up with flak. Meta data records of where the photos went would be interesting....
Morrow also says that, as does Karina � their actions say otherwise.
Simply confirms the naivety of them all to not recognise the consequence of their actions to escalate the NBN Co leaks to AFP without proper protocols (it seems)...
The AFP is an upstanding institution
You are right the AFP as an institution is upstanding....no head of the AFP would act unilaterally to conduct this sort of raid (the NBN raid) when the country is in election mode without reference to the Minister in charge...and that is not the Minister for Comms � Filield. It is beyond comprehension unless they see themselves as above govt.
The real point is Turnbull and the relevant Ministers involved are not doing their job if they are saying they knew nothing and Fifield saying he did not inform any of them clearly demonstrates that.
Does AFP now say because it was caretaker mode govt they had to act unilaterly because there is no 'ruling' govt in place...
Very strange that the Labor party should seek to undermine its reputation.
False statement Kingy � at no point has Labor reps attacked the AFP, quite the contrary.
Perhaps a quote (you are using in your head) referenced to any media video report re the NBN raid of what they actually said would be useful to your argument or a transcript perhaps
But surely they would have known they'd claim parlimentary privilege, which can't be resolved until you have a new government?
So might that mean Labor would not be able to refer to them in election period for fear of breech of Parliamentary Privilege and a successful election for Labor could be deemed invalid if found guilty of that...?? Stopping any debate/discussion on NBN? ?
Then how can it possibly be "intellectual theft"
It is false flattery to imply the nbn MTM is intellectually valuable ...it is bereft of any intellectual value what so ever....
Just a few observations. I've been having a poke around this afternoon about the timing .
I'm catchin up to this fast moving thread as well. This is your post yesterday and it is interesting that today Fifield made a short announcement...prehaps your post sparked his memory? ...and some arse proection was required...he has been silent until today about the NBN raid.
This is will be a highly political issue, the AFP have thrown themselves under the bus.
Should be...AFP have either compromised themselves (by incompetence?) or been compromised (following orders?) it would seem... Any action without the Minister in charge of the AFP being informed, or more correctly without authorisation sought is foolhardy and very very dangerous...
With such a screwup, AFP heads need to roll.
That falls nicely into LNP script for absolution of Ministers and NBN Co CEO and Board........
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Both parties support this policy and Labor initiated this.
FYI LAbor was getting rid of the copper not buying new stuff... but you really do know this don't you...
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
You might want to check the info in the leaked docs which are so important, and must be so legitimate and true, to call in AFP otherwise they are chasing red herrings.... Your statement is false.
Turnbull's repeated assertions that the AFP is beyond reproach is another way of saying that they cannot possibly have done anything wrong, and to question that is unthinkable.
But I like to think about the unthinkable and believe there are elements to these events that are being hidden, and that Turnbull is desperate that they should not be be revealed.
The AFP need to explain how it was that an employee of NBNCo with connections to the Liberal Party was deputized as a Special Constable, invited along to the raid on the office of an ALP Senator, allowed to take photos of [publicly] unidentified documents and then pass those photos on to his employer and perhaps to other parties unknown. Why didn't the AFP officer in charge on the scene stop him from doing this?
How could such a police raid, with clear political consequences, not have been passed by the minister first? How could a representative of NBNCo be assigned to the raid without clearing such a politically explosive act with the Comms minister first? And was the matter also run past the PM? I don't doubt that more questions could be asked, and it won't be good enough for Turnbull or the AFP to continue to dodge explaining what happened.
There is an old saying: 'Justice not only needs to be done, but be seen to be done.' This applies just as much to police work as it does to the court room.
Simon Breheny, director of policy at the Institute of Public Affairs: If your offices are raided by the Australian Federal Police during an election campaign, ........The attempts by some in the Shorten camp to turn this back on the government are � to put it mildly � a stretch.The AFP raid was just the final chapter in a less than ideal day for Labor.
That appears to be the original script but.....how bad can things go...?? Total reversal?
LNP, Murdoch Media and IPA trying to justify the indefensible � all with cartons of egg on their faces .....what a sight.... how stupid to treat the public with such contempt.....
["General Manager Security Investigation nbn� Australia
November 2015 � Present (7 months)"
It would seem more than coincidence that AFP got involved around the same time this guy started in htis role at NBN Co and he happened to be the 'special agent' � did he also initiate AFP involvement to seek out these NBN Co docs perhaps?
Has Morrow made any official announcements as yet?
Just seeing that he was an advisor to Fifield and still recommending copper i can count this "opinion" piece as crap and has not persuaded me in anyway.
Also an employee of the IPA which hates the very concept of the NBN
New Zealand ask from their UFB FTTP.. How's your FTTN going?
*giggle noises in the background*
Over the 7million not yet passed by FTTP or the FTTN in build, that's ~$8.5bil as leaked (I haven't seen that exact leak, so if anyone has a link to it, or perhaps even a photograph of it ... :-)).
Thanks for all that info. So it looks like the $8.5bn is the extra capex required. There would also be an extra increase in total funding to cover the time lost to change tack and the extra build time for FTTP. That's still only putting the total funding at $10-15bn more (closer to $10bn imo). The lower opex and higher revenue for FTTP easily pays for that.
I've done this rough calculation a number of times over the years and I get the same result every time ... that is, there is no financial justification for the MTM. What bothers me is why haven't Labor been making this case to prepare the way for taking an FTTP policy to the election? Have we got this wrong?
http://www.zdnet.com/article
http://www.zdnet.com/articl
For anyone to claim that the public should not know that the rollout is slower than expected with rising costs, that the company is looking at cheaper technologies to bring costs down, and that over three dozen fibre-to-the-node areas are behind schedule is to take the public for mugs.
It is disingenuous to claim, as Cormann has, that NBN throwing a bunch of numbers over the wall each week is transparency. The weekly rollout figures are headline numbers at best � they do not detail which fibre technology is being used, and they bundle fibre-to-the-premises, fibre-to-the-node, and fibre-to-the-basement into one number, with geographical breakdown limited to states and territories.
For the past three years, NBN has covered as much information as it can in its now-infamous "commercial-in-confidence" phras
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
how would nbn� have gained that evidence?
it should all be under seal till the issues of Parliamentary Privilege are resolved as it seems that none of the other locations or people or organisations other that ALP associated areas were searched or have i missed any other searched locations?
how would nbn� have gained that evidence?
Illegally.
it should all be under seal till the issues of Parliamentary Privilege are resolved as it seems that none of the other locations or people or organisations other that ALP associated areas were searched or have i missed any other searched locations?
The NBN staff member acting as a constable for the AFP forwarding the photographs to the NBN powers-that-be would appear to have been the catalyst... and at a rough guess, the people stood down and staring down the barrel of being fired will have good grounds for unfair dismissal cases with fairwork, but... hey, I'm no lawyer.
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
Hope the source of the IDs was not solely from evidence gather from Conroy's office, as the evidence is sealed and as such the AFP and NBN, are not supposed to be privy to it.
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
You mean they knew who the whistleblowers were, then proceeded with the raid?
Hardly likely that the raid drew them to identify the culprits . I believe they already knew, and that's what led to the raids.
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
This is ridiculous, so the sealed evidence led to the whistle blowers and subsequently stood down?
How does this work? Does AFP have x-ray vision and can see through sealed boxes of documents? Seems like there is X-men among us.
The only reason, they knew who the culprits were at NBN co. They didn't need to raid the ALP, just ask to help with the investigation. I'm sure the ALP would comply.
So the raid's intention was not to assist an investigation. BUT TO STEAL ALP NBN Policy documents, as evidently done so by Mr S, via an phone and photos/internet access while onsite. In addition to seal the senate inquiry results so that nothing can be disclosed until after the election
The message gets clearer everyday due to the event's fallout. LNP shenanigans, more to come. Its a long road to election day.
The message gets clearer everyday due to the event's fallout. LNP shenanigans, more to come. Its a long road to election day.
For sure.
More stinks of dead rats about to surface.
Lying Necrosis Party. Aka LNP.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
I would laugh if it wasn't so funny.
The NBN staff member acting as a constable for the AFP forwarding the photographs to the NBN powers-that-be would appear to have been the catalyst... and at a rough guess, the people stood down and staring down the barrel of being fired will have good grounds for unfair dismissal cases with fairwork, but... hey, I'm no lawyer.
Has their representation been crowd funded yet? I make a donation for sure.
How does this work?
Maybe the NBNCo has illegally used the photographs they were illegally given after they had been illegally taken at the direction of the AFP. It will be interesting to see what criminal charges arise from this fiasco.
http://www.zdnet.com/articl
It is disingenuous to claim, as Cormann has, that NBN throwing a bunch of numbers over the wall each week is transparency. The weekly rollout figures are headline numbers at best � they do not detail which fibre technology is being used, and they bundle fibre-to-the-premises, fibre-to-the-node, and fibre-to-the-basement into one number, with geographical breakdown limited to states and territories.
Yep. It is always frustrating to hear Turnbull say that the Coalition are more transparent than Labor were. There is more to transparency than quantity of info, it is also about the level of detail (or lack thereof).
Good article by Zdnet
We are entitled to ask questions, that is the beauty of the democracy we live in.
Well on behalf of taxpayers (initiated from a state's house basis) the Senate is supposed to do this however that institution continues to be abused and disregarded. Where the Govt doesn't like their work they change the rules or refuse to participate. This govt has to go and the NBN Raids confirm that
I said this last election when albo was Comms minister, he does not execute a case for it very well and I don't think he really understands the NBN
Albo is much better at transport and industrial infrastructure, the NBN is unfortunately out of his depth.
Today marks 1,000 days since I got a letter from NBNCo (28/08/13) telling me about construction starting (2GOS-05 � FTTP) � despite having had the PCD installed on the wall over a year ago, I'm still waiting for the "network shortfall" to be rectified so I can order a service.
I think this highlights one issue wit MTM
with the big rush to switch over to FTTN including all teh design and provisioning issues nbn� have totally dropped the ball with what they were building before the switch was announced
All most of the areas in 2GOS that had "network shortfalls" before the last election still seem to have them today
Then you have 2GOS-07 that had "special build" contracts let, outside the normal FTTP process.
The build seemed to be running ok, then the moment that FTTN kicked off, work became very sporadic in 2GOS-07, sometime being months between workers being seen.
It then went quiet for 6 months till AUSGRID started running the aerial fibre, about 2 years after the initial rollout in 2GOS-07 kicked off
It certainly points to a lack of desire to even finish any FTTP build that were underway.
Maybe all the people that were managing those builds were shown the door as fibre zealots and some poor other sod had to try and learn what had been done and where negotiations stood
Wonder if AUSGRID getting all the aerial fibre design and install work in the Gosford area was part of some of those long drawn node power supply deals
The current management seem to delight in sweetening the pot for some suppliers of services with extra work not actually part of the negotiated deal
The lack of understanding about the subject from Pyne was embarrassing , bringing up movies as justification. Albo didn't do a lot better either tho.
This highlights the ongoing problem on Q and A. Whenever a comms minister is on, NBN discussion is not allowed. On the very odd occurrence they do allow it, they do it with ministers from different portfolios who only really know the speaking notes to regurgitate, or with other panellists who aren't specialists in the field. As such, NBN discussion is only ever superficial.
I'm guessing that neverless, your area is listed as RFS
Yep, April 30 last year apparently.
This highlights the ongoing problem on Q and A. Whenever a comms minister is on, NBN discussion is not allowed. On the very odd occurrence they do allow it, they do it with ministers from different portfolios who only really know the speaking notes to regurgitate, or with other panellists who aren't specialists in the field. As such, NBN discussion is only ever superficial.
I have generally boycotted Q&A when it became blatantly obvious that they were shutting down NBN discussion at the core. This was several years ago when someone here was on Q&A and described the process of having questions selected, the seating arrangements etc. Turns out it was a staged managed show afterall.
But last night, while I was flicking between channels, I came across a bit of the discussion. What I did see was Tony Jones direction of argument obviously to LNP's favour. Looks like Q&A is still shutting down unfavorable NBN debate on its show.
Really pyne has a face that looks like it needs a good five across the eyes.
Wouldn't phase him, he's probably had that daily since birth. The kind of guy even his mates punch in the face on a regular basis.
Albo is much better at transport and industrial infrastructure
I agree, he is fantastic at executing his agenda around this.
the NBN is unfortunately out of his depth.
Completely and truly. When he was on lateline with Turnbull in the 2013 campaign I was shouting at the TV like I wanted a microphone into his earpiece. Turnbull was frequently using fallacies and playing dirty so to speak and Albo could not roll with it and was being swept overboard.
Completely and truly. When he was on lateline with Turnbull in the 2013 campaign I was shouting at the TV like I wanted a microphone into his earpiece. Turnbull was frequently using fallacies and playing dirty so to speak and Albo could not roll with it and was being swept overboard.
It's a shame, he's just never been been able to understand and articulate technology issues, Jason Clare is much better but still not able to refute TurnCoat's BS very well when live. Michelle Rowland has probably the best understanding on comms infrastructure in the ALP's lower house crew iirc.
Jason Clare is much better but still not able to refute TurnCoat's BS very well when live
I think this comes down to Clare having some of Conroy's comms staffers who are very good at their jobs.
Michelle Rowland has probably the best understanding on comms infrastructure in the ALP's lower house crew iirc.
Michelle Rowland and Ed Husic would make a killer duo in the comms team IMO. Ed is also quite good across the NBN infrastructure, but together they would be amazing.
The lack of understanding about the subject from Pyne was embarrassing , bringing up movies as justification.
I think the take up of streaming services like Netflix and the frequent TV adverts for FreeView and other catch up TV services show it's a very good line as it resonates with the electorate who are using it for just that. Far more voters are going to identify with using the internet for TV and movies than will see any relevance in 1Gbps services.
but together they would be amazing
I'd forgotten about Ed � agreed, I'd like to see that too!
Speaking of transparency, remember when we had a NBN Co employee posting official information in these forums? I wonder what happened to him?
Kidnapped and gagged probably.
Probably taken out the back of nbn HQ and shot for being a socialist or some other trumped up nonsense!
Can't believe the drivel coming out of Pyne and Ciobo (or whatever his name is). Absolutely disgraceful.
I think the take up of streaming services like Netflix and the frequent TV adverts for FreeView and other catch up TV services show it's a very good line as it resonates with the electorate who are using it for just that. Far more voters are going to identify with using the internet for TV and movies than will see any relevance in 1Gbps services.
Good luck with that on the FTTN! You've also forgotten those who back-up to the cloud and use applications that require high speed internet access (without it, the application is useless). Last time I looked, the FTTN would need to be overbuilt for it to be "upgraded".
Speaking of transparency, remember when we had a NBN Co employee posting official information in these forums?
Wasn't that back in the NBNv1 era? Before NBNv2 took away the transparency and replaced it with a crumbling brick wall.
Speaking of transparency, remember when we had a NBN Co employee posting official information in these forums? I wonder what happened to him?
I remember Scott Rhodie, (/user/408887), but that was a long time ago.
Can't believe the drivel coming out of Pyne and Ciobo (or whatever his name is). Absolutely disgraceful.
they are just reciting a script
Bit like first level customer support you encounter when calling any organisation
wonder if the script writers have to wear hazmat gear when writing those scripts or if they have created a "script bot"
enter the keywords and it spits out Gospel
GIGO
Garbage in Garbage Gospel Out
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.a
It shows that more traffic will be crossing the internet per month in 2016 (110 exabytes) than it did for the entire of 2009 (108 exabytes).
Wrong.
NBN co have exceeded revenue and activation targets for 2016. That's why it won't be a major issue for the Coalition. There isn't much to be critical about.
Who cares?
You should. Anyone who swallowed the Libs "faster,cheaper" Koolaid should. The lack of HFC and FTTN connections after nearly 3 years should be very concerning. Everyone was supposed to have 25mbps by the end of this year for $29.5 billion weren't they? Questions need to be asked when the Libs are already years behind and double the cost. Why wont you ask the hard questions of the Libs?
Under the Coalition the NBN is going from strength to strength and the numbers prove it.
They don't. That's the point. How many connections from the 955,000 Pyne quoted are active HFC and FTTN?
Labor mismanaged the NBN.
Not anywhere nearly as badly as this government. Why are they so desperate to hide the truth that they have to get NBN Co to bring in the cops and ask the media along to film it all? Very,very sad state of affairs when a government tries to censor the media and the opposition.
You have to benchmark the Coalition's management against the Labor's historic record to see that Turnbull did a good job with the NBN.
Yep. How many connections from the 955,000 Pyne quoted are active HFC and FTTN? Turnbulls policy accounts for the HFC and FTTN bit, so how much is that?
When the Coalition got into government the rollout was in danger of stopping
Apart from yourself Says who.
Dr Mark Gregory of RMIT said that it would take an extra ten years for the NBN to be completed.
Getting your coulds and woulds mixed up again Kingy?
I don't know where you get the facts from, but it's clearly not from anywhere credible.
A stuttered facts generator.
:0>
Where in the hell did you get that 'the rollout was in danger of stopping.' ?
Simon Hackett, former member of the NBN Co board. He had inside knowledge of the true state of the NBN when Labor left office.
How do you know?
What released report had targets and results.
CP16 is a forecast report.
Where is a released report for results?
3 year plan held targets, yet it is in the void with no hope of ever being seen.
Karina needs to be asked what's up? She said 'March/April' in her last tweet. STILL WAITING
Why wont you ask the hard questions of the Libs?
It might burn like a vampire seeing the sun or mirror.
:0>
That's why it won't be a major issue
Getting your coulds and woulds mixed up again Kingy?
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow so you should go and blame him.
NBN co have exceeded revenue and activation targets for 2016.
50,000 FTTN connections was the target?
Who cares? Under the Coalition the NBN MTM is going from strength to strength nowhere fast and the numbers prove it.
Once you take away all those FTTP connections (Labor Policy) from the figures things don't look so rosy do they.
Turnbull did a good job with destroying the NBN
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow so you should go and blame him.
He never said what you claimed he did.
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow so you should go and blame him.
If we take Simon's word, then FTTN should be removed from the roll-out.
Next.
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow
Excuse me Kingy ... but that's a different story to where you said ...
Dr Mark Gregory of RMIT said that it would take an extra ten years for the NBN to be completed.
Would you like a front end loader to dig that hole?
Next.
Social media doesn't get to decide the next government the Australian voter does that.
According to Vote Compass, before the raids, Infrastructure didn't even rate.
Social media doesn't get to decide the next government the Australian voter does that
And who do you think uses social media!
Simon Hackett, former member of the NBN Co board. He had inside knowledge of the true state of the NBN when Labor left office.
Hackett also said FTTN was crap and shouldn't be used, and yet he has supported its rollout, even when its way behind schedule, and costing almost double what it should. He also said NBN Co was doing well when he left, and yet the leaks clearly prove otherwise. Hard to give him much credence based on reality.
The record of the Coalition's management of the NBN remains strong and credible.
LNP talking points 101, keep repeating and repeating, and it will sound true. This isn't 2013 anymore, the public has seen what rubbish mtm nbn is.
Social media doesn't get to decide the next government the Australian voter does that.
Random person on whirlpool doesn't get to decide what is hot or not in Australian voters minds.
Next.
Whatever he said exactly it's clear that he thought Labor's NBN was going too slow.
I agree, and he was quite rightly pointing to project shortfalls regarding timing and possible costs.
Nobody here is saying under the Labor Govt the NBN rollout was going flawlessly.
It had problems, they were learning and yourself / News Corp cheered on the LNP as they sniped and jeered from the cheap seats.
3 years on and Morrow and Co have taken failing to a whole new level.
But you fail to acknowledge ANY shortcomings of the current rollout or strategy.
Malcolm is definitely in charge and under his watch the public, the treasury and Australian business is being dudded on an epic scale.
The adults are not in charge.
The Howard and Costello era is gone and the spoiled children Abbott / Pyne / Turnbull etc. are pissing the inheritance up against the wall.
NBN co have exceeded revenue
Oh? isn't it at negative revenue?
and activation targets for 2016
err...So we're all connected then? wasn't the target everyone by 2016?
There isn't much to be critical about.
Yes there bloody well is.
...he could only re-iterate the company line, he couldn't even say "no comment" as that would be interpreted as a negative comment by ommision
Yep. That's my point. He is not the impartial and objective commentator that Kingforce is trying to make out.
The results of NBN Co customer surveys have been widely reported by media.
Oh those less then 14 people happy with FTTN.
Worthy of "widely reported"
https://simonhackett.files.
And he wasn't even there to know any of this. He seems to be, like you, singing from the LNP song sheet.
I know people who were there at the time and left, because they were disgusted with what a mess the company had become. Sorry, I'll take their word over the stories of someone who wasn't even there at the time.
you should go and blame him.
Whoa there...did I just read an LNP fan not blaming labor? What alternate reality am I in?
yes I know he was still trying to pass the blame off from LNP where it belongs, but atleast he didn't say it was labor's fault!
Morrow's NBN Co has passed 2 million premises which is nearly a quarter of all households.
How many of those are active HFC or FTTN connections? Morrow cant get credit what Labor put in place.
Morrow is supposed to be providing everyone with 25mbps by the end of this year. How is that coming along?
Whatever he said exactly
Because you sure wouldn't want to know that...
it's clear that he thought Labor's NBN was going too slow.
During the startup phase? Not from all he has said in the past...sure it could have been quicker, but quicker is usually much more expensive.
Mark Gregory is a pro fibre supporter
But not a political person...he wouldn't really care WHO came up with the best design, as long as it is built.
Morrow's NBN Co has passed 2 million premises
Maybe...maybe not. He has obviously been obfuscating the truth for some time, so I wouldn't accept that as a fact.
Didn't Mark directly address your claims of what he said in an earlier thread and compreshensively debunked your misrepresentation of his position?
He did. Kingforce is very clearly trolling yet again.
EDIT: Quote got left out for some reason.
Morrow's NBN Co has passed 2 million premises which is nearly a quarter of all households.
Point 1) the vast majority (95%+) of the 2M premises are those NBN V1 FTTP put in train � Turnbull's and Morrow's contribution was to slow that down to 40% build rate they cannot claim the FTTP as theirs at all other than they happened to watch such valuable magnificence get built. Their 2 � years of inaction for which they are solely responsible for is a miniscule contribution.
Point 2) NBN V1 was for 12M, presumably you exclude the HFC which the Optus portion is dead as a door nail so whatever way you look at it � not a qtr of rollout....but I note Turnbull, Morrow and disciples like your self choose to include Satellite and Fixed Wireless in claims, such cherry picking only serves for deception....but we are used to it
and NBN Co customer surveys show people are satisfied with speeds on the MTM.
Point 3) my previous response with quote form Cannington WA thread post, one of many similar posts, clearly proves your statement wrong and deceptive at best...look at the real world not the propoganda...
I don't know why I am bothering. This might sound like an attack. but are you mental? do you need meds?
No, in fact, I don't know why anyone would attempt to answer such convoluted drivel. The man is clearly mentally unbalanced. Is he in some sort of time warp? Nothing; no amount of truth or balanced reason ever seems to be considered. His arguments are so one-sided, I'm under the distinct impression he IS already on meds. Mind altering ones.
Just ignore him. He wants nothing more than to create havoc. He's a classic mindless troll.
Everyone here recognises that Labor could have handled some aspects better, but this is the Coalition thread, and they have been in power for almost three years.
And by every comparative measure the MTM has proved far worse and a disaster when you look at the posts of those getting FTTN now. I can't recall anything like these complaints from FTTP subscribers.
The results of NBN Co customer surveys have been widely reported by media.
Go check FTTN threads Kingy they are the real customers � they'd be too disgusted to bother with official complaints � I'd hate to be on the RSP help desks.
Just ignore him. He wants nothing more than to create havoc. He's a classic mindless troll.
The sad thing is that nothing is done about it. He (and GMZ) has a long history of trolling and yet he is still here. There have been posters who made much more valuable contributions that have been removed from the forum for much less. Does my head in. They wont substantiate anything when questioned, they keep repeating the same stuff, even when it is soundly disproven, they disappear soon after they post. All classic attributes of trolling according to the WP rules, and yet, here they still are, blowing out another thread.
You can almost pick if they have been here before even entering the thread. Just look at the page count, and if it has jumped through the roof, either something important has happened or KF and GMZ have been posting again.
Go check FTTN threads Kingy they are the real customers � they'd be too disgusted to bother with official complaints
I'd go one step further ....
Go on Kingy ... go and espouse the virtues of FTTN in those threads. You'll get the response your rhetoric deserves ... and even better ... it'll be on topic.
Ohh for Dog's sake Kingee!
Is that Turnbull's dog you are referring to...Turnbull clearly had (much more) inside info
Go on Kingy ... go and espouse the virtues of FTTN in those threads. You'll get the response your rhetoric deserves ... and even better ... it'll be on topic.
+10000000, retribution from unhappy FTTN users.
so the Liberals really have no idea how to cost their nbn� build, first it was going to be $29 Billion and now it is at the $50 Bullion mark and may keep rising.
Seems that they have problems with numbers of all sorts and whatever they say can vary by around $30 Billion.
Another example of Liberal inmumeracy is shown here
http://www.smh.com.au/federa
According to the LNP, aren't I supposed to be on the NBN and be getting my 25Mb by the end of this year?
Why then, does it say this, when I search for my address on the NBNCo website: ??
Where you stand within the nbn� rollout
Not currently available
IF I were, as the LNP said, getting on the NBN and getting 25Mb by the end of this year, surely work would be preparing if not started in my area, by now � Especially since I live in an old area?
Last I head, my area won't even be able to spit in the general direction of the NBN, until 2019 at the earliest!!
1. The rollout should never have been done using major contractors. This was forced on NBN Co by the telecommunications industry that would not entertain the idea that the largess could not be spread around. Dealing directly with the sub-contractors who actually do the work would have been the way to go.
I agree entirely. This is exactly what I've been saying since the very beginning. I think part of it was political too (Malcolm Turnbull was literally calling the NBN 'communist' as it was).
Dealing with the subbies directly would have required a lot more management and administration but in the end would have been far cheaper and more efficient.
7. The new management team at NBN Co have been careful to set targets so low that there was little chance the targets were not met � simply continuing existing contracts from the post-2014 changeover would ensure this occurred. 2 million premises passed in June 2016 whereas it should be 4-5 million now (see Rod Tuckers graphs of data from the corporate plans 2010-2016)
It's pretty sad to watch them try and convince the public they're doing a good job. The previous management were aiming for 10 but hitting a 7, and the new management try to tell us they're better by setting a target for a 3 and hitting it...
Dealing with the subbies directly would have required a lot more management and administration but in the end would have been far cheaper and more efficient.
And a lot less opportunities for political donations, gifts, board seats and lobbying role opportunities in the future.
Seems there are differing figures from many sources
Different point in timeline different figures � as to be expected.
948,739 are active customer services
Which is roughly the same as per ACCC data I used:
https://www.accc.gov.au
The main point, however, is the fact that ~80% of all cutrent NBN users are on ALP initiated FttP and less than 10% on Turnbull championed FttN ! Something you won't hear from the LNP or their supporters...
Quote: � Statistics from the ombudsman show that in this first quarter of this year, internet issues made up about 35 per cent of all complaints, compared to 26 per cent for the same quarter last year.
There were a total of 31,297 complaints during the quarter, an increase of 5.6 per cent during the same period in 2015.
So Kingy, Zealot, please confirm NBN Co Turnbull and Morrow Keisler must be telling lies as to customer satisfaction
Holy sheet.. look at Malcolms photo back then. He looked much healthier. Ahh the stress is really showing now. His like aged 10 years in 3?
Looks like he worked overtime in destroying the nations broadband future.
Being the sort of person he is, it takes a toll on the body and the mind and, ultimately, the spirit.
So Kingy, Zealot, please confirm NBN Co Turnbull and Morrow Keisler must be telling lies as to customer satisfaction
Each time they post, answer their post with only a link to an unhappy FTTN customer as an answer to any of their usual rhetoric and the usual recycled crap they spin.
See what poor excuse they will come out with but then again they would just ignore it and probably prattle away with their usual rhetoric.
but then again they would just ignore it and probably prattle away with their usual rhetoric
True, but I still like your idea; it engages the least with these time wasting wipes while countering their twaddle.
It was touted in this thread somewhere recently, that there was something around 2 million homes/premises connected to the NBN...But according to a Delimiter article from April this year, only 29,005 are FTTN.
Can anyone actually explain what � for the love of technology � is going on, exactly?
The confusion comes from not fully understanding what it is that the leaked document contains.
AIUI,that leaked document refers to the scale FttN rollout defined by 2 major agreements
PDSA � for design services
MIMA � for construction services
These agreements occurred after what is known as the JDWC agreement with Telstra (the ~220000? premises covered by the 1000 + 400? node construction trial, which began to be marked RFS from October 2015).
However, with costs exploding and only 29,005 FTTN premises reportedly rolled out so far � far short of NBN Co's 94,273 target refers to the premises passed targets for the MIMA construction contracts as at 12/02/16.
Of more concern to me is the FDD approved gap reported in that document. This is the difference between Final Detailed Design (the stage before construction commences) approval, targets and actuals
The numbers for this metric for 12/02/16 were:
Target � 1 402 909
Actual � 662 665
Shortfall � 740 244
It is this part of the rollout pipeline that will affect the FY2017 targets.
The most reliable source for active connections by technology is the figures provided by nbn to the ACCC for the period to 31/03/16, and released on the 29/04/16
https://www.accc.gov
That report indicates there were the following TC-4 AVCs (active connections) as of 31/03/16 with the FY2016 targets from the 2016 corporate plan in (Brackets after)
FttB � 7 469
FttN � 36 190 (75000 includes FttB)
**FttP Brownfields � 636 009 (590 000)
**FttP Greenfields � 152 548 (155 000)
Fixed Wireless � 100 958 (95 000)
Interim Sat � 34 881
**FttP brownfields (761557 FttP total minus 152548 greenfields from weekly data)
Unfortunately the ACCC report doesn't show 'premises passed' figures, and nbn weekly rollout figures for that date don't show technology split for brownfields. The following are my best estimates.
FttB � unknown precisely (~250000 including FttN as of 10/03/16 according to evidence to estimates)
FttN � assume ~300000 at 31/03/16 including FTTB (500 000)
FttP Brownfield � 1 041 450 (1 080 000)
FttP Greenfield � 259839 (260 000)
Fixed Wireless � 369970 (370 000)
Interim Sat � 34881
I have made the point, over and over again, that the much touted nbnTM management targets are nothing more than a sham. This is highlighted perfectly with the FY2016 targets from the 2016 corporate plan.
I cannot stress this enough. This is a document that was released in August 2015, and the actuals listed above are for the 31/03/16 not the FY2016 target date.
the new management
Would be dealing also with many different contractors, in respect to the additional technologies of the MTM.
It would be early days to judge how they are going. Or mebe not!!
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
Being the sort of person he is, it takes a toll on the body and the mind and, ultimately, the spirit.
Certainly a changed man....used to respect him but now...phph
As of April, it was just over 25,000.
Dont confuse 'premises passed' and 'active connections'.
My previous posts provides detailed figures for both as of 31/03/16.
The next ACCC report for active connections as of 30/06/16 should be available in July (probably late July).
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
True, but I still like your idea; it engages the least with these time wasting wipes while countering their twaddle.
Pretty much it.
See their drivel
Reply with someone who isn't happy with their FTTN connection link and leave it at that.
Just expose how crap the MTM is.
:0>
Simple short and who knows maybe even sweet.
Seems there are differing figures from many sources � e.g.
Absolute rubbish WhatThe ...... the rollout figures are completely transparent under nbn�. The correct figures are .... ummm .... hang on a minute .... the correct figures are ....... ummmmm ..... damn ..... I'm sure I had them here in a Bill Morrow non-ratified leaked non-nbn� 'For Official Use Only' document just a minute ago.
"Honey were the AFP in the house doing a raid again today? I seem to be missing some of my .. I mean their documents that were in my study."
The bush is waking up to Turnbull's easy way out plan by shifting customer from Fixed Wireless and FTTP to Satellite.
And I believe^ that under Quigley that once NBNCo had completed their proposed 93% rollout, they would have returned to the areas getting FW and would have commenced rolling out fibre to the FW areas too to replace their FW connection with a physical fibre connection.
^ Note that this is not based on any technical knowledge and my part. It's just my feeling that this would have happened. In summing up, it�s the constitution, it�s Mabo, it�s justice, it�s law, it�s the vibe, and�no that�s it�it�s the vibe. I rest my case.
And I believe^ that under Quigley that once NBNCo had completed their proposed 93% rollout, they would have returned to the areas getting FW and would have commenced rolling out fibre to the FW areas too to replace their FW connection with a physical fibre connection.
In some areas, maybe, but maybe not.
In low density areas, Fixed wireless makes a lot of sense. Its only problem is line of sight. So hilly areas � its near useless. Flat plains with large allotments, its near perfect. Easy, cheap, fast, for a low density area, its everything that a liberal nbn promises but cant deliver.
In fact, its probably better to roll out more FW than FTTP � to take more load of the poor satellites.
Note: the us (and south America) is having a massive surge of 'WISPs' Wireless isp's, fitting in the gaps using ubuiqiti gear and providing dirt cheap internet to places that otherwise struggled. Most of them are small business isps serving less than 500 clients..
In low density areas, Fixed wireless makes a lot of sense
Definitely. Wireless can be very high speed, its main problem is capacity. So it's pretty ideal as a primary access tech in medium density areas (close enough to reach enough subscribers with a single tower, but few enough that they don't swamp all the spectrum used by the tower).
And I believe^ that under Quigley that once NBNCo had completed their proposed 93% rollout, they would have returned to the areas getting FW and would have commenced rolling out fibre to the FW areas too to replace their FW connection with a physical fibre connection.
A logical progression. Quigley said himself there was opportunity to move to 94%....
I cannot stress this enough. This is a document that was released in August 2015, and the actuals listed above are for the 31/03/16 not the FY2016 target date.
Might take a little bit of time to absorb all that ozzie -thanks!!
It would be early days to judge how they are going. Or mebe not!!
Hate to repeat myself but it is quite clear just from looking at the posts on NBN Cannington WA where FTTN is just coming on board FTTN is a farce and apparently delivering much he same as ADSL when it settles down ....if that. Hate to think what it will be like when the nodes are fully populated
Its only problem is line of sight.
If NBN Co were smart they would have reutilised existing towers used for other services which already catered for the line of sight issues,...I stress, if
Which just makes the Labor party more beholden to unions
either party seems to be "beholden" to its biggest doners to varying degrees.
anymore discussion in here would be miles OT so i will cease now
Which just makes the Labor party more beholden to unions
Wrong tense, largely. Change makes to made, for complete accuracy. Labor is moving away from union domination over time.
"China? Really?
Which countries in EU have mandated rolling out fttp to 75% + of the population?
VDSL in Europe is growing faster than FTTP.
No government other than Australia's is "bankrolling" fttx. Some governments are subsidising it but most of the cost and risk is worn by the private sector."
Australia's circumstances are unique so it is not surprising that Australia might need a unique solution in internet provision as in other things. It's no argument to say "No one else is doing it". You actually have to make a case for why we shouldn't do it here.
NBN on ABC 702 starting at 37:40
https://radio.abc.net.a
Governments don't have the money to splash out on all fibre networks and telcos dont yet see the financial benefits.
You have to consider the best way forward all things considered.
The truth is that the Copper network in Australia is not in great shape as far as we know, and one problem is we still don't know.
FTTN is inferior to FTTH and seem to be costing a similar amount.
You can't take the costings given by the LNP/ALP as gospel and the current NBN management are handpicked by the LNP and have a tendency to hide information.
So what is probably needed is a full and open inquiry to establish the true position.
Install competent professional NBN management and free them from political interference.
It could be that FTTdp is the best way forward all things considered, but as far as I know FTTN is the worst way forward.
After listening to Mark on the radio FTTP as much as possible else we may as well give up.
No government other than Australia's is "bankrolling" fttx
How about Singapore?
In a government-led initiative to connect the island in a high-speed broadband network using various mediums such as fibre, DSL and cable, the Singapore ONE project was formally announced in June 1996, and commercially launched in June 1998. By December 1998, Singapore ONE is available nationwide with the completion of the national fibre optics network.
I'm sure there are others, check here if you are at all interested in educating yourself.
NBN on ABC 702 starting at 37:40
Nice cutting through the crap and telling what is what, Mark. Push the benefits to small business everyone, work on getting upload speeds higher.
Time is the most precious commodity of all, unless you can live forever.
I'm sure there are others, check here if you are at all interested in educating yourself.
To be clear, barryp was quoting rusty83.
25Mbps � some of the time
NBN's charge to give Australians access to 25Mbps internet speeds actually refers to wholesale speeds, which it sells in a range of speed tiers.
To meet its service level agreements, NBN must hit a stated peak speed just once in a 24-hour period.
That's right: it's contractually obliged to deliver its service speeds ... just once a day.
We can assume NBN will generally deliver above and beyond this minuscule requirement, but the company was not able to provide Fairfax with any data on its performance here.
Albo should have used this argument with Pyne on Q&A the other night.
That he did not think quick enough on his feet to come up with something like the above, is a real problem for Labor.
Some governments are subsidising it but most of the cost and risk is worn by the private sector."
I love it when this constantly trotted out "voice of reason" argument gets brought up. It completely and utterly disregards just how much of a failure our "private sector" has.
Of course a subsidy would normally be the best thing to push growth in a private sector assuming the market is a proper thriving one w/ competition. Not the pseudo-monopoly of Telstra over here. Which basically chose *not* to do any upgrades since it was cheaper/profitable to hold a status quo w/ minimal work outside of "keep the lines running"
We are talking about a company that basically said they throttled HFC speed at a time of growth because "it was more profitable and did not see the need for the customer to have access to said speeds". The same company that did such a cheapskate job that led to the term "RIM Hell" for folks who want ADSL in metro areas. This is the wonderful "private sector" that we should be relying on?
Australia's isolation allows our "private sector" to have very closed markets which means the provider not the consumer dictates control. However just because the provider finds it more economically "cheaper" to defer upgrades doesn't mean the world around is will be standing still.
Albo should have used this argument with Pyne on Q&A the other night.
Yep, the MTM should always state 25 Mbps* with the emphasis on the asterisk.
Link
1. The rollout should never have been done using major contractors.
That's all very interesting Mark but that doesn't change the fact that you believed Labor's NBN could take up to 2031 to be completed.
By the way, how come you never mentioned the contractor model during your Wendy Harmer interview this morning?
I really really hope Labor ditches Malcolm Turbulls mess when they win the election, I don't want to pay for a 100/40 plan and potentially only get 30/20. With fibre if I pay for a 100/40 plan that is what I would get.
That's all very interesting Mark but that doesn't change the fact that you believed Labor's NBN could take up to 2031 to be completed.
How long is it going to take lnp to complete 93% fttp?
https://radio.abc.net.au/pr
Wendy Harmer questioning Gregory this morning about why on earth Malcolm Turnbull be doing something as destructive as rolling out FTTN, if what Gregory says is correct, just highlights how naive and trusting too many people are of some of our so called leaders, to do the right thing when it comes to the National Interest of Australia and what is good for the Economy.
Bloody brilliant Gregory.
Harmer questioning Gregory on his political connections was just lovely.
The question on upload speeds and the loss of business from not having good enough upload speeds by one called was great to hear.
How long is it going to take lnp to complete 93% fttp?
If we were to switch back to FTTP now then NBN Co says it would take until 2026 to complete the NBN.
the MTM should always state 25 Mbps*
The ridiculousness of this is that I could already get 25Mbps now, instead of waiting til at least 2019...
My current ADSL downstream rate is ~1450Kbps.
With a bonded ADSL service, I could easily get the 25Mbps, though I probably shouldn't mention this to any LNP member!!
If we were to switch back to FTTP now then NBN Co says it would take until 2026 to complete the NBN.
So we'd get there much sooner than continuing with MTM first?
So we'd get there much sooner
*Waits for the obligatory 'completed by 2020' comment*
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