Have to say that since Abbott and his 'anything goes if it means power' approach,
For anyone thinking that any NBNCo staff are being unfairly singled out in this NBN Co debate. Lest we forget this.
It's on Hansard that Morrow has had discussions with her about her tweeting...
Karina, keep up the good work.
I have your back
Bill
Bill keep up the good work.
I have your back.
Turnbull
turnbull keep up the good work
i have your back
murdoch
That I appear to be the only human in the whole world who appears to have bothered linking these 2 public documents to this issue is rather bemusing
I was very impressed that you researched and found these documents. From another person in the whole world.
Karina, keep up the good work.
I have your back
Bill
Bill keep up the good work.
I have your back.
Turnbull
turnbull keep up the good work
i have your back
murdoch
One after the other!
Classic Copper!
I will never say that.
;-)
A nice addition Murdoch.
I was very impressed that you researched and found these documents.
All it took was to type into google search engine
"NBN Code of Conduct"
"NBN Social Media Policy"
and look at the first few links presented as results.
All it took was to type into google search engine
"NBN Code of Conduct"
"NBN Social Media Policy"
and look at the first few links presented as results.
Yes it was a small thing but look how many people were better informed from that small action.
Please note that there is no sarcasm in this post, although using sarcasm is one of my tools on Whirlpool.
FTTdp is generally associated with DPU in pits or on polls outside homes and G.Fast or some other technology into the home
Mark � awesome that you're on WP! I heard your interview with Leon Compton on ABC Tas radio last week ... should really be put up on Soundcloud or made available as a mp3 so everyone can listen. If you have time, a few quick questions on FTTdP. The last run into the home is still copper afaik, and a lot of that copper is degraded (water seepage, worn by age etc.) so do we have an idea of the remediation cost? Also, I'm guessing it's a far more natural & (hopefully) easy process to replace that last bit with fibre ... is that something that could be done at any time after the distribution point is implemented & would it require any equipment changes at the customer end (ONT/NTD etc.)? Also, this is the one I'd like to see properly costed by someone � if it's possible to run everything on poles, how does the cost of FTTdp compare with FTTN, is it still marginally more expensive or could it be equivalent or even cheaper?
It's on Hansard that Morrow has had discussions with her about her tweeting...
Only had to google search "Hansard karina keisler" to find this interesting exchange between Conroy and Morrow about Keisler's tweeting.
Senator CONROY: Mr Morrow, to your knowledge do all NBN officers avoid activities that could give rise to questions about their political impartiality?
Mr Morrow : I do.
Senator CONROY: Are you aware that a senior member of your staff, Ms Karina Keisler, has been tweeting links to partisan materials?
Mr Morrow : That was brought to my attention, and I have had a discussion with her about that issue.
Senator CONROY: And the person is now aware of her obligations under the NBN code of conduct and the GBE guidelines?
Mr Morrow : I would state that there was no malintent. There was no intention to show any partiality on a political side of things; it was merely an intent of supporting the NBN Co brand. She is very well aware of that and I think will adjust some of her thinking going forward.
Senator CONROY: And if any officer, given that it has now clearly been stated on the public record, engaged in that conduct, what would be your response from this point forward?
Mr Morrow : Do a proper evaluation and take the appropriate measures with that individual.
Senator CONROY: But unfortunately it is not the first time it has happened. NBN Co officials have actually attacked members of this committee directly in newspaper articles. I have raised it with the chair previously, who undertook to do something about it, but it appears that message has not got through yet. I just want to make sure, from this point forward, there can be no misunderstanding that you would view this as a serious breach of the code of ethics and code of conduct that is up on the NBN Co website.
Mr Morrow : I can assure you none of the management team want to be in the political arena. It is our job to build out and support the NBN Co as defined by the government.
Yes it was a small thing but look how many people were better informed from that small action.
So Journo's are reasonably intelligent people up on tech stuff as a tools in trade....how come they don't take two minutes to look that up before they hit the news waves........
Only had to google search "Hansard karina keisler" to find this interesting exchange between Conroy and Morrow about Keisler's tweeting.
And this amusing exchange between Morrow and Conroy at the end of the last Senate Estimates hearing.
CHAIR: Senator Conroy, you have time for one last question, because I have one very quick one at the very end.
Senator CONROY: Yes, okay. You are all aware of the caretaker provisions?
Mr Rue : Yes.
Senator CONROY: It is probably safest if you confiscate Ms Karina Keisler's phone for the period of caretaker!
Mr Morrow : We would love to!
Senator CONROY: It is probably the safest thing you can do. I am finished.
Senator CONROY: It is probably safest if you confiscate Ms Karina Keisler's phone for the period of caretaker!
Mr Morrow : We would love to!
Morrow should be (maybe he already is...) in politics...say one thing and do the opposite.
Do the provisions apply to CEO's ?
Anyone remember that infamous table comparing the Coalition's NBN to Labor's NBN in the the Coalition's plan for Fast Broadband and an affordable NBN?
http://www.malcolmturnbu
The one that answered Disruption at user Premises? with a No for the Coalition's plan, and a yes for Labor's plan.
Here's a good example from yesterday's media of the kind of disruption at user Premises the FTTN rollout is causing.
http://www.theherald.com.au/
Opposite Lock owners Gordon and Mel Allerton, said their business had been left without fixed-line services for 50 days due to three periods of disconnection caused by NBN work.
They brandished photos of tangled, ageing copper wire protruding from the telephone connection pit in their street.
�The photographs of the pit we have got just show that fibre to the node does not work in the old areas of Newcastle,� he said.
�Every time they try to connect someone to the NBN, all six of our telephone lines get cut off.
�We have had three outages in 16 months and we do not want any more. We need a long term solution and we believe in this area it should be fibre to the premises.�
He estimated the disruptions had cost their business between $50,00 and $100,000.
He estimated the disruptions had cost their business between $50,00 and $100,000.
The cost to consumers doesn't matter. Just as long as there aren't costs to the bottom line of nbn�. Tell 'em to 'arden up!
s/
He estimated the disruptions had cost their business between $50,00 and $100,000
Should have applied for FOD
Mark � awesome that you're on WP!
You can read up on FTTdP info here.
http://telsoc.org/ajtde/2014-03-v2-n1/a26
And Mark's piece here.
http://telsoc.org/ajtde/2013-11-v1-n1/a17
Upgrading from the pit to full fibre is an unknown although Telstra do a new POTS install for $299 if you dig a trench for them. Someone else might know what fibre PON hardware costs. NG PON 2 is supposed to be even cheaper.
Nice timing to release this in the middle of the Federal election campaign
What a coincidence that the report said the MTM design was prudent and efficient.
If we were more cynical, we might recall that consultants always seem to generate reports which neatly accord with the predetermined wishes of their larger and richer clients, including governments.
After all, if a client is very pleased with the first outcome, they may be much more likely to commission a lot more lucrative work in future.
I have your back.
Bill
I have your back.
Turnbull
I have your back.
Murdoch
Absolutely classic example of the food chain in action!
it is my understanding that a functional FTTdp is currently just a concept � unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll". I would think that NBN plans to use it are very presumptive and more "pie in the sky".
BT have been using both FTTdp G.fast equipment (in trials) and VDSL equipment (in commercial service for people too far away from the cabinet) for some time. It's not a myth
What a coincidence that the report said the MTM design was prudent and efficient.
Anyone that does not accept this is all stage managed has no sense of reality. The LNP operate to no rules, no morals, no ethics...just win and stuff the consequences of lies.... Turnbull has taken Abbott's low bar to a new lower level.
They are effectively sabotaging NBN in total and this country with it.
yup lets all be cynical cynic change the bodge figures around.. and you might get the true cost fibre install, vs the fiction of fttn and the latter fttdp install which no budget exists for its install..
malcolm is setting us all up for FoD when he already knows that which ever telco runs the network is still liable to this 1st point and forcing the consumer to pay for service replacement is not on...
my guess telstra is still charging $5,000 on the install of vdsl and its tech..
add 300-600 subscribers per D/A (node) and $100k is nothing but the piss money with min of 1,500,000 per converted d/a (node)!!!!!
add the math per exchange and council area and you will see the true cost of fttn/dp
They are effectively sabotaging NBN in total and this country with it.
And Abbott has the bare face cheek to call himself Infrastructure King.
And Turnbull with his "innovation" fluff as well.
BT have been using both FTTdp G.fast equipment (in trials) and VDSL equipment (in commercial service for people too far away from the cabinet) for some time. It's not a myth
Then why isn't it being rolled out for FTTB by either NBN or TPG? Its the perfect location for it.
The OP was right, its not ready to roll.
the only thing ready to roll is the top hat replacement audit and deployment which will be passed off as fttn..
malcolm is setting us all up for FoD when he already knows that which ever telco runs the network is still liable to this 1st point and forcing the consumer to pay for service replacement is not on...
Yep � ideological tunnel vision is user pays ...big time...that's what keeps economies going. That's how you look after the nation....jobs and growth..for some 'one' anyway....
Then why isn't it being rolled out for FTTB by either NBN or TPG?
This comes back to people conflating what FTTdp is with macrocodes and the like. G.Fast in building sized nodes IIRC doesn't exist. FTTdp in its true form is into the pit, that means a 4 port device that lives in the pit, usually reverse powered from the homes it services. This isn't something that is ideal to install into buildings.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
Humphrey: "Yes, well, always dispose of the difficult bit in the title. It does less harm there than in the text."
Sir Arnold: "It's the law of inverse relevance. The less you intend to do about something, the more you have to keep talking about it."
Anyone else see 7.30 Lateline tonight? Item on PNG female allegedly raped at Manus Island Detention Centre 12 mths ago. It took ABC 6mths to get an FOI response that was extremely redacted. The reason given for page after page of blanks was ..."it might affect relations between PNG and Australia".... a bit like 'Commercial in Confidence" stance with NBN Co I'd suggest.
NBN posters would recognise that situation fairly clearly.
Would anyone with the right info, examples of redaction etc, care to forward on the NBN experience....? It would be about time they took a peek at what is going on with this country's biggest ever infrastructure project and the farce it has been turned into ... at massive unnecessary expense to this country. They might also be interested in the AFP Raid as well just to top it off.....
Unlike SIr Arnold ... The less you intend to do about something, the more you have to keep talking about it... the LNP have made the mistake of not talking about it and hiding everything they can � out of sight out of mind...until it explodes
EDIT:
meant to add that the failed FTTN rollout, as posts in FTTN threads for specific areas are demonstrating, is a fine example of the start of an explosion.
Hi Fred, there are problems with copper into homes, and the solution is to ignore this unless the 25/5 cannot be achieved as this is what has been promised as the first tier effort. Remember the 50 Mbps by 2019 is not a core promise at this point, as this was part of a combined promise that has already been ignored (25 Mbps to all by 2016).
The reality is that FTTdp is a half way house, that means you can run the fibre yourself. But this does not mean it will be part of the Labor plan and the Coalition have already indicated clearly that FTTdp for more than the 300,000 premises identified is not happening.
It has been fully costed � FTTdp in a high density rollout costs about $200 more per premises than FTTN with the skinny fibre, improvements to rollout techniques and is much cheaper OPEX than FTTN.
Check out the savings in the Chorus reports.
that manus crap is over 3 years old my guess deflecting the stink from nbn is that goal..
i'm still waiting for the reason mally cum daily was given the telecommunications portfolio in the 1st place given the conflict he had in the past, at the current present, and the undeniable future within both the local and international scene of telecommunications..
line distance can be between 100-1,000 with the average medium distance of 250-750 meters making a fttdp deployment a problem not to mention ug power lines, gas and water mains on top of existing telco cable that pass the muster for vdsl use never mind g,fast on top of that,,,
forget g.fast. vplus is better, faster and serves more people at 550m range and is 7330 compatible.
i'm still waiting for the reason mally cum daily was given the telecommunications portfolio in the 1st place given the conflict he had in the past
Abbott's poison chalice....destroy NBN (and destroy your own reputation) and/or be destroyed by the LNP party.
Looks like it is the 'and' rather than the 'or' so from that standpoint Abbott's NBN poison chalice is a win for Abbott....but Abbott is gone (thank goodness), destroyed by Turnbull in (at the time) apparently successfully destroying NBN with the mirage that nbn FTTN MTM might be a success (he sucked the party powerful in), but time has caught Turnbull out and by him not delaying FTTN disaster long enough until after an election � allowing the world to see what a failure FTTN is � Turnbull has destroyed himself it would seem........ regardless of whether he wins the election or not, legacy of FTTN MTM failure will perpetuate...
Anyone else see a parallel with Labor's disastrous political suicide effort post Rudd 2007 ...... power is everything...bugger the electorate and bugger what's good for the Australian public.....
BT have been using both FTTdp G.fast equipment (in trials) and VDSL equipment (in commercial service for people too far away from the cabinet) for some time. It's not a myth
Neither is it a myth that the following severely impact obsolete copper based services such as FTTdp, G.Fast and obsolete VDSL services!
EXT, AXT, NEXT,
FM Transmitters
Environmental noise
Water Ingress
The gauge of the copper
High Open Faults
Oxidisation
AVC/CVC Congestion in Unicast services
The quality of the copper being used from the Node to your property boundary
The copper pair line length
The state of the copper inside your premise
Impulse noise
Industrial Noise
The state of existing shielding
MBORC (service Interruptions both planned and unplanned)
Bridged Taps both internal and external
Microwave ovens
Cordless Telephones
Spurious Radiation
Non compliant CPE equipment
Type of power back off being applied online both up and down"
Non compliant Central Splitters
Time of Day
Heat
Type of applications people are using (FTTN is a shared resource with limited spectrum)
SPGS" � Small Pair Gain Systems � which were originally designed to and the LNP will love this word "Economically" overcome copper shortfalls by combining several telephone services over a single pair!!!!!!
and
Telstra's "ISS" "incompatible" services" that actually "block" VDSL signals and have to be removed from the network!
Unsurprisingly we now see Portugal for example deploying a National NG-PON2 80Gbps service which can deliver "Concurrent" 1Gbps, 10Gbps, 40Gbps etc services across the same single piece of Fibre which dispenses entirely with the mess that obsolete copper based communication services like FTTdp, and GeeWhyisn'tmyInternetWorking (G..fast) simply can't deliver!
Cheers
Neither is it a myth that the following severely impact obsolete copper based services such as FTTdp, G.Fast and obsolete VDSL services!
I think FTTP is the superior option, but I was simply stating a fact � that FTTdp exists and is in use. There's no need to reel off why FTTP is great � I think everyone knows and has heard it already
As for your shopping list, it is worth pointing out that some of those issues can just as easily affect an FTTP service. (e.g. lack of backhaul capacity or lack of capacity in the PON network, "MBORC", issues stemming from a poorly installed or degraded installation, radio/microwave inference if the end user is trying to use wifi to their devices etc), and that the drastically reduced amount of copper in the loop would reduce/eliminate some of the other issues. in BT's case, the quality of the copper from the pole to the exchange is basically irrelevant, because the FTTdp equipment is connected at the point just prior to it going into each home
Then why isn't it being rolled out for FTTB by either NBN or TPG? Its the perfect location for it.
The OP was right, its not ready to roll.
Because FTTB implies lots of end user connections so you'd basically want to install a proper full fat DSLAM in the building. FTTdp (at least in BT's world) is more like a handful of connections, less than 10, served from "micronodes"
You've got to understand the NBN isn't selling 100/40 throughput, they're selling 100/40 sync.
Fttp delivers 100/40 sync 100% of the time, unless a drastic fault occurs somewhere along the path.
FTTN has no measure as copper line distance and quality is the main factor.
Throw in a shitty copper line in addition to congestion, battery, wrong pair faults. FTTN is deficient at 1km nodes. G.fast is good for 300m, vplus for 550m. Both would require fiber extensions (fttdp/micronodes). This is on top of the FTTN construction costs. The additions would most likely equate to being higher than an all out FTTP build.
HFC 3.1 is most likely going to disappear into the nether just like thunderbolt. It will be used by some but never mainstream.
FTTP is 1.
Fttdp w/ vplus 2.
fttdp w/ g.fast 3.
fttdp w/ vdsl2 4.
vdsl2 5. ? (upto 200m)
fixed wireless 5/6.
satellite 7.
Because FTTB implies lots of end user connections
Well that is certainly the case with Australia's massive boom of apartment builds in all states. Can anyone confirm that at least these have been prewired for FTTP, I am hoping that the design work for these has been influenced by design work being done in NBN V1 era... It would be a disaster if they have not at least been built with optic fibre in mind.
Must say that in WA at least it seems like 1970's UK council housing designs have been transplanted.... must be cheap off the shelf stuff.
I doubt that 15% of electricians even know what a fiber wallplate looks like. http://www.fs.com/c/fiber-optic-wall-plates-1003
Most likely apartments are wired for ethernet. 5e/6 to a MDU.
You've got to understand the NBN isn't selling 100/40 throughput, they're selling 100/40 sync.
Fttp delivers 100/40 sync 100% of the time, unless a drastic fault occurs somewhere along the path.
If you're replying to me, then I should point out that I understand all of this. I'm just saying that there is potential for congestion to affect either service � and it's not really a specific downside of going for FTTN. Especially when (it seems) that the only reason why node congestion exists is due to NBN's decision to go ultra cheap and use 1Gbit backhaul where 10G or more would be appropriate. It's not an issue that is inherent to the technology.
Both would require fiber extensions (fttdp/micronodes). This is on top of the FTTN construction costs. The additions would most likely equate to being higher than an all out FTTP build.
Perhaps, and I'd agree (I've argued this in the British version of Whirlpool in regards to BT's G.fast obsessions). But I'm not going to pretend that FTTP is flawless.
FTT"dp", at least in the way BT and equipment manufacturers describe it, would indeed need fibre to be run to the nodes (in BT's case, to pretty much every telegraph pole)- but don't forget that this needs to be done anyway whether you do FTTP or FTTdp. The same is true for any money wasted on FTTN � if it's spent and the equipment is in � you're going to obsolete it whether you replace it with FTTP or FTTdp
FTTP is 1.
Fttdp w/ vplus 2.
fttdp w/ g.fast 3.
An interesting choice. Isn't G.fast technically better than Vplus, given the short line lengths through the use of FTTdp? (and isn't Vplus some horrible ALu proprietary thing?)
As for your shopping list, it is worth pointing out that some of those issues can just as easily affect an FTTP service.
Shopping list!
Now that's disingenuous to say the least ---
So which specifically of the following issues impact the deliver of FTTH services again Ihardon????
FEXT, AXT, NEXT,
FM Transmitters
Environmental noise
Water Ingress
The gauge of the copper
High Open Faults
Oxidisation
AVC/CVC Congestion in Unicast services
The quality of the copper being used from the Node to your property boundary
The copper pair line length
The state of the copper inside your premise
Impulse noise
Industrial Noise
The state of existing shielding
MBORC (service Interruptions both planned and unplanned)
Bridged Taps both internal and external
Microwave ovens
Cordless Telephones
Spurious Radiation
Non compliant CPE equipment
Type of power back off being applied online both up and down"
Non compliant Central Splitters
Time of Day
Heat
Type of applications people are using (FTTN is a shared resource with limited spectrum)
SPGS" � Small Pair Gain Systems � which were originally designed to and the LNP will love this word "Economically" overcome copper shortfalls by combining several telephone services over a single pair!!!!!!
and
Telstra's "ISS" "incompatible" services" that actually "block" VDSL signals and have to be removed from the network!
*Noting of course that ALL of the Above impact severely and severally obsolete redundant 20th century copper based FTTN/Dp/B services communication services and then some!
So which specifically of the following issues impact the deliver of FTTH services again Ihardon????
I cherry-picked some in the part of the sentence you've managed to cut off with selective quoting.
I get that you keep wanting to push the "FTTP is best" angle, and I don't disagree with it. I'm just saying that FTTP is not flawless, and that some issues can just as easily occur in any access technology.
I get that you keep wanting to push the "FTTP is best" angle, and I don't disagree with it. I'm just saying that FTTP is not flawless, and that some issues can just as easily occur in any access technology.
Doesn't change the fact that it pretty much is, the only real faliures it does have is if it wasn't installed properly or the RSP themselves haven't given you the right plan/tierspeed you have chosen. Maintenance wouldn't need to happen for decades longer than copper. Don't get me wrong i'd be glad to have even just FttDP myself, anything below really shouldn't classify as a first rate broadband network. The problem here is we have these fools in parliament saying they are delivering a first rate network by 2016 at a minimum of 25mbps then saying trying to stealthily change it to 2019 AND THEN saying Australians don't need these speeds while the rest of the world is ploughing on leaving us in the dust. WE lost our chance at coming up the top of innovation because of politics. We could have started FttDP as early as last year with the cheaper developments made to it but because of political reasons it was denied.
["An interesting choice. Isn't G.fast technically better than Vplus, given the short line lengths through the use of FTTdp? (and isn't Vplus some horrible ALu proprietary thing?)"
https://www.alcatel-lucent.com/solutions/vplus
Can do upto 200 on a node upto 550m optimal distance.
It's a standard (35b) and isn't proprietary. Just the next evolution after 17a and 30a and best of all it's compatible with the 7330 hardware which is being supplied NOW to NBN.
G.fast is down to 16-48 customers upto 300m at optimal distance.
17a and 30a can't be vectored in the same cable bunch. So NBN would need to upgrade entire nodes. But with vplus it can be mixed with 17a for vectoring.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
If you have wondered at why some people keep repeatedly posting things here that are proven untrue and pay no attention to the answers, this might explain how it works.
Well, you know what they say, "If you cannot find an "expert" to backup your position, just keep looking and you will find one soon".
I doubt that 15% of electricians even know what a fiber wallplate looks like. http://www.fs.com/c/fiber-optic-wall-plates-1003
Cheap as chips. (NBN must be having difficulty finding ones with their logo on them?)
Cheap as chips. (NBN must be having difficulty finding ones with their logo on them?)
just remember that they are "blanks", no "connector" in them
One of the many elephants in the room for the NBN/MTM is the supply/demand for workers
nbn and all sides of politics have been pretty quiet on this subject since the middle of last year.
About time nbn proactively provided an update on how things are going, or the Federal Oppositions and the media started asking some questions about this pre-election.
Or are nbn going to counter any Federal Labor policy of more fibre with an announcement that due to labor shortages, that their nbn will likely not be completed until 2022, and that what is a 2 year blowout under the current plan would likely be a further blowout (up to 5 years) under whatever date Federal labor announce under their soon to be released plan? A delay that the nation can't afford.
http://www.theaustralian.com
(June 26 2015)
The company building the �National Broadband Network has warned that the project is facing an acute labour shortage, and it is planning to launch a training program designed to beef up its workforce.
NBN chief executive Bill Morrow flagged a shortfall of 4000 workers as the company looked to finish rolling out the network by 2020.
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
NBN has partnered with 10 TAFE and training providers in a bid to address a skills shortage of 4500 staff ahead of the rollout of its multi-technology mix network.
The new campaign, called Career Start, is part of NBN�s $40 million industry workforce development program, which aims to increase the rollout workforce to a peak of 9000 staff, and will also see NBN create a national skills register.
The campaign hopes to attract around 2000 school leavers to take up a career in telecommunications, with training and employment for successful candidates to be delivered through an NBN contractor or sub-contractor.
But with vplus it can be mixed with 17a for vectoring.
Assuming that the radiated interference from the >30MHz signal pushed down a 550m antenna doesn't see it killed by the ACMA.
Makes you wonder if it would be deployed in areas with above ground cables?
Tony Burke on ABC RN this morning. He was actually talking about UPLOAD! Was great to hear. ABC played some responses from business owners about how terrible FTTN/Sat was for business.
Didn't see the connectors? (1 to 4 ports.) Also cheap as chips.
Listening to the ABC Radio AM programme from Queenstown, Tas. One ADSL2+ user stated that VOIP would not be viable over satellite.
Another user talking about not being able to offer wi-fi to bed and breakfast customers.
Someone else talking about EFTPOS dropping out and not being able to use a cloud based solution.
BC played some responses from business owners about how terrible FTTN/Sat was for business.
The caller said that his work required the use of VoIP for communications and that VoiP was not possible on Satellite at the moment, meaning he thought he would lose his current job under the current NBN plan's for his area.
The caller said that his work required the use of VoIP for communications and that VoiP was not possible on Satellite at the moment, meaning he thought he would lose his current job under the current NBN plan's for his area.
Jobs and growth ..... Jobs and growth .... Jobs and growth.
/s
fixed wireless 5/6.
Isn't 25/5 and 50/20 speeds on fixed wireless better than FTTN .
With the exception of those users on FTTP fixed wireless users shall have the best form of NBN for years to come IMO.
Didn't see the connectors? (1 to 4 ports.) Also cheap as chips.
note this text towards the bottom of the page when you click on any of the images
"Note: The products which we are in stock are without adapters."
they appear to be selling "blank plates" :)
and now for something completely different :)
for all those saying the FTTP ONT should have been built with only 1 "UNI-D" port might want to take a look at the ONT that Telstra was providing in Velocity estates.
Guess what it has 2 "phone ports" 4 "RJ45" ports and it even has a coax connection
Made by Alcatel Lucent.
I would guess it is the same motherboard as the NBN ONT just with the co-ax section populated. it uses th esame power connector
Could it possibly be that the units are cheaper to purchase with 4 "RJ45" than to have a custom build with only 1 "RJ54"
see here document dated 2013, no idea if things have changed
Let's have a look at whether the specs or submissions for the Irish NBN equivalent (NBP) will even give FTTN a look in, and can be used to help destroy the Federal Coalition's claims of FTTN being the best solution to provide a minimum of 25Mbps download speeds. Minimum. Not average. Not up to. Not up to Peak/PIR.
It will be interesting to see if any of the 5 RFX respondents even has FTTN in the mix. Or if they do, what the evaluators think of FTTN as a solution. Watch this space.
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/comm
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/comm
Technical report (specs) for the NBP
Minimum specification for wholesale active access services
Source: Analysys Mason, 2015
http://www.irishtimes.com/bu
the National Broadband Plan (NBP), billed as the great panacea. It promises to replace this patchwork of technologies with one super-fast network, delivering connectivity to 750,000 homes.
The new tender specifies a minimum of download speed of 30 mbps and a minimum upload speed of 6 mbps.
the 30 mbps is not an average but a minimum
The five consortiums vying for the Government�s tender � Eir, Siro, Enet, Imagine, Gigabit � are all likely to mount bids using predominantly fibre technology as it is the fastest available.
Some of the local community in Queenstown, Tasmania having their say.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
Some of the local community in Queenstown, Tasmania having their say.
well nbn� have solved all problems over on the west coast, with possible service probelms, they aren't supplying them anything.
Guess it will be back to Satellite after the election though.
Thanks for the next 3 years suckers
Wonder what our nbn current or future masters could learn something from what Analysys Mason appears to be proposing for the Irish NBP in actually bothering to properly assess demand before they finalise where to efficiently and prudently allocate $ and resources on the nbn build?
However, a programme should be initiated by RSPs by which end users can register their interest in being connected to the NBP network before it has actually been rolled out in their area. This registration programme will be supported by the prior publication by the WSPs of details of the areas to be covered, giving six months� advance notification. The final drop could then be installed for interested end-users at the same time as the network is deployed outside their premises, leading to efficient use of resources.
NBP WSPs should publish a schedule of their planned network coverage and deployment,
made available through a public portal, to raise awareness among end users and allow them to contact their RSP(s) before the network is deployed in their area.
Hopefully publish more than once a year to the public.
The technologies deployed by the selected bidder(s), along with the services delivered, will need to have a clear, technical development roadmap. In addition, any roadmap offered and implemented during the contract period must also be commercially sustainable beyond the end date of the contract.
Guess that rules out FTTN nbn/MTM style.
Some of the local community in Queenstown, Tasmania having their say.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
"Everyone expects wi-fi now, and free wi-fi preferably � especially the Asian tourists, that is the first thing they ask when they get here... they generally won't even book accommodation unless wi-fi is available," she said.
Ms Chappell said she would not be able to offer wi-fi to her guests if the NBN was delivered via satellite.
"The biggest problem with the satellite is you're restricted as to the amount of access you have, so once you've used your monthly data there is no more," she said.
"So I won't be able to allow my guests to use wi-fi at all because I can't take the risk of them using it all and me being left with no wi-fi for the rest of the month and not being able to run my business."
From Switzer Daily, of all people, but it is written by Angela Catterns.
http://switzer.com.au/the-ex
Mary�s report makes us realise the future is almost upon us. It also makes me wonder why we continue down the path of building massive new freeways and why we have to convince ourselves we�re better off with a less than top-of-the-range NBN.
If the Government�s objectives are to be met, the Department will need to ensure that the minimum retail service delivered by each RSP meets the retail service obligations described in Figure 4.1. In practice, the NBP WSPs or an independent third party could carry out this
monitoring on behalf of the Department. For wholesale active access services, the performance of the retail service will be monitored between the NTE located at customer premises and the RSP�s Internet demarcation point (labelled as �Scope of RSP Monitoring� in Figure 4.2 below). In order to facilitate this monitoring, the RSP will be obliged to connect all of its demarcation points to a test server, as depicted in Figure 4.2.
In addition, there will be monitoring of the minimum performance of the WSP�s wholesale service between the NTE located at customer premises and the PoH (labelled as �Scope of WSP monitoring� in Figure 4.2 above), to ensure that the baseline wholesale service provided fully supports the target performance of the minimum retail service.
Analysys Mason's Irish NBP technical report recommend's the above strict RSP and Wholesale monitoring of performance to ensure that minimum Government targets are being met. Why does the Federal Coalition's Broadband Policy/SOE not demand similar from NBNCo and Australian RSP's?
but it is written by Angela Catterns.
http://switzer.com.au/the-e
Despite accepted wisdom, usage by older people is still quite significant. Those aged 55+ spend more than 21 hours across 22 apps per month.
This is true of the Internet.. I find this especially to be the case in my area . we are a community of retirees and the demand for fast broadband is just as strong as for the younger generation. In fact possibly stronger , because they have ownership of the residences and the money to spend of quality BB. In fact , many like myself find the internet is a necessity, especially with poor or no public transport and govt agencies shifting to online interface..
meaning he thought he would lose his current job under the current NBN plan's for his area.
Not to dismiss the issues with satellite, but I thought those areas would be retaining their POTS connections, so ADSL should continue to work.
https://delimiter.com.au/20
�It is extremely disappointing to see that under the current Liberal/National government, the NBN looks to have been set up to fail, and to do so in a miserable and spectacular fashion, for the sole purpose of pointing the finger at the previous Labor government and blaming them for the mess,� he concluded.
But it can't be seen to be failing before the 2016 Federal Election, otherwise it might cost them the election and Turnbull his current job.
6.2 Technical NGA assessment criteria
In order to establish whether an NGA broadband service is available at particular premises, the
following conditions must be met:
....
? the solution must be reliable and of good quality, and not prone to deterioration due to
interference and other ad-hoc external factors
That aptly describes copper based FTTN nicely. Unreliable. Poor quality. Prone to deterioration, interference and external factors such as rain, flooding and extreme heat.
a minimum download speed of 30Mbit/s must be achieved in the coverage area, to all users under normal operational conditions, considering the technology deployed or proposed, where the proposed backhaul network is designed to deliver 30Mbit/s download to all users when they demand it
When they demand it means being able to provide a minimum 30Mbit/s download speeds to all users during peak broadband demand hours.
the solution must rely on optical (or equivalent) technologies
? the solution needs to be able to support a variety of advanced digital services, including
converged all-IP services.
FTTN certainly relies on optical fibre but I'm not sure it will score too highly on being able to support a variety of advanced digital services.
It will likely get thrown out on the futureproof and upgradeability criteria alone.
Wrong!
It's unbelievable how in 2016, people still have such poor misconceptions about how the internet represents much more than internet streaming. For God sakes, we living in an era where IoT is becoming the norm of the households and how businesses operate � and here is a politician whom fails to grasps that the internet is a staple part of the future economy.
for the sole purpose of pointing the finger at the previous Labor government and blaming them for the mess
I do not agree with delimiter as they are also making News Corp and Telstra happy chappies as well.
the Irish NBN equivalent (NBP)
Ireland ..... isn't that where Malcolm kept quoting he wanted to start his MTM from. Said that he wouldn't have started in Australia or something like that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/bu
What does a small business owner in Co Tipperary have in common with a goat herder in northern Ethiopia?
They both need a satellite to receive email: one from the most barren, sunblasted place on the planet, the other from a European country which touts itself as a high-tech hub.
I'm not surprised that they're having trouble with getting broadband into Tipperary though as I always thought that ...
? It's a long way to Tipperary,
It's a long way to go.
It's a long way to Tipperary .... ?
Edit: PS I make no apology for trying to retain my sense of humour whilst Malcolm keeps rolling out his MTM debacle.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
Anyone think Mr Faulkner could be the brother of Johnny Vegas?
Ireland ..... isn't that where Malcolm kept quoting he wanted to start his MTM from. Said that he wouldn't have started in Australia or something like that.
If really pressed on his NBN role, the PM resorts to a rhetorical defence, blaming Labor for starting the project � his preferred wheeze is the Irish joke, "If you wanted to get there, I wouldn't start from here" � and mounting an elegant-sounding attack on the very idea that anything can ever be "future-proofed", a theme he hammered home when he took over the leadership. This is unassailable high ground for Malcolm Turnbull, but it is completely wrong-headed.
NBNCo is leaking and, if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal, management is hostage to every expensive consultancy in town, and senior staff are leaving, disillusioned, as what they thought was a nation-building project is turning into a politicised quagmire. As one former employee told me: "I'll be amazed if it ever gets built."
This is an unforgiveable state of affairs for such a vital project and, whoever wins the next election, the NBN will need to be redesigned again. Hopefully it will be done with the national interest, not politics, uppermost in mind.
Paddy Manning is a journalist and author of the recently published Born To Rule: The Unauthorised Biography Of Malcolm Turnbull (MUP).
http://www.abc.net.au/
Ireland ..... isn't that where Malcolm kept quoting he wanted to start his MTM from. Said that he wouldn't have started in Australia or something like that.
LOL
As far as I'm aware no one has ever picked Turnbull up on his "we wouldn't have started from here" nonsense and asked him where he would have started from, what he would have done and how he would have got a different result than Helen Coonan. I really, really hope someone does it. The answer could be a laugh.
if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal.
After the AFP raids, one can only imagine what that did to morale and trust.
NBNCo is leaking and, if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal, management is hostage to every expensive consultancy in town, and senior staff are leaving,
It has been setup to fail � only an ALP win will mean it doesnt.
As for news limited � they can go jump!
It has been setup to fail
If you scratch away the nbn logos on the side of the nbn vans, there's a Telstra logo under them ready to go :)
NBNCo is leaking and, if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal, management is hostage to every expensive consultancy in town, and senior staff are leaving, disillusioned
I see some agree with you.
In addition, any roadmap offered and implemented during the contract period must also be commercially sustainable beyond the end date of the contract.
That excludes FTTN and HFC.
FTTB would be a tough sell, but if you apply enough transparency* to the numbers it might make it across the line.
- like nbn, I have overloaded this descriptor. like nbn, I will not tell you what it means now.
If you scratch away the nbn logos on the side of the nbn vans, there's a Telstra logo under them ready to go :)
Rocky ... can you come down to the lockup please and bail me out? The AFP just raided arrested me for vandalising a nbn� van.
can you come down to the lockup please and bail me out
https://66.media.tumblr.com/
*flys to vegas*
One of the many elephants in the room for the NBN/MTM is the supply/demand for workers
Been a problem since day one... Pre build Labor/NBN CO were doing 'roadshows' talking to state govts (mostly contrary LNP), unions, industry bodies etc etc.
About time nbn proactively provided an update on how things are going,
Good luck � This weeks submission to ACCC is totally contrary to transparency ..regardless of what KK says.
or the Federal Oppositions and the media started asking some questions about this pre-election.
Labor and Greens have tried pretty hard in Senate Estimates to get some info but stone walled by NBN Co with Govt support. One might ask what they have to hide and I'd suggest the disaster that is evolving right now with FTTN rollout is self explanatory....
Or are nbn going to counter
It is quite apparent NBN Co/LNP govt will say nothing because the veil of secrecy...a la Border Security...is intended to drift all issues out of the public minds ..doesn't exist... Heard the expression that no boats are coming?...proven to actually be they are are still coming just not landing .... perception management
Listening to the ABC Radio AM programme
You missed the real 'elephant' in the report .... The LNP local member who has previously been reported as Sat is good enough because of cost and then under pressure of Labor's commitment to FTTP wanted to talk to the Minister for an alternative, is now apparently saying he wants FTTP too.... Maybe he got a no from the Minister and moved to survival mode.....Wonderful world of politics...!!
Wonder how many other communities are going to pop up now and put the same pressure on......
That excludes FTTN and HFC.
But if they could just increase the prices of FTTN and HFC, they could be commercially sustainable technologies for a while, providing
1. The elasticity of demand was low.
2. There was immaterial product substitution to >=4G mobile broadband
3. The barriers to entry for alternative technologies to overbuild the FTTN or HFC were high enough.
Maybe he got a no from the Minister and moved to survival mode.....Wonderful world of politics...!!
nah, just "survival mode" for the local electorate
"See I have done all I can to get you FTTP, so as I am such a good person please vote for me just remember what Aophie said a couple of weeks ago, the same will apply re FTTP"
The LNP local member who has previously been reported as Sat is good enough because of cost and then under pressure of Labor's commitment to FTTP wanted to talk to the Minister for an alternative, is now apparently saying he wants FTTP too
If the LNP is not careful, they'll be a breakaway real "Country" party, inspired by what the current LNP is not doing for regional Broadband, that will consign the "N" in LNP to the big "Nothingness" it currently appears to be.
Wonder how many other communities are going to pop up now and put the same pressure on......
A bit like giving one of your 10 kids a brand new iPhone, and then having to manage the fallout from the have nots.
anyone got a link to Tony Burke on ABC RN this morning?
Has anyone told them the bandwidth required for Hololens and the like?
anyone got a link to Tony Burke on ABC RN this morning?
https://itunes.apple.com/pod
Tony Burke on ABC RN
would this be it
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/
I'm not surprised that they're having trouble with getting broadband into Tipperary though as I always thought that ...
? It's a long way to Tipperary,
It's a long way to go.
It's a long way to Tipperary .... ?
Edit: PS I make no apology for trying to retain my sense of humour whilst Malcolm keeps rolling out his MTM debacle.
The MTM is certainly a 'rarey'. We need to shove it over the nearest sea cliff we can find.
if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal
Actually, morale has been low for a very long while. Many keep putting on a brave face because they need their jobs. They really do not have their hearts in the job.
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
I wonder if it is like the "cheaper, faster, sooner" mantra they spouted before the last election?
The absolute stupidity of this is that even more money will be spent on a dead end technology. The LNP is doing what the old woman who swallowed a fly did. It is a never ending vicious and expensive circle that leads nowhere!
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN.
Well at least the Liberal's policy is strong on details. I wonder if Kingee and GMZT will be calling for Labor's NBN policy release to be as strong and as forthcoming on detail! /S
I really don't see how Labor will be able to match the Liberal's MTM policy though. S/
My Dog what an absolutely nothing bloody press release from Mitch. I imagine that he's been agonising over the drafting of that for the last 4 weeks of the election period!
Edit: added another sarcasm symbol just to make it clear.
Oh dear. It start off with a fact error:
Labor�s National Broadband Network (NBN) would have taken six to eight years longer to rollout across Australia
No. It would take 6-8 years longer if they were to abandon the dogs breakfast they've created now, junk all the work they've done on HFC and FTTN over the last three years, and go back and finish the FTTP rollout.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
https://delimiter.com.au/201
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
It does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
I made that 4 weeks to hit that target. How many on FTTN or HFC?
It does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
Well a portion of the 2.36 million premises (with FttP) will be RFS whereas a portion of the 2.36 million premises (with FttN) will be RS.
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
+1
The MSM will probably ignore it, which is probably the intent. Let's see what the tech media make of it.
Labor�s already tried and failed to deliver the NBN. They can�t be trusted to bring broadband to Australians.
When first you don't succeed, try, try again.
The release of the Labor NBN Policy and Plans will need to explain why they can be trusted to do a better job if given a 2nd chance, and to come up with a good argument on how the Federal Coalition can't be trusted to deliver on their NBN promises, can't be trusted to complete the NBN, and can't be trusted to invest in Broadband wisely.
It's rather amusing that the "nbn" is no-where in sight in this press release. With all references to the NBN in upper case.
does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
How many of these are going to be "we flipped the switch on hfc, now users can connect to the same network they have been able to access for 10 years already" and claim it as a success to pad the numbers...
How many of these are going to be "we flipped the switch on hfc, now users can connect to the same network they have been able to access for 10 years already" and claim it as a success to pad the numbers...
Cue ridiculously large high voltage knife switch and obligatory pyrotechnic show?
And Turnbull with his "innovation" fluff as well.
He seems to believe that if he just keeps repeating agile and innovative, nobody will ever think to check whether the Glorious Emperor of MTM is fully clad.
Or wearing anything at all � apart from his beloved corroding copper, of course.
Blackpaw writes...
http://mitchfifield
Media Contacts:
Justine Sywak � 0448 448 487 (Fifield)
Les White � 0409 805 122 (Nash)
Tempt for Texting rising.
My favourite bit is this:
Labor�s National Broadband Network (NBN) would have taken six to eight years longer to rollout across Australia, leaving businesses waiting longer for superfast broadband.
It's true, it would have taken 6 to 8 years longer ... if the Coalition had finished the MTM NBN 2 years ago :-).
It's true, it would have taken 6 to 8 years longer ... if the Coalition had finished the MTM NBN 2 years ago :-).
Be fair � we have to allow for the fact that there were probably two years lost while the vast Telstra legal department negotiated their way to exactly the takeover negotiated settlement they wanted.
agile and innovative
About as agile and innovative as a slime mould.
a simple organism that consists of an acellular mass of creeping jellylike protoplasm containing nuclei, or a mass of amoeboid cells..
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
I wonder if this is here as a reaction because of the happy snaps the NBN staffer made/sent of papers whilst looking for leaks everdance in Conroy's place.?????????
It does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
The FY2016 target is 2.632 million. The figure as of 26/05/16 was 2.556 million.
How many on FTTN or HFC?
The 2016 Corporate Plan FY2016 for FttN is 500K, for HFC is 10K.
EDIT: According to Weekly Progress Reports
Greenfields target was passed � 12/05/16
Fixed Wireless target was passed � 31/03/16
Satellite was lit up � 05/05/16 (target hasn't been actually passed � but most likely a mixup)
Brownfields target = 1.59 Million
As of 26/05/16 it is = 1.45 Million
(But dont be surprised to see a heap of FttP and FttN lit up in the next 4 weeks as companies try to get FY results pumped up)
How many of these are going to be "we flipped the switch on hfc, now users can connect to the same network they have been able to access for 10 years already" and claim it as a success to pad the numbers...
See above.
It's true, it would have taken 6 to 8 years longer
Actually, the truth is we will never know. The time required to complete Labor's NBN is no longer knowable. The time required to actually complete Malcolm's Terrible Misfeasance is also likely to be uncertain.
That media release pretty much sums up Fifields entire contribution to the NBN debate.
That media release pretty much sums up Fifields entire contribution to the NBN debate.
https://twitter.com/senatorf
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
5 hours after tweet launch.
1 retweet (fat fingers)
1 like (self adulation)
A roaring succes/s
https://twitter.com/senator
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
Here's my top 4 from a selection of tweets in response to the above half hearted attempt at attacking Labor's NBN plan that has not actually been released yet.
BS Mitch. Taking us us mugs huh? Keep lying and you loose the election based on the #nbn lying alone.
With a 50-100 year lifespan....vs your rubbish which is already obsolete. Your cost up to $56b as well. Nice try Mitchy.
oh, and your definition of "superfast" internet is about 20 years out of date.
Does your costs cover more AFP raids?
Here's my top 4 from a selection of tweets in response to the above half hearted attempt at attacking Labor's NBN plan that has not actually been released yet.
He will have to sit in a large bucket of ice after to soothe those well deserved burns.
Ever wondered why NZ have had much more success with their FTTH roll out....No now grossly oversized quasi govt NBNCo (with it's now 5000+ bureaucratic staff), and the majority of the design and implementation work being carried out by the private sector. Seems that our Au politicians on both sides of the political divide could learn quite a bit from our near neighbours.
The FY2016 target is 2.632 million. The figure as of 26/05/16 was 2.556 million.
Yep, but that's from the 2015 corporate plan. When the LNP attacked Labor at the last election they used figures from the 2010 corporate plan. The equivalent now would be the figures from the SR. On those figures the LNP is around 2.5 million RFS down. Labor is doing and has done sfa on those numbers. Why??
here's ye olde simple factoid of information whether you rollout fttn or fttdp you require fibre to be deployed..
typical lan specs are too 100 meters or less for speed variant at distance, though how deploy speeds past 100 meter over copper is the problem when you start looking cable accesses between 250-1000 meters from the pit to 1st point..
unsure what d/a cost is to convert from copper to fibre..
though the cost of the fibre>vdsl/adsl gear retails at $750-$1,500 USD for 4 port vdsl/8 port adsl model or the 8 port vdsl/16 port adsl variant.. though no guarantee to speed you get from cat-5e/6/6a/7/7a past 100 meters of copper cable.
though the last quote i got from telstra to provide vdsl off a 3km D/A with a total line length from the D/A at 1.5 km was about $5,000 a lot different to what is claimed in a report to parliament..
you can pass what i say off as complete bullshit and rubbish, though before you dismiss what i say off hand you may want to drop telstra a line and ask for an install quote for vdsl before you comment..
do your research om the hardware typically being install for vdsl services and plausible outcomes for fttdp deployment..
apart from the fraud deployment costing claiming fttn/dp is cheaper and quicker to deploy...
there has yet to be true costing to this fttn/dp delivery farce to this date, there is no projection cost of maintaining the copper either..
i believe the earth quake cemented nz's fate to push to fibre optical reality..
Ever wondered why NZ have had much more success with their FTTH roll out
Primarily because of what the NZ Government did in successfully splitting up the incumbent Telecom New Zealand cleverly and strategically putting the long term NZ national interest ahead of the short-term Telecom New Zealand shareholder pain from a halving of the share price as a result of the split.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_New_Zealand
In 2008, Telecom was operationally separated into three divisions under local loop unbundling initiatives by central government � Telecom Retail; Telecom Wholesale; and Chorus, the network infrastructure division. This separation effectively ended any remnants of monopoly that Telecom Retail once had in the market. In 2011 the demerger process was complete, with Telecom and Chorus becoming separate listed companies
2006, 9 May: An audio clip recorded on 2 March was released involving Telecom CEO Theresa Gattung admitting the use of confusion as a chief marketing tool in the industry. The March recording also dismissed the New Zealand Government as "too smart to do anything dumb" with regards to regulation.
When the LNP attacked Labor at the last election they used figures from the 2010 corporate plan.
You are right they did indeed.
The equivalent now would be the figures from the SR. On those figures the LNP is around 2.5 million RFS down.
Actually the SR figures are CY2016 not FY 2016. I suspect this was deliberate to make direct comparisons more difficult. But you are correct that the SR numbers are way out due to HFC delays.
Labor is doing and has done sfa on those numbers. Why??
Well they did basically reject the SR in its entirety. Maybe they are not prepared to stoop so low? ;)
https://twitter.com/senator
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
5 hours after tweet launch.
1 retweet (fat fingers)
1 like (self adulation)
A roaring succes/s
I got tired of scrolling through the dozens of angry replies and I am somewhat amazed � 0 positive replies. Normally you'd get some glued on old LNP lovies, but it seems even they can't stomach that much bullshit.
they cooked the books to make it look like fttn was cheaper to install when the opposite was the actual truth... when it was cheaper to actually replace the copper network with a fibre 1..
Primarily because of what the NZ Government did in successfully splitting up the incumbent Telecom New Zealand cleverly and strategically putting the long term NZ national interest ahead of the short-term Telecom New Zealand shareholder pain from a halving of the share price as a result of the split.
Telstra has effectively been bought out, and what is still the ongoing problem with the delivery of the NBN in Au.....Yes, it's the common factor, the quasi govt bureaucracy at the NBNCo who still are not properly managing, and certainly won't take on the direct management of the workforce doing the installation works.
Don't take my word for it, have a chat with some of the prime contractors and their workforces to see why the project continues to be off the rails.
well what do you expect when you malcolm's shrills in power at nbn co..
Labor�s National Broadband Network (NBN) would have taken six to eight years longer to rollout across Australia, leaving businesses waiting longer for superfast broadband.
Ahhhhh! Mr Fifield needs to look at the scope for NBN which was Residential not business. Business/CBDs was never the focus but if they were in the mix then they got lucky..... not anymore though with FTTN, Business should be lamenting the LNP lack of vision.
Under the Coalition, the rollout of the NBN is on budget and on track to meet its corporate plan
Telstra are pretty pissed off being shortchanged by $3B due to lack of cutovers.... ie. slow rollout, delays, low end Plans, take up...must wish they stayed with FTTP eh?
n April this year, rural and remote Australia began to connect to NBN�s Sky Muster Satellite Service, delivering internet speeds that are faster than many urban areas.
It is noted that due congrats are not offered to Quigley and NBN V1 regime for putting that in place for Fifield to take the glory.....
Under Labor, the NBN Interim Satellite Service was poorly managed, slow and congested.
I'd like to see the nitty gritties of that � just a wild statement otherwise
Labor�s already tried and failed to deliver the NBN
but but but ....the only stuff working in Fifield's quagmire is Fixed Wireless, Satellite and FTTP...all Labor NBN initiatives and started under NBN V1 ...FTTN, LNPs only contribution, is a disaster
God, please make Labor win the next election...... the lies are just too much
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
After nearly three years they still can't get into governing mode and are stuck in opposition mode.... does Fifield have any idea at all what his Ministerial responsibilities are....?
The FY2016 target
Thanks for the data Ozzie...I still hold the vies that if my high school and Uni pass marks had have been reduced to 40 % of the norm I could call myself a genius.
Though repetitious , Telstra doesn't seem to like the targets as they are $3B short on the Agreement, so how can the 'reached' targets which are so much feted by Fifield, Turnbull and Morrow be considered realistic in pure business terms....?
If the 'feted' targets are realistic why are taxpayers stumping up $500k through Cormann's office for consultants to work out how NBN Co can fund and complete the project. ATthis stage NBN CO were supposed to be generating enough revenue to pay back the govt and fund itself....not happening Jan.....!!
I got tired of scrolling through the dozens of angry replies and I am somewhat amazed � 0 positive replies. Normally you'd get some glued on old LNP lovies, but it seems even they can't stomach that much bullshit.
I suppose that the paid trolls who frequent forums to argue government propaganda aren't paid to visit minister's own websites, so that may be the explanation for the lack of support.
Telstra has effectively been bought out,
You might have to expand on that a bit....
ministerial, nothing there about that their plan was to do jack shit for 4 years, as it was prophetic of the lnp retaining power at the next election.
though i'm betting that it doesn't happen and high ranks within the lnp are going to be shitting themselves them backing malcolm, and they will be ducking for cover not to see themselves inside of a prison cell or worse in the docks on treason and fraud charges..
the ones not on life sentences will likely end up on death row..
Where are Kingy and Zealot...??? ...even Fifield..."
I want them to keep telling me how good their FTTN is...!!
It was unable to be installed due to network shortfall.
To make matters worse I've had no adsl for 1.5 weeks and both telstra and tpg will not let us go back to adsl. Now i am stuck with no Internet for an undetermined time.
Wow man thats just sad.
There are so many of these stories. I hope they spread the word how bad FTTN is, from signup to actual service.
Where are Kingy and Zealot...???
They've finally developed the psychological concept known as 'logic', and are now in hiding, due to shame, for supporting such a disgraceful technological implementation...
...Let us all sing songs of praise!
When the election rolls around, I'm voting both upper and lower, for whichever party, and whoever, is adamantly pursuing FTTP.
I will ACCEPT FTTdp, BUT ONLY with the ability to Opt-In for FTTP, at a REASONABLE cost, FOR EVERYONE; MUCH unlike the current situation of an ESTIMATED $5,000+ for a single premise, and then have NBNCo stall and delay and avoid.
As I posted previously � My area isn't due for even so much as CONSIDERATION, until 2019, at the current rollout rate.
I sincerely hope and pray, that, by then, we are either back to FTTP or FTTdp with opt-in for full FTTP at a REASONABLE COST!
https://delimiter.com.au/201
God i hope they don't come to the western suburbs... Sorry to those in pakenham for FTTN, although fixed wireless and HFC doesn't seem that much better tbh
lnp masters of the con, confusion, conflicts of interests of business dealings...
spreading lies to boot...
LNP masters of a con and fiction.
I wonder what happened to "sooner, faster, cheaper"? After all, it was Malcolm Turnbull who kept telling us this at the last election, and that he had a "fully costed plan"!
it is called winging the bullshit and lie off their face and pass the blame games to the adnorsium.. cloister..
as for fully costed they've cooking the books so long they wouldn't know which was truth...
only solution is to blame labor, to the hilt hoping the bullshit and mud stinks them out...
sad to say both sides are to blame for the state of mess we are in.. they are equally to blame, more lnp...
I wonder what happened to "sooner, faster, cheaper"?
https://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies
The SOONER they can get voters to forget about their various UP TO 2016 sooner, faster, cheaper NBN plans, the FASTER they can attempt to offload, failing NBN Co network assets back to Telstra, at a massively CHEAPER net benefit to Telstra and News Corp (via Foxtel), than if Telstra had invested their own $ to upgrade their HFC and Copper Networks in the first place, or News Corp had built their own fixed lined PayTV content delivery infrastructure.
I wonder what happened to "sooner, faster, cheaper"? After all, it was Malcolm Turnbull who kept telling us this at the last election, and that he had a "fully costed plan"!
Remember this and where we are now, what a total mess generated by the LNP .http://www.theregister.co.uk
Swift1 Only By Fibre writes...
http://www.theregister.co.u
Abbott told parliament that under his government "pits and pipes "will not be touched" over last 500m,"
That partly explains why all the back-tracking on FTTdp located in the pits.
"NBN equals asbestos equals stop the network � that's just crazy"
Can't wait for the Federal Coalition to bring out the Asbestos bogey-man scare tactics, after Federal Labor release their NBN election policy of fibre deeper into the network. I'd be amazed if they didn't bring out this one again.
God i hope they don't come to the western suburbs... Sorry to those in pakenham for FTTN, although fixed wireless and HFC doesn't seem that much better tbh
Fifield & his cronies or FTTN?
Unfortunately if your talking about FTTN it's definitely on the way. The Kings Park rollout which covers my area is rapidly nearing completion & will be active by the end of the year, August in my suburb. :(
Just came across this article by Nick Ross 20 May 2016 that I had missed and was posted in this forum but apparently not discussed. It's well worth a read along with the Nick Ross article of 2012 lined below that Nick cross refers to in his recent article.
http://www.abc.net.au/techno
Huge doubts cast over Coalition's 'cheaper' NBN alternative
They've finally developed the psychological concept known as 'logic', and are now in hiding, due to shame, for supporting such a disgraceful technological implementation...
you must be new here... :P
"Under the Coalition, the rollout of the NBN is on budget" Hmmm, I wouldn't call a massive cost blowout from $29 billion to $56 odd billion 'on budget'
" and on track to meet its corporate plan target of 2.632 million premises ready for service this financial year." Revisionism at it's finest, anybody remember "25Mbps for everyone by 2016"?
Interesting it complains "the NBN Interim Satellite Service was poorly managed, slow and congested", the very system the LNP insisted was all that was necessary! Of course the interim satellite service was slow and congested, that's why we needed new ones.
It then goes on to say "In April this year, rural and remote Australia began to connect to NBN�s Sky Muster Satellite Service, delivering internet speeds that are faster than many urban areas". So basically boasting about the very service that they said wasn't required, and which Labor went ahead and ordered anyway. Lucky thing somebody found the satellite slots!
Too bad there are going to be a lot more users than was previously required. I understand the second satellite will be required immediately on commissioning, rather than just being an active spare.
RockyMarciano writes...
http://mitchfifield
I feel that Mitch Fifield is like a wind-up doll that has been switched to Evil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vTCzi8WY3Y
https://twitter.com/senator
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
5 hours after tweet launch.
1 retweet (fat fingers)
1 like (self adulation)
19 hours after the tweet and still only 1 retweet and 1 love/like.
It's as though ppl reading it are just reminded that
Under the Federal Coalition's NBN plan you'll have to wait at least 4 more years and someone will have to pay double the original forecast price than was previously promised under the Federal Coalition.
When you don't have anything positive or constructive to say and you don't want to draw attention to your team's flap-ups, then just STFU. Especially on public Social Media like twitter.
http://www.morningstar.com.a
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
if the negotiations were under way BEFORE the election was called than I can't see any, as NBN Co are supposed to carry on doing what they do.
If negotiations started after the election was called, then it may move into an area of concern
Forgot who linked this video, but just watched it https://youtu.be/WZRiuT5I7e4
Few surprises (for me anyway) for hfc on slides 4-7
Hfc requires 2 devices in premises, NBN supplied NTD plus an RSP supplied gateway. And if the customer wants cable TV they need a third device. And even if the customer attaches a ups to these devices, the network doesn't work in a power outage.
Also "existing phone sockets won't have dial tone unless connected to voip gateway by a registered cabler at end user cost" � yet another cost shifted to the customer if they require a home phone (personally I haven't had one connected in 10+ years but I imagine this will most affect the people who least want to change over to nbn) how is this "cheaper"? Every step of the way we have been conned by mtm.
That media release pretty much sums up Fifields entire contribution to the NBN debate.
Which in turn can be reduced to a few words � much like that famous prescription in Animal Farm:
'MTM all good, NBN all baaad.'
Great to know the comms minister is just as knowledgable as most of his predecessors.
Fifield & his cronies or FTTN?
Unfortunately if your talking about FTTN it's definitely on the way. The Kings Park rollout which covers my area is rapidly nearing completion & will be active by the end of the year, August in my suburb. :(
:(
i live in 2 suburbs with divorced parents. My mums area getting fixed wireless next year at werribee south despite some areas of werribee and point cook having FTTP, the only area possibly even getting FTTP in Werribee South is the Marina which isnt even finished. My dads area of Altona Meadows is getting HFC if that hasn't been halted (i did see fibre backbone being installed near the Laverton train station), this year. Neither option i am happy about.
I hope one day, they will pay for what they have done. Being remembered as the most useless government in the history of Australia isn't enough with the way they have crippled our country.
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
None. It's business as usual, and it's not the government as a government owned company, not the government. Government owned companies are not affected by the caretaker convention unless what they do/announce is of political significance (e.g. the announcement related to DOCSIS 3.1 rollout that is supposed to come later this month has been flagged as being of concern, although NBNco claim the announcement was scheduled long before the election was called.)
Basically NBNco have a letter of expectation they are supposed to work towards until another LOE comes along.
the announcement related to DOCSIS 3.1
I thought it isn't 3.1 yet? At least full duplex aint happenin for a while...
Also LOE?
A great real life example of actual difference in technology using current policy (LNP) vs the previous policy.
A great real life example of actual difference in technology
and The sad thing is that is FTTP vs FTTB which is much better then FTTN as a comparison.
difference in technology using current policy (LNP) vs the previous policy.
A real world example and very telling of the state of affairs that is the LNP broadband policy.
Wynne has been in contact with Optus, who said there is nothing wrong with the network installed to his premises. NBN, in turn, said there is no issue with the NBN network in his area.
This could be a technical fault, an issue with the customer's modem or wiring, or the amount of data capacity that the retailer has bought in that area."
These sort of issues are really going to diss off customers. Where neither RSP or NBN will take responsibility. What a clustermuck!
What a clustermuck!
It says ...
His home network was lucky to get nine megabytes per second. "And at night, when everyone is streaming TV, forget about it. I tried to download a movie at home the other night. It was going to take 23 hours.
What would cause FTTB to deliver just 9Mbps download and why is it so much worse at peak times? Possibly more to the point, why don't the NBNCo and Optus seem to care?
What would cause FTTB to deliver just 9Mbps download and why is it so much worse at peak times? Possibly more to the point, why don't the NBNCo and Optus seem to care?
My thoughts exactly. FTTB in the absence of congestion should be at least 50Mbps and probably 100Mbps. And since it is an MDU, congestion between the DSLAM and the Access Aggregation Switch is unlikely because the number of premises sharing the backhaul is low.
The fact that it slows down in the busy hour tells us that there are problems between the node and the Optus network. Most likely explanation is that Optus simply have not purchased enough CVC at that POI, and that the problem is not in the NBN at all.
It's also quite possible he has a shitty drop cable and his connection is syncing at 10Mbps to his home gateway. I've seen that one before. I was once in a small ISP and you wouldn't believe how many customer complaints we fixed by dropping a good Cat5 drop cable into an envelope and mailing it out.
The quote is megabytes per second, not megabits per second.
Good pickup. Although the author seems to be so bad he might actually mean megabits.
Still 9 MBytes/sec would be pretty good download speed to any real server. I wonder if the guy might be comparing how long it takes to download off their in-house server when he's at the office or at home?
Government owned companies are not affected by the caretaker convention
nbn� say they are affected by the caretaker convention (and they have already been accused of breaching it).
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Still 9 MBytes/sec would be pretty good download speed to any real server.
9 megabytes per second for 23 hours is over 720 gigabytes. Looks like someone might have made a mix up with their figures somewhere.
9 megabytes per second for 23 hours is over 720 gigabytes.
The quote was His home network was lucky to get nine megabytes per second. "And at night, when everyone is streaming TV, forget about it. I tried to download a movie at home the other night. It was going to take 23 hours.
9 MBps = 72 Mbps. So his home network gets ~75% of his work network speed? At night the speeds are less � (1 movie per 23 hours). This is not a very precise metric but is probably significantly less than ~72Mbps.
Edit � actually a re-read show the speeds are messed up.
Tests showed Wynne's studio rarely gets download speeds of less than 95 megabytes per second, even during peak periods. His home network was lucky to get nine megabytes per second. "And at night, when everyone is streaming TV, forget about it. I tried to download a movie at home the other night. It was going to take 23 hours."
Typical carp journalism. CARP! :)
Additional Edit: Perhaps the studio is a Gbps?
I dont really think so but it could be. Optus did have 1 Gbps service according to the NBN Wholesale report as of 31/03/16.
Additional Additional Edit:
It isnt Gbps � He signed up to the same plan with Optus, offering the same speed and unlimited data as his work connection.
See edited post
He's comparing ftth with basically fttn..
Wynne's apartment is also on Brunswick Road, just three kilometres from the studio. Six months ago the NBN network was installed. He signed up to the same plan with Optus, offering the same speed and unlimited data as his work connection. The difference is, instead of fibre to the premises, the optic fibre cable only goes as far as the basement of the apartment block. From there it is dispersed via the old copper network.
A great real life example of actual difference in technology using current policy (LNP) vs the previous policy.
Mark Opitz is a legend, it was worth a read for that alone.
But this doesn't even touch on one application of fttp that studios will find super important in the future.
With a low latency fttp connection it is possible to have session musicians play live, from a remote location, in a recording session.
This is a competitive advantage for a studio as it reduces costs for their customers and increases the talent pool.
Thus is not a hypothetical use either, I have spoken to someone in Brisbane doing this now.
The quote is megabytes per second, not megabits per second.
Yeah, and it also stated 95 Megabytes per second for the FTTP connection.
Typical of journalism now given the lack of sub editors.
Thus is not a hypothetical use either
Indeed, I have made or at least attempted to make use of such possibilities for over 20 years.
And studios these days do not have $4k/month for ridiculously slow ISDN.
P.S. Just look at the collaborative features built into DAW software like Steinberg Cubase these days.
These sort of issues are really going to diss off customers.
They are, so it's a pity the number of endusers involved isn't much higher during the election campaign.
The coalition has a great deal to answer for, over the way it has imposed the woeful MTM policy.
Where neither RSP or NBN will take responsibility.
This seems a familiar and longstanding situation � you only have to substitute Telstra for nbn� there, and that kind of scenario has been going on for many years. It seems nbn� have learnt well.
Good pickup. Although the author seems to be so bad he might actually mean megabits.
It does seem that way, in the context of the article. So it sounds like the intention was to mean 9Mbps.
Which suggests there could be a number of other factors arising from that particular FTTB installation. Yet another reason for endorsing the use of FTTP, as a means of trying to reverse that Aussie plunge from 30th in the world to a lowly 60th.
as a means of trying to reverse that Aussie plunge from 30th in the world to a lowly 60th.
I saw a graph the other day where we are 67th, and out ranked by countries you would never have thought would have come even close to us.
We are a joke in the international stage when it comes to Internet connectivity. Yet all we see our government do is brush it off as though that is enough to raise our ranking!
We are a joke in the international stage when it comes to Internet connectivity.
Yes, so thank God we now have a government that fully understands the need for innovation and agility.
With a rap like that they're bound to do the right thing about restoring our global broadband rating.
Which suggests there could be a number of other factors arising from that particular FTTB installation.
This is where I keep getting to. Forget the FTTP argument for a while ... FTTB is a tried and tested technology. So's FTTN for that matter. They've been used successfully around the world. Why is the NBNCo having so many problems here? It's hard to see it being the technology itself. So is it the copper or the backhaul to the node or something else. It's hard to tell with the CVC issue muddying the water. Perhaps that's how the NBNCo and the RSPs like it.
Can you just imagine the outcry's is the Government invested over $50B on upgrading Broadband Networks and most premises could only usually get <15Mbps download speeds during ever lengthening peak usage hours on the upgraded Networks.
Trying to blame the premise owner/occupants or the RSP's is just not going to wash it with the public.
NBNCo can sing until the cows come home about how they are meeting their targets to deliver XYZ PIR line speeds to the RSP's.
The Federal Government will be held responsible for ensuring that the NBNCo wholesale pricing and regulatory regimes for the RSP's, and consumer laws actually result in the minimum speeds that are required during peak hours.
This could be one of the biggest election issues at the next but one Federal Election in 2019 (or earlier if the next Government does not last it's full term or goes for an early election).
This is where I keep getting to.
Exactly (you're not the only one).
Why is the NBNCo having so many problems here? It's hard to see it being the technology itself. So is it the copper
Both the FTTN and FTTB tech are well proven elsewhere, so why are we still being fed this nbn� line that they have to run long, multiple pilot installs to see if it actually works?
Does the tech magically undergo a form change when it crosses the equator � or is nbn� dragging it out until the election is safely out of the way before the reality can be exposed?
FTTB is a tried and tested technology. So's FTTN for that matter.
FTTB i can accept, FTTN i can't. I mean yeah it's been used worldwide and they probably didn't have as much installation problems as we do but why should we use outdated technology while the rest of the world is moving on? Why are we using such technology without even planning ahead especially for a large country as ours? Because it isn't about whats best for Australia anymore, its whats best for them. They don't care to see us suffer, they care about their pockets.
moved from other thread
gpon writes...
FTTN delivers a solution faster for the vast majority of people.
But at what cost?
Does the massive cost, justify the benefits?
How much will it cost to upgrade the FTTN?
What will be the foregone benefits and missed opportunities, and damage to the economy, business, other organisations and the Australian people and workers of all ages, from having FTTN as opposed to something better?
What will be the risk of the costs of upgrading or overbuilding the FTTN being so great than any substantial wide spread upgrade of the FTTN is delayed far beyond when it is needed?
Does the massive cost, justify the benefits?
According to the SR ... scenario 4 (no FTTN) matches the roll out speed of the MTM (with FTTN), is cash flow positive in the same year as the MTM, delivers a similar IIR to the MTM and craps all over the MTM for performance of the end result.
There is no justification for FTTN. Never has been.
Both the FTTN and FTTB tech are well proven elsewhere, so why are we still being fed this nbn� line that they have to run long, multiple pilot installs to see if it actually works?
Because if they told us the truth, which is that there is a 2-3 year lead time getting the OSS/BSS in place for a new (to them) technology, nobody would believe them? The pilots are to give the developers something to test their code on....
Seriously, this explains most of the delay in FTTN and HFC deployment. FTTP deployment, on the other hand, has been running along at a fairly decent clip because they started on the back end for that in 2010 or so.
According to the SR ... scenario 4 (no FTTN) matches the roll out speed of the MTM (with FTTN), is cash flow positive in the same year as the MTM, delivers a similar IIR to the MTM and craps all over the MTM for performance of the end result.
There is no justification for FTTN. Never has been.
Yeah, I wonder how the current regime would justify the decision?
This could be one of the biggest election issues at the next but one Federal Election in 2019
And Turnbull,Telstra and News Corp shall be remembered for the Billions wasted on this crap project.
Why didn't they send Christopher Pyne to Computex... He may have learned something...
https://newsroom.intel.com/e
...the transformational impact technology has on industries around the world. Billions of smart and connected devices, new data-rich services and cloud applications fueled by the Internet of Things (IoT) will bring new and exciting experiences to our lives, ushering in the next wave of computing.
As video approaches 80 percent of all Internet traffic*, delivering visual content quickly and efficiently via the cloud is a top priority for service providers.
As an example, Intel showed a 360-degree live-streamed virtual reality jazz concert delivered from the legendary Blue Note Jazz Club in New York to Computex using hardware-assisted 4K video delivery on Intel Xeon E3v5 servers.
And with every experience comes enormous amounts of data. The machine learning revolution is expanding insights across every form of computing. From autonomous driving to media to health, technology is freeing human potential with intensive compute power operating on massive datasets.
Yeah, let's throw some rotting copper at that, and Bob's your VR Uncle...
FTTP deployment, on the other hand, has been running along at a fairly decent clip because they started on the back end for that in 2010 or so.
More to the point, it is actually a much easier deployment from a design perspective...
We are a joke in the international stage when it comes to Internet connectivity. Yet all we see our government do is brush it off as though that is enough to raise our ranking!
We have always been a joke since Dialup / ADSL telstra days. Its this monopolistic company plus the howard (LNP) sell off of telstra that is the cause for today's internet and its substandard in Australia.
Somehow the guys at Telstra thinks that every bit that traverses through the networks have arbitrarily high value like magic dust or something. So they charge like a wounded bull.
Mean while you go overseas, you can download / upload as much as you want. These telcos don't place value on the bits going through, they just want people on it and market share.
This same mindset of giving us crap internet still exists today? why? so they can extort people with business plans.
Meanwhile the world has moved on, the productivity/brains of this country will also move with it overseas and Australia won't get the money. Another few more years of this nonsense, insane housing prices and generally gouging rip off culture. I can tell the young will leave for overseas opportunities.
Innovation, LOL, do the libs even know what it means? Juuubbbs and Graoath. LOL. In their dreams.
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
Just read this. The Chaser could not have done a better parody
For those who have not seen it:
But Labor
But Labor
On track and on budget
growth and jobs
We are also delivering broadband to businesses and homes in our regions. (um, also? OUR regions?)
We deliver SkyMuster (the sat Mal did not want)
But Labor
But Labor
But Labor
"gpon writes...
FTTN delivers a solution faster for the vast majority of people."
LOL yeah right...
What will be the foregone benefits and missed opportunities, and damage to the economy, business, other organisations and the Australian people and workers of all ages, from having FTTN as opposed to something better?
Exactly FTTN is well and truly the master of false economy on a grand scale.
"gpon writes...
FTTN delivers a solution faster for the vast majority of people."
Faster than what????
Hmmm � 5CPK -10 in S.A., RFS 13/5, and so far no-one has been able to get a connection, and have received no feed-back other than a generalised 'the is a problem with the network'. I hopped into the 6CAN [Canning] thread to to get a gist of how they were travelling. It looked a little like the same problems there.
It looks like the LNP dreams of getting a few areas hooked up to FTTN � and not quite enough so that people get an inkling of the contention and back-haul problems that will be coming are back-firing badly.
Hmmm � 5CPK -10 in S.A., RFS 13/5, and so far no-one has been able to get a connection, and have received no feed-back other than a generalised 'the is a problem with the network'.
Sounds like it's only "premises passed" and not actually RFS.
Hmmm � 5CPK -10 in S.A., RFS 13/5, and so far no-one has been able to get a connection, and have received no feed-back other than a generalised 'the is a problem with the network'. I hopped into the 6CAN [Canning] thread to to get a gist of how they were travelling. It looked a little like the same problems there.
I'd be concerned that there is a push to get areas RFS even if they are not ready because (a) it makes the current MTM look better than it actually is and (b) the NBN Co board may get a "bonus" that they actually do not deserve. While both are deceptive conduct, I am pretty sure the last one would be considered a crime.
If the flooding of FttN cabinets does occur with
Will I can tell you now, the fttn cabinets will be completely submerged around here.
Will I can tell you now, the fttn cabinets will be completely submerged around here.
Can't wait to see how the MTM comes out of the other side of the wild weather the east coast of OZ is experiencing this weekend !!
Just a hunch.......terrible !!!!!!!!!
Can't wait to see how the MTM comes out of the other side of the wild weather the east coast of OZ is experiencing this weekend !!
One can only imagine how many MTM workers will be diverted to fixing the nodes and copper over the next month as a result of this weekends East Coast Low(s), and what impact that has on the FTTN build, activations, diagnostics, repairs, fixes and professional installations. It's only going to draw more attention to the NBN/MTM pre-election and highlight the critical role that Government plays in delivering Essential Services, and assisting and leading in times of personal hardship during disaster recovery.
Mally cum lataly can no longer comment as such should b silenced given the conflict of interests he hides so well..
i started a thread for the city of belmont, off the ascot exchange, we are ear marked for fttn yet they seem to keep pissing money down the drain in doing minor repairs instead of overhauling network to be suitable for fttn, fttdp or fttp, they have spent money pissing it down the drain doing nothing in the last 3-4 years it is becoming a standing joke...
Will the history books record it was the Early June 2016 East Coast Low wot won it and turned the lights out for the Federal Coalition, with its reminder of what happens when you mix copper and water,
You have posted in the wrong thread...
With Phg's post I've started a thread titled 'Flooded FttN Nodes' (whrl.pl/ReDBI7).
Will I can tell you now, ...
Good attempt at trying to guess my real name U T C but my name isn't William. ;)
Jav
Good attempt at trying to guess my real name U T C but my name isn't William. ;)
Warning, warning...danger Jav Robinson...;)
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
Need to know timeline of contract etc however it is not unwise for Decmil to make an announcement now so as to establish expectations and advice of expenses incurred gearing up for FTTN ..in case Labor win and cancel contracts.....tidy payout can be claimed for 'change of mind' by NBN Co � the Telstra methodology.... get paid for nothing
nd it's not the government as a government owned company, not the government.
Morrow made commitment in Senate Estimates they would follow convention as if a govt dept......
Sounds like it's only "premises passed" and not actually RFS.
No its RFS. Just when you try and sign up � a tech will be booked and an install date arranged.
That day the booking will lapse, you'll be assigned a new date in a few days with the excuse "Network Shortfall". Process repeats in a few days.
As for the claims that FTTN is faster � they are a lie. The rollout stats themselves show that building a full FTTP area is not significantly slower than doing FTTN over an area. We are NOT rolling out FTTN noticeably faster � and that doesn't include areas like the above � which are marked for RFS but clearly aren't.
Need to know timeline of contract etc however it is not unwise for Decmil to make an announcement now so as to establish expectations and advice of expenses incurred gearing up for FTTN
What I found strange about the announcement is that it says Construction activities have commenced with the NSW regional centre of Wagga Wagga. Does this mean that they started work before announcing the agreement?
Not arguing. Just picking up on the points you raise ...
That day the booking will lapse, you'll be assigned a new date in a few days with the excuse "Network Shortfall". Process repeats in a few days.
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
As for the claims that FTTN is faster � they are a lie. The rollout stats themselves show that building a full FTTP area is not significantly slower than doing FTTN over an area. We are NOT rolling out FTTN noticeably faster ...
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
I have dealt with a few of these, the fibre required does not have a path or is too long to reach the premises from the multiport. Usually civil works is required to fix this, that can take months. I have found that if you escalate thru the nbn co itself it tends to get addressed quicker by the contractor.
I am not in the same league as Colin Wynne. But I am a student of electronic music. I would say that the whole article should be shoved down the throats of every LNP senator. If they hadn't already been brainwashed. This is what I have said many times on these forums about MASSIVE files being used in music production.
p.s I have received the Telstra gateway for FTTP. So I have got what Colin has got. Luckily.
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
Could be a myriad of reasons. Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
Not complete sure, that fact is just based off of the build stats.
I have dealt with a few of these, the fibre required does not have a path or is too long to reach the premises from the multiport.
The area in question is an FTTN area, where nbn� claim that the node is RFS but nobody can successfully order a service.
The area in question is an FTTN area, where nbn� claim that the node is RFS but nobody can successfully order a service.
Thanks for the clarification, I have only dealt with it in FTTH activations. Now that's troubling, RFS a node, when it's not ready, now that's one way of meeting targets.
Could be a myriad of reasons. Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
Where I get to is ... if a node is RFS then all the backhaul and power is in place and there's a port for anyone who wants one. If that's not the case then it's not RFS. If it is the case then what can "network shortfall" mean?
Are they declaring nodes RFS when they are not ready?
Not complete sure, that fact is just based off of the build stats.
Yep, I wasn't doubting what you said. I'm just wondering what's going on at the NBNCo that they can't roll out FTTN as fast as they should. The same goes for FTTB. Are they holding back for some reason? For example, have they run out of money?
Where I get to is ... if a node is RFS then all the backhaul and power is in place and there's a port for anyone who wants one. If that's not the case then it's not RFS. If it is the case then what can "network shortfall" mean?
In regards to FTTH rollouts, my communications with the RSP/Nbnoc, vision stream who the contractor was, a network shortfall had to do with the fact that you couldn't get fibre from the multiport to the premises, for some reason. Logical reasoning, you would think that in a FTTN scenario, it would mean their is no fibre to the node. Then why is it RFS?
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
If they roll it out too fast, might they run out of money as the wholesale revenue from activations likely strongly lags behind the rollout expenses.
Are they declaring nodes RFS when they are not ready?
An increasing amount of reported enduser experience suggests that may be the case.
Perhaps there are two factors at play here � a desire to stress that MTM targets have been 'fully met' before the election campaign is over, coupled with an attempt to ensure that not too many people are actually online via MTM.
It would be very embarrassing indeed for the coalition if a significant number of people were to start complaining about lousy MTM service during the election campaign.
So the question is: Has the presentation of the MTM situation been influenced by any political issues?
If they roll it out too fast, might they run out of money as the wholesale revenue from activations likely strongly lags behind the rollout expenses.
Good point. There's also the payment to Telstra for the customer cut-over. The payment to Optus/Telstra could also explain the slow progress on HFC. I reckon you could be onto something here.
Are they declaring nodes RFS when they are not ready?
Not very quick on the uptake today CMOT? :P
Yep, I wasn't doubting what you said. I'm just wondering what's going on at the NBNCo that they can't roll out FTTN as fast as they should. The same goes for FTTB. Are they holding back for some reason? For example, have they run out of money?
I'm guessing that bringing a clapped out old voice network up to the standards for FTTN � is extremely difficult. It was never designed for this.
Laying fibre isn't as hard as everyone believes it is. In Saint Mary's Adelaide (where a few issues are highlighted atm) its mostly overhead wiring, and that would be extremely easy to simply drop in the splitter and wire a whole street.
In fact, doing that would be so easy, I do not see what benefit FTTdp could possibly provide.
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
Man hours is the biggest cost so how many man hours would be needed to see if the local copper is fit for use, and remediation as needed? Then going back a few times for every incident of poor speeds? In fibre's case, as long as there is room in the pipes (or using thinner fibre) you save time by just running fibre through the conduits.
This is the throwaway society making things cheaper to replace than repair but on a massive scale.
Could be a myriad of reasons. Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
Exactly. I think it may be an euphemism for saying your connection does not work. It begs the question of how they determine a node is RFS. They could not have tested all the copper lines to all premises on the node.
In Saint Mary's Adelaide (where a few issues are highlighted atm)
On Node 5CPK-10-3 there are 217, with approximately the same number of "issues" on each of the other 19 nodes on 5CPK 10 � the "issue" being that no-one has yet been connected that anyone in the forum knows off.
It could be that only whirlpool contributors are missing out as we are most likely to complain about what is delivered, but I'd need a whole aluminium suit to be dressed to make that claim :-/
Does this mean that they started work before announcing the agreement?
To be honest IMO from observations on Perth streets there would be little doubt Telstra has been doing works for FTTN since late 2013. Lots of yellow barriers popped up in a number of locations and left there for months. There was extensive fibre laid from Cannington Exchange etc etc. Lets not forget that FTTN would appear to be little more than an upgrade from Telstra's Tophat tech. That's well prior to revised Telstra agreement too....
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
Can only mean spin for network not completed yet/not ready. NBN do not have services that can be connected at that point in time obviously.
RFS and/or premises passed stats would appear to be counted but services can't be connected.... lies lies and more lies IMO
Can only mean spin for network not completed yet/not ready.
That sounds like it.
It's a bit amusing, if like me you have that sense of humour � Turnbull in opposition never ceased excoriating NBN Co for designating areas as RFS before they actually were, and now his nbn� seems to be doing exactly the same thing.
RFS and/or premises passed stats would appear to be counted but services can't be connected...
But they have met all their targets!
It would be churlish to suggest there might be a little, er, imagination being applied here, surely?
I'm guessing that bringing a clapped out old voice network up to the standards for FTTN � is extremely difficult. It was never designed for this.
Yeah, but this is true overseas as well. Is our copper worse to the extent FTTN is not feasible but they don't want to admit it before the election? You could be right. They're going to have to face up to it soon though.
Man hours is the biggest cost so how many man hours would be needed to see if the local copper is fit for use, and remediation as needed? Then going back a few times for every incident of poor speeds?
I think checking the copper comes down to connecting a customer and seeing what happens. From what I've read here, if there's a problem it may or may not get fixed.
It begs the question of how they determine a node is RFS.
You're not on your own with that question :)
Yeah, but this is true overseas as well.
Most overseas countries with clapped out copper are not futilely attempting to retrofit FTTN.
They are doing the sensible, logical, correct, agile and innovative thing and installing FTTP or FTTdp/FTTB.
From what I've read here, if there's a problem it may or may not get fixed.
Or it may get duck-shoved seemingly for ever, in the apparent hope that the enduser will get fed up and give up.
Most overseas countries with clapped out copper are not futilely attempting to retrofit FTTN.
Except the UK. And even they have admitted its a complete mistake.
and their housing density is so different to ours. sharing walls with neighbours in streets where the houses look near identical and are 1/3 the width of Aussie house, obviously no side yards for a lot of them (being joined!) .
Even if the UK was giving FTTN top marks the difference in average distance from exchange or the efficiency of how many people you can run off a node would be cause for concern
Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
If the entire SAM is like this then it should not be classified as RFS. As I understand it, the trigger is ~90% of premises must be able to order (and have installed) a service before a SAM can be declared RFS. A quick look at recent FttN activations show SAMs ranging from 1000 to 4200 premises.
See http://www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker/recent/bf
A quick investigation of the recent activations, suggest the entire SAM 5CPK-10 is classed SC10. Quite a few of the others from this list return the same result. The issue is not isolated to FttN SAMs.
I suspect there is an issue with the source data jxeeno is getting.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 targets.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 targets.
They shouldn't call an area ready for service if it isn't just to meet they're targets so they don't look bad.
They are doing the sensible, logical, correct, agile and innovative thing and installing FTTP or FTTdp/FTTB.
I was trying to keep away from this argument, not that there is one really, and focus on what's happening with FTTN. As far as I can see there are two possibilities: the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable and/or the NBNCo is running out of money.
Whatever it is, they're not going to tell us before the election. It will have to come out after the election though whichever side wins.
They shouldn't call an area ready for service if it isn't just to meet their targets so they don't look bad.
No they shouldn't, no matter how much political pressure may be being applied behind the scenes.
This would be a particularly egregious practice for nbn� to follow, given the previous never-ceasing Turnbull rampage against NBN Co for allegedly doing exactly the same thing.
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
When I had my FTTP service activated this was reported. When I spoke to my RSP (iiNet), they said there was something about the NTD serial number not being recognised. I was asked to check it. As the installers had left the boxes for me to dispose of I scanned the serial number on the box and discovered there was a S on the front as there were two barcodes � the part number and the serial number. The Part number had a P for checking that was to be discarded and the serial number an S.
I called iiNet back and they confirmed the number provided when the installers scanned the data through they included the S.
Once corrected, the service was activated within minutes.
So, when network shortfall is reported, it covers a multitude of sins. Maybe it's to allow the system to report a successful connection, but not actually place any demands on it?
This would be a particularly egregious practice for nbn� to follow, given the previous never-ceasing Turnbull rampage against NBN Co for allegedly doing exactly the same thing.
Yeah well if it comes out that his doing the same thing, all he has to say is Labor did it first, we should be allowed a chance too. Bunch of hypocrites. You know they say 51-49 is close but if thats the case, we clearly see Shorten is unpopular compared to turnbull but with the way things are going i won't be surprised if Labor does somehow win this. Hopefully they can reveal everything the Coalition has done to the NBN and somehow fix it. But that would need a miracle
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster.
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
I was trying to keep away from this argument
That's certainly the impression given.
two possibilities: the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable and/or the NBNCo is running out of money.
There's a third one, which only arises due to the extreme personnel changes and other politicisation of nbn� which have recently occurred.
That would be that, as suspected, much of the CAN is shot and should be replaced to deliver anywhere near the QOS standards that were airily promised as an assured part of the MTM. So now the whole MTM miasma is being made to mark time until the election is safely out of the way.
But why isn't it faster?
More visits for the tech, replacing of degraded copper, people complaining when they don't get increased speeds.
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
And that data looks compelling.
But apparently we aren't supposed to know that. Perhaps it's an operational matter!
;-)
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
Yep, but is he counting premises reported as RFS but that can't order a service? It seems that's what the NBNCo is doing.
That's certainly the impression given.
It should be possible to discuss the issues with the FTTN part of the MTM without being sidetracked.
That would be that, as suspected, much of the CAN is shot and should be replaced to deliver anywhere near the QOS standards that were airily promised as an assured part of the MTM.
Is that different from "the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable"?
But they have met all their targets!
Here is my take on the grades of aiming at targets.
1. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, aim, release, and hit the center of the target.
2. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, aim, release, and hit the somewhere on the target.
3. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, don't aim, release, and miss the target.
4. Stand but do nothing.
5. Sit around and complain that it's hate speech to be expected to shoot the arrow.
Overall I'd say that MTMCo haven't done better that #3.
Perhaps it's an operational matter!
I think so because they certainly have been doing a job on us.
And that data looks compelling.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Imagine the clarity that could be provided on this project if this approach was taken by nbnTM.
Yep, but is he counting premises reported as RFS but that can't order a service? It seems that's what the NBNCo is doing.
The data provided at www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker (formerly mynbn.info) is derived from a number of unofficial sources (as I understand it).
It beggars belief that nbnTM would be headed down this path. If it comes to light that nbnTM is declaring SAMs RFS when significant numbers of premises can't order successfully order a service, heads should be on the line, all the way up to the Minister.
politics aside, there's no reason that Labor shouldn't win and then expose these criminals. After the way they treated Conroy (regardless of what you may think of him) I think Dreyfus will go directly after Fizzbull'ss litigious ass.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 pre-election targets.
FTFY :)
Be wary of the poster posers where they do a selective rollout of hardware and have sweet fa infrastructure in place, typical politician window dressing.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Not really: mature adults expect to be paid well for paced work output whilst the young are still enthusiastic enough to put in extra unpaid effort for their own interest. They are quickly dissuaded of this approach though by the establishment. It's a real tragedy, because the young show what society could be like when money is not the be-all-end-all driving force.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Interestingly I was at a seminar around a month ago where one of the speakers was from NBNCo. When people asked about the rollout, the speaker recommended that people look at MyNBN.info as it has better and more up to date information than the NBNCo roll out maps!
I think it may be an euphemism for saying your connection does not work.
Network shortfall is simply 'spin'....fro no service available....
The reason for spin is to hide failure to deliver and most likely hide the RFS stats are claimed without actually being built....
the trigger is ~90% of premises must be able to order (and have installed) a service before a SAM can be declared RFS
It would appear that NBN Co have determined that the infrastructure does not need to be completed to commence ordering with the RSP ...you just have to wait a long(er) time ie 'Network Shorfall status" is the interim period between concept design and actual service availablity....but NBN CO can claim the RFS stats for senior management and pollies to broadcast achievement of target forecasts.... /S (that's a big /S)
Just another example of how the Lib's NBN policy is possibly the worst commercial decision of all time...
From the Labor Thread � a user has a voice and ADSL fault in an FTTN area. Telstra check to the pillar, all good. Now NBN needs to investigate and fix the pillar to user fault.
Telstra are laughing all the way to the bank! Free maintenance!
But it also highlights � what happens to people who need a phoneline? The elderly, the medical priority? What do they do when FTTN comes around?
What do they do when FTTN comes around?
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less.
I think Dreyfus will go directly after Fizzbull'ss litigious ass.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a reaction at least to the news today that 80+% of Australians want an ICAC type body created at Federal level to deal with corruption at that level....
A promise from Labor to create that with NBN at the forefront would be a good start....
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less.
With FTTP there is a solution built into the network design (and Telstra hold a contract to transition phone only customers to FTTP, including going into homes and rewiring existing phone points to the UNI-V)... with FTTN it's in the too hard basket.
oops missed half the post I responded to
In the case of Telstra it is Murphy's law of the patch and to deny there is an issue with its infrastructure and implement the bare necessity to keep the copper functioning keeping the twisties network in place as long as possible...
Just another example of how the Lib's NBN policy is possibly the worst commercial decision of all time...
From the Labor Thread � a user has a voice and ADSL fault in an FTTN area. Telstra check to the pillar, all good. Now NBN needs to investigate and fix the pillar to user fault.
Telstra are laughing all the way to the bank! Free maintenance!
So if you had flaky ADSL2+ from the beginning. When your area is RFS. Never sign up to FTTN. Keep hassling telstra for line remediation until its fixed. Hopefully they raise it with MTMCo and it gets fixed.
Then reassess whether its worthwhile to cut over to FTTN. By then if your line was fixed you should probably see a slightly better ADSL2+ service to decide whether its worth it to switch.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a reaction at least to the news today that 80+% of Australians want an ICAC type body created at Federal level to deal with corruption at that level....
Both major political parties have stated at various times that they don't want a federal ICAC...might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
Not sure if this has been posted, but is a good reflection of the differences between the original NBN and the Coalitions MTM.
might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
So true and for LNP the NBN would be top of the list....we certainly wouldn't be getting the rubbish we get IMO
It may become a political tool however, they would get more disciplined, wouldn't they?
might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
Even more reason to do it.
If we are left with no politicians then so be it.
LNP masters of a con and fiction.
I watched Turnbull today stand in front of the banner material and keep referring to the Economic Plan time and time again.
With memories of the pre 2013 NBN Plan I thought I'd check what was in The Economic Plan with reference to NBN. I went on the LNP website and couldn't find an actual document called the Economic Plan but found an item that listed the items on it (with donate tabs on each issue. The above Fifield tweet is all that is there �
If this is the ECONOMIC PLAN for NBN then it cannot be called a plan. If the whole lot (perhaps six pages at best(?) is the overall Economic Plan then it is a nothing document IMO. If the public have a perception that it contains anything of substance they are sadly misguided. It is worse than Abbott's was and we know what that was worthwith regards to implementation......de ja vue???
If we are left with no politicians then so be it.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
Something like the original Overland Telegraph line I believe was basicaly built by the the Industry Experts at the time. So it can be done. I would think there would be more recent examples of decent infrastructure being built without any political footballing.
If you look at The Sydney Harbour Bridge, Copper Can, Snowy Mountain Scheme etc. the thing they have in common is that the Liberals all thought they weren't needed.
Just like the nbn � history will show how wrong they were.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
I can, it was the original NBN, or was there a /s that i missed? forgive me but im sick :/
Im hoping that this swing towards indis will put FTTP back on the table, if Labor cant get up.
I thought I'd check what was in The Economic Plan with reference to NBN.
the plan??? did it go something like this? jobs and growth, jobs and growth, jobs and growth, LABOR BAAADDDD NBN BBAAAAADDDD jobs and growth... blah
I loved the way the caretaker PM use Engineers Australia to sell his pseudo-innovation plan by trying to piggy-back of the Engineers Australia branding, all the while doing everything he can to ensure that Australia remains an online connected backwater!
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
"Support us or no funding for you".....
Im hoping that this swing towards indis will put FTTP back on the table, if Labor cant get up.
That will only work if it gets the ALP to complete the NBN as originally designed, or for the LNP to abandon its stance and embrace the original NBN plan.
The hard truth is that a handful of independents is not going to change anything. They might hold some sway for a period of time and be an annoyance but ultimately they will not change the way political parties run government.
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
Not, only was it disappointing from that point of view but a lack of mention to anything like NBN infrastructure etc being part of 'exciting' future, the verbal garbage and over statement re girls girls girls was embarrassing. I could imaging most young girls/women hearing his spin would have, as presumably intelligent people, walked away saying 'what a dork..." (or the equivalent these days ). Where was the substance?...just fluff, EA would be disappointed no doubt.
NBN is a critical part to their future domestically and internationally. Already a large part of engineering for big Miners and Oil and Gas is done overseas, at least some capability to communicate with Australia would be appreciated. The stuff that moves head offices overseas....brain drain overseas is not what these girls/young women want to hear.
That will only work if it gets the ALP to complete the NBN as originally designed, or for the LNP to abandon its stance and embrace the original NBN plan.
Unfortunately it's too late for that, unless they plan to rip out all the nodes & associated equipment that have/being installed in the FTTN areas.
Like the Irish Government are about to legislate, when is the Australian Federal Coalition going to change their NBN/MTM policy, NBN Strategy, and SOE to NBNCo, to provide a legally enforceable right for home and business owners to be provided with minimum speeds of at least 25Mbps (including during peak hours) from their RSP's?
At the moment their is no right or even guarantees of minimum speeds that Australian homes and business must be able to get for their broadband 24*7.
https://www.siliconrepublic.
unlike the UK, which has stopped at 10Mbps as a minimum standard, the USO will need to serve home and business owners in Ireland for the next 30 or 40 years and that 30Mbps is the baseline.
�We want to ensure people have access to broadband as a right,� Naughten said. �I want it as an enforceable right.�
Where was the substance?...just fluff, EA would be disappointed no doubt.
Exactly. It was certainly cringeworthy.
The disappointing thing is that EA is a Non-Profit Organisation and gets $0 funding from any government. They did not need it, but have allowed themselves to be used.
Unfortunately it's too late for that, unless they plan to rip out all the nodes & associated equipment that have/being installed in the FTTN areas.
Well, if Australia wants to be taken seriously, it will have to.
The politicians talk about leaving future generations to pay the debt. Well what about leaving them that debt anyway and then the requirement that THEY will have to correct things????
They (indies) might hold some sway for a period of time and be an annoyance but ultimately they will not change the way political parties run government.
Well if Windsor gets in he is pro NBN clearly as are any Greens and Wilkie I believe is pissed off at what happened to Tasmania's promise for FTTP, so there are 4 votes to add to ALP. There could well be a couple of Xenophon's succeed as well s there could be 6 indies favouring NBN. Add Katter to the mix who probably wouldn't support NBN... Possible 7 indies.
LNP need 76 seats to govern in own right and (ref ABC Calculator ) 50.1% Lib vote is minimum LNP need to retain power with all predicted 4 indies supporting them. 50.6% Lab vote give them govt in their own right and 50.2% Lab has indies involved. That's with only 4 indies predicted by ABC. By current polls even a 50/50 vote may save NBN. There are variables that can throw that out like the $1.6B LNP have already thrown as pork barrel to marginal seats during election campaign mostly in South Aust/Qld.
On those figures though the senate looks like it could be worse for LNP and how that affects NBN depends, but HoR is real key for NBN. Interestingly, the joint sitting due to Double Dissolution may backfire with likely minority in overall total to LNP. I'd bet it won't happen at all......egg on face...unless LNP have majority.
If you look at The Sydney Harbour Bridge, Copper Can, Snowy Mountain Scheme etc. the thing they have in common is that the Liberals all thought they weren't needed.
Just like the nbn � history will show how wrong they were.
I have never voted for the LNP and will never vote them in my lifetime. Leopard never changes their spot, they are anti-everything, attack labor, attack NBN, attack students, attack pensioners and attack the poor. One thing they support Businesses and Big businesses (aka, their rich mates).
But when you ask them to come up with something and execute. They make things worse, setting us backwards as a nation. The MTM is one of the biggest examples. Its time for the nation to get educated and actually vote them out for good. Their values do not align with fair go Australia, everyone deserves a fair go.
Their plan and repeating. "Jabs" and "Glooat". Yep, give labor a few uppercut jabs, and gloat how well they are managing the economy. Except everything points to the contrary.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
This seems like a simpsons episode if i recall correctly... They had issues with their opinions but eh would be enjoyable to see
the plan??? did it go something like this? jobs and growth, jobs and growth, jobs and growth, LABOR BAAADDDD NBN BBAAAAADDDD jobs and growth... blah
Funny how Labors NBN could provide jobs
Funny how Labors NBN could provide jobs
They aren't jobs powered by coal though � everyone knows that green tech/the internet aren't real!
A real NBN could provide so many innovative jobs � but the LNP don't want to invest in something that displeases Rupert.
I was over in the Central Coast thread with a bit of a discussion happening about nodes being declared RFS yet no one can seem to connect due to the mystery "network shortfall"
will just pick on area and list the nodes in it with connection stats courtesy of Finder
you can do your own analysis starting here http://www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker/sa/2WOY
ADA ID Technology Premises # Serviceable^ Connected^
2WOY-13-01 copper 291 291 (High) 20 (Low)
2WOY-13-02 copper 195 194 (High) 20 (Low)
2WOY-13-03 copper 202 202 (High) 13 (Low)
2WOY-13-04 copper 179 179 (High) 23 (Low)
2WOY-13-05 copper 106 106 (High) 6 (Low)
2WOY-13-06 copper 316 315 (High) 25 (Low)
2WOY-13-07 copper 139 139 (High) 10 (Low)
2WOY-13-08 copper 117 117 (High) 0 (None)
2WOY-13-09 copper 40 40 (High) 2 (None)
2WOY-13-10 copper 101 101 (High) 3 (None)
2WOY-13-11 copper 81 81 (High) 10 (Low)
2WOY-13-13 copper 68 68 (High) 0 (None)
not sure of the dates of the data, but the numbers look outstanding not sure if I need to add this /s
I was over in the Central Coast thread with a bit of a discussion happening about nodes being declared RFS yet no one can seem to connect due to the mystery "network shortfall"
After looking through a significant number of SAMs in the recent activations list I am pretty sure the data jxeeno is using is lagging reality.
Every SAM I checked on the recent activation list with a RFS date later than April 1 2016 returned a SC0 / SC10 value of 100%. Perhaps this data is only updated quarterly in the sources he is using?
Now this doesn't address the 'network shortfall' issue, which may be related to another issue I have discovered. I simply had not read any of the Service Class designations other than the ones I was directly interested in.
Service Class 11- the location is serviceable by copper, copper lead-in required
EDIT: I forgot to add the redundant WTF???
From your 2WOY serving area you can see the following.
Service Class 11 = 8,681 (28%)
This information does not come from an official nbnTM website, however, it is my understanding that the underlying data is from nbnTM indirectly via 'unknown sources'.
however, it is my understanding that the underlying data is from nbnTM indirectly via 'unknown sources.'
AFP RAID !!!
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less
No, there is no such problem with FTTP switch-over. When I got FTTP, the fibre was physically connected for about three weeks before NBN and the ISP got it actually working. In the mean time I still had a working ADSL and phone. It was only when the FTTP connection was operational (green light on) that I switched my router over. No disruption of any services!
Duplicate � Sorry.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need...
That would have been the NBN, as planned and commenced by NBN Co.
'An nbn', aka MTM, sounds more like a Turnbull perversion, as proposed to be delivered by his nbn�.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
Wait, I remember this one time, prior to 2013, when they did exactly that...Or wake me up 'cause I'm dreaming.
But it also highlights � what happens to people who need a phoneline? The elderly, the medical priority? What do they do when FTTN comes around?
According to nbn, they should get a Telstra mobile. If they have a Medtronic Carelink style product, they should exchange it for the 3G version (only an additional $50/month to your health provider)
If you have a fall alert device, then that is another 3G service also.
nbn have stated that voip over FTTN is unreliable.
nbn have stated that voip over FTTN is unreliable.
Ah hmm jeez where have i heard that VOIP IS reliable... hmm i think the first word began with a F and the last word started with a H. Ah yes Fibre to the Home.
So many services we will be missing out on :(
According to nbn, they should get a Telstra mobile.
ooops is this another "kick back" for the free copper?
Interesting the Q+A in Tamworth on rural issues is repeating returning to the NBN.
And Windsor (yay!) stood up and said "Do it once, do it right, do it with fibre".
Plenty of NBN discussion on Q & A tonight. Barnaby Joyce and Tony Windsor with others. Subject has come up a number of times and Barnbay is the lone voice in the room. He rattled out the $30billion more, 8 years more, 25/5 is enough, noone has ordered more than 100/40, etc almost all in one sentence.
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
edit:
no comments for ages then three in a minute :)
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
It shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions. Windsor is right to say do it once etc... It's the only way it can be done properly in these areas. If they get FTTN, they won't get FTTP for decades, if at all. FTTP had the potential to fill in a lot of holes in services in terminal Australia. Windsor needs to keep pushing.
Subject has come up a number of times and Barnbay is the lone voice in the room. He rattled out the $30billion more, 8 years more, 25/5 is enough, noone has ordered more than 100/40, etc almost all in one sentence.
The audience is certainly asking all the right questions this time. I really do wish that someone would raise Barnabys previous support for FTTP and his claim labor stole his policy.
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
Where can i watch this piece of footage, would love to see it.
Where can i watch this piece of footage, would love to see it.
hopefully it should be up on iView tomorrow
edit:- and here is the link http://iview.abc.net.au/progr
It shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions.
It always has been important. I was going to say Tony Windsor is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool but I think it would be more accurate to say Barnaby Joyce is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool.
Windsor is right to say do it once etc... It's the only way it can be done properly in these areas.
Possibly. I don't like ruling out the use of FTTB/dp in MDUs to speed up the roll out. Then come back and do FTTP in those MDUs later. I think that stands in all areas.
If they get FTTN, they won't get FTTP for decades, if at all.
FTTN is not an interim solution on the way to FTTP. The only place I think it might have is in regional towns that are not getting FTTP where exchange-based VDSL might be a good solution to take the load off wireless.
It always has been important. I was going to say Tony Windsor is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool but I think it would be more accurate to say Barnaby Joyce is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool.
Everyone made Barnaby look like an idiot. He even got the tomato happening at some stages he was so flustered. I just wish someone would have nailed him about his previous advocacy of FTTP. There would be no comeback from that, and the room would have given him a serve.
Possibly. I don't like ruling out the use of FTTB/dp in MDUs to speed up the roll out. Then come back and do FTTP in those MDUs later. I think that stands in all areas. MDUs are largely irrelevant in the regions. The majority of premises are single dwellings. Windsor gets a lot of support for his stance for good reason.
FTTN is not an interim solution on the way to FTTP.
It needs to be done once, and done right.
obviously Joyce has a selective memory and has seldom bothered to research his original policy trying to change tact in fttp support
obviously Joyce has a selective memory
Well he can't say FTTP has any merit as that would put a huge kink in the LNP campaign. His only hope of staying deputy PM is to toe the party line. Just goes to show how many scruples most politicians have.
toeing the party line means the commitment of political suicide and more than likely face a gaol cell if not the firing squad for treason against the country...
sad to say i suspect Malcolm will be leaving the country to remove himself from facing any commission regarding his time former opspokesman on comms, to eventually comms minister now within the seat of prime minister which he was not elected for and passing the same fate labor did previous election cycle they should went to the polls when the fool took office..
i doubt joyce has even looked at the commissioned papers regarding the current state of australias communication network, never mind sully his own fingers of malcs farce without himself liable supporting this political pissing contest of factually fraudulent facts...
It was a great episode � lots if questions about the nbn,
It shows it is an election issue.
What you wont read in the unaustralian.
Q&A: Barnaby Joyce and Tony Windsor trade blows on mining and national broadband network
A woman from a farm 20km from Tamworth asked why she had telecommunications �equivalent of a third world� with no TV reception, mobile and no fixed line.
The loudest cheers came for Windsor�s slogan on the National Broadband Network, �do it once, do it right, do it with fibre�.
t was a great episode � lots if questions about the nbn,
Darn, I didn't know it was on and even if it was I didn't really know "NBN" was going to be mentioned in Q&A for once.
Anyway I haven't got time now to watch the Q&A Video right now but it looks like the latest one was uploaded to Iview 9 hours ago. Check it out if you missed it like i did.
http://iview.abc.net.au/prog
Have a read of the comments too. When I last looked probably half the comments were about the NBN. None of them were favourable to Joyce's stance.
Have a read of the comments too. When I last looked probably half the comments were about the NBN
More than half.. A big issue in new England.
Comments said : bye bye Barnaby..
no such problem with FTTP switch-over
Understood, The switch over is fine, but what about after? I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP.
The loudest cheers came for Windsor�s slogan on the National Broadband Network, �do it once, do it right, do it with fibre�.
I was a little annoyed that Jones cut the responses short on this.
Nevertheless, I got a sense there is an elephant in the room and it is about to get upset.
just had my voice phone line fixed after reporting a fault
- Yesterday Telstra checked exchange to the pillar, then as it was ok tho there they put a job into nbn� to fix the pillar to network boundary point
- worker wearing a nbn� vest turns up and starts checking the fault after having done some prep work at the pilllar by replacing the jumpers, removing a "battery" and some other tidying up.
- worker is actually employed by Telstra
- I am informed if the fault is in my aerial lead in he cannot replace it as neither nbn� workers or Telstra workers now have access to poles to work on aerial junctions or anchor points due to the transfer of ownership of the assets (this could be due to the privatisation of the poles and wires in NSW) and NO agreement between nbn� and AUSGRID for climbing poles all that work has to be scheduled and done from a bucket truck at a later date
- luckily my fault is between the point of attachment onto the house and the first socket
oh what a wonderful scheme Dear Leader Malcolm Turnbull has given us, especially for those of us with FTTN in an AUSGRID area and maybe other areas as well
the man is so egotistical that he even has his initials on the nbn� branding, of course either in keeping with his plan the initials are backwards or are like you do a school roll, surname first
just had my voice phone line fixed after reporting a fault
Faster and cheaper � YEAH RIGHT!
What a shambles!
If we were getting FTTP it wouldn't matter � we could roll it out and there would't be any issues with lead-ins etc.
staying deputy PM is to toe the party line
Not quite � that position goes to the leader of the Nationals in a Liberal/silage coalition, so it's not the Liberal line he needs to follow. What the voters in Tamworth need to ask themselves is where *were* the National party when Barnardy's preferred option was being lied about then dismantled by Clownshoes and Lord Verdigris...:-(
Understood, The switch over is fine, but what about after? I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP.
It was a storm in a tea cup.
I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP
In my case battery backup is provided with the NTD. I think this became optional for later fttp installations. Like most people I use VOIP and not the UNI-V port for my phone connection. For emergency calls during long power failures I would use my mobile. This has not been necessary in my three years of FTTP (no power failures and no network failures). I would think that medical monitoring could be switched to mobile when necessary, but am not sure. For me and the vast majority of fttp users � no curfuffel whatsoever!
Not NBN directly but this sums up the "your home doesn't need those speeds" argument -
EEF members' main concerns for broadband are that it's cost effective, reliable, and resilient, as well as future proof. Speed doesn't factor into it nearly as much.
Full report �
more than likely face a gaol cell if not the firing squad for treason against the country...
Ridiculous hyperbole like that really detracts from your points
Stats are in on most important things for voters.
It was a storm in a tea cup.
Indeed, but there was a lot of noise about it.
no curfuffel whatsoever!
It was at the time. I'd prefer not to have a home phone at all.
Their plan and repeating. "Jabs" and "Glooat". Y
Just use "Slobs and sloth." inste�d of "Jobs and growth.
Indeed, but there was a lot of noise about it.
So alot of noise about a solved probelm. However: there is no noise about the Telstra HFC not having any battery backup at all � and no plans to install it. And this will be a significant part of the population. What happens to medical priority in these areas?
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
�It�s a shame we weren�t able to show Senator Fifield some of the success stories unfolding here for those businesses that have already been connect to the NBN,� he said.
Fong continued to say that those parts of Ballarat that have been provided with the high-speed fibre-based FTTP version have already benefitted greatly from the NBN rollout.
�Businesses there are now able to undertake tasks never before possible,� Fong said. �The parts of our city that have FTTP provide a benchmark for operational delivery of high speed NBN services across regional Australia.�
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
Chair of the group, George Fong, said he was �bemused� that the Minister did not make the time to catch up with local stakeholders, despite being in his hometown of Ballarat at the time, and following multiple requests for a meeting.
�This would have been the ideal opportunity for the minister to speak first hand to people who need fast broadband and have the evidence to prove it, and to hear their stories not the filtered reports ministers traditionally receive�, Fong said.
Ahhh but Fifield would have had to listen to the inconvenient truth if he'd attended, wouldn't he.
Ahhh but Fifield would have had to listen to the inconvenient truth if he'd attended, wouldn't he.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
They keep banging on about cost and time overruns and yet their own network has these.
People don't care about this � all they want is working internet fast enough to last well into the future.
FTTN cannot give us this.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
It certainly is. There are lots of angry internet users out there who have woken up to Turnbull and is fraudband con.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
Just finished watching Q&A from last night.
The LNP seem to be ignoring the groundswell of support for a proper FTTP nbn.
Let's hope people back it up, when it's time to vote!
So alot of noise about a solved probelm
Yes, a lot of noise 5+ years ago, sheesh where were you guys then?
Just saw MT announce the next debate will be streamed on news.com.au and Facebook.
Somehow, this could backfire with the pathetic NBN Internet speeds being experienced!
Yes, a lot of noise 5+ years ago, sheesh where were you guys then?
I was here.. However, it was always planned to have battery backup available � which made the arguments seem nonsensical.
Now � for most, its not even going to be an option.. Wait until my die hard liberal voting family find out that they are going to have to forkout moolah to come up with a solution for my Grandmothers Call Alert system. Its battery backed up, but the network its going to be connected to wont be.
Just finished watching Q&A from last night.
The LNP seem to be ignoring the groundswell of support for a proper FTTP nbn.
Let's hope people back it up, when it's time to vote!
It really is beginning to seem the libs are too proud to admit they made a mistake with fttn and will hold to the script, even at the expense of the election.
edit:
no comments for ages then three in a minute :)
I'd bet those NBN leakages might draw a comment from Joyce to Jones as he walked out which might have taken the form of ....how's your ABC budget looking Tony.....? Could get a lot worse you know...I'm in a positon of influence, got mates in high places you know (as he reminded everyone a few times) ...
t shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions.
And the LNP are clearly not listening, certainly not about NBN, from Joyce's answers.
And the LNP are clearly not listening, certainly not about NBN, from Joyce's answers.
Joyce has a problem with his perceptions � Turnbull.
Turnbull has a problem with his perceptions � the liberal parties' right wing members.
Labor and LIberal/National parties have a problem � the two party preferred system.
Tony Windor's closing comment said it all. "From 1901, for the first 20 years of the federal government, we had no parties and everything worked fine". (So did the Gillard hung Parliament � more legislation passed than any other.)
Get behind the independents � but not so far behind as to render them useless.
�Businesses there are now able to undertake tasks never before possible,� Fong said. �The parts of our city that have FTTP provide a benchmark for operational delivery of high speed NBN services across regional Australia.
�It�s a shame we weren�t able to show Senator Fifield some of the success stories unfolding here for those businesses that have already been connect to the NBN,�
If Fifield doesn't see or hear it then it doesn't exist...right?
Chair of the group, George Fong, said he was �bemused� that the Minister did not make the time to catch up with local stakeholders, despite being in his hometown of Ballarat at the time, and following multiple requests for a meeting.
This confirms the 'small target' strategy of the LNP across the board. Residents of Ballarat and surrounds should be reading in their local papers and seeing on TV media that Fifield squibbed the opportunity to tell them why FTTN/MTM is so good for them and not FTTP...
Getting the FTTP message to electors is the major problem...
On the matter about having a fixed line phone with FTTP instead of using mobile, I want to speak of my own experience.
Yes, I could use mobile, but I don't like using it. I find the service patchy and often is hard to hear. I have had several mobile phones and haven't found one I like using. I have it up as loud as it goes on speaker and it's not good enough.
There is also an issue of calling some company or government service and being placed on call waiting for 30-60 minutes. It's a pain to have to hold the mobile close enough to hear when I finally get someone to talk to. Whereas using the fixed line I can use the speaker phone, which is loud enough to be heard and I don't have to hold it to my ear. Also, I can get the fixed line call rate much cheaper than using the mobile in this way, which charges continuously.
This may seem like silly piffle to others but it matters to me, and it's why I always option a VOIP service when I move into a rental with FTTP. The main pest is finding the owner has had the NTD placed in the garage where it's useless and I get the expense of having cabling run into the house.
Just saw MT announce the next debate will be streamed on news.com.au and Facebook.
Somehow, this could backfire with the pathetic NBN Internet speeds being experienced!
Lame excuse for not going on Q&A etc, wants to present an 'innovative' debate....
Now, if everyone goes online at the same time and everyone gets bbbbuuuuuffff ......eeeeerrrreeeeedddd that could be pretty embarrassing eh?
No doubt a moderator will vet online questions and those asking... 'why can't I follow the debate because of buffering'... won't get through....
Tony Windor's closing comment said it all. "From 1901, for the first 20 years of the federal government, we had no parties and everything worked fine".
It does appear to me that the party system is a significant problem. I see the same thing existing from what I know about the US and UK as well. When the parties establish dominance it means MPs are less responsive to the electorate and power is controlled by a few hidden controllers of party policy.
We are further handicapped in Australia by the two party preferred system, in that even if you put an independent or small party as #1, if that one doesn't get enough votes your vote will go to whichever big party is next in line on your ballot. As a result Liberal or Labor still get the vote, even if you don't want them to.
If Fifield doesn't see or hear it then it doesn't exist...right?
see no fibre
speak no fibre
say no fibre
the 3 Liberal monkeys
sadly backpaw i have read past the political spiel of the last 20 odd years, to the point i already know anyone riding on the curt tails of turnbull will not see office if by some miracle the lnp retain offfice if or when the federal royal commission is held i suspect a lot of lnp party faithful will face the docks..
6CAN customers are getting lucky... thanks to failure it seems.
There's quite a few getting free upgrades...must be election time !! Must keep customers happy at all cost.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
It does appear to me that the party system is a significant problem.
Should ban party politics. It doesn't work. To much power play, corruption and abuse .
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
We are further handicapped in Australia by the two party preferred system, in that even if you put an independent or small party as #1, if that one doesn't get enough votes your vote will go to whichever big party is next in line on your ballot. As a result Liberal or Labor still get the vote, even if you don't want them to.
This is why you have to work out who will be the last two in the battle for the seat and make sure you put the one you do not want to get in LAST. Don't worry about how to vote cards.
There is nothing more sobering for a politician that to lose his/her seat.
The NBN is such a way of getting the candidates to start listening.
to the point i already know anyone riding on the curt tails of turnbull will not see office if by some miracle the lnp retain offfice if or when the federal royal commission is held i suspect a lot of lnp party faithful will face the docks..
I sincerely hope this is true.
http://www.buddeblog.com.au/
We are spending close to $60 billion dollars on our national digital economy infrastructure and we need to do it wisely and effectively.
This has nothing to do with doing things cheaper and faster; as a matter of fact I would argue for slowing it down, to make sure we do it right.
The fact that the real questions regarding the validity of the MtM cannot be questioned also became clear in a recent report that Analysys Mason wrote for the ACCC. It came to the conclusion that the MtM approach is doable and deliverable within the context of the cheaper and faster policy of the government. But the research company had been explicitly forbidden to take other technologies into account. It is like investigating the road system between Sydney and Melbourne but not taking the freeways into account.
When you look at the extent of what Analysys Mason recently recommended to the Irish Government with their NBP, you'll get an idea of some of what is clearly missing from the current NBN/MTM plans.
Suggest everyone go read the whole Paul Budde article.
yup they talk a good ploy of misinformation...
http://www.buddeblog.com.au/
AS usual more pertinent and wise comments on NBN. Recommend reading the whole article....
The issue has been so incredibly politicised that it is almost impossible to cut through all the noise.
This has nothing to do with doing things cheaper and faster;
After all those years neither the government nor the NBN company have come up with a plan for what we need the NBN for; and what it means for the economy of our country.
All Minister Christopher Pyne had to say on the NBN was that it allows us to download five movies at the same time. How absurd is that? It is not a comment that you would expect from an informed senior political leader. Is that what his vision is for the country, for the NBN � the ability to download Netflix movies? I find that insulting.
NBN is a monopoly service, ..... why is there a need to hide information? Why is there such an issue around leaked documents? There can�t be much commercial-in-confidence information in what is a monopoly business?
There is no way the monopoly company can argue that the leaks are undermining them commercially.
The MtM policy severely undermines other long-term government policies such as innovation and smart cities. All those involved in innovation and smart cities are saying quite clearly that in order to get the proper benefits from these policies a full fibre network is required.
If the rest of the world can find bi-partisan solutions for its digital infrastructure why can�t we do the same?
But the research company had been explicitly forbidden to take other technologies into account
Yeah, that was a crock.. Another skewered partisan review..
Just getting back to the bit where the Comms minister Mitchel Fairfield skipped attending that meeting I can assure you (Because I know what the Libs are like) that they would be calling out Labor for doing the same thing too if they ever skipped such a meeting. But because the Libs are in the High chair at the moment, everyone else is too scared to speak up because the Libs will likely make more lies and made believe crap up.
It just sickens me as a Citizen of this Country that we have a Person in the Communications chair that is ignorant and doesn't care for our future. Any other country right now as I type is at least trying to listen to their citizens and trying to make ends meet. But us??? Ohhh no, we instead have an ignorant person who's not interested in our needs or wants and wants to make sure we are as far back as we are for the future, good game Mr Fairfield.
Also their so called innovation thing that the current Government is trying to push won't work well without a Modern National broadband Network.
But because the Libs are in the High chair at the moment, everyone else is too scared to speak up because the Libs will likely make more lies and made believe crap up.
If you want any proof on who controls the media just look at how much coverage the AFP raids are getting....
Yup that's right. Zilch, nada, nothing... outside of specialist outlets like ZDNet, Delimiter and ABC news everyone else has pretty much moved on and forgotten about it. Now can you imagine if the reverse happened and it happened to the Libs? We would not be hearing the end of it for weeks on end until the election.
Just saw the 4 minutes on the guardian about Q&A, the most cheers came when Tony said politics got involved and he is 100% right there
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
Oh he has some nerve... That won't look good on him and Turnbull, just shows how much they have to hide!
Not NBN directly but this sums up the "your home doesn't need those speeds" argument -
EEF members' main concerns for broadband are that it's cost effective, reliable, and resilient, as well as future proof. Speed doesn't factor into it nearly as much.
Pardon my french but thats absolutely bullshit. Its about all of the above there, if they say speed isnt a factor then they shouldn't be there.
Its about all of the above there, if they say speed isnt a factor then they shouldn't be there.
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
I would and still argue today that 25mbps isn't enough but i do see the point, however speed is STILL an important factor and they are making it sound like it isn't. I especially want more upload speeds which we are not getting with this politicised crap
Wait until my die hard liberal voting family find out that they are going to have to forkout moolah to come up with a solution for my Grandmothers Call Alert system.
Well if they are really true blue die hard liberals then they'll come up with a plan to shift those costs to someone else. Have you got your credit card ready? ;)
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
There are dropouts and dropouts. In a previous residence of mine I had an ADSL line that dropped out many more than 5 times a day (as it turned out due to rodent activity on wiring internal to the apartment, but that's a different story.) but because my PPOE session stayed up and waited for the modem to retrain, it really only affected voip calls.
The other saving grace is that if your DSL line drops out once a day because of poor line quality, chances are it will be dropping out dozens of times a day and will get flagged for maintenance under NBN rules. The number "5" is chosen not because anyone is saying 5 dropouts a day are acceptable, but because they don't want to be flagging a line for maintenance because someone rebooted their modem a couple of times.
yup they talk a good ploy of misinformation...
Well, it's 'good' only from the coalition point of view.
First they told serial lies about the NBN, so (exactly as intended) all the non-tech, non-committed people got the impression it must be an expensive disaster.
Then they moved to stage two of their campaign and rolled out the even bigger porky that they could deliver their MTM to provide Faster! Cheaper! Quicker! access for everybody.
And now? It looks that the MTM we are getting will be at least as expensive over time as the NBN � but will be grossly inferior from day one, a deficiency which will become greater with every passing decade.
i still wondering why malcs got the comms portfolio in the1st place given the majors of conflicts of interest of industry he has.. though the case of irony it would benefithis business in other areas with reliable infrastructure..
Talk about NBN continues...on the ABC Drum today. Towards end of programme.
A fair bit of ignorance as to what NBN is but.... it is in the arena...increasingly.
Even the known right of centre Creighton, The Australian, concedes to get on with it .."and it might help innovation" (?) ....
Sensible stuff early from Peter Martin Economist, the Age, and Nicki Hutley Economist Urbis.
In a previous residence of mine I had an ADSL line that dropped out many more than 5 times a day (as it turned out due to rodent activity on wiring internal to the apartment, but that's a different story.) but because my PPOE session stayed up and waited for the modem to retrain, it really only affected voip calls.
I assume you have that the wrong way around � you can have a PPP dropout while retaining line sync, but you cannot have an ADSL dropout while maintaining a PPP connection.
The number "5" is chosen not because anyone is saying 5 dropouts a day are acceptable, but because they don't want to be flagging a line for maintenance because someone rebooted their modem a couple of times.
There is no active monitoring that would necessitate such a threshold � the cause of dropouts is only (theoretically) investigated by nbn� if a fault is lodged by the RSP after going through rigorous standard troubleshooting with the customer (triggered by the customer contacting the RSP).
Moved from the NBN HFC thread....
Once full structural separation has been achieved, the first item on the agenda will to replace all the bits that Telstra still owns.
You mean replace the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges?
What about the long term lease payments NBNCo has to pay Telstra for the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges under the Telstra NBN Co agreement?
Likewise, from the HFC thread:
So at the moment ARPU difference between the technologies is negligible.
That is not true at all � not only are there an order of magnitude more customers on FTTP than FTTN overall, there are double the percentage of 100/40 customers on FTTP than there are up-to-100/40 on FTTN... combine those two factors together and ARPU has to be significantly higher on FTTP.
I fully expect FTTN users will start to get dissatisfied with their speed at some stage.
When they do, they won't be able to get a higher speed so they won't be stupid enough to pay more.
They will reduce it, but hit you with something like a $300 contract break fee if Telstra is anything to go by.
I find that incredibly hard to believe.
That is not true at all � not only are there an order of magnitude more customers on FTTP than FTTN overall
Some FTTP areas have had up to 93% takeup. That is impressive.
I assume you have that the wrong way around � you can have a PPP dropout while retaining line sync, but you cannot have an ADSL dropout while maintaining a PPP connection.
In fact you can, but perhaps only if you have a separate modem and router like I did. The Ethernet line was not dropped by the modem while it was resyncing, and consequently the router just kept sending packets. Once the line resynced, the PPP session carried on as before. I assume it would get dropped if the resync took too long, because the server (BRAS) is supposed to send out LCP echo request packets periodically to check the status of the PPPoE session.
On the other hand if I unplugged the Enet cable between the router and the modem, the link went down instantly, my sessions all got ICMP Host unreachable packets and all my SSH (or other TCP) sessions would drop.
There is no active monitoring that would necessitate such a threshold � the cause of dropouts is only (theoretically) investigated by nbn� if a fault is lodged by the RSP after going through rigorous standard troubleshooting with the customer (triggered by the customer contacting the RSP).
Yeah. but the stats are kept in the DSLAM. Those counters would be monitored somewhere. But you may be right that they don't make anything happen until someone phones up and complains. Then someone will look at the counter and put it on maint if the counter for the last 24 hours is > 5 or say it's fine if it is <5.
You mean replace the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges?
What about the long term lease payments NBNCo has to pay Telstra for the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges under the Telstra NBN Co agreement?
I guess it depends how good those pits, pipes and conduits are. I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
http://www.sunshinecoastdail
THERE seems to be an assumption in the structuring and marketing of the National Broadband Network that the average punter is too dumb to comprehend the differences in speed offered through the network's various models and incarnations.
That assumption is exemplified by the marketing campaigns of the various telcos hocking NBN, where download limits are shouted in big pastel coloured numbers while finding the actual speeds takes so much clicking around you can only assume the telco would prefer not to talk about it.
Given all that, along with the high cost of plans with the highest speeds, it's really not at all surprising NewsCorp's The Australian was able to shout a few months ago that fewer than 25% of new NBN customers were opting for the fastest plan.
It feels as though we're all being taken for fools.
Which reminds me of something very truthful that the head of Telstra's NZ equivalent was recorded as saying 10 years ago. Something that we see clear evidence of happening still today in Australia from both NBN Co and some major ISP's/RSP's with broadband speeds and different broadband technologies.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bu
Gattung admits Telcos not being straight
Telecom's public image may take another hit as an audio clip of Theresa Gattung circulating on the internet has the chief executive admitting to the company "not being straight up" with customers.
"Think about pricing. What has every telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine," said Gattung in a speech recorded on March 20.
"You could argue that that's how all of us keep calling prices up and get those revenues, high-margin businesses, keep them going for a lot longer than would have been the case.
"But at some level, whether they consciously articulate or not, customers know that's what the game has been. They know we're not being straight up."
Gattung made the comments as part of a speech given to analysts in Sydney about the company's plans for the future.
"What she was talking about is the new paradigm that we're moving to ... which is all about having a much more transparent, open and easier-to-understand set of products so that customers have a lot more control."
I guess it depends how good those pits, pipes and conduits are. I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
Actually, I guess it firstly depends on whether the economics and ROI stacks up for NBN Co in building their own pits, pipes and conduits. I daresay it does not. And with either a lock of poles where power has gone underground, or poles that are not longer in the possession or control of State Governments, I think you may be 100% wrong on that.
With the existing liabilities for lease payments to utilise Telstra's CAN network assets of pits, pipes, conduits and exchanges (that lasts for how many years?) the economic return nail in the coffin, without a substantial hike in wholesale and retail NBN prices. With the added threat of either the poles and wires owners (current or new owners or strategic partners) or Telstra competing with their own FTTP/5G/Hybrid wireless/fixed line networks.
Some FTTP areas have had up to 93% takeup. That is impressive
To be fair that may be because the 18mth rule is invoked and full cutover has to take place. Must say it belies the LNP arguments that take up is bad which it isn't anyway � well exceeds original forecasts. slagging for the sake of slagging....
I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
I would have thought OF cable has advanced a fair bit and would be smaller now anyway and certainly OF smaller than coax so where's the problem...?
To be fair that may be because the 18mth rule is invoked and full cutover has to take place. Must say it belies the LNP arguments that take up is bad which it isn't anyway � well exceeds original forecasts. slagging for the sake of slagging....
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 41 | 97,679 | 16,445 | 16.8%
FTTN | 60 | 127,040 | 12,123 | 9.5%
FTTB | 71 | 17,441 | 567 | 3.3%
Edit: Will add all the SAM's that went RFS after 25/09/15 (when 1st FTTN site went SAM) up to end March (Made a mistake, correcting)$ Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 303 | 578,608 | 231,611 | 40.0%
FTTN | 96 | 204,240 | 33,798 | 16.5%
FTTB | 118 | 29,007 | 1,359 | 4.7%
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 135 | 270,586 | 79,610 | 29.4%
FTTN | 95 | 203,302 | 33,678 | 16.6%
FTTB | 117 | 28,370 | 1,249 | 4.4%
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 41 | 97,679 | 16,445 | 16.8%
FTTN | 60 | 127,040 | 12,123 | 9.5%
FTTB | 71 | 17,441 | 567 | 3.3%
Makes a mockery of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's claims on Q&A last night......
I would have thought OF cable has advanced a fair bit and would be smaller now anyway and certainly OF smaller than coax so where's the problem...?
Bending radius. I personally have been bitten by this one. Pipe plenty big enough for the next bigger cable size, but bending radii too small for the bigger cable. The design rules for new estates are very particular about bending radii and certainly don't allow plenty of things that copper cables just wouldn't care about.
Makes a mockery of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's claims on Q&A last night......
All helpfully mapped out here since the 1st SAM went RFS
- https://nbnmtm.cartodb.com/vi
Edit: Will add all the SAM's that went RFS after 25/09/15 (when 1st FTTN site went SAM) up to end March
Wow, this is what Frank was talking about, even if FTTN is quicker to build it is not an advantage if the takeup lags too far behind FTTP.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
Bending radius. I personally have been bitten by this one.
have a look at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUBRjiVhJTs
HFC has the same problems of bend radius as most optical fibres, just that a 10 times of a 10mm diameter HFC cable is much bigger than 10 times a 3 mm diameter SMOF fibre NBN Co was using for lead ins
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
I did rough estimates months ago somewhere in these forums. Even if FTTP takes an extra 90 days (which seems roughly where it is forecast to be at the moment), FTTP will be already earning more revenue within the first 3 months than FTTN will be at 6+ months. At that point the CAPEX is done, the OPEX is lower, and FTTP sites are just raking in the dough.
I dread to think what will happen with the 18m cutoff for FTTN. At least with FTTP the change is very visible to every home owner, but with FTTN if you don't follow the rollout, you may not even know that it has occured. Add on to the fact that people don't lose their copper and will cling on further to their special services, I see the 18m easily blowing out to 24m+ for the first FTTN sites.
fttn/fttdp might be an applicable install 10-20 years ago, today it is hardly worth given the distance limitations copper as service medium..
whilst the plan indicates fttn/fttdp as a cheaper to install solution, though go and ask telstra to install vdsl for you and will find a $5,000 PRICE tag you will have pay at a bare minimum..
now add 300-1,500 services at that price and a unreliable copper service past 1km and past 100meters from the pit a viability of vdsl/lan services..
Mac i suspect we are looking a 20-45 trillion on the non existent repairs and maintenance contracts to telstra for the next 30-60 years for the copper..
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Upload and network reliability. ie. Rain, sun, degrading copper. Power usage == a whole power station for nodes.
Mac i suspect we are looking a 20-45 trillion on the non existent repairs and maintenance contracts to telstra for the next 30-60 years for the copper
As a TLS shareholder I welcome that news!
Not that I believe the figures or that the FTTN solution is as terrible as made out here.
Power usage == a whole power station for nodes.
Here we go again, typical for posts on this site � ultra exaggeration. Either a mini power station or the nodes just self replicated a thousand times. There is enough genuine data to argue each side of this technical/economic debate without resorting to outlandish claims. Mind you, publish it on the web and it becomes fact eh!
Wow, this is what Frank was talking about, even if FTTN is quicker to build it is not an advantage if the takeup lags too far behind FTTP.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
In one all inclusive line that says it all:
IF the Cost per Premises is lower on FTTN in comparison to FTTP, then the benefit is definitely wasted on the lower uptake rate on FTTN in comparison to FTTP while NBN Co is rolling out faster FTTN.
Good morning ... :)
Nice information Nigel :) great work!
Hopefully everybody could understand my croaky voice.
That assumption is exemplified by the marketing campaigns of the various telcos hocking NBN, where download limits are shouted in big pastel coloured numbers while finding the actual speeds takes so much clicking around you can only assume the telco would prefer not to talk about it.
That irks me seriously..
The Telstra ad is the worst. Picture a family of several members, on several devices, movies , online games etc and then the claim..
"All at the same time"
No speed is mentioned.. yet they claim by being connected to the nbn , you can do all these things without buffering..
Well you can't do that on 12/1. My son can tell you that. He's like that family in the ad. I doubt if you could do it on 25/2.
The charity organization I work for has 32 connectors to one line.
Dont tell me 25/2 will be OK for them.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Is there a link to stream or transcript.?
At least with FTTP the change is very visible to every home owner, but with FTTN if you don't follow the rollout, you may not even know that it has occured.
I wonder how much this point has affected take up rates of FTTN? Especially with the later FTTP installs (where every PCD was installed whether you asked for it or not) it was bleedingly obvious that a new connection would be available soon so people looked into it. There is a very high likelihood that many people in the FTTN footprint don't even know it is being installed (if they don't happen to drive past a node while it is being worked on).
Have nbn been sending out mail about the FTTN rollouts in those areas? I moved away from my last house before they started coming.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
That's the NBN Co financial death spiral I was banging on about the other day in Whirlpool.
Here we go again, typical for posts on this site � ultra exaggeration. Either a mini power station
Its is roughly a powerstation overall needed for 50,000+ nodes
or the nodes just self replicated a thousand times
No idea what you mean by that.
Is there a link to stream or transcript.?
Should be a link here not long after the show. Local time of interview was 8:47am I think it was. I got around 10min in.
http://www.abc.net.au/brisba
Have nbn been sending out mail about the FTTN rollouts in those areas? I moved away from my last house before they started coming.
FTTN is rolling out around me and it is very hard to miss. As it approached the date to go live the service providers, particularly Telstra, have ramped up publicity and feet on the ground in shopping centres etc.
Also it is interesting that it appears a lot of the effort, and cost presumably, has gone into the laying of purpose built new conduit to provide the OF link to all the nodes. So presumably when the whiners have their way and all this is replaced by FTTP, it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node.
On the other hand the negative campaign is gaining traction with help from poorly written articles in the local rag. Several articles pointed to poor service in Newcastle and neatly stepped over the fact they all seemed to relate to the backhaul problems of one small provider. Even Paul Budde was less than clear in his comments regarding the Hamilton exchange. Then problem referenced would have been the same even if these customers were on FTTP, it had nothing to do with the copper in the exchange.
So presumably when the whiners have their way and all this is replaced by FTTP, it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node.
Except the Fibre doesn't come from the node. It has to be taken to the fsam . The node becomes obsolete.
Its is roughly a powerstation overall needed for 50,000+ nodes
By my reckoning there are 4 main power stations in NSW, the smallest producing 1400Mw. Show me your maths. 50,000 nodes compared with 2.8 million households in NSW using some of that power output to run lights, power, heating, hot water etc never mind all the industrial use. See Computer World 10/6/14 "FTTN power bill $89m per year. Does not seem like much of a power station.
Except the Fibre doesn't come from the node. It has to be taken to the fsam . The node becomes obsolete.
Rubbish. It can be repurposed. Technology creep, we can't have a smaller FSAM where some of the nodes are. In any case there is now a lot of the fibre around all these main streets, presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also. Just because FTTP plan had the FSAM back at the exchange with OF running out to the GPON links for each bundle of houses does not mean there are no alternative topologies that could work when required.
it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node
The FTTP will not be connected at the node...
Rubbish. It can be repurposed.
Nope...that is why the FoD is bypassing the node completely today.
presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also
Nope...4 strands per node.
The FTTP will not be connected at the node...
Think outside the nine dots. Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant, but it is a location with power etc and could have a mini FSAM installed etc feeding the local loop (that would need to be installed). OK there could be some cost penalties but surely simpler than rejigging the whole damn lot.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people
Yes, I heard you Nigel... good effort you got some good points across, I think the ABC presenter was stunned with some of the information.
It is got that this issue seems to be getting a run on 612 ABC and lots of business people are coming on saying how the current MTM mess is making it very difficult to run their businesses.
There looks to be some momentum there, if the ALP wants to win the election they need to raise the profile of this issue.... I think they will do that .. it is just a question of timing ... the clock is ticking ... I expect the alarm to go off soon. :)
Nope...4 strands per node.
And where I am there are 5 nodes within half a km, so 20 fibres and basically fed by the same main conduit. So how many OF from the FSAM to here under your plan to feed each of the 32 houses on a loop. Remember OF has "unlimited" potential. As I said just rethink the design move some of the stuff closer to the end point.
The node becomes obsolete.
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
Also there is still the contributing issue of the Network Design Rules that have been changed. No redundant design on FTTN.
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
So making FOD even more impossible than it already is.
So making FOD even more impossible than it already is.
FoD in the current offering is just a service that is there for political arguments.
Practically it is not worth a cent, if you consider the default bandwidth capacity towards to the Node. On a busy evening, after 18 months of activation, the available default bandwidth becomes rather crowded and the opportunity to receive even remotely the speed purchased on FoD I would consider impossible.
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
Yup, how nice the public has been sold a dud.
:0<
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
agreed, though I believe they are simply sticking multiports at the node and using the spare strands from that to run out to max 32 premises per multiport. it is essentially a separate network, you are right. end user is paying for it all � it is meant to be at no cost to NBN, in line with current govt policy.
end user is paying for it all
In engineering terms there is always a solution, in cost-economical terms mostly there isn't. It mostly boils down to one question from the engineer to his manager: "How much are you willing to pay for it?" :)
Calculated a rebuild in the past, top of my head, around A$50b if the FTTN would be rolled out completely. The longer the FTTN roll out continues, the closer we get to this number. If a switch to FTTP (perhaps in combination with FTTdp) is required after the election, the balance act will be to stop the roll out of FTTN as cost-economically as possible while at the same time start-up a FTTP roll out as soon as possible.
I understand the NBN-policy is in the ALP budget which is financial sensible. It is the kind of sensibility I would expect from NBN Co in regards to their Corporate Plan. Claiming that FTTP is the end solution, implies that financial responsibility should be taken how we get to that end point.
A desktop analysis into a rebuild to FTTP would be a good idea. Likely Professor Ergas can offer a helping hand. :P
Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant
Which is what will happen with a full FTTP roll out.
You cannot simply upgrade fttn to fttp � it doesn't work that way for a number of reasons.
The LNP have stuck us with a solution that isn't even adequate for today's needs.
A desktop analysis into a rebuild to FTTP would be a good idea. Likely Professor Ergas can offer a helping hand. :P
$25b for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model..?
$25b for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model..?
$25 for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model ... sorry that is a statement of net worth, not build cost.
$25 for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model ... sorry that is a statement of net worth, not build cost
Lol.. depends on ergas interpretation..
Rubbish. It can be repurposed. Technology creep, we can't have a smaller FSAM where some of the nodes are. In any case there is now a lot of the fibre around all these main streets, presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also. Just because FTTP plan had the FSAM back at the exchange with OF running out to the GPON links for each bundle of houses does not mean there are no alternative topologies that could work when required.
No point. The fibre is piss easy to run from the FSAM � because the ducts have already been cleared to run the fibre for the node. There is no reason to run mini-fsams. Just run the FSAM � run the fibre out through the pre-cleared ducts and you are good to go.
The nodes are redundant. A waste of time, as waste of space. The FSAMS can sit in the best choice for their location, not on the side of the road.
There is a very high likelihood that many people in the FTTN footprint don't even know it is being installed (if they don't happen to drive past a node while it is being worked on).
That's still no reason to think that the NBNis bring installed in your area. A node is being installed near my son's school in the Blue Mountains (did a lovely job wrecking some folk's footpath and fence), and there isn't an NBN symbol in sight. My missus had no idea it was NBN related, even though I talk her ear off about the issue.
Combine that with the older population up here, and it's likely bugger all people know NBN is rolling out without searching for the info.
HFC has the same problems of bend radius as most optical fibres, just that a 10 times of a 10mm diameter HFC cable is much bigger than 10 times a 3 mm diameter SMOF fibre NBN Co was using for lead ins
The true cost of HFC is not yet known but obviously it will all be in the HFC lead-in. From my reading everything else just seems to be using the existing HFC plant, other than the CMTS:
DO they need to deploy Fibre like they would for FTTP or FTTN for HFC. I have seen a lot of NBN workers in Yangebup where I live and haven't seen any Fibre being deployed.
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
You will see the same with HFC, a relatively low take-up rate. If you are a Bigpond cable user going to NBN will be a step back: you lose your landline and need to rely on the more unreliable VoIP and if you have Fast cable with 35 Mbps you will be downgraded to 25 Mbps NBN (reduction of 30%!). ADSL users with new HFC NTDs may be excited by this new technology (which they had access to already but maybe never realised) and be the majority of early adopters.
And where I am there are 5 nodes within half a km
Is that all, around here we have about 10 nodes within half a km
Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant, but it is a location with power etc and could have a mini FSAM installed etc feeding the local loop (that would need to be installed).
And the current FTTN customers do what while this is happening?
And the current FTTN customers do what while this is happening?
"Who cares, they should move to somewhere that has better connectivity"
/sarcasm
or that the FTTN solution is as terrible as made out here
Don't take the word of posters here but check out the posts of those suffering through the FTTN rollout on FTTN threads like NBN � Cannington WA. There are very few happy customers..... Comparatively for FTTP rollout FTTP went like a dream while it was going and improving as it went both delivery and cost wise. It must be costing a fortune to fix all the problems, and RSPs are giving upgrades just to keep customers happy which also costs them. 'Terrible' may be a kind word in this instance....
Hopefully everybody could understand my croaky voice.
Is there a transcipt or summary...?
Is there a transcipt or summary...?
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
http://www.computerworld.com
Hi Australia how's your 25mbps going?
Here it is.
Good interview, it's amazing the difference between an interview with someone who knows what they're talking about and a minister dumped with the portfolio regurgitating factually incorrect talking points prepared by someone else.
it's amazing the difference between an interview with someone who knows what they're talking about
It's like stumbling into oppsiteland
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Nice one mate.
Well worth listening too.
By my reckoning there are 4 main power stations in NSW, the smallest producing 1400Mw.
That's NSW, sure, here in WA, our best powerplant does 854MW, Western Power can't even get things right when it comes to keeping power up and running.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Really good listen, clear, accessible and to the point. Thank you.
It's like stumbling into oppsiteland
Nice one mate.
Well worth listening too.
Thanks, good work. Your voice was nice and clear.
Really good listen, clear, accessible and to the point. Thank you.
Cheers guys/girls.
I was surprised I was given that much airtime. Although it felt like it was over too fast. I'll have to do write up a list of talking points if I get another opportunity.
There looks to be some momentum there, if the ALP wants to win the election they need to raise the profile of this issue....
They have to be allowed to air NBN issues.... I heard on ABC radio this morning that Shorten's sound bite this morning (to be done later) would include NBN (first point mentioned) etc in Labor economic Plan announcement. Seen minimal footage of Shortens piece and summaries do not include reference to NBN, in fact Cormann and Turnbull got more air time criticising the announcement. Have to laugh at Turnbull's 'glossy brochure' attack � take a look at his "Our Economic Plan' which they all carry around Abbottesque like. Their short section referring to NBN is Fifields tweet posted earlier and criticises Labor rather than present their own Economic Plan � political deflection when you have nothing good to present....
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
That's what FTTN is all about isn't it?
Cheers guys/girls.
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises. What did you mean about that?
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises. What did you mean about that?
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Great stuff Nigel...hope there were lots of Qlder's listening and hopefully a few media outlets will be prompted into action, after all they always want controversy...here's their chance.
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Didn't that used to be a bad thing? ;)
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Wasn't Cannington mentioned?
Wasn't Cannington mentioned?
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Go easy on me :)
No need too, you were brilliant!
You got to the fact of the matter and demonstrated why the current situation is a farce.
I expect the AFP will be readying a raid on you.../sarcasm
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
It's up to the LNP to prove otherwise.
Since when has the truth been central to the nbn policy debate?
Everything Nigel stated is true.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Surely you should be pushing for Turnbull's NBN Co to change their reporting like you expected Labor's NBN Co to?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Bahahaha! Typical. So Nigel cant win. He has to name a place to be given credibility, but it doesn't matter anyway if he does name a place because Turnbull's NBN Co cant be wrong.
.
one area doesn't indicate a problem
Sure, check individual FTTN deployment threads, there are lots of posts from lots of deployment regions not able to connect for various different reasons. The gist of it is, there does not appear to be a standardised FTTN installation, most require some kind of technical intervention. This wasn't required for FTTP.
Since when has the truth been central to the nbn policy debate?
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Honestly, the only rollout rates worth reflection are the connection stats � 76% on Labor-contracted FTTP, 4% on FTTN.
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
You are sounding a bit panicked their KF � it's not like the mtm is a vote loser for Malcolm as people are starting to realise who is responsible for the lack of improvement.
The gist of it is, there does not appear to be a standardised FTTN installation, most require some kind of technical intervention.
This should'nt be a surprise to NBN Co because it was made apparent in their trials. The speeds they quoted werent possible without multiple visits from technicians to "tweak" the connection. People asked the question back then, that if this was required for all connections, how is the MTM going to be cheaper or faster, because it adds a massive extra level of cost and scheduling issues on top of an already expensive, slow rollout.
Its a shame people like Kingforce didn't ask the hard questions of the Libs back then. Maybe now we would have a better outcome.
Maybe now we would have a better outcome.
They still support MTM so I doubt it.
Good work Nigel � if you need to be bailed out let us know.
He has to name a place to be given credibility,
It would be a start.
But it doesn't matter anyway if he does name a place because Turnbull's NBN Co cant be wrong.
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero). The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
Almost as good as 25mbps for everyone by 2016! Or FTTN will only take 6 months to start rolling out? Or, the copper wont need much remediation? The list goes on and on!
St Marys POI. 5CPK3 and 5CPK10. Cannington. There's others.
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
No. You asked for examples and you were given them.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem
What do the liberals propose?
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
Well you know them pixie dusting fairies pop up every now and then.
Like the same ones that fixes the copper network.
Huh!
:0<
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
It's a problem with honesty.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Many thousands. Are you seriously asking what should be done about it? The answer is obvious � tell the truth.
name one place where this was a problem.
The St Marys thread includes many posters affected by this deception.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises
lol now you're blaming Labor for not explaining how they will fix Turnballs mess of a network?
Almost as good as 25mbps for everyone by 2016! Or FTTN will only take 6 months to start rolling out? Or, the copper wont need much remediation? The list goes on and on!
Yup the LNP trumpet blowing in the ocean really.
It would be a start.
Not really something you should be commenting on.
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem
You said you would ignore them regardless.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero).
Turnbulls NBN CO is now doing exactly the same thing � funnily enough, just before an election where the Libs are getting drastically desperate for runs on the broadband board. Why aren't you calling them out over this as you do with Labor?
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build and that would give flexibility to pay contractors more. Which has nothing to do with anything that is being discussed, but regardless, hasn't happened. The cost has blown out, and contractors are still unhappy.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Give us a break! This is the Coalition thread. Nothing to do with Labor. The question that needs to be asked is why the Libs have made this mess, and why are they allowing NBN CO to do the exact same things that the Libs criticised Labor for. The only reason we have FTTN is because of Turnbull. What is he doing to fix it?
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Sorry, thats off topic. This is the Liberal Policy thread. What do your mates propose to fix the problem?
Its a big problem, because despite the rhetoric, and the lies (such as Pyne: The nbn is on track), people are realising that they arent getting what was promised. And a significant proportion who are getting it, are running into serious problems. The regional threads in here a full of them.
So I repeat, what is the Liberal Policy to fix this? They are running out of money, and MTM doesnt make enough to cover commercial interest rates. How will they fix it?
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem.
How about $29.5 billion to provide 25Mbps to all by 2016.
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
Wrong, the Coalition's strategy was to pay contractors more to not do the work, in order to scupper the FTTP rollout.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Stop the stupidity of rolling out FTTN in 2016 using copper that is not fit for purpose.
ive us a break! This is the Coalition thread. Nothing to do with Labor. The question that needs to be asked is why the Libs have made this mess, and why are they allowing NBN CO to do the exact same things that the Libs criticised Labor for. The only reason we have FTTN is because of Turnbull. What is he doing to fix it?
Exactly the libs are absolute hypocrites with the NBN. Labor got blasted for the FTTN proposition and rightly so. But the Libs do it its all just dandy o for them to do it.
Stop the stupidity of rolling out FTTN in 2016 using copper that is not fit for purpose.
Indeed take the logical common sense way.
Give us a break!
We're in the middle of an election. So we need to compare to Labor's plans.
Nigel was specifically asked how the major parties were going to fix the "network shortfall".
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
Exactly the libs are absolute hypocrites with the NBN. Labor got blasted for the FTTN proposition and rightly so. But the Libs do it its all just dandy o for them to do it.
The term "Fraudband" was initially coined by a LNP Politician. Fiona Nash I believe, to describe a FTTN rollout that would not meet expectations and blowout costs by 3 to 4 times the estimate.
http://www.fionanash.com.au/
Here we are about 10 years later, and things are going exactly the way Ms Nash predicted. Irony is such a cruel master.
. Irony is such a cruel master.
Yup and sadly the consumers are the ones who are getting bite marks from it.
:0<
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Brilliant job NN
I can just envisage the Labor press announcement of their official NBN policy.
Get the media in place, and then as an entree to the policy announcement with all of the press cameras rolling and microphones on, use at least all of the main points that Nigel raised to destroy the credibility of both NBN Co Management, Turnbull & Fifield and supporting team of the Federal Coalition's NBN/MTM. And whilst there at it, raise the issues of why many people are only connecting at 25/5 or less speeds, because of the way major RSP's are marketing speeds, combined with how NBN Co is pricing speeds and all the inherent issues with the FTTN/B transition period and examples of disconnections, line disruptions and the multitude of stuff ups with migrations and connections to FTTN from poor SLA's and systems between NBNCo and the RSP's, or the inability of NBNCo or the RSP's and all their various contractors and their subcontractors to train enough workers for the NBN Rollout. Plus add in the appalling FoD/Technology change program. All before Labor announces it's NBN policy.
The damage to the Federal Coalition from the resulting publicity from the entree to the NBN Policy might cost the Federal Coalition what they require to maintain power after the election, and as a minimum require them to immediately address and be honest about what is really going in with the FTTN.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Great interview on ABC NerdyNigel, very good mate. They might get you on as a regular commentator. :-)
So we need to compare to Labor's plans.
What are the Coalition's plans? 25Mbps to all by 2016?
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem
It's lucky for you that nbn� are so transparent, isn't it... can't have facts to prove how badly it's going, can we.
it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
So you admit that the Coalition have stuffed up and are unwilling to address their failures?
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
No party � speak for the LNP, don't think the ALP don't have a plan to fix it.
They have not revealed what they are going to do yet.
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Thanks for mentioning uploads.
Very apt term "Regret capital" of FTTN nodes.
We're in the middle of an election. So we need to compare to Labor's plans
Comparing means that you are willing to analyse both sides. You aren't interested in that. Besides, this is the Coalition thread. Constantly diverting to Labor has no relevance here.
Nigel was specifically asked how the major parties were going to fix the "network shortfall".
So how are the Libs going to fix it? Its their mess. Labor only need to fix Turnbulls mess if they get into power, and you can discuss how they are going to do that in a different thread.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
You are partly right. The Libs are definitely unwilling to fix their mess. I am not sure you meant to admit that though.
Thanks BM. Was rather nerve racking.
If you get the opportunity again as far as NBN policy is concerned you can refer people to LNPs Our Economic Plan or Fifield's tweet...one and the same morsel of rubbish. It demonstrates the complete lack of sincerity of this LNP govt to building a National Broadband Network infrastructure...not a road, so not worth anything to them...
It also demonstrates they have no idea of the contribution a real NBN can have to Innovation, Health, Education, the whole economy etc � more than just for emails.
Anyone else in Nigel's situation might want to, if they have the opportunity, to make comparative reference to the reality of a premises on one side of the road having FTTP and the other side directly opposite having FTTN. I use the example of a house owner with FTTP and his/her business on FTTN.
Comparing what each costs and what each delivers, currently as is the reality for me I pay $89/mth for 100/40 FTTP. For most part FTTN offers 25/5 for similar cost. I get near enough to consistent 100/40 (I get what I pay for) whereas real life experience with FTTN build right now as posted on Whirlpool threads is you get anything to nothing at whatever time of day/night � if you can get connected at all. One then needs to consider what are the upgrade paths...and who pays for the upgrades and how.
One of the many nodes that has just gone in here, has had a brand new second pillar installed to service it (the short one on the right) http://i.imgur.com/53R3OHU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/UsqrVL0.jpg
This is a node that has 5 other nodes a block away from it (pretty sure this pillar is not to service those other nodes, they all have their own pillar already)
And a couple of blocks away, another brand new pillar to go with it's skyscraper node http://i.imgur.com/GSqJ84f.png
If it's a problem with the system
No if about it Kingy, read the FTTN threads or even a couple of posts I have linked directed to you for a response/comment.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Way too many to just a process problem � it is total failure. It was reported on ABC radio that Telstra (not NBN Co) announced they and NBN CO had agreed to stop rollout of FTTN until they had "worked out what the problems were...". Quite an admission they have no clues.
What should be done....Do FTTP it is proven success in all facets....
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
And you should know it is a problem and where it exists without asking posters here to inform you and do your work for you.
No if about it Kingy, read the FTTN threads or even a couple of posts I have linked directed to you for a response/comment.
Probably conveniently ignored it.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero).
A large portion of that was what has become FTTB which it took Turnbull over two years to get going, deadline after deadline missed and reset � he failed miserably yet you point the finger at Labor...?? He also screwed up with TPG access by trying to be too smart. Your hero??
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
Success is doubling teh cost ??? contractors just love Turnbull eh? Another admission of failure...??
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Yes its a problem and they should scrap it asap...only real solution
https://delimiter.com.au/201
FTTN still causing massive outages in Newcastle, says Labor
residents in early stage rollout areas in locations such as Newcastle have previously reported substantial problems with the technology.
This morning Shadow Regional Communications Minister Stephen Jones told the Broadband in the Bush Forum in Queensland that the problems were continuing. Click here to download the full speech in Word Doc format.
Jones said a resident of the Newcastle suburb of Belmont had recently revealed that the FTTN connection she had received was slower than the ADSL connection it replaced.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem
You have been advised of threads to see the reality for yourself. You obviously choose not to, so end of responses Kingy...wasting everyone's time again...
Not only do people have trouble proving
They've just linked to some examples � you ignored them (as usual).
Jones said a resident of the Newcastle suburb of Belmont had recently revealed that the FTTN connection she had received was slower than the ADSL connection it replaced.
No say it aint so.
The MTM is absolutely perfect we don't need a fibre network.
/sarcky
Talk about monumental screw ups on a high scale.
Thanks Abbott and Turnbull for creating this I wouldn't even spit on it if it was on fire MTM nonsense.
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Do you backup your points with facts and references?
Why do you care so much, its a non-issue right? Are you desperate?
The FTTN is a mess, the numbers are all fudged up and the LNP is trying to cover its tracks.
If the LNP can put out so much misinformation, then we are well in our rights to say whatever we want. BTW what we say is pretty close to the truth. We see through the shenanigans presented by the LNP.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
That's an odd response.
First, you are are only concerned if it is a serious problem.
Next, you are not bothered because no party is willing to do anything about it. Well, one party is actually entrenching the problem for future generations because it is actively pursuing a policy and plan that builds the problem in and continues with it.
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises.
Talking about misleading and deceptive conduct, it is my view that NBN Co places the RSPs at risk of breaching the Australian Consumer Law on section 18.
The problem is that NBN Co and the LNP wants us to believe that FTTN is just as good as FTTP speed and reliability wise.
To limit their risk, RSPs got smart and sell first a lower speed and then upgrade the speed when the line results are clear at the End User's end. This move limits their risk of breaching section 18. They are not prepared to sell that Rolls Royce Lemon which has been cooked up by NBN Co and Co. as a Rolls Royce.
Practically, it undermines the political argument that FTTN is a suitable replacement for FTTP and all we need. It is rather interesting that the interests of NBN Co and the LNP are opposite to the interests of the RSPs, yet the RSPs sell the service and not NBN Co or the LNP. It appears that the RSPs are getting caught in the middle, while the End Users slowly discover what a cat in a bag is sold to them.
Obviously "pushing" End Users on lower speeds, obfuscates the demand and it also provides again a false argument to NBN Co and the LNP that higher speeds are not required. *)
In the meanwhile ACCC staff is running around in the hallways, fingers in their ears and shouting as loud as possible "we can't hear you".
In the process Bill Morrow is stating repeatedly that his NBN Co is not responsible for the drop in our internet speed ratings. Perhaps he should wake up to the real world where it is clear that RSPs are not going to take the legal risks of that what the NBN Co and the LNP think are reasonable political risks.
[On edit, added *)]
Jones said a resident of the Newcastle suburb of Belmont had recently revealed that the FTTN connection she had received was slower than the ADSL connection it replaced.
NBN, Turdbull or Liefield will simply state its a rsp congestion issue not NBN faults.
Whilst may be true it is indeed a RSP issue for some (not all) this still tracks back the the cost/demand prices set by NBN.
So in fact it really is NBN fault.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem
Someone has already pointed out 5CPK3 and 5CPK10 � just check the St. Marys thread, what about Cannington and Newcastle. Is that not proof enough?
Kingy � Why do you always put the onus of proof back on the individual posting, yet you constantly post blatant BS and are never compelled to provide any proof of your own?
Here it is.
That's really good stuff, and you finished with the 25Mbps to everyone by now dig. Beautiful work, Nigel.
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Great interview, mate. Good job.
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Just listened. Good job Nigel.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Hi Kingee ...... deflecting as usual I see.
Can I politely suggest that you head over to the Federal Labor NBN policy thread and see what sort of response you get to your question of Labor fixing up a problem with NBN� whilst we still have the LNP in power?
That'd be fun to watch. I'd get out the popcorn for that ...... and I don't even like popcorn!
The problem is that NBN Co and the LNP wants us to believe that FTTN is just as good as FTTP speed and reliability wise.
And it seems part of that process was making the expensive but otherwise apparently pointless change from NBN Co to nbn�. What other possible reason could lie behind such a decision?
The other vital aspect is financial viability. If we remove FTTP sectors from the equation, it is clear that the HFC/FTTN backbone of MTM won't be able to generate sufficient ROI, because inherent limitations mean the higher speed, higher value tiers envisaged in NBN are simply unavailable.
So the higher OPEX � HFC and FTTN � parts of MTM will be unable to generate sufficient ARPU to ensure the ongoing viability of MTM.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
We can't comment on plans to rectify the issue, due to NBN not stating what "network shortfall" means.
It could be a number of factors.
No techs
No copper link between node and pillar (faulty link)
No Connection list (wiring booklet from Telstra)
No software in place for that RFS area for RSPs to send in activation requests.
Until NBN declares to everyone what Network shortfall actually entails noone can specify a remedy.
*edit
It could be that NBN has run out of funds and can't pay Telstra cutover payments so they're delaying until they receive more revenue.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Just listened to the podcast. Well done Nigel.
Thanks all for the kind comments. It's time that all of us that know better (well most of us) start making noise in the right directions. I'm glad that most of you think I hit some important points but you forever think afterwards that you missed more. I was surprised at the length of time I was allowed to go on for. The NBN has been a building issue here on ABC Radio mornings with Steve Austin. I mentioned to the producer that it was about time that the media started to take notice of the NBN. One thing that was missed in the Soundcloud recording was a recording of the 25Mbps promise made by Abbott before the last election which also drove home my point at the end.
Thanks all for the kind comments.
You sounded nervous which is quite understandable if not used to speaking publicly. Overall you made some good points but I found a bit of confusion with discussion of ADSl 2 at the same time as FFTN. Different issues depending on the case. Unfortunately this is a common confusion, helped by the lack of understanding by the media, in the current debate. I think it would be helpful if any discussion of problems with the FTTN rollout is quarantined to discuss NBN issues not anything to do with the existing services, which may or may not work well depending on where you are. Similar for the issue of maintenance of the current ADSL and POTS service. Once you are on the other side of the story and getting or trying to get a decent service on FTTN/P/FixedW or Skymuster.
I think it would be helpful if any discussion of problems with the FTTN rollout is quarantined to discuss NBN issues not anything to do with the existing services, which may or may not work well depending on where you are.
When the FTTN rollout is impacting on existing services, it absolutely should be discussed.
discussion of ADSl 2 at the same time as FFTN.
I think you missed the point that when you cut over from ADSL to VDSL, if for some reason there is a problem with your FTTN install, you are stuck. You have no phone and no internet until the issue is fixed. Currently there is a long waiting list for technical assistance.
These issues don't exist with FTTP, or did you miss that?
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on
Just before the 2016 election, 100% of the premises cannot order a service on 5CPK except for the lucky few whose FTTP connections had already commenced by 9/13, and, under the LNP appointed board and corporate policy, finally completed a couple of weeks ago
You've got a bit of a nerve asking what Labor will do regarding the LNP's complete botch-up of the network � or are you testing the "It's all Labor's fault' sample loop for when your dissembly gets too much for even the most hardened on LNP supporter ?
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
<Sweetly> Would you like to come around to mine and have a look?
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
Look how that turned out for them � what a crock. By the way Kingy, where is my 25Mbps Fraudband service? It is now 2016 after all.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Replace copper with Fibre � now there's a real plan.
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Within one response � that has to be a record. Surely someone can come up with a bot that tricks Kingy into replying to and arguing with his own posts, and the rest of use can get on with something more worthwhile....
You sounded nervous which is quite understandable if not used to speaking publicly.
Which did not affect the overall performance by the poster.
Within one response � that has to be a record. Surely someone can come up with a bot that tricks Kingy into replying to and arguing with his own posts, and the rest of use can get on with something more worthwhile....
However, in return we get the classic Streisand effect.
Times now get interesting. Labor is starting their push by highlighting the failures in Newcastle. They are pointing out the whole thing is a mess, and its going to be interesting how the Liberals get themselves out of it.
I predict, they'll start with, Its labors fault. Followed by jobs and growth. Followed by policy on the run.
Good times..
First off, welcome back Frank!
Second Its about time Labors finally highlighting problems
https://delimiter.co
Good times..
But Malcolm has a plan that will make us all proud. I'm sure he's decided that all networks are thin at one end, much MUCH thicker in the middle, and then thin again at the far end. That is the plan that he has and which is his, and what it is too.
[With thanks to the Python team]
But Malcolm has a plan that will make us all proud.
he was so proud of his plan that he had his initials added to nbn for all to see the mark he left on it
nbnTurnbullMalcolm
Obviously "pushing" End Users on lower speeds, obfuscates the demand and it also provides again a false argument to NBN Co and the LNP that higher speeds are not required. *)
You mean contrived don't you....? Why else would they have removed the 50 etc speeds from the mix. Its all or nothing with a significant jump in cost between them so most people stay down at 25. Yes, it also saves LNP embarrassment that speeds can't be delivered.
Of course, if you pay for 100 and only get 25 why would you pay for 100...?
http://www.theherald.com.au/
Is he for real? Honestly? Contractors stopped under labor did they? Except they made 750k+ homes where as im not seeing that many on FTTN
�We�ve made a big turnaround. We now have 2.6 million premises where NBN is available and well over one million customers connected.
We are getting it built yet no one can connect to such an inferior service. Well Done Turnbull! So much for Ready for Service.
�It will be fully built in 2019-20.
Definitely not this inferior piece of crap you call infrastructure, just like your failed promise of 25mbps to all by the end of 2016
�It would no longer be able, in my view, to be categorised as an investment as it is now.
We can agree here. As it stands now, you have destroyed any opportunity for decent returns thanks to your choice in technology. Congratulations on doubling the cost of your own MTM and ruining any chance of getting anything back
An early nbn joke on the Chaser, and what a desk. :P
Until NBN declares to everyone what Network shortfall actually entails noone can specify a remedy.
Sorry, the meaning of "Network shortfall" is likely CiC.
NBN Co would likely argue that they do not want to let the market know of any shortage of labor, otherwise existing labor/suppliers or potential new labor/suppliers might use that to their advantage in or when negotiating for work and labor rates.
That irks me seriously..
The Telstra ad is the worst. Picture a family of several members, on several devices, movies , online games etc and then the claim..
"All at the same time"
Just like this southernphone envelope on my desk. Back of it says:
Why switch to nbn?
Enjoy access to faster internet speeds.
Easily handles multiple users online at the same time.
Great I won't have a problem having multiple people on at once and i'll have fast speeds!
So what are they advertising on the front... a 50GB 12/1 plan, so that's faster internet speeds and will easily handle multiple users at once?
Whats on the paper inside... two more 12/1 plans. Sure they say you can go to 25, 50 or 100 but only buried in all the lines of small print at the bottom of which how many people realistically read.....
LNP are banging on again about most people "choosing" 25Mbps or lower, is it any wonder when it's advertised all over the place as "fast internet speeds" "super fast NBN broadband" "lightning fast internet" but the plans offered with those words are only 25/12 if a speed is even indicated at all?
If they already get "super fast broadband" with their plan, why would they want to see about getting even faster... surely super fast will be fast enough...
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