karina keisler � ?@karinakeisler
Bill Morrow calls out former CTO in the room. Hello @gmclwill #CommunicAsia2016
6:38 PM � 30 May 2016
Don't know what that was about?
Gary McLaren
Oh I see.. not sure *shrugs*
Bill begging for a new job soon to Gary?
On this point Raoul is correct going by the annual reports. The non executive directors do not get bonuses.
I will edit my posts then.
it was the use of "deferred bonuses" that threw me.
A "Deferred Bonus" is a bonus that is "earned" this year but not paid till a year or more in the future, it was a way of trying to ensure that people didn't fluff up profits but leave the company a smouldering shell with the mamagement and board all making heaps and shareholders left with nothing
Formula 1 is working on VR broadcasts now.
Formula 1 VR is not an essential service.
If you really want a higher quality formula 1 experience you have a number of choices
1. Move to a country where formula 1 VR is offered
2. Get your driving license
3. Go watch a formula 1 race
4. Try and get a job on the F1 circuit
5. Try and get to know an F1 driver
However, Formula 1 and other VR services will assist provide revenue and profits from which to make FTTP services more viable to rollout further, broader and deeper.
They will also fast-track the adoption of new technology services and the upgrade of WAN/LAN/home network infrastructure and equipment, to make the whole end to end network more economically viable for FTTP and services that rely on the upload/download speed, reliability, low latency and upgradeability, that FTTP provides.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Please take at look at the annual report, no bonus deferral.
Hmm. If you take a close look at the remuneration section Ziggy is on a base salary of $209K with no bonus deferral.
That isn't the whole story though, is it?
Remember that period where Ziggy was being paid to be the Chairman of the Board as well as the CEO, at the same time?
Maybe you don't, when Ziggy was acting CEO was during the time that the Strategic Review was commissioned. That has proven to be a work of art rather than a serious business document.
I'd sack Ziggy for that reason alone.
Don't know what is going to happen
However, Formula 1 and other VR services will assist provide revenue and profits from which to make FTTP services more viable to rollout further, broader and deeper.
What if I want to build a VR shopping center? Where users can put in a pair of VR goggles walk around the complex and actually buy items in Australia? Even looking at ultra high resolution 3d models of the products they wish to buy. I guess they can't cause they don't have the bandwidth to support this.
Meanwhile the world moves onto that model and its the norm in those respective countries with gigabit to home services.
How about if we want to produce 3d VR scenes of tourist destinations within Australia and upload them so they can be paid per viewed by overseas consumers. Nope can't do that.
I guess Australia just doesn't want to be part of the global digital economy. Not a problem, guess its Monday to Friday 9-5pm, put in bugger all effort and don't care attitude.
Tell me how productive this nation will be just flipping papers around and digging up rocks, all while consuming endless finite resources funded by debt. We won't ever get back into surplus without inventing new industries or innovating properly. The NBN provides infrastructure to support innvation. The MTM handicaps the whole economy and nation.
Meanwhile the world moves onto that model and its the norm in those respective countries with gigabit to home services.
I'm currently testing the VR world with our industry at the moment.. Exciting times.
Using the Unreal Engine along with Tekla & Revit models, still many teething problems but the possibilities for the client are endless.
and yes I have direct fibre (not nbn)
I see Formula 1 is working on VR broadcasts now.
Maybe Daniel Riccardo can use it for training sessions for his engineers and pit crew ...... just not for when he and his team are in Melbourne on FttN though!
We won't ever get back into surplus without inventing new industries or innovating properly. The NBN provides infrastructure to support innvation.
Spot nbn amongst the Liberal Parties election plans and policies
https://www.liberal.org.au/our-plan
https://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies
nbn= an election policy/plan target so small, that they should just get of the "n" and "b" in the nbn and call it "n"(nothing or no ). Or at a stretch leave it as the "No Broadband Network" we want talked about or discussed much in the lead up to the Federal Election.
Tell me how productive this nation will be just flipping papers around and digging up rocks, all while consuming endless finite resources funded by debt. We won't ever get back into surplus without inventing new industries or innovating properly. The NBN provides infrastructure to support innvation. The MTM handicaps the whole economy and nation.
Excellent comment slam.
When it comes to productivity and that flowing down to communities and the benefits the resources industries in WA at least raised some interesting issues.
Local communities did not really benefit because fly in fly out and self contained accommodation etc at sites meant not much money flowing into the communities. The resources work force made up maybe 1-2% of workers in WA yet the cost of living topped Sydney and Melbourne � high property prices, high rents even coffee 25+% more than eastern seaboard. Lots of other examples. Only the few benefit and everyone else pays...
The FTTP NBN does quite the opposite distributing opportunity and capability across the population and the whole spectrum. You are quite correct MTM handicaps the whole economy and nation domestically and internationally. It would be terrific for this country to have Aussie based companies drawing international dollars back here rather than selling our assets eg. properties, farms, businesses...) or having the top brains move overseas because they can't function here or can't get remunerated to do the same thing.
A good read about why some people can and cannot get FTTN problems they have been having in the UK.
Tell me how productive this nation will be just flipping papers around and digging up rocks, all while consuming endless finite resources funded by debt. We won't ever get back into surplus without inventing new industries or innovating properly. The NBN provides infrastructure to support innvation. The MTM handicaps the whole economy and nation.
You hit the nail on the head.
"Hey NBN, where's my 8 month out of date roll-out plan?"
*nbn rubs chin thinking how it can get out of this*
https://twitter.com/jxeeno/status/737503846209978368
Ken Tsang ?@jxeeno 2m2 minutes ago
Under revised SAU, #NBN will no longer publish a quarterly update and will only publish 3 year plan once a year.
Transparent as a brick wall
Transparent as a brick wall
As a reply noted, they aren't even going to publish the 3 year plan � they will only make it available to RSPs who agree to their gag orders.
Of course, based on past performance, they will give updated information to Coalition MPs on request...
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
so, they want the amended SAU to actually mention FTTB, FTTN, HFC and maybe FTTdp, at a later date, whereas the previous one did not mention any technologies at all
One has to wonder why.
The original one seems to have covered NBN Co on anything they run out, the new one would seem to lock them into specific technologies
Oh I see, it is every form of fixed line EXCEPT FTTP
One would wonder if a "revised" NBN was to run FTTP later would it be now excluded from the revised SAU?
more rotting fish I fear
"Strategic" as in the S in SAU is already a dirty word to me, meaning covering the behinds of those who profit by it.
From Rockys link above
NBN Co argued the one-year construction plan updates had become "redundant" given its monthly ready for service releases and its three-year construction plan.
Are the RFS monthly releases publicly available, or are they only available to access seekers?
These were publicly available and published on the NBN website until August 2013.
Are the RFS monthly releases publicly available, or are they only available to access seekers?
In the submission to the ACCC they are looking to restrict them to access seekers only.
It's actually "Special Access Undertaking"
ok, "Special" as in allowances need to be made for them?
In the submission to the ACCC they are looking to restrict them to access seekers only.
Is there any progress info left for the public?
Is there any progress info left for the public?
only via the Telstra wholesale pdfs and spreadsheets for expected RFS and Cease Sale
Guess Telstra will get raided soon for leaking nbn� CiC data
Guess Telstra will get raided soon for leaking nbn� CiC data
Don't need to raid that joint, just walk in there with a fake CV and you get top job :)
uess Telstra will get raided soon for leaking nbn� CiC data
I doubt that will happen. They still leak more of their own CIC info, that and they are the biggest law firm in the country.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
He he he
I once paid an analysis company to tell me how good I am.. damn I'm good
I see, it is every form of fixed line EXCEPT FTTP
Yep, can't have that nasty stuff..
Oh I see, it is every form of fixed line EXCEPT FTTP
Yep ... how to slam a door and dangle a carrot in one SAU.
Sorry Coalition, I still don't buy your whole "technology agnostic" BS.
Oh I see, it is every form of fixed line EXCEPT FTTP
What is it with their insane obsession with ruling out FTTP?
https://twitter.com/stuffspu
karina keisler
?@karinakeisler
With FULL rollout soon in view & annual updates provided, the fanbois are calling for quarterly updates. Hell, why not weekly?! Daily? #nbn
Touchy.
Touchy.
Has anyone told her that her company are trying to do away with the annual updates, and keep the three year plans secret?
more like using smoke signals and heliographs in keeping with the Liberal's smoke and mirrors policy re MTM
Good point!
Anyone who can do a shot straight to camera while intoning Faster! Cheaper! Sooner! about the obsolete MTM is someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Or perhaps knows very well, and so appears to be lying their head off.
Quarterly updates are not unreasonable yet she goes off the deep end and reacts as if we are asking for the crown jewels.
NBNCo used to be able to do it, yet now she calls us a bigoted name because she can't handle the pressure.
One wonders why NBNCo persist employing someone who keeps making the management look bad.
Touchy.
Well if their IT systems were up to scratch, they could provide an almost "live" system, but that'd no doubt breach CiC, can't have people actually aware of the NBN's progress can we? They might actually question the "big" pre-election "apolitical" announcements...
In the submission to the ACCC they are looking to restrict them to access seekers only.
My point is that these seem to have been restricted to RSPs already. I am pretty sure it was the data from these reports that was the information feeding jxeenos mynbn site initially. After the election the format of the data was changed, or access was restricted, or both, which broke the scripts he was using to automate the import of this data.
Has anyone told her that her company are trying to do away with the annual updates, and keep the three year plans secret?
Have now:
https://twitter.com/djos_500/status/737551229761425410
@karinakeisler did you think we didn't notice #nbn are trying to do away with the annual updates, and keep the three year plans secret?
Cheers :)
I doubt that will happen. They still leak more of their own CIC info, that and they are the biggest law firm in the country.
Interesting suggestion.
If they are anywhere near as customer-focussed and social-issue-friendly as they often like to trumpet, why would they need over 200 lawyers in the legal dept? When support staff are added, they must have more than 300 people there.
Since the coalition still appear to be hell-bent on handing the MTM over to them, such a grotesquely overweight legal presence suggests that the future for end-users is likely to be a very unhappy one.
karina keisler
?@karinakeisler
With FULL rollout soon in view & annual updates provided, the fanbois are calling for quarterly updates. Hell, why not weekly?! Daily? #nbn
Touchy.
I can't believe that she uses the term 'fanbois'. (Well maybe I can given her poor track record.) Karina Keisler totally lacks any class or professionalism.
What is it with their insane obsession with ruling out FTTP?
Can't have anything to do with technical selection, or with future short- and long-term national interest.
Dang, perhaps it's just venal political bastardry still 'informing' all those recently appointed minions . . .
I can't believe that she uses the term 'fanbois'.
I suspect what we are seeing is the long term effects of living inside a echo chamber. Mgmt and LNP drop-ins at NBN have surrounded themselves with a coterie of yes people and are quite isolated from real world feedback on their decisions. They seriously think all dissenting criticisms are from deluded "fanbois", not from professionals with decades of experience in the field.
Can't have anything to do with technical selection, or with future short- and long-term national interest.
Dang, perhaps it's just venal political bastardry still 'informing' all those recently app
But, but, didn't they say they are technologically agnostic?
Well if their IT systems were up to scratch, they could provide an almost "live" system
Don't get me started on the lack of real-time or near real-time public rollout and migration, activation status info within NBNCo.
It's been a few years since I whirlpool "lectured" on that issue under both NBN 1.0 and 2.0 management.
Ok let's look in the Apple Store to see if there are any Apps in the NBN Store for you and me to get info from? Oh dear. Zip. Nothing. ZZZZZZZEEEEEEERRRRRROOOOO*0 =0
Why the bloody hell not?
Who made that decision?
Are there any planned for anytime in the next 4 years?
If not why not?
Won't the minister direct NBNCo to come up with some useful Apps into Build, Rollout, RFS etc or at least make the info available to third parties?
Will Labor at least election promise to do better on this front and direct NBNCo via the SOE in general terms to lift their game in this area? If not why not?
@karinakeisler
With FULL rollout soon in view & annual updates provided, the fanbois are calling for quarterly updates. Hell, why not weekly?! Daily? #nbn
I can't believe that she uses the term 'fanbois'.
Using derogatory term's to describe groups of people or individuals via Twitter.
Surely she has breached NBN code of conduct here.
Can't believe she has not been sacked yet.
Tells you something about the culture of Senior Management within NBN, or is she just getting away with it for some other reason I leave other's to speculate over? What power does she hold that let's her get away with such totally unacceptable public behaviour repeatedly for a Government GBE or any organisation for that matter.
Does she have a specific brief to abuse people via twitter to act as a deterrent for public critisism of things NBN Co related. Who signed off on that? Why is the taxpayer indirectly funding that sort of behavior? More like a Fascist State than democracy when that sort of thing is allowed to happen.
Can't understand why Labor or Greens or Xenophon does not go for the jugular on this issue. What are they so scared of?
http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/fanboi
fanboi or fanbois
1. Derogatory. A person with an irrational attachment to a particular item or brand name, and an equally irrational dislike for competing brands or items. This behaviour is often seen during discussion threads pertaining to ISPs, computer hardware or motor vehicles.
2. A person who has a strong dislike of a paticular item or brand name may incorrectly refer to another who uses that product as a fanboi.
But, but, didn't they say they are technologically agnostic?
As with all those coalition (previous) election promises, it seems we just didn't understand the meaning.
Apparently what they were actually conveying was: 'We will be technologically ignorant!'
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
Here's the links to the all the related Docs for mining of any more interesting things about the MTM rollout we did not already know. Reading for a rainy night/day (lucky thee's lots of rain in Sydney this week:)
https://www.accc.gov.au/regu
On 27 May 2016, NBN Co lodged a variation to its SAU with the ACCC.
6 docs from NBN direct links below
https://www.accc.gov.au/syst
Covering letter
https://www.accc.gov.au/syst
NBN Co supporting submission
https://www.accc.gov.au/syst
Expert report � Ordover and Shampine
https://www.accc.gov.au/syst
Expert report � Bishop and Officer
https://www.accc.gov.au/syst
Expert report � Analysys Mason (public version)
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Analyst firm Analysys Mason has found in a detailed report commissioned by the NBN company that the NBN company�s initial design for its Fibre to the Node, Basement and HFC cable networks is �prudent and efficient�.
Nice timing to release this in the middle of the Federal election campaign
Now how about getting some independent experts to analyse and publicly report on the public and private content of the twitter posts of all NBN Communications Staff as to whether they are acceptable.
the NBN company�s initial design for its Fibre to the Node, Basement and HFC cable networks is �prudent and efficient�.
Does nothing to address whether the strategic deployment plan FTTN/B and HFC is the best strategic choice for Australia.
Whether it is consigning Australia to be a Broadband backwater and third world digital nation.
Whether it is a wasted investment compared to other strategic choices and will result in NBNCo running out of funds before it is finished.
prudent and efficient�.
I acknowledge you are just quoting this.
Terms like this need to be quantified when talking about expenditure. If they are not, they are throwaway terms � not worth the paper they are written on.
Well if their IT systems were up to scratch, they could provide an almost "live" system ...
They have all the numbers, targets and actuals, by technology, and they can produce them as and when required. It is inconceivable that they don't. Let's get the blame where it belongs. The government requires them not to produce the numbers.
They might actually question the "big" pre-election "apolitical" announcements...
Turnbull is all the LNP has got. They have to protect his ego reputation public standing brand whatever is left.
Terms like this need to be quantified when talking about expenditure. If they are not, they are throwaway terms � not worth the paper they are written on.
but excellent terms to use to ensure you get more consulting work from an organisation.
I haven't yet read the reports,
was the nbn� brief to the consulting firms published or just their reports?
Using derogatory term's to describe groups of people or individuals via Twitter.
Surely she has breached NBN code of conduct here.
Twitter users who are offended should go to the NBNCo web site and register a formal complaint. Seriously. It will be a laugh if nothing else :)
https://www.accc.gov.au/sys
NBN Co supporting submission
3.4 Changes to incorporate products and services for FTTB, FTTN and
HFC36
Expansion of service description
67. The variation also includes an approach to facilitate incorporation of future network variants. For example, should nbn decide in future that it is in a position to develop and supply services over an FTTdp network, then it could bring such services within the scope of the NBN Co Network by introducing new Products and/or varying existing Products in accordance with the product development provisions of Schedule 1I (in respect of the Initial Regulatory Period) or Schedule 2D (in respect of the Subsequent Regulatory Period). At this stage, however, it would be premature to specifically include FTTdp-based Products (or Products based on any other potential technology variants) into the SAU.
Interesting references to FTTdp
Expanded definition of Premises
71. The variation also includes amendments to the �Premises� definition in Attachment C (Dictionary) to facilitate incorporation of MDU common areas and potentially a range of other locations within the scope of the NBN Access Service (noting that the variation makes Premises part of the description of the NBN Access Service). At this stage, nbn considers that it would be premature to specifically describe these other locations, but should nbn decide in future that it is in a position to develop and supply a Product to a broader range of locations then it could bring such locations within the scope of Premises by introducing the relevant Product in accordance with the product development provisions of Schedule 1I (in respect of the Initial Regulatory Period) or Schedule 2D (in respect of the Subsequent Regulatory Period).
What other locations might they be referring to?
Lamp posts, bus stops, street signs, footbridges, electricity poles, roof tops, mobile base station poles?
Turnbull is all the LNP has got.
That and an Australia flag or too.
God save the nbn..
Can't understand why Labor or Greens or Xenophon does not go for the jugular on this issue. What are they so scared of?
Give it a rest. There are better things to do rather than get worked up over a personal Twitter account
Nothing to see here, it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases.
A former ABC journo was bias on their personal Twitter account on the nbn, nothing wrong with that if it's a personal account
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Nothing to see here, it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases.
I think you know that's not true.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases.
karina keisler �
@karinakeisler
Corp Affairs @ nbn .
It's not just a personal account. She uses it to represent nbnco officially . She consistently posts nbn material..
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
... it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases ...
A person employed by a Government department, agency or GBE is held responsible for inappropriately commenting directly on their organisation or it's practices on a personal social media account inside or outside of work time. That her derogatory remarks and behaviours go unchecked by nbn� management, the NBN Board and the Government speaks volumes on the lack of professionalism, morals and ethics of the nbn� management, the NBN Board and the Government.
That you support (or at the least do not criticise) Karina Keisler's behaviour, and the tacit support of the nbn� management, the NBN Board and the Government through their inaction to curb her behaviour, tars you GMZT with the same brush.
It's not just a personal account. She uses it to represent nbnco officially . She consistently posts nbn material..
Indeed, and even if its was a personal account with her putting her job description in she is still representing the company she works for.
Some co-existence period stuff in the NBN Co SAU Variation docs.
Are RSP's clearly upfront warning and informing retail customers that VDSL2 line speeds cannot be optimised during the Coexistence Period?
Co-existence Period
['75. nbn has included a new clause 1A.4.4 (and a corresponding new clause 2A.4 in Module 2) setting out a Co-existence Period provision, consistent with the relevant supply terms agreed with access seekers under the WBA, that is relevant to the NBN Co FTTB Network and the NBN Co FTTN Network. The Co-existence Period will typically last for a period of 18 months after the Ready for Service date for each FTTB and FTTN area, but will be extended in some cases until all special services are migrated to the nbnTM network.
.........
During the Co-existence Period for a given area, there will be simultaneous supply of the NBN AccessService by means of the NBN Co FTTB Network or NBN Co FTTN Network and exchange-fed services,special services or other services to Premises using the public switched telecommunications network. To accommodate this, nbn will be required to adjust the operation of its networks by way of a downstream power back-off, which is a technique used to reduce signal strength from the nbn VDSL2 node to the UNI. This means that VDSL2 line speeds cannot be optimised during the Coexistence Period and the new clause 1A.4.4 reflects the effect of this on AVC TC-4 bandwidth profiles in respect of the NBN Co FTTB Network and the NBN Co FTTN Network
1A.4.4 Co-existence Period
During the Co-existence Period, the PIR (and the lower end of any PIR range) at
the UNI for each AVC TC-4 bandwidth profile will be: in respect of the NBN Co FTTB Network (except the 12 Mbps PIR (TC-4) downlink and 1 Mbps PIR (TC-4) uplink bandwidth profile), a minimum of 25 Mbps PIR (TC-4) downlink and 5 Mbps PIR (TC-4) uplink; and
in respect of the NBN Co FTTN Network, a minimum of 12 Mbps PIR (TC-4) downlink and 1 Mbps PIR (TC-4) uplink.
Indeed, and even if its was a personal account with her putting her job description in she is still representing the company she works for.
If I was to post tweets about my employer on my personal account without approval I would be up for disciplinary action.
If I was to post tweets about my employer on my personal account without approval I would be up for disciplinary action.
Yup, why people need to be very careful what they say on social media.
People have been fired from facebook posts.
But seems like Karina can get away what she says.
One day it will bite her in the bum.
http://www.cio.com/artic
maybe someone needs to tweet the link to her.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Give it a rest. There are better things to do rather than get worked up over a personal Twitter account
Nothing to see here, it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases.
I thought about giving it a rest, but decided to defy your wishes and instead go and take a look into the NBNCo code of conduct.
http://www.nbnco.com
The standards of behaviour set out in the Code of Conduct are expected of employees and contractors both during work hours and whenever your behaviour impacts nbn or your relationship with other employees, contractors or consultants of nbn. This may include, and is not limited to:
........
Activities on social media.
nbn will not tolerate behaviour or activities that impact on nbn and its reputation.
These behaviours and activities may include but are not limited to:
using image-recording devices (such as photocopiers, scanners and cameras) to capture and/or distribute
images of:
? private, classified or copyrighted documents or other material
AFP raid implications
.....
accessing, storing, processing or transmitting any information of a threatening, obscene, pornographic, discriminatory or harassing nature
that would include harassing tweets
activities adversely affecting nbn or its reputation (e.g. making unauthorised public statements about nbn or their position in respect of any matter)
? directly or indirectly engaging in any activity which could by association cause nbn public embarrassment or bring nbn into disrepute (including any activities on social media)
Beep Beep.
failing to comply with the nbn values
The Code of Conduct is based on our nbn values and the principle of respect.
? Respect for each other
? Respect for nbn
? Respect for the broader nbn reputation and environment
Beep
Related policies
Social Media Policy
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
When participating in social media other than on behalf of NBN Co, your legal obligations as an employee, consultant or contractor with NBN Co remain the same as they would be in other contexts of your life, even if you believe you are participating anonymously.
GMZ Knockout!
Should an employee, consultant or contractor choose to participate as a private citizen in
social media, they should do so without damaging the reputation of or infringing the
intellectual property rights of NBN Co, its employees, contractors, consultants, customers or suppliers. NBN Co may take reasonable and lawful steps in relation to any use of social
media that is not authorised or in breach of this policy.
And he's down for the count again.
Employees, contractors or consultants can participate in social media that is unrelated to
NBN Co or the NBN as any private citizen would without needing to reference their role at
NBN Co. As with any publicly visible activity, employees of NBN Co should endeavour to
conduct themselves in accordance with NBN Co�s values and in a manner that will not bring
NBN Co into disrepute.
This is getting embarrassing.
be polite to all people they interact with
Ouch. Tha hurts.
If you are unclear about the terms of this policy or whether your actions would breach your obligations do not publish the content and seek advice from your manager or speak to one of the Digital Communication Managers at NBN Co. It is safer for you to exercise caution as you have sole responsibility for what you post and publish online to the global community.
not disparaging NBN Co or any of its employees, clients, business partners,
suppliers or other associates, or make any statement which does, or is likely to,
bring NBN Co or any of these parties into disrepute or ridicule or otherwise affect
their reputations
? being mindful that any published content will probably remain in the public domain
for many years
? being respectful to their audience
Nearly finished.
Breach of this Policy
Failure to comply with this policy may result in NBN Co exercising its rights under a
contractor/consultancy agreement or taking disciplinary action against an employee under
the Managing Performance and Behaviour Policy. This action may include limitation of
access to computer, email and/or the internet, and in serious cases, may result in
termination of employment or your engagement with NBN Co.
Enough said
Was listening to Eddie McGuire's show, The hot breakfast on Triple M this morning.
They had a segment on why your internet speed is slow at certain times of the day.
The tech guy blamed the fttn change and said that Labor had it right with ftth.
Have a listen.
http://www.triplem.co
Apparently Telstra are coming on tomorrow to put their 2 cents in.
Have now:
Perhaps you could also ask for the location of the 'quarterly targets' for the next financial year.
I have not been able to find them on the nbnTM website.
Ziggy claims The company will meet its targets for the ninth quarter in a row.
What were those targets?
How challenging were they? Given the ease with which the annual targets have been met or exceeded this is a valid question.
I have serious concerns that the difficult targets have been pushed into the next election cycle. That represents a waste of at least 2 years, on top of the increased construction and revenue risks associated with the MTM rollout.
Does nothing to address whether the strategic deployment plan FTTN/B and HFC is the best strategic choice for Australia.
The date it was signed of on is significant! ;)
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Nothing to see here, it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases.
Yeah, you are full of it. I know for a fact that NBN Co have sacked employees for what they posted on their personal Twitter account.
NBN Co have a glass jaw and can't take a joke.
The date it was signed of on is significant! ;)
I can just see the headlines in the Tele tomorrow.
"Stop fooling around with Australia's future"
Does nothing to address whether the strategic deployment plan FTTN/B and HFC is the best strategic choice for Australia.
Why is ftth not mentioned?
Perhaps you could also ask for the location of the 'quarterly targets' for the next financial year.
Not much point, she's blocked me :-D
Why is ftth not mentioned
Too inconvenient, would have shown MtM to be the poor value for money we know it is.
1A.4.5 Remediation
If the Line rate at the UNI used to serve a Premises located in the footprint of the NBN Co FTTB Network or NBN Co FTTN Network is not capable of achieving the PIR Objective then:
NBN Co may conduct Remediation in respect of the Premises; and until Remediation for the Premises is completed, the downlink Line rate and uplink Line rate at the UNI used to serve the Premises may be significantly less than the downlink PIR and uplink PIR of the bandwidth profile ordered by the Access Seeker in respect of the Premises.
So if you order up to 25/5 FTTN and your line only sync's at 3/1, you might have to wait on your 3/1 and pay full price at 12/1 rates until nbn gets around to maybe successfully remediating your line.
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
Strikes me that may be to create the perception that there is an enhancement to MTM that increases the value of nbn and maybe some fool financier will lend them money...snake oil stuff....
In the submission to the ACCC they are looking to restrict them to access seekers only.
So NBN Co are saying to taxpayers thanks for your money now 'faff' off....
Great post politically incorrect
I like those ones when they're used against people who deserve a serve.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
One wonders why NBNCo persist employing someone who keeps making the management look bad.
lucky she doesn't work in a bank rather than NBN Co...gone in a flash....
Keisler totally lacks any class or professionalism.
Could be her last professional role.... who would employ someone with such poor people skills....
paid shills, produce perfectly timed eleciton propaganda for the gov
Is there anything suspect about the timing of this request to vary the SAU?
Wait for the election to minimise scrutiny?
@karinakeisler
With FULL rollout soon in view
No need for a full view....what has been seen to date is total failure in process, product and delivery.
Any diversion might be useful, eh? AFP raid , public abuse ....anything but scrutiny of performance
Whether it is consigning Australia to be a Broadband backwater and third world digital nation.
Anyone else getting a sense of sabotage here.... at least when Sol and his crew got out of order they was sent on their way...
Turnbull is all the LNP has got. They have to protect his ego reputation public standing brand whatever is left.
Diminishing daily not only with the Bishop backing today after crucifying Feeney for identical faux pas � double standards but the FTTN MTM is a disaster evident in threads where FTTN is being rolled out
http://www.computerworld.com
(Fibre to the distribution point � FTTdp � will also potentially be used, NBN has said.)
Uh... If they didn't accept it last year what makes people think they'll accept it now? Its their "silver parachute" (i refuse to use golden because golden is FTTP only and they'll never do that) to try and steal steam some peoples vote who demand proper NBN and not his MTM crap. And even if they did use it, I actually wonder how many people would be put on it... Just another broken promise if it ever does get put in this document
Slightly off topic
http://www.dailytelegraph.co
We should fear the god damn future and if this is the crap they keep sprouting. A smart man would learn from the past and predict whats needed for the future, and we need proper NBN. How is he still Malcolms right hand man
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
Arthur Sinodinos to seek political donation reform if Coalition re-elected
Why am i not surprised? I think this just validates what his been sprouting has been crap. Bowen put it nicely.
"Good luck getting that through your party room, Arthur," he said.
Mr Bowen said Labor would continue to push for a more transparent donations system.
"The threshold should be $1,000," he said. "We have consistently moved that in Parliament and been blocked at every turn.
"I would hope that Arthur would vote for it next time, given he's just expressed a personal view."
No surprises if Sinodinos wanted the exact opposite
http://www.computerworld.com
Another analysis was prepared by Analysys Mason, which was engaged by Webb Henderson on NBN�s behalf.
No surprise that it says � The analysis also says that the copper network should based on data provided by Telstra and NBN modelling, be capable of meeting the government�s download speed targets (25 megabits per second to 100 per cent of premises, and, further down the track, 50Mbps to 90 per cent of premises).
Should � really !!! You have to laugh (or cry) to that statement !!
Not much point, she's blocked me :-D
Did she block you after you replied to her on Twitter?
@karinakeisler did you think we didn't notice #nbn are trying to do away with the annual updates, and keep the three year plans secret?
http://www.nbnco.com.au/deve
This is getting ridiculous.
The new format nbn rollout mapping looks like it has been designed to ensure that it is even harder than before to try and determine the geographic extent of the mix of MTM technology rollouts from
1. Having a Show service type button default to Off.
2. When you turn the Show service type button to On, the Fixed Line v Fixed Wireless are both exactly the same color. With only a "pattern" as a differentiator
(a) Fixed line = very thin diagonal lines in a light shade of color with the original darker color as fill
(b) Fixed wireless = circle and cross pattern in a light color with the original darker color as a fill
Because of the use of exactly the same color for Fixed line and Fixed wireless, when you pan out over an area, the difference between the Fixed line and fixed wireless is impossible to detect on even a top of the range iMac 27 retina screen.
No surprises if Sinodinos wanted the exact opposite
Parallels to Turnbull and his agility and innovation push, in contrast to the legacy he will leave behind with his preferred strategic choice for his Government's NBN/MTM model.
there may be constraints in the manner in which nbn may utilise the MTM network in the future (e.g. nbn will need to continue to support the provision of Foxtel�s pay-TV services over the Telstra HFC network).
Nice for Telstra and News Corp.
Why is ftth not mentioned?
It probably was but because there are no issues with it there was nothing to report. The number of pages attributed to FTTN and HFC is a clear testament to the many risks that need to be considered and addressed in the report.
This report does not examine the merits of the specifications given by the Australian Government to nbn at a policy level that have an impact on the design of the network. Rather, this report examines the key choices or decisions that have been made by nbn in the design of its network within the overall parameters that have been established by the Australian Government at a policy level through its SoE.
Stop right there.
Scope alert.
Options for future capacity upgrades
? Although nbn does not currently have a detailed roadmap for upgrading the FTTN/FTTB network,
the options it is considering appear to be prudent, being in line with other operators internationally.
The use of the word "appear", materially waters down the degree of prudency.
The following options for upgrading its network would be available to nbn in the future:
� exploiting the evolving xDSL standards, and potentially using G.fast technology
� using the 30a frequency profile for VDSL2, which extends the spectrum available from
17MHz to 30MHz
� extending the distribution fibre network to reduce the copper loop length (e.g. by
deploying FTTdp architecture)
� using other technologies coexisting and overlapping in the MTM network
� upgrading to FTTP.
The options available to nbn are also likely to achieve efficient outcomes as it is based on an incremental upgrade of the existing network rather than deploying new infrastructure, thereby maximising the use of, and the investment return on, existing assets.
? We have not identified any concerns regarding the way that the FTTN/FTTB network is
designed which would prevent efficient and prudent upgrades being made to increase network capacity to address future demand.
Too important to leave to one consulting firm to provide an opinion. 2nd and 3rd opinions required.
? nbn�s ability to undertake upgrades will be dependent to some extent on the outcome of the current Communications Alliance process that seeks to deal with interference issues caused by the co-existence of different xDSL systems. Resolving these issues at the industry level will be important as interference may become a greater issue when FTTN/FTTB networks are upgraded to new xDSL technologies (e.g. G.fast provided over FTTdp) that will increasingly rely on vectoring to deliver their full potential in terms of bandwidth and return on investment.']
So in other words, an upgradeable network might be incongruent with wholesale competition. Leaving the network in the hands of only one wholesaler (i.e nbn or Telstra) as the only way to upgrade the network?
Or leaving those MDU's where NBNCo has allowed competing wholesale fixed line infrastructure or deliberately installed it's equipment in competition with the likes of TPG FTTB, in a position where they can't upgrade unless the Body Corporate agrees to somehow decommission all residents from one of the competing wholesale providers over time.
nbn�s decision to terminate the wholesale service at the wall plate is prudent, and in line with other operators internationally
Why prudent to do this for FTTN/B but not for HFC. Please explain.
If you are unclear about the terms of this policy or whether your actions would breach your obligations do not publish the content and seek advice from your manager or speak to one of the Digital Communication Managers at NBN Co.
The irony is that I would assume that Karina as the ?Executive General Manager Corporate Affairs at nbn Australia probably holds that position or equivalent level.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchers?
Could be her last professional role.... who would employ someone with such poor people skills....
Ummm ....... the LNP.
there is currently insufficient data available on the condition of the CAN to be able
to evaluate how much remedial and augmentation work will be required. Depending on the local condition of the CAN, if the extent of remedial and augmentation work is significantly different from what has been allowed for, then this may potentially raise cost issues from both a capex and opex perspective. However, as the network roll-out proceeds, further real data regarding the condition of the CAN will become available which may enable nbn to change its strategy to reduce its costs.
Like changing it's strategy to offer Satellite or Mobile Broadband as a fixed line substitute if the condition of the CAN and the required remedial and augmentation work required becomes an issue?
Hang on a minute. Back in March, Morrow was saying the copper was in better condition than expected. Now we have a handpicked by nbn consultant saying there is insufficient data available on the condition of the CAN ...... WTF
http://www.theregister.co.uk
nbn, the organisation building Australia's National Broadband Network, says the copper network it acquired from Telstra requires less remediation than it budgeted for.
At a press briefing today the nbn CEO Bill Morrow said he ordered a review of the state of the copper network.
�I had a team do a survey of pits out there,� he said. �They said on a per cent basis that the per cent [of copper requiring remediation] is almost half what we estimated.�
nbn has set aside funds for copper remediation, he added, and is currently �so far under budget on remediation compared to what the strategic review called for.�
And even if nbn's copper survey picked a poor sample of the network and remediation costs rise, Morrow said �there is a lot of buffer even if we are wrong in our estimates of the copper remediation.�
They seriously think all dissenting criticisms are from deluded "fanbois", not from professionals with decades of experience in the field.
Interestingly (or perhaps ironically � I'm never sure if I'm using that word correctly) former board member Simon Hackett ended a slide deck back in early 2013 (from memory) with a mocked up newspaper article showing Prime Minister Turnbull announcing FTTP as the Liberal party's policy for the 2016 election...
Edit: found it � https://simonhackett.files.wo
Ok let's look in the Apple Store to see if there are any Apps in the NBN Store for you and me to get info from?
They made an app, they just limited it to nbn� employees looking up information for friends and family.
Ultimately, the extension of the fibre access network will result in an FTTP network, where fibre is deployed all the way to the customer premises.
That won't please those wireless fanbois that think that fixed line networks will go the way of the dodo soon.
The upgrade path chosen by a particular operator will depend on a combination of:
? current passive and active network characteristics, in particular, the length and condition of
existing copper loops
? requirements by governments/national regulatory authorities to support infrastructure sharing
? end-user demand for increased peak and sustained bandwidth
? retailers� response to market competitive pressures
? availability of funds and appetite for long-term capital investment.
Upgrades are not likely to be uniformly applied across networks as the operators will have to consider the distribution of copper loops in their network to formulate the optimum technoeconomic upgrade strategy (i.e. balancing performance and cost).
Overall, we believe that FTTN/FTTB networks have a technically feasible, incremental upgrade path to keep up with market demand for bandwidth, but maximum performance may be compromised by infrastructure-sharing requirements, unless a technology (e.g. advanced vectoring system) aimed at mitigating interference between different systems is developed in the near future.
Technically feasible, but possibly financial unfeasible?
This calls for costing of upgrades of FTTN/B to FTTP as part of the nbn MTM costings.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Give it a rest.
You should follow your own advice Zealot...nothing to see here ....hahahahahahahaha!! Give it a rest....
Making your post relevant to NBN and on topic...there is so much policy failure to see with FTTN MTM...twitter or no twitter...
CiC Redactions on p112 in the section titled
Assessment of nbn�s decisions
Analysys Mason�s assessment of nbn�s network selection methodology
Maybe related to the FTTN v FTTB issue, where nbn has put itself in competition with the likes of TPG? And does not to reveal to either the public, the opposition, or TPG and other potential wholesale competitors, just how little FTTB and how much FTTN it is actually planning to role out under it's MTM model (in my uninformed join the dots (as opposed to receiving leaks) opinion)
If I was to post tweets about my employer on my personal account without approval I would be up for disciplinary action.
Wasn't there a couple of public servants (?) hammered for that just recently? rules for some...not others....
https://twitter.com/karinak
karina keisler Retweeted
Gary McLaren ?@gmclwill 12h12 hours ago
No argument with this slide from Bill Morrow � Aus #NBN is very unique. #CommunicAsia2016
The image with this tweet is enormously embarrassing. Surely NBN Co is not trying to focus on the asian market for funding ...hilariously 'funny' (strange?) but so embarrassing....
using the 30a frequency profile for VDSL2, which extends the spectrum available from
17MHz to 30MHz
This shits me the most.
Upgrade to 30a when the newest profile is 35b.
With Alcatel-Lucent�s Vplus products, service providers can deliver enhanced ultra-broadband speeds over their existing copper infrastructure. The portfolio includes:
Line cards (NDLT-J/K) for the widely deployed 7302 ISAM FD-16 and 7330 ISAM FD-8 shelves with Vplus (35b) and VDSL2 (17a) support.
Existing System Level Vectoring processor cards (NDPS-B) can be reused for Vplus 7302 ISAM FD-16 and 7330 ISAM FD-8 shelves.
FFS they have no planning for the future or current tech at all. Just pulling stuff from articles and putting it in their documents to look good.
MT � Hitler
NBN � German Generals � "Following orders"
Don't know who I dislike the most.
I thought about giving it a rest, but decided to defy your wishes and instead go and take a look into the NBNCo code of conduct.
The simple question is ...is anyone 'running' NBN Co?
This NBN Co code of conduct has been breached by KK on many instances over a long period of time. Perhaps Morrow is 'beholden' to KK if he upsets her....Abbott and Credlin parallel?
The same fate can't come soon enough....
The culture within NBN Co must be so strained and at breaking point for leaks and failure of fundamental process to be so prevalent.... not to mention the total failure to deliver a National Broadband Network.
Is it just coincidence that since Turnbull has moved to PM role things are running totally amock... how much hands on did Turnbull actually have seems a fair question....
Ziggy claims The company will meet its targets for the ninth quarter in a row.
What were those targets?
How challenging were they? Given the ease with which the annual targets have been met or exceeded this is a valid question.
Telstra have raised the issue by claiming to be $3B short on payments from NBN Co...only one reason for that....poor performance due to lack of build
Can someone on twitter ask Karina why they are thinking of upgrading to 30a or g.fast when vplus is the better, newer standard. ?
https://www.alcatel-lucent.com/solutions/vplus
Lovely infograph on that page comparing 17a, g.fast and vplus.
Ziggy claims The company will meet its targets for the ninth quarter in a row.
What were those targets?
Clare, Conroy, a key Clare staffer, Labor, fanbois, Fibre Zealots, at least 1 AFP raid to try and find the leak that killed Nemo, reality, and an increasing use of CiC as an excuse to decrease transparency.
Can someone on twitter ask Karina why they are thinking of upgrading to 30a or g.fast when vplus is the better, newer standard. ?
https://www.alcatel-lucent.com/solutions/vplus
Another reason why the investment in FTTN under the current design plan is a waste and likely worth a fraction of the cost invested in it by the time it is completed. Worse still, it is leaving itself exposed to being made even more worthless by it's inferiority compared to other technologies that can overbuild it, rendering it more a liability than an asset, and a complete and utter waste of AUS$B that will destroy the professional reputations of many of those that openly supported it or blindly accepted it as the best solution, when reality was not only staring them in the face, but being discussed and dismissed day in day out for years around the world by 1000's of technical experts.
Telstra have raised the issue by claiming to be $3B short on payments from NBN Co...only one reason for that....poor performance due to lack of build
In support of my statement ...from NBN Cannington thread
I have tried to quote a portion of this however apparently I am quoting too much...for whatever reason no attempt to lessen it works
Whose gift?
Obviously timed to election cycle perfection.
Communications Minister Mitch Fifield had reason to celebrate on Tuesday when a relatively low-key release from the competition regulator included positive independent endorsement of the government's NBN strategy.
This was a political gift that is likely to overshadow the imminent release of Labor's broadband policy which many believe will involve a return to the party's gold-plated "all fibre network".
This was a political gift that is likely to overshadow the imminent release of Labor's broadband policy which many believe will involve a return to the party's gold-plated "all fibre network".
On the attack before the policy even comes out....what do they know?
Bring it on. The more consultants reports released the more focus on the NBN/MTM.
http://www.computerworld.com
positive independent endorsement of the government's NBN strategy.
Piss weak endorsement from a consultancy hired to provide a specific conclusion.
Hardly independent, especially given the constraints upon the study.
Also not commissioned by the ACCC as I understand it, despite the AFRs implication, it formed part of NBNCo's request for variation.
Good to see quality journalism in action, shame it's so rare at the moment as this certainly isn't.
Piss weak endorsement from a consultancy hired to provide a specific conclusion.
The fact that they could hardly find anything not to endorse is a giveaway.
last vestiges of copper is a scary thought..
my question is how many pairs and what is the speed rated distance past 100 meters,,
Good to see quality journalism in action, shame it's so rare at the moment as this certainly isn't.
For a Business oriented publication, that article has a distinct lack of Business Analysis content. It's highly political. Even Delimiter commenters can come up with more worthwhile comments in a sentence that the AFR headline clearly designed to magnify the likely intent of the whole article in appearing to endorse the nbn strategy. When the report is clearly limited in scope to the design and assumes that states the strategy that is projected in the SOE is set in concrete and is not something that the report is reviewing for it being a prudent and efficient strategy.
The headline is so misleading as to appear to endorse the nbn strategy. Shame Fairfax shame.
�prudent and efficient�
When looking at the next four or five years and no further.
Add another 4 years and it looks very different. Add 10 years and MTMco should be put down.
I have tried to quote a portion of this however apparently I am quoting too much...for whatever reason no attempt to lessen it works
"After a few calls trying to get a clear answer I was advised there is a short fault within the copper preventing me from getting sync and the job is now being assigned to the copper workflow team for assessment before it gets escalated to the copper repair team."
A bloody nbn� copper workflow team and a nbn� copper repair team. The MTM is so flapping sad it's not funny.
A bloody nbn� copper workflow team and a nbn� copper repair team. The MTM is so flapping sad it's not funny.
Talking about funny,
Q: How many teams does it take to fix some faulty copper?
A: None if you just get offered or left with no choice but to use Satellite Broadband +/or mobile voice/data instead.
In support of my statement ...from NBN Cannington thread
whrl.pl/ReDnf1
I have tried to quote a portion of this however apparently I am quoting too much...for whatever reason no attempt to lessen it works
This is appearing to be common around the country. There are significant parts of the St Mary's build in South Australia having the same issue. Its RFS. RSP's are assigning install dates, the dates come and go and are rebooked based on the shortfall.
The RFS numbers are seriously cooked.
The RFS numbers are seriously cooked.
And as we saw today, there is a concerted effort to conceal them from the public underway.
Bring it on. The more consultants reports released the more focus on the NBN/MTM.
http://www.computerworld.co
From your link
When preparing the analysis, the terms of reference given to Analysys Mason meant that it didn�t assess whether the switch from an FTTP-only model to the MTM model was a wise decision.
If NBN really wants to recoup its costs, why not simply add say a $10 per month infrastructure charge to everyones plans.
900,000 current users x $10 per month = $9 million dollars recovered in just 1 month
If NBN really wants to recoup its costs, why not simply add say a $10 per month infrastructure charge to everyones plans.
900,000 current users x $10 per month = $9 million dollars recovered in just 1 month
With the substandard service they are providing i really doubt it. People would be extremely pissed and they would try to go to lower tier plans hence the money growth would not really get any better, infact could even get worse. Except for the fact they wanted this to happen to please their bosses probably means they win either way.
God damn politicial ideologies.
EDIT: Completely forgot that they also aren't responsible for pricing like xoxide0 said.
If NBN really wants to recoup its costs, why not simply add say a $10 per month infrastructure charge to everyones plans.
NBN is the wholesaler who owns the network. They don't sell plans.
They make their money by selling access/bandwidth to retail service providers.
They don't sell plans.
no but they could charge line rental like telstra wholesale
no but they could charge line rental like telstra wholesale
How can they charge line rental when they don't sell lines.
FTTN
Why hasn't anybody thought of that. You should definitely write to your local MP and tell them your idea for saving the NBN.
poor attempt at sarcasm
MT � Hitler
NBN � German Generals � "Following orders"
Don't know who I dislike the most.
MT � Mr Broadband, Mr Copper, Mr Harbourside Mansion, Mr Virtually Invented the Internet.
Better known as FIZZA
That's who you should dislike the most.
no but they could charge line rental like telstra wholesale
Bundling data and voice has the same effect.
Making your post relevant to NBN and on topic...there is so much policy failure to see with FTTN MTM...twitter or no twitter...
Zealot is worried very very worried by the looks of it.
With the refusal of NBN Co or it's board or Shareholders to demand the removal of it's Executive General Manager Corporate Affairs for what appears to be clear and repeated breaches of the NBN Co Code of Conduct and Social Media Policy in her twitter posts, when discussing the Federal Coalition NBN/MTM policy and plans, are we seeing something bigger at play here when it comes to the IPA and their repeated calls for Free Speech and the below calls by the IPA's Executive Director John Roskam for public opinion and not the law courts to decide the rights of free speech (and the right to be a bigot)?
Is it possible that Karina is being used as a Proxy in the section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act "wars"?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
Noting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roskam
He has run for Liberal Party preselection � and missed out � "several times".
He has also held positions as Chief of Staff to Dr David Kemp, the Federal Minister for Employment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs, as Senior Advisor to Don Hayward, Victorian Minister for Education in the first Kennett Government
http://www.aijac.org.au/news/article/head-to-head-1
11. What steps would your government take to improve racial hatred laws and improve legal protections against racial hatred? In your view does section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act merit amendment or improvement?
COALITION
The Coalition Government will not be supporting any changes to section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act at this time.
The Coalition recognises the diverse range of community views on section 18C. We are committed to act in a manner which promotes social cohesion, not disunity.
The Coalition believes in an Australia where everyone is free to speak their mind, in which rights are accompanied by responsibilities, in which there is absolutely no place for racism.
The Coalition strongly condemns those who attempt to diminish our freedoms in Australia and incite violence and hatred within our community.
Only At this time. Inferring they will likely have another go at changing 18C in the future
The irony is that I would assume that Karina as the ?Executive General Manager Corporate Affairs at nbn Australia probably holds that position or equivalent level.
http://www.afr.com/leadershi
defamation lawyer Justin Quill, who has acted for News Corp columnist Andrew Bolt among others.
Institute of Public Affairs executive director John Roskam said the increasing offence taken by people on social media and the rise of defamation cases threatened the free speech of independent brokers, the media and even business.
"Is every broker assessment, Facebook comment, and social media post to be subject to what the lawyers think. It would be sad if the faux outrage that dominates the political landscape is now to become de rigueur in commercial relationships. Public opinion should decide these controversies � not the law courts," he said.
Mr Quill said simply adding the caveat "these views are my own" to your Twitter account � which Mr Edward's does not have � is not a shield because the court would look to a range of factors, such as the fact Mr Edwards is head of corporate communications, tweeting about the ANZ's views and the CEO Shayne Elliott has "liked" the tweet.
Is it possible that Karina is being used as a Proxy in the section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act "wars"?
Anything is possible with this lot really.
Did she block you after you replied to her on Twitter
I'm not sure, I only noticed it after the tweet.
So our friendly neighbours over in New Zealand have signed up with Nokia to start adding GPON to their FTTH rollout.
'Stralia 25mbps by 20something
Q: How many teams does it take to fix some faulty copper?
My mum has been without phone and internet at home for ~10 months now. She got her 7th Telstra tech out last Saturday. This guy, whilst not able to fix anything, was able to shed some light on the real issue.
He was on site for ~3hrs. 45min was checking the house wiring (which is fine as I personally ran Cat 6a throughout the house just over a year ago, from the freshly installed central splitter). As he was about to leave mum suggested he check the lines up the street as some neighbours have been having troubles as well.
2hrs 15min later he came back and had this to say:
"Sorry but there's nothing I can do about it. I can see where the copper has been spliced and re-spliced, to try and fix the problems. But the copper lines have completely degraded, the only way to fix it is run fresh lines. Don't expect Telstra to do that."
Her house is finally back on the NBN map, and an RSP she rang said according to their data that street is slated for FTTN (even though they are literally 500m from 2 greenfield estates with FTTP). Good luck to NBN trying to get FTTN working there.
'Stralia 25mbps by 20something
But as our Dear Leader has said � " We are flinging wide the doors of opportunity ".
"Sorry but there's nothing I can do about it. I can see where the copper has been spliced and re-spliced, to try and fix the problems. But the copper lines have completely degraded, the only way to fix it is run fresh lines. Don't expect Telstra to do that."
Her house is finally back on the NBN map, and an RSP she rang said according to their data that street is slated for FTTN (even though they are literally 500m from 2 greenfield estates with FTTP). Good luck to NBN trying to get FTTN working there.
See far below for what the NBNCo revised SAU proposal has in store for lines requiring remediation. Which for Malpractis's Mum's street situation, put's NBN Co in the position of having to explain whether, when, and how long it is going to take to replace the copper.
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
copper was not being used to replace degraded Telstra copper, rather was being used to connect Telstra�s distribution pillars to NBN nodes.
So unless Telstra is going to be replacing the degraded Telstra copper (as opposed to the spare copper NBNCo purchased), so that NBNCo can claim that NBNCo is not replacing the degraded copper, is NBN Co going to just give up on the Copper in the street's like those of Malpractis mother?
Or is NBN Co going to replace the copper with Fibre, HFC, or not replace the degraded copper at all, and have the street go onto Fixed Wireless, Satellite, or just leave them with Non NBN Co Mobile Broadband, or possibly a Commercial point to point wireless solution?
1A.4.5 Remediation
If the Line rate at the UNI used to serve a Premises located in the footprint of the NBN Co FTTB Network or NBN Co FTTN Network is not capable of achieving the PIR Objective then:
NBN Co may conduct Remediation in respect of the Premises; and until Remediation for the Premises is completed, the downlink Line rate and uplink Line rate at the UNI used to serve the Premises may be significantly less than the downlink PIR and uplink PIR of the bandwidth profile ordered by the Access Seeker in respect of the Premises.
"We consider the rollout plans to be commercially sensitive, we don't want to have to publish them any more" � nbn
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
2hrs 15min later he came back and had this to say:
"Sorry but there's nothing I can do about it. I can see where the copper has been spliced and re-spliced, to try and fix the problems. But the copper lines have completely degraded, the only way to fix it is run fresh lines. Don't expect Telstra to do that."
Her house is finally back on the NBN map, and an RSP she rang said according to their data that street is slated for FTTN (even though they are literally 500m from 2 greenfield estates with FTTP). Good luck to NBN trying to get FTTN working there.
Sounds like a similar situation to my brother's area. He has had nothing but trouble with his phone & ADSL due to the poor condition of the copper. According to the NBN maps his area (slated for FTTN) went into build preparation status towards the end of last year, and according to the Telstra Wholesale sheet it won't be ready for service until September 2017! That doesn't make any sense to me at all unless they are planning to either completely replace the copper, or switch to FTTP.
Regardless, in both of these situations both areas should be switched to a full FTTP rollout. It makes no sense at all to replace the copper, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did with Mr copper still running things.
My mum has been without phone and internet at home for ~10 months now. She got her 7th Telstra tech out last Saturday
Unfortunately, as things stand, Telstra are reluctant to do anything to rectify copper as they will have to pay for it. Much better to wait until FTTN is deployed because they they will be paid to fix it!
1A.4.5 Remediation
If the Line rate at the UNI used to serve a Premises located in the footprint of the NBN Co FTTB Network or NBN Co FTTN Network is not capable of achieving the PIR Objective then:
NBN Co may conduct Remediation in respect of the Premises; and until Remediation for the Premises is completed, the downlink Line rate and uplink Line rate at the UNI used to serve the Premises may be significantly less than the downlink PIR and uplink PIR of the bandwidth profile ordered by the Access Seeker in respect of the Premises.
shakes head.
Access Seeker = the RSP? If so they RSP is bring charged full cvc and avc rates even if it cannot be delivered. There is no incentive to fix teh lines by nbn� as they are still getting paid full rate
Can you imagine the uproar if Colesworthdi put a sign on their milk fridge saying
"we are sorry, but our milk suppliers equipment is faulty and not delivering the required amount of milk into the containers, and until it is fixed which should be in a month we have had to instigate an emergency plan.
As we are being charged for "full measure" on every container we have no option but to charge you full price even if your 1 litre container only has 25 ml of milk in it. To avoid fights, a staff member will pick the container for you and you must pay for it before it is handed to you"
That in effect is exactly what nbn� are proposing, in some regards it is worse as they are giving no assurance that the low CIR will actually be fixed
Unfortunately, as things stand, Telstra are reluctant to do anything to rectify copper as they will have to pay for it. Much better to wait until FTTN is deployed because they they will be paid to fix it!
more like "they MAY be paid to fix it" there is no incentive for nbn� to fix a line if it can sync even it 1/0.0001 Mbps as they still get paid full avc and cvc for that connection at the purchased rate
"We consider the rollout plans are commercially sensitive, we don't want to have to publish them any more" � nbn
Personally politically embarrassing for the prime minister is not the same as being commercially sensitive.
more like "they MAY be paid to fix it" there is no incentive for nbn� to fix a line if it can sync even it 1/0.0001 Mbps
And as far as I am aware there is no mechanism to force nbnco to fix a line if they decide not to do so.
(Happy to be corrected on that, but I'd like linked evidence)
That in effect is exactly what nbn� are proposing, in some regards it is worse as they are giving no assurance that the low CIR will actually be fixed
Note the assurances that NBN Co provides in it's Supporting Submission to the ACCC � Variation to the NBN Co Special Access Undertaking 27 May 2016. Assurances that raises the possibility that to minimise the number of premise subject to remediation, NBNCo's will risk manage this by taking the easy option for themselves and not even attempt to remediate.
80. In this context, nbn notes that it has aligned interests with access seekers in minimising the number of Premises subject to Remediation and the amount of time taken to complete the necessary actions.
That in effect is exactly what nbn� are proposing, in some regards it is worse as they are giving no assurance that the low CIR will actually be fixed
Sorry to pick this bit out but ... what CIR? All I've seen are PIRs for AVCs. Has the NBNCo specified CIRs as well and if so what are they? I'm just interested to know.
Sorry to pick this bit out but ... what CIR? All I've seen are PIRs for AVCs. Has the NBNCo specified CIRs as well and if so what are they? I'm just interested to know
I think D&C made a typo and got his CIR mixed up with his PIR.
My mum has been without phone and internet at home for ~10 months now.
Why is it that electricity can be restored within a few hours of an outage, but Telstra can get away with not fixing phone lines for months ? Is the nbn/mtm going to have stricter requirements ?
Why is it that electricity can be restored within a few hours of an outage, but Telstra can get away with not fixing phone lines for months ?
Legally they can. The Universal Service Obligation agreement really has quite a few loopholes that do allow Telstra to get away with this.
. beaten by Rocky :)
I think D&C made a typo and got his CIR mixed up with his PIR.
That's a shame. There must be a CIR below which the NBNCo is forced to acknowledge a fault and fix it. I've been looking for it for years. I hoped D&C had found it.
This is going to be a fun read from Mark Gregory today.
To replace FTTN with FTTdp, a high density implementation of FTTdp, there would be a need to remove the FTTN systems completely and to rollout fibre from the nodes to within no more than 80 metres from premises, which for most premises means to the telephone pits found in the street.
The big question is whether Labor is confident enough to convince the public that spending a little bit extra in the short-term is well worth the effort.
To replace the Federal Coalition with the current Federal Oppositions, and a less duncety implementation of FTTX, there would be a need to remove the FTTX dunces completely from further damaging the nation, or causing such mistrust in the political system. Best to roll the dunces and the nodes away, to no less than 1000km from all Australian premises (e.g Nauru), which for most premises and the majority of Australians, means to the offshore rubbish tip for recycling, and as a deterrent to anyone thinking of trying anything like this ever again, in using Australia's digital and economic future as a plaything to get what they selfishly want.
I think D&C made a typo and got his CIR mixed up with his PIR.
yeah, I guess the brain started typing CIC, it has become so ingrained in anything MTM/nbn�
To replace FTTN with FTTdp, a high density implementation of FTTdp, there would be a need to remove the FTTN systems completely
Well we pretty much already knew there was no chance of upgrading FTTN to FTTP without ripping it all out.
Basically any of us in FTTN areas that are either completed or nearing completion are left with two options. Fork out thousands of dollars for our own FTTP connection or sell up and move. :(
To replace FTTN with FTTdp, a high density implementation of FTTdp, there would be a need to remove the FTTN systems completely
Finally we have proof that the "fttn can be easily upgraded" is a lie!
The headline is so misleading as to appear to endorse the nbn strategy. Shame Fairfax shame.
Is it any wonder that Fairfax newspapers are in such financial strife...who'd buy such rubbish to read partisan articles such as this. Rather than sack a multitude of journos to 'fix' the bottom line a well publicised and targetted weeding out of pathetic journalism and editorial ineptitude would bring readers..paying customers ....back.
Anyone else noticed a shift in Fairfax editorial discretion to the right since the NBN Raid...? Might be a reason they didn't get raided as well after printing more balanced articles....
Could have been an NBN discussion on-topic (maybe still one day for those lucky FTTH)
http://bbpmag.com/wordp
Long story short, new PON equipment �th the size of the original equipment (fits in 1RU standard chassis).
I'm not sure, I only noticed it after the tweet.
Probably why Twitter is going backwards...smart arses make wild tweets and, exerting their power, block those that are of contrary view to make it look like only favorable response come through. ...fairly meaningless ultimately..
What an embarrassing article. The analysis was only to determine whether the MTM is fit for implementing the government's constrained SoE. Indeed, the analysis is almost at pains NOT make a comparison with a FTTP network.
Love the link "independent" when it was commissioned by NBN
But that attack does not sit well with the views of the independent experts, the same independent experts relied upon by the NBN when the strategy was FTTP.
As once was the FTTP a thumbs up by the "independent" analysis
Trouble over in in the Campbelltown NSW NBN thread with 2 posters in the last few hours reporting loss of their copper phone and ADSL based internet services during the process of ordering and getting an NBN FTTN service.
whrl.pl/ReDo3a
now in the second month of Telstra pointing at NBN pointing at Telstra. Bottom line, the switch to NBN left them with no DSL connection at all and so far there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
whrl.pl/ReDpm3
Up until last night, they still had a phone and ADSL connection, but around 8PM they lost both phone and internet � called Telstra today only to be told that the connection was active on the 17th and they have no record of any issues (despite a case manager being assigned previously), so they have disconnected the phone line.
https://www.crikey.com.au/20
One of the defences NBN has used in arguing why leaked documents from the company are bad and the AFP should be allowed to raid Labor HQ is that the company is very transparent and publishes so much information on the state of the rollout. Not for much longer. The ACCC has released a change in NBN�s special access undertaking � the rules that govern the NBN rollout � that is supposed to allow it to roll out Turnbull�s �multi-technology mix� version, but also reduces the number of times the company will be required to report to the public.
NBN has justified this by using its long-running excuse for hiding information that is deemed �commercial-in-confidence�. Perhaps the plans will be the next ones to be leaked?
With nbn rollout plans now deemed to be CiC, how the flap is anyone looking to buy property meant to make informed decisions about the broadband infrastructure until the real NBN has been mostly rolled out in areas they are needing to buy in?
What odds on LNP making an announcement in response to Labor NBN Policy based on FTTdp and supported by yesterday's ACCC NBN SAU article � we are being primed IMO. Interesting Mark Gregory is probably being used as a wedge here as well.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
NBN Co�s adoption of a centralised GPON architecture is both efficient and prudent, as it
represents the best choice of architecture from a long-term cost-management perspective and
from a network scalability and flexibility perspective.
They are both, therefore, considered to be future-proof technologies. In terms of
deployment, GPON is currently the FTTP technology of choice for large operators in a number of
countries for offering ultra-fast broadband services to the residential segment
2012 FTTP report by the same company
2012 FTTP report by the same company
At least that 2012 report was not signed off on April 1.
sadly $10 + $30-35 in admin fees = $36,000,000 � 40,500,000. this would be barely a � of the country let alone 1/3 of 1 states or territories population, overlay sat maps for current sat tv based service with current service maps with he sat internet maps and you will see the true impliance of implication of a sat based internet service and it will more the 100,000 user prognosis back in the 1993/4 report later refuted by 2003/4 report into short term internet and long term internet solutions for people in the country and some parts of suburbia where the copper line length is to great to supply an adsl service..
and looking at the top hat deployment of the last 15-20 years this is nothing but the stop gap of extending the copper footprint, where fttp has been a base requirement install for the last 10 or so years, and the longer it is left the more it will cost in install, as the cost of copper replacement with more copper every 18-30 month's doesn't bode well for anyone..
install costs tabled in a report to parliament on install vs on the ground costs of install is always 2 different figures..
as for political games we are now in protection mode for min of 6 months since the election has been called..
Hi erfman, The reason I wrote this article was because Morrow told the Senate that no other company / country was doing FTTdp and NBN Co was leading the world in looking to rollout FTTdp. In fact, NBN Co is not leading the world and is trialling several different stand alone systems suitable for low density FTTdp. So in effect the FTTdp is of little or no consequence to the NBN debate as it is not scalable and the only benefit is the fibre running to the 300,000 premises identified to be in the low density rollout. The timing of the article with the SAU and Labor's possible options is coincidental.
Lol..
We say anything for money..
It's like they did a CTRL+F = FTTP
Replace with = FTTN
Charge NBN $3m
Lol..
We say anything for money..
Almost the same wording isn't it? Consultants creaming again...just change a word or two....
The timing of the article with the SAU and Labor's possible options is coincidental
Noted. However, I still expect your (good) article will be utilised (parts thereof) to support discussion anti FTTP when Labor announces its policy, which may well reference utilisation of FTTdp in particular circumstances....nothing new in that, though.
The facts don't seem to play an important part anymore....
Almost the same wording isn't it?
If both Rudd/Controy/Australia's and Turnbull/Abbott/Foxtel's NBN strategies got the prudent and efficient thumbs up from the exact same "independent experts", remind me again why team Abbott/Turnbull changed the NBN into the MTM and pretty much dumped the FTTP rollout?
2012 FTTP report by the same company
If you want a efficient and prudent document that will tell you what you want to see. Give Analysys Mason a call. We never fail to please. Especially if you splash a little extra cash. Don't wait. You know it makes sense.
Three word slogan � Efficient and Prudent.
Analysis Paralysis.
If you want a efficient and prudent document that will tell you what you want to see.
They have prefilled docs ready to go..
They have prefilled docs ready to go..
I hope NBN Co got a hefty discount from Analysys Mason for the 2016 report.
To anyone getting despondent that the Federal Coalition is most likely going to hold on at the 2 July Federal Election to continue with their current NBN/MTM policy for a while longer, this post might cheer you up a bit.
Particularly when drawing parallels with the NBN Co revised SAU "independent" consultants reports efficient and prudent endorsements for NBN Co. With talk of a backlash against the whole Liberal Party. It's a matter of trust. 4 and a half weeks to go.
In a potentially explosive development for the Baird Government, the Land and Environment Court has ordered it to provide documents about the role KPMG played in implementing the council amalgamation agenda.
Counsel for Strathfield Tim Robertson SC said documents delivered on Sunday revealed KPMG had been "intimately involved in the formulation of proposals and the report had been done in order to do the government's bidding."
"The lack of independence of KPMG has always been a central part of our case,"
The latest developments are politically damaging
evidence that it had acted to achieve a foregone conclusion and misled communities
There will be a backlash against the whole LIberal Party, not just the Baird government because this is a breach of trust. I come from a conservative place � Hunters Hill. I have never seen anger like this in conservative places."
It is sad that a cost benefit analysis over 10 years or so has not been produced ahead of the election comparing cost of maintaining copper in FTTN vs FTTdP vs FTTP. I know you might be able to find it if you dig deep but it should be out there. Shame Mark Gregory did not go down this path in his article.
There will be a backlash against the whole LIberal Party, not just the Baird government because this is a breach of trust. I come from a conservative place � Hunters Hill. I have never seen anger like this in conservative places."
Phg, it pales into insignificance when compared to Labor politicians stealing tens of millions off the public. There will be no backlash at all. Everyone wants to see Mehager and the like go down. i don't see the relevance to this thread
Phg, it pales into insignificance when compared to Labor politicians stealing tens of millions off the public. There will be no backlash at all.
pardon, where is your evidence to support your claim.
First I have heard of it
So in effect the FTTdp is of little or no consequence to the NBN debate as it is not scalable and the only benefit is the fibre running to the 300,000 premises identified to be in the low density rollout. The timing of the article with the SAU and Labor's possible options is coincidental.
Firstly, a fantastic layman's explanation of FTTdp. So good I'll repeat it
FTTdp falls between the two approaches by getting the fibre to within no more than 80 metres from premises and the final connection into premises uses the existing copper telephone wires. Switch the copper with fibre and you effectively turn the FTTdp into FTTP. FTTdp that uses GPON (Gigabit Passive Optical Network) as the technology on the fibre can operate over distances of up to 20 kilometres making it similar to FTTP.
But ....
Are we sure the 300,000 is for the "low density" rollout?
The NBN consists of three zones � high, medium and low density. Currently premises in the high density areas will be connected to the NBN using either FTTP, FTTN or HFC. In the medium density areas NBN Co is using fixed wireless to connect premises to the NBN. In low density areas satellite
I was under the impression the 300,000 premises came from the Strategic Review (p18): FTTdp to complement the FTTN rollout in long-loop areas towards the end of the build and was an estimate of the number of premises in the FTTN footprint not going to get 25mbps. (I can't find the 300k premises reference in there now, bugger, but I recall it's in there somewhere). Or is it assumed those 300k properties are like DrD and have fallen out of the fixed line (and fixed wireless) footprint and onto Sat? Perhaps correctly, perhaps not, the impression I had is the SR assumed standard VDSL2, but those 300k were going to be dealt with by the magic of vectoring.
and have commenced a trial using FTTdp and DPUs with one to four ports
Is this true? Is the one test user trialing a 4 port ONT?
comparing cost of maintaining copper in FTTN vs FTTdP vs FTTP.
There is no CBA , that's why..
and Telstra has never released a good figure on how much they spent on maintaining the copper network.. If they even know
It's like they did a CTRL+F = FTTP
Replace with = FTTN
Charge NBN $3m
Another of the cost savings of FTTN. You don't just reuse the copper, you reuse the reports justifying it as well. /s
https://delimiter.com.au/201
�Fanbois�: NBN Co mocks critics after cancelling quarterly update
�With changes to the 3-year construction plan and the monthly RFS rollout plan, the information in the 1-year construction plan has become redundant,� the NBN company noted, adding that some of the information contained in its plans were also commercially sensitive.
A number of commentators noted the changes yesterday as the new SAU was published.
In response, the NBN company�s executive general manager of corporate affairs, Karina Keisler, mocked critics of the company.
�With FULL rollout soon in view & annual updates provided, the fanbois are calling for quarterly updates. Hell, why not weekly?! Daily?� the executive posted on Twitter.
opinion/analysis
It�s quite hard to believe that the management of the NBN company continues to allow Keisler to make these kind of vitriolic comments in public.
That should be a serious enough matter to give Keisler and her colleagues pause. It�s time for them to re-evaluate their communications strategy. Because the current approach is alienating journalists, the Opposition, and NBN customers alike. That�s precisely the opposite of what a corporate affairs function is supposed to achieve.
https://delimiter.com.au/20
that picture
I bet she says " No Fibre Hangers EVER !!! ".
Hi Tandem, NBN Co have indicated they will use FTTdp for areas that are not going to get fixed wireless (not enough premises in the area to justify a tower) and are relatively close to nodes (say 1-2 km). Possibly there are other scenarios but I'm not aware of them. Remember that the premises can be up to 20 km from nodes where there will be a termination for the FTTdp fibre but the cost of rolling fibre out to anywhere near 20km would be too high for FTTdp to be an option given NBN Co's requirement to use the cheapest technology.
NBN Co have indicated they will use FTTdp for areas that are not going to get fixed wireless
Where? They have discussed it, but nowhere is there policy to use it. And as far as we know, its only been trialled with 1 user.
it is my understanding that a functional FTTdp is currently just a concept � unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll". I would think that NBN plans to use it are very presumptive and more "pie in the sky".
I recall reading somewhere that:
1) nbnco was asked if they would deploy HFC prior to 30th June and they answered 'no'.
2) there are 'get out of HFC' clauses if nbnco have not deployed the technolgy
3) the election is on the 2nd July
That leaves 1st July as the only date when nbnco can release HFC, and force Labor into using HFC in their plan.
Anyone recall anything like this or am I pulling out of the proverbial?
That leaves 1st July as the only date when nbnco can release HFC, and force Labor into using HFC in their plan.
The HFC product launch is scheduled for 30th June � the question was raised whether that product launch would trigger the Telstra "It's your problem now, sucker!" clause which nbn� claimed it wouldn't. Whether that's because no customers would actually be connected on that date or whether only Optus areas will accept orders from that date or soon after I don't know.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
that picture
Very disappointed with Renai's comment ...
"I personally like Keisler. I�ve known her for a long time � dating back to her days at Vodafone � and I believe she is a consummate public affairs professional."
.... but not surprised that Renai has said this. His track record demonstrates that he seems to value staying in the good books of his network more than calling a spade a spade for his readers.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
I notice that when posters talk about Labor's NBN policy (I'm looking at you Kingee and GMZT) that the usual response is along the lines of "Labor has not released their NBN policy."
But Renai says that "I think it�s pretty clear at this point what Labor are going to announce as their NBN policy for the election."
Oh well if that's what Renai thinks as our expert NBN/MTM blogger journalist (sorry I was channelling Karina for a moment there) then I suppose Kingee and GMZT) and the rest of us can take it as gospel that this is Labor's NBN policy.
and have commenced a trial using FTTdp and DPUs with one to four ports
Is this true? Is the one test user trialing a 4 port ONT?
Do you mean NTD? I think you will find the DPUs with one to four ports are the hardware mounted in the pits.
I bet she says " No Fibre Hangers EVER !!! ".
The only fibre you get is the stuff coming out of her backside. Oh wait, we are already getting that. Its called the FTTN.
where is the video for the announcement ?
unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll". I would think that NBN plans to use it are very presumptive and more "pie in the sky".
You mean like D3.1 the saviour of HFC?
The HFC product launch is scheduled for 30th June � the question was raised whether that product launch would trigger the Telstra
Only areas I am aware which will NBN HFC RFS end of June are Optus HFC areas? If so this would not yet trigger the Telstra HFC takeover until the first Telstra NBN HFC area goes live (as early as July/August somewhere in SA or WA).
It's like they did a CTRL+F = FTTP
Replace with = FTTN
Don't forget also
CTRL+F = efficient and prudent
Replace with = prudent and efficient
Now it sounds like a completely different report!
"We consider the rollout plans to be commercially sensitive, we don't want to have to publish them any more" � nbn
That is pathetic. If this is gonna be more of their excuses in the future i will NEVER even think about voting a conservative party in my future thats for bloody sure. Corrupt idiots the lot of them. If its publicly funded there should be no god damn shadows covering the information. How did these idiots even get in? The moeny managers excuse? Goes to check national debt and see its higher by 20billion. Well so much for that excuse.
Karina Keisler should be fired. No ifs no buts she should be outright sacked. Any other workplace this would be an immediate sacking but not the NBN co. The failure of Australia. We are going to be mocked for generations to come and we will all suffer for it while 100 people laugh their way to retirement not caring about the responsiblity they should have had.
oh the contradiction...
even with fttdp installed in the cabinet.. they still need UPGRADE the cable to the premises though it doesn't guarantee a lifespan of 5 years in copper servicing the premises with th amount of buildings being built within my suburb, the plan of deploying fttn is plain idiotic given the d/a's didn't have the capacity to support basic residential telephone service nevermind adsl..
which could not support vdsl 4-5 years ago and still couldn't today..
i see fttn as a political stunt of ignorance rather planning for foreword thinking..
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Give it a rest. There are better things to do rather than get worked up over a personal Twitter account
Good to see GMZ is walking the talk today (only 4 hours to go).
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Ahh the good old days!
http://spacenews.com/nbn-of-
2nd satellite required
Wait no we don't need any said the master of the universe
Hi quadfan, it is important to dispel this myth. FTTdp is being rolled out today and it is available for high, medium and low density rollouts. The key here is that NBN Co's supplier does not appear to provide, Huawei does but is banned, so NBN Co is seeking alternatives from tiny companies in the USA.
... so NBN Co is seeking alternatives from tiny companies in the USA.
That sounds like it has risks.
FTTdp is being rolled out today and it is available for high, medium and low density rollouts. The key here is that NBN Co's supplier does not appear to provide, Huawei does but is banned, so NBN Co is seeking alternatives from tiny companies in the USA
Why are NBN Co locked to one supplier?
10 years from now some of the low lying fruit will be brought before a judge to answer questions about the debacle, but sadly Mr Fizza and Zigfreid will be retired somewhere in the good ol US of A living off tax-free Cayman dollars. There is no justice in this world: In a westernized modern economy, if you're rich you get to live a happy, carefree life. If you're poor you get to suffer depression and poison your body trying to achieve a less miserable state of mind. Anyway, enough of the rant.
Fauxband was supposed to be available in my area (Stirling WA) but it's June and still no indication of when the switch will be flicked. I've seen a lot of Telstra workers in the Karrinyup area, obviously preparing the network so they can cherry-puck the most profitable streets/zones. Like i've said previously, I don't expect anything until late in the year.
it is my understanding that a functional FTTdp is currently just a concept � unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll".
MG is right, there are FTTTdp products that are more than Vapourware. Even Alcatel Lucent have one: https://www.youtube.com/watch
I'm not aware of any 4 port ONT/NTD/DPU/Micronodes in commercial production (please feel free to correct me if/where I'm wrong here). IIRC there was a briefing given to the Senate of the products nbn� were trialing, and that included a slide of some small form factor reverse powered ONTs , but AFAIK they were all single port.
NBN Co have indicated they will use FTTdp for areas that are not going to get fixed wireless (not enough premises in the area to justify a tower) and are relatively close to nodes (say 1-2 km)
I would also like to know when and where this indication was given: Senate Estimates? I don't know for sure, but I think nbn� have been describing their 48port micronode deployments as FTTdp, when they are really FTTN for areas of sufficiently low density that they have less than 50 users within 1.2km of the node site, and who would otherwise be outside the FTTN footprint. If this is the case then it's a touch disingenuous to describe it as FTTdp.
Hi Tandem, you've identified how FTTdp can mean many things and generally NBN Co are not rolling out FTTdp variants that most would anticipate. Calling FTTN micronodes FTTdp is ridiculous � it is FTTN. FTTdp is generally associated with DPU in pits or on polls outside homes and G.Fast or some other technology into the home � e.g. FTTP. If VDSL2/vectoring is to be used then there is no reasonable requirement to get the fibre to the pit (or poll) and this is not what NBN Co is doing. I've complained about the creative use of the term by NBN Co but they've insisted that they can call what they're doing FTTdp. And there is a reference somewhere to the 1-2km using FTTdp in an article or possibly one of the leaked documents about the 1-4 port DPUs under investigation.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Give it a rest. There are better things to do rather than get worked up over a personal Twitter account
Be interesting to know the professional conduct requirements for the person of such stature in NBN? Perhaps she is precluded from having personal tweets or perhaps the policy states that she must clearly state that such tweets are not the view of NBN? Either way, there are many who would agree that her conduct is unbecoming of the office which she holds.
Be interesting to know the professional conduct requirements for the person of such stature in NBN?
See my extensive post linking into and analysing the Official NBN Code of Conduct and Social Media Policy the other morning.
whrl.pl/ReDnFz
http://www.
http://www.nbnco.com.
That I appear to be the only human in the whole world who appears to have bothered linking these 2 public documents to this issue is rather bemusing
Even Journalists like the one that wrote the below did not bother to go looking for them or omitted to write about them for some reason.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases
I agree, but commenting on work matters does confuse the issue. She should have been more professional and not commented at all.
See my extensive post linking into and analysing the Official NBN Code of Conduct and Social Media Policy the other morning.
Well as the old saying goes " Rules are there to be broken ". It looks like Karina and the other staff at NBN treat it like sorbent at Glastonbury.
https://twitter.com/karinake
karina keisler
?@karinakeisler
Ok folks I hear you. Importantly, the SAU relates to what we share with RSPs, not public reporting. That's different #nbn
I agree, but commenting on work matters does confuse the issue. She should have been more professional and not commented at all.
If an organisation has a Social Media Policy, then it doesn't matter if it's a personal social media account. They are still accountable for their actions. Lo and behold:
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
Ultimately, it's likely up to the employer whether their employee's conduct online fits their policies. Let's face it, KK is Morrow's golden child.
There are many case studies that discuss the consequences of an employee's behaviour on social media.
EDIT: Oops, just saw the linkages above.
Whether it's a personal Twitter account or not is irrelevant.
Do you have any idea the number of court cases, law suits and arrests over material appearing on personal social media accounts ?
Perhaps you'd like to sit down with the ABC and SBS for a minute, for starters, as well as with corporations in the US and Europe...
P.S. Does this mean the "leaker" at NBN Co could and should have just posted the leaks on their personal social media accounts, and then they'd have totally avoided being sacked/arrested/avoid ramifications of any Official Secrets Act ?
You can't have it both ways.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases
whats good for the goose, appears not to be good for the gander. MT stepping in again and upholding the rights of free speach for those under his employ, as long as its in agreement with him
I agree, but commenting on work matters does confuse the issue. She should have been more professional and not commented at all.
What makes you think it is just her personal Twitter account?
It clearly appears to be a work related twitter account from the wording she has put in the intro to her twitter name Corp Affairs @ nbn. It appears to be a BYOSMA (Bring your own Social Media Account).
https://twitter.com/karinakeisler
Corp Affairs @ nbn
Even if it is considered partly her personal Twitter account. Akin to a BYOD (phone/tablet/laptop) that is used both for both work and private purposes, the NBN Co Code of Conduct and the NBN Social Media Policy, both clearly cover how you act in a private capacity in relation to your commenting on your job, upholding the company values.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
see whrl.pl/ReDnFz for my earlier thread on this
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
(selected excerpts below)
When participating in social media other than on behalf of NBN Co, your legal obligations as an employee, consultant or contractor with NBN Co remain the same as they would be in other contexts of your life, even if you believe you are participating anonymously.
Should an employee, consultant or contractor choose to participate as a private citizen in social media, they should do so without damaging the reputation of or infringing the intellectual property rights of NBN Co, its employees, contractors, consultants, customers or suppliers. NBN Co may take reasonable and lawful steps in relation to any use of social media that is not authorised or in breach of this policy.
Employees, contractors or consultants can participate in social media that is unrelated to NBN Co or the NBN as any private citizen would without needing to reference their role at NBN Co. As with any publicly visible activity, employees of NBN Co should endeavour to conduct themselves in accordance with NBN Co�s values and in a manner that will not bring NBN Co into disrepute.
be polite to all people they interact with
If you are unclear about the terms of this policy or whether your actions would breach your obligations do not publish the content and seek advice from your manager or speak to one of the Digital Communication Managers at NBN Co. It is safer for you to exercise caution as you have sole responsibility for what you post and publish online to the global community.
not disparaging NBN Co or any of its employees, clients, business partners, suppliers or other associates, or make any statement which does, or is likely to, bring NBN Co or any of these parties into disrepute or ridicule or otherwise affect their reputations
? being mindful that any published content will probably remain in the public domain for many years
? being respectful to their audience
Breach of this Policy
Failure to comply with this policy may result in NBN Co exercising its rights under a contractor/consultancy agreement or taking disciplinary action against an employee under the Managing Performance and Behaviour Policy. This action may include limitation of access to computer, email and/or the internet, and in serious cases, may result in termination of employment or your engagement with NBN Co.
Well as the old saying goes " Rules are there to be broken ". It looks like Karina and the other staff at NBN treat it like sorbent at Glastonbury.
There is a big difference between 'rules are there to be broken' and 'challenging the norm'.
Have to say that since Abbott and his 'anything goes if it means power' approach, community standards have dropped significantly with integrity, honesty and professionalism becoming dirty words almost to the point of anarchy. Trump is perfecting it.
Turnbull has clearly demonstrated that with NBN � lies, deception and extreme lengths to ensure public get no or distorted information ie. no accountability possible. That has permeated to NBN Co clearly with Morrow and KK.
Often we hear from the Turnbull's and Abbott's that indigenous communities need to get their elders to show the way to rectify the disaster happening to younger generations. Shame they don't put that to work in Australian society. The farce we have seen with NBN would simply not occur.
In a statement on Sunday, SBS managing director Michael Ebeid and director of sport Ken Shipp said the "inappropriate and disrespectful" comments had caused Mr McIntyre's "on-air position at SBS to become untenable".
"Mr McIntyre's actions have breached the SBS Code of Conduct and social media policy and as a result, SBS has taken decisive action to terminate Mr McIntyre's position at SBS, with immediate effect," the statement said.
What's makes Karina Keisler's continuing tenure at NBNCo so tenable?
?@karinakeisler
Ok folks I hear you. Importantly, the SAU relates to what we share with RSPs, not public reporting. That's different #nbn
Wow!! took how long to work out an escape route...??? That should have been an immediate response.
Wonder who kicked her butt....
Failure to comply with this policy may result in NBN Co exercising its rights under a contractor/consultancy agreement or taking disciplinary action against an employee under the Managing Performance and Behaviour Policy.
It's on Hansard that Morrow has had discussions with her about her tweeting...
Have to say that since Abbott and his 'anything goes if it means power' approach,
For anyone thinking that any NBNCo staff are being unfairly singled out in this NBN Co debate. Lest we forget this.
It's on Hansard that Morrow has had discussions with her about her tweeting...
Karina, keep up the good work.
I have your back
Bill
Bill keep up the good work.
I have your back.
Turnbull
turnbull keep up the good work
i have your back
murdoch
That I appear to be the only human in the whole world who appears to have bothered linking these 2 public documents to this issue is rather bemusing
I was very impressed that you researched and found these documents. From another person in the whole world.
Karina, keep up the good work.
I have your back
Bill
Bill keep up the good work.
I have your back.
Turnbull
turnbull keep up the good work
i have your back
murdoch
One after the other!
Classic Copper!
I will never say that.
;-)
A nice addition Murdoch.
I was very impressed that you researched and found these documents.
All it took was to type into google search engine
"NBN Code of Conduct"
"NBN Social Media Policy"
and look at the first few links presented as results.
All it took was to type into google search engine
"NBN Code of Conduct"
"NBN Social Media Policy"
and look at the first few links presented as results.
Yes it was a small thing but look how many people were better informed from that small action.
Please note that there is no sarcasm in this post, although using sarcasm is one of my tools on Whirlpool.
FTTdp is generally associated with DPU in pits or on polls outside homes and G.Fast or some other technology into the home
Mark � awesome that you're on WP! I heard your interview with Leon Compton on ABC Tas radio last week ... should really be put up on Soundcloud or made available as a mp3 so everyone can listen. If you have time, a few quick questions on FTTdP. The last run into the home is still copper afaik, and a lot of that copper is degraded (water seepage, worn by age etc.) so do we have an idea of the remediation cost? Also, I'm guessing it's a far more natural & (hopefully) easy process to replace that last bit with fibre ... is that something that could be done at any time after the distribution point is implemented & would it require any equipment changes at the customer end (ONT/NTD etc.)? Also, this is the one I'd like to see properly costed by someone � if it's possible to run everything on poles, how does the cost of FTTdp compare with FTTN, is it still marginally more expensive or could it be equivalent or even cheaper?
It's on Hansard that Morrow has had discussions with her about her tweeting...
Only had to google search "Hansard karina keisler" to find this interesting exchange between Conroy and Morrow about Keisler's tweeting.
Senator CONROY: Mr Morrow, to your knowledge do all NBN officers avoid activities that could give rise to questions about their political impartiality?
Mr Morrow : I do.
Senator CONROY: Are you aware that a senior member of your staff, Ms Karina Keisler, has been tweeting links to partisan materials?
Mr Morrow : That was brought to my attention, and I have had a discussion with her about that issue.
Senator CONROY: And the person is now aware of her obligations under the NBN code of conduct and the GBE guidelines?
Mr Morrow : I would state that there was no malintent. There was no intention to show any partiality on a political side of things; it was merely an intent of supporting the NBN Co brand. She is very well aware of that and I think will adjust some of her thinking going forward.
Senator CONROY: And if any officer, given that it has now clearly been stated on the public record, engaged in that conduct, what would be your response from this point forward?
Mr Morrow : Do a proper evaluation and take the appropriate measures with that individual.
Senator CONROY: But unfortunately it is not the first time it has happened. NBN Co officials have actually attacked members of this committee directly in newspaper articles. I have raised it with the chair previously, who undertook to do something about it, but it appears that message has not got through yet. I just want to make sure, from this point forward, there can be no misunderstanding that you would view this as a serious breach of the code of ethics and code of conduct that is up on the NBN Co website.
Mr Morrow : I can assure you none of the management team want to be in the political arena. It is our job to build out and support the NBN Co as defined by the government.
Yes it was a small thing but look how many people were better informed from that small action.
So Journo's are reasonably intelligent people up on tech stuff as a tools in trade....how come they don't take two minutes to look that up before they hit the news waves........
Only had to google search "Hansard karina keisler" to find this interesting exchange between Conroy and Morrow about Keisler's tweeting.
And this amusing exchange between Morrow and Conroy at the end of the last Senate Estimates hearing.
CHAIR: Senator Conroy, you have time for one last question, because I have one very quick one at the very end.
Senator CONROY: Yes, okay. You are all aware of the caretaker provisions?
Mr Rue : Yes.
Senator CONROY: It is probably safest if you confiscate Ms Karina Keisler's phone for the period of caretaker!
Mr Morrow : We would love to!
Senator CONROY: It is probably the safest thing you can do. I am finished.
Senator CONROY: It is probably safest if you confiscate Ms Karina Keisler's phone for the period of caretaker!
Mr Morrow : We would love to!
Morrow should be (maybe he already is...) in politics...say one thing and do the opposite.
Do the provisions apply to CEO's ?
Anyone remember that infamous table comparing the Coalition's NBN to Labor's NBN in the the Coalition's plan for Fast Broadband and an affordable NBN?
http://www.malcolmturnbu
The one that answered Disruption at user Premises? with a No for the Coalition's plan, and a yes for Labor's plan.
Here's a good example from yesterday's media of the kind of disruption at user Premises the FTTN rollout is causing.
http://www.theherald.com.au/
Opposite Lock owners Gordon and Mel Allerton, said their business had been left without fixed-line services for 50 days due to three periods of disconnection caused by NBN work.
They brandished photos of tangled, ageing copper wire protruding from the telephone connection pit in their street.
�The photographs of the pit we have got just show that fibre to the node does not work in the old areas of Newcastle,� he said.
�Every time they try to connect someone to the NBN, all six of our telephone lines get cut off.
�We have had three outages in 16 months and we do not want any more. We need a long term solution and we believe in this area it should be fibre to the premises.�
He estimated the disruptions had cost their business between $50,00 and $100,000.
He estimated the disruptions had cost their business between $50,00 and $100,000.
The cost to consumers doesn't matter. Just as long as there aren't costs to the bottom line of nbn�. Tell 'em to 'arden up!
s/
He estimated the disruptions had cost their business between $50,00 and $100,000
Should have applied for FOD
Mark � awesome that you're on WP!
You can read up on FTTdP info here.
http://telsoc.org/ajtde/2014-03-v2-n1/a26
And Mark's piece here.
http://telsoc.org/ajtde/2013-11-v1-n1/a17
Upgrading from the pit to full fibre is an unknown although Telstra do a new POTS install for $299 if you dig a trench for them. Someone else might know what fibre PON hardware costs. NG PON 2 is supposed to be even cheaper.
Nice timing to release this in the middle of the Federal election campaign
What a coincidence that the report said the MTM design was prudent and efficient.
If we were more cynical, we might recall that consultants always seem to generate reports which neatly accord with the predetermined wishes of their larger and richer clients, including governments.
After all, if a client is very pleased with the first outcome, they may be much more likely to commission a lot more lucrative work in future.
I have your back.
Bill
I have your back.
Turnbull
I have your back.
Murdoch
Absolutely classic example of the food chain in action!
it is my understanding that a functional FTTdp is currently just a concept � unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll". I would think that NBN plans to use it are very presumptive and more "pie in the sky".
BT have been using both FTTdp G.fast equipment (in trials) and VDSL equipment (in commercial service for people too far away from the cabinet) for some time. It's not a myth
What a coincidence that the report said the MTM design was prudent and efficient.
Anyone that does not accept this is all stage managed has no sense of reality. The LNP operate to no rules, no morals, no ethics...just win and stuff the consequences of lies.... Turnbull has taken Abbott's low bar to a new lower level.
They are effectively sabotaging NBN in total and this country with it.
yup lets all be cynical cynic change the bodge figures around.. and you might get the true cost fibre install, vs the fiction of fttn and the latter fttdp install which no budget exists for its install..
malcolm is setting us all up for FoD when he already knows that which ever telco runs the network is still liable to this 1st point and forcing the consumer to pay for service replacement is not on...
my guess telstra is still charging $5,000 on the install of vdsl and its tech..
add 300-600 subscribers per D/A (node) and $100k is nothing but the piss money with min of 1,500,000 per converted d/a (node)!!!!!
add the math per exchange and council area and you will see the true cost of fttn/dp
They are effectively sabotaging NBN in total and this country with it.
And Abbott has the bare face cheek to call himself Infrastructure King.
And Turnbull with his "innovation" fluff as well.
BT have been using both FTTdp G.fast equipment (in trials) and VDSL equipment (in commercial service for people too far away from the cabinet) for some time. It's not a myth
Then why isn't it being rolled out for FTTB by either NBN or TPG? Its the perfect location for it.
The OP was right, its not ready to roll.
the only thing ready to roll is the top hat replacement audit and deployment which will be passed off as fttn..
malcolm is setting us all up for FoD when he already knows that which ever telco runs the network is still liable to this 1st point and forcing the consumer to pay for service replacement is not on...
Yep � ideological tunnel vision is user pays ...big time...that's what keeps economies going. That's how you look after the nation....jobs and growth..for some 'one' anyway....
Then why isn't it being rolled out for FTTB by either NBN or TPG?
This comes back to people conflating what FTTdp is with macrocodes and the like. G.Fast in building sized nodes IIRC doesn't exist. FTTdp in its true form is into the pit, that means a 4 port device that lives in the pit, usually reverse powered from the homes it services. This isn't something that is ideal to install into buildings.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
Humphrey: "Yes, well, always dispose of the difficult bit in the title. It does less harm there than in the text."
Sir Arnold: "It's the law of inverse relevance. The less you intend to do about something, the more you have to keep talking about it."
Anyone else see 7.30 Lateline tonight? Item on PNG female allegedly raped at Manus Island Detention Centre 12 mths ago. It took ABC 6mths to get an FOI response that was extremely redacted. The reason given for page after page of blanks was ..."it might affect relations between PNG and Australia".... a bit like 'Commercial in Confidence" stance with NBN Co I'd suggest.
NBN posters would recognise that situation fairly clearly.
Would anyone with the right info, examples of redaction etc, care to forward on the NBN experience....? It would be about time they took a peek at what is going on with this country's biggest ever infrastructure project and the farce it has been turned into ... at massive unnecessary expense to this country. They might also be interested in the AFP Raid as well just to top it off.....
Unlike SIr Arnold ... The less you intend to do about something, the more you have to keep talking about it... the LNP have made the mistake of not talking about it and hiding everything they can � out of sight out of mind...until it explodes
EDIT:
meant to add that the failed FTTN rollout, as posts in FTTN threads for specific areas are demonstrating, is a fine example of the start of an explosion.
Hi Fred, there are problems with copper into homes, and the solution is to ignore this unless the 25/5 cannot be achieved as this is what has been promised as the first tier effort. Remember the 50 Mbps by 2019 is not a core promise at this point, as this was part of a combined promise that has already been ignored (25 Mbps to all by 2016).
The reality is that FTTdp is a half way house, that means you can run the fibre yourself. But this does not mean it will be part of the Labor plan and the Coalition have already indicated clearly that FTTdp for more than the 300,000 premises identified is not happening.
It has been fully costed � FTTdp in a high density rollout costs about $200 more per premises than FTTN with the skinny fibre, improvements to rollout techniques and is much cheaper OPEX than FTTN.
Check out the savings in the Chorus reports.
that manus crap is over 3 years old my guess deflecting the stink from nbn is that goal..
i'm still waiting for the reason mally cum daily was given the telecommunications portfolio in the 1st place given the conflict he had in the past, at the current present, and the undeniable future within both the local and international scene of telecommunications..
line distance can be between 100-1,000 with the average medium distance of 250-750 meters making a fttdp deployment a problem not to mention ug power lines, gas and water mains on top of existing telco cable that pass the muster for vdsl use never mind g,fast on top of that,,,
forget g.fast. vplus is better, faster and serves more people at 550m range and is 7330 compatible.
i'm still waiting for the reason mally cum daily was given the telecommunications portfolio in the 1st place given the conflict he had in the past
Abbott's poison chalice....destroy NBN (and destroy your own reputation) and/or be destroyed by the LNP party.
Looks like it is the 'and' rather than the 'or' so from that standpoint Abbott's NBN poison chalice is a win for Abbott....but Abbott is gone (thank goodness), destroyed by Turnbull in (at the time) apparently successfully destroying NBN with the mirage that nbn FTTN MTM might be a success (he sucked the party powerful in), but time has caught Turnbull out and by him not delaying FTTN disaster long enough until after an election � allowing the world to see what a failure FTTN is � Turnbull has destroyed himself it would seem........ regardless of whether he wins the election or not, legacy of FTTN MTM failure will perpetuate...
Anyone else see a parallel with Labor's disastrous political suicide effort post Rudd 2007 ...... power is everything...bugger the electorate and bugger what's good for the Australian public.....
BT have been using both FTTdp G.fast equipment (in trials) and VDSL equipment (in commercial service for people too far away from the cabinet) for some time. It's not a myth
Neither is it a myth that the following severely impact obsolete copper based services such as FTTdp, G.Fast and obsolete VDSL services!
EXT, AXT, NEXT,
FM Transmitters
Environmental noise
Water Ingress
The gauge of the copper
High Open Faults
Oxidisation
AVC/CVC Congestion in Unicast services
The quality of the copper being used from the Node to your property boundary
The copper pair line length
The state of the copper inside your premise
Impulse noise
Industrial Noise
The state of existing shielding
MBORC (service Interruptions both planned and unplanned)
Bridged Taps both internal and external
Microwave ovens
Cordless Telephones
Spurious Radiation
Non compliant CPE equipment
Type of power back off being applied online both up and down"
Non compliant Central Splitters
Time of Day
Heat
Type of applications people are using (FTTN is a shared resource with limited spectrum)
SPGS" � Small Pair Gain Systems � which were originally designed to and the LNP will love this word "Economically" overcome copper shortfalls by combining several telephone services over a single pair!!!!!!
and
Telstra's "ISS" "incompatible" services" that actually "block" VDSL signals and have to be removed from the network!
Unsurprisingly we now see Portugal for example deploying a National NG-PON2 80Gbps service which can deliver "Concurrent" 1Gbps, 10Gbps, 40Gbps etc services across the same single piece of Fibre which dispenses entirely with the mess that obsolete copper based communication services like FTTdp, and GeeWhyisn'tmyInternetWorking (G..fast) simply can't deliver!
Cheers
Neither is it a myth that the following severely impact obsolete copper based services such as FTTdp, G.Fast and obsolete VDSL services!
I think FTTP is the superior option, but I was simply stating a fact � that FTTdp exists and is in use. There's no need to reel off why FTTP is great � I think everyone knows and has heard it already
As for your shopping list, it is worth pointing out that some of those issues can just as easily affect an FTTP service. (e.g. lack of backhaul capacity or lack of capacity in the PON network, "MBORC", issues stemming from a poorly installed or degraded installation, radio/microwave inference if the end user is trying to use wifi to their devices etc), and that the drastically reduced amount of copper in the loop would reduce/eliminate some of the other issues. in BT's case, the quality of the copper from the pole to the exchange is basically irrelevant, because the FTTdp equipment is connected at the point just prior to it going into each home
Then why isn't it being rolled out for FTTB by either NBN or TPG? Its the perfect location for it.
The OP was right, its not ready to roll.
Because FTTB implies lots of end user connections so you'd basically want to install a proper full fat DSLAM in the building. FTTdp (at least in BT's world) is more like a handful of connections, less than 10, served from "micronodes"
You've got to understand the NBN isn't selling 100/40 throughput, they're selling 100/40 sync.
Fttp delivers 100/40 sync 100% of the time, unless a drastic fault occurs somewhere along the path.
FTTN has no measure as copper line distance and quality is the main factor.
Throw in a shitty copper line in addition to congestion, battery, wrong pair faults. FTTN is deficient at 1km nodes. G.fast is good for 300m, vplus for 550m. Both would require fiber extensions (fttdp/micronodes). This is on top of the FTTN construction costs. The additions would most likely equate to being higher than an all out FTTP build.
HFC 3.1 is most likely going to disappear into the nether just like thunderbolt. It will be used by some but never mainstream.
FTTP is 1.
Fttdp w/ vplus 2.
fttdp w/ g.fast 3.
fttdp w/ vdsl2 4.
vdsl2 5. ? (upto 200m)
fixed wireless 5/6.
satellite 7.
Because FTTB implies lots of end user connections
Well that is certainly the case with Australia's massive boom of apartment builds in all states. Can anyone confirm that at least these have been prewired for FTTP, I am hoping that the design work for these has been influenced by design work being done in NBN V1 era... It would be a disaster if they have not at least been built with optic fibre in mind.
Must say that in WA at least it seems like 1970's UK council housing designs have been transplanted.... must be cheap off the shelf stuff.
I doubt that 15% of electricians even know what a fiber wallplate looks like. http://www.fs.com/c/fiber-optic-wall-plates-1003
Most likely apartments are wired for ethernet. 5e/6 to a MDU.
You've got to understand the NBN isn't selling 100/40 throughput, they're selling 100/40 sync.
Fttp delivers 100/40 sync 100% of the time, unless a drastic fault occurs somewhere along the path.
If you're replying to me, then I should point out that I understand all of this. I'm just saying that there is potential for congestion to affect either service � and it's not really a specific downside of going for FTTN. Especially when (it seems) that the only reason why node congestion exists is due to NBN's decision to go ultra cheap and use 1Gbit backhaul where 10G or more would be appropriate. It's not an issue that is inherent to the technology.
Both would require fiber extensions (fttdp/micronodes). This is on top of the FTTN construction costs. The additions would most likely equate to being higher than an all out FTTP build.
Perhaps, and I'd agree (I've argued this in the British version of Whirlpool in regards to BT's G.fast obsessions). But I'm not going to pretend that FTTP is flawless.
FTT"dp", at least in the way BT and equipment manufacturers describe it, would indeed need fibre to be run to the nodes (in BT's case, to pretty much every telegraph pole)- but don't forget that this needs to be done anyway whether you do FTTP or FTTdp. The same is true for any money wasted on FTTN � if it's spent and the equipment is in � you're going to obsolete it whether you replace it with FTTP or FTTdp
FTTP is 1.
Fttdp w/ vplus 2.
fttdp w/ g.fast 3.
An interesting choice. Isn't G.fast technically better than Vplus, given the short line lengths through the use of FTTdp? (and isn't Vplus some horrible ALu proprietary thing?)
As for your shopping list, it is worth pointing out that some of those issues can just as easily affect an FTTP service.
Shopping list!
Now that's disingenuous to say the least ---
So which specifically of the following issues impact the deliver of FTTH services again Ihardon????
FEXT, AXT, NEXT,
FM Transmitters
Environmental noise
Water Ingress
The gauge of the copper
High Open Faults
Oxidisation
AVC/CVC Congestion in Unicast services
The quality of the copper being used from the Node to your property boundary
The copper pair line length
The state of the copper inside your premise
Impulse noise
Industrial Noise
The state of existing shielding
MBORC (service Interruptions both planned and unplanned)
Bridged Taps both internal and external
Microwave ovens
Cordless Telephones
Spurious Radiation
Non compliant CPE equipment
Type of power back off being applied online both up and down"
Non compliant Central Splitters
Time of Day
Heat
Type of applications people are using (FTTN is a shared resource with limited spectrum)
SPGS" � Small Pair Gain Systems � which were originally designed to and the LNP will love this word "Economically" overcome copper shortfalls by combining several telephone services over a single pair!!!!!!
and
Telstra's "ISS" "incompatible" services" that actually "block" VDSL signals and have to be removed from the network!
*Noting of course that ALL of the Above impact severely and severally obsolete redundant 20th century copper based FTTN/Dp/B services communication services and then some!
So which specifically of the following issues impact the deliver of FTTH services again Ihardon????
I cherry-picked some in the part of the sentence you've managed to cut off with selective quoting.
I get that you keep wanting to push the "FTTP is best" angle, and I don't disagree with it. I'm just saying that FTTP is not flawless, and that some issues can just as easily occur in any access technology.
I get that you keep wanting to push the "FTTP is best" angle, and I don't disagree with it. I'm just saying that FTTP is not flawless, and that some issues can just as easily occur in any access technology.
Doesn't change the fact that it pretty much is, the only real faliures it does have is if it wasn't installed properly or the RSP themselves haven't given you the right plan/tierspeed you have chosen. Maintenance wouldn't need to happen for decades longer than copper. Don't get me wrong i'd be glad to have even just FttDP myself, anything below really shouldn't classify as a first rate broadband network. The problem here is we have these fools in parliament saying they are delivering a first rate network by 2016 at a minimum of 25mbps then saying trying to stealthily change it to 2019 AND THEN saying Australians don't need these speeds while the rest of the world is ploughing on leaving us in the dust. WE lost our chance at coming up the top of innovation because of politics. We could have started FttDP as early as last year with the cheaper developments made to it but because of political reasons it was denied.
["An interesting choice. Isn't G.fast technically better than Vplus, given the short line lengths through the use of FTTdp? (and isn't Vplus some horrible ALu proprietary thing?)"
https://www.alcatel-lucent.com/solutions/vplus
Can do upto 200 on a node upto 550m optimal distance.
It's a standard (35b) and isn't proprietary. Just the next evolution after 17a and 30a and best of all it's compatible with the 7330 hardware which is being supplied NOW to NBN.
G.fast is down to 16-48 customers upto 300m at optimal distance.
17a and 30a can't be vectored in the same cable bunch. So NBN would need to upgrade entire nodes. But with vplus it can be mixed with 17a for vectoring.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
If you have wondered at why some people keep repeatedly posting things here that are proven untrue and pay no attention to the answers, this might explain how it works.
Well, you know what they say, "If you cannot find an "expert" to backup your position, just keep looking and you will find one soon".
I doubt that 15% of electricians even know what a fiber wallplate looks like. http://www.fs.com/c/fiber-optic-wall-plates-1003
Cheap as chips. (NBN must be having difficulty finding ones with their logo on them?)
Cheap as chips. (NBN must be having difficulty finding ones with their logo on them?)
just remember that they are "blanks", no "connector" in them
One of the many elephants in the room for the NBN/MTM is the supply/demand for workers
nbn and all sides of politics have been pretty quiet on this subject since the middle of last year.
About time nbn proactively provided an update on how things are going, or the Federal Oppositions and the media started asking some questions about this pre-election.
Or are nbn going to counter any Federal Labor policy of more fibre with an announcement that due to labor shortages, that their nbn will likely not be completed until 2022, and that what is a 2 year blowout under the current plan would likely be a further blowout (up to 5 years) under whatever date Federal labor announce under their soon to be released plan? A delay that the nation can't afford.
http://www.theaustralian.com
(June 26 2015)
The company building the �National Broadband Network has warned that the project is facing an acute labour shortage, and it is planning to launch a training program designed to beef up its workforce.
NBN chief executive Bill Morrow flagged a shortfall of 4000 workers as the company looked to finish rolling out the network by 2020.
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
NBN has partnered with 10 TAFE and training providers in a bid to address a skills shortage of 4500 staff ahead of the rollout of its multi-technology mix network.
The new campaign, called Career Start, is part of NBN�s $40 million industry workforce development program, which aims to increase the rollout workforce to a peak of 9000 staff, and will also see NBN create a national skills register.
The campaign hopes to attract around 2000 school leavers to take up a career in telecommunications, with training and employment for successful candidates to be delivered through an NBN contractor or sub-contractor.
But with vplus it can be mixed with 17a for vectoring.
Assuming that the radiated interference from the >30MHz signal pushed down a 550m antenna doesn't see it killed by the ACMA.
Makes you wonder if it would be deployed in areas with above ground cables?
Tony Burke on ABC RN this morning. He was actually talking about UPLOAD! Was great to hear. ABC played some responses from business owners about how terrible FTTN/Sat was for business.
Didn't see the connectors? (1 to 4 ports.) Also cheap as chips.
Listening to the ABC Radio AM programme from Queenstown, Tas. One ADSL2+ user stated that VOIP would not be viable over satellite.
Another user talking about not being able to offer wi-fi to bed and breakfast customers.
Someone else talking about EFTPOS dropping out and not being able to use a cloud based solution.
BC played some responses from business owners about how terrible FTTN/Sat was for business.
The caller said that his work required the use of VoIP for communications and that VoiP was not possible on Satellite at the moment, meaning he thought he would lose his current job under the current NBN plan's for his area.
The caller said that his work required the use of VoIP for communications and that VoiP was not possible on Satellite at the moment, meaning he thought he would lose his current job under the current NBN plan's for his area.
Jobs and growth ..... Jobs and growth .... Jobs and growth.
/s
fixed wireless 5/6.
Isn't 25/5 and 50/20 speeds on fixed wireless better than FTTN .
With the exception of those users on FTTP fixed wireless users shall have the best form of NBN for years to come IMO.
Didn't see the connectors? (1 to 4 ports.) Also cheap as chips.
note this text towards the bottom of the page when you click on any of the images
"Note: The products which we are in stock are without adapters."
they appear to be selling "blank plates" :)
and now for something completely different :)
for all those saying the FTTP ONT should have been built with only 1 "UNI-D" port might want to take a look at the ONT that Telstra was providing in Velocity estates.
Guess what it has 2 "phone ports" 4 "RJ45" ports and it even has a coax connection
Made by Alcatel Lucent.
I would guess it is the same motherboard as the NBN ONT just with the co-ax section populated. it uses th esame power connector
Could it possibly be that the units are cheaper to purchase with 4 "RJ45" than to have a custom build with only 1 "RJ54"
see here document dated 2013, no idea if things have changed
Let's have a look at whether the specs or submissions for the Irish NBN equivalent (NBP) will even give FTTN a look in, and can be used to help destroy the Federal Coalition's claims of FTTN being the best solution to provide a minimum of 25Mbps download speeds. Minimum. Not average. Not up to. Not up to Peak/PIR.
It will be interesting to see if any of the 5 RFX respondents even has FTTN in the mix. Or if they do, what the evaluators think of FTTN as a solution. Watch this space.
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/comm
http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/comm
Technical report (specs) for the NBP
Minimum specification for wholesale active access services
Source: Analysys Mason, 2015
http://www.irishtimes.com/bu
the National Broadband Plan (NBP), billed as the great panacea. It promises to replace this patchwork of technologies with one super-fast network, delivering connectivity to 750,000 homes.
The new tender specifies a minimum of download speed of 30 mbps and a minimum upload speed of 6 mbps.
the 30 mbps is not an average but a minimum
The five consortiums vying for the Government�s tender � Eir, Siro, Enet, Imagine, Gigabit � are all likely to mount bids using predominantly fibre technology as it is the fastest available.
Some of the local community in Queenstown, Tasmania having their say.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
Some of the local community in Queenstown, Tasmania having their say.
well nbn� have solved all problems over on the west coast, with possible service probelms, they aren't supplying them anything.
Guess it will be back to Satellite after the election though.
Thanks for the next 3 years suckers
Wonder what our nbn current or future masters could learn something from what Analysys Mason appears to be proposing for the Irish NBP in actually bothering to properly assess demand before they finalise where to efficiently and prudently allocate $ and resources on the nbn build?
However, a programme should be initiated by RSPs by which end users can register their interest in being connected to the NBP network before it has actually been rolled out in their area. This registration programme will be supported by the prior publication by the WSPs of details of the areas to be covered, giving six months� advance notification. The final drop could then be installed for interested end-users at the same time as the network is deployed outside their premises, leading to efficient use of resources.
NBP WSPs should publish a schedule of their planned network coverage and deployment,
made available through a public portal, to raise awareness among end users and allow them to contact their RSP(s) before the network is deployed in their area.
Hopefully publish more than once a year to the public.
The technologies deployed by the selected bidder(s), along with the services delivered, will need to have a clear, technical development roadmap. In addition, any roadmap offered and implemented during the contract period must also be commercially sustainable beyond the end date of the contract.
Guess that rules out FTTN nbn/MTM style.
Some of the local community in Queenstown, Tasmania having their say.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
"Everyone expects wi-fi now, and free wi-fi preferably � especially the Asian tourists, that is the first thing they ask when they get here... they generally won't even book accommodation unless wi-fi is available," she said.
Ms Chappell said she would not be able to offer wi-fi to her guests if the NBN was delivered via satellite.
"The biggest problem with the satellite is you're restricted as to the amount of access you have, so once you've used your monthly data there is no more," she said.
"So I won't be able to allow my guests to use wi-fi at all because I can't take the risk of them using it all and me being left with no wi-fi for the rest of the month and not being able to run my business."
From Switzer Daily, of all people, but it is written by Angela Catterns.
http://switzer.com.au/the-ex
Mary�s report makes us realise the future is almost upon us. It also makes me wonder why we continue down the path of building massive new freeways and why we have to convince ourselves we�re better off with a less than top-of-the-range NBN.
If the Government�s objectives are to be met, the Department will need to ensure that the minimum retail service delivered by each RSP meets the retail service obligations described in Figure 4.1. In practice, the NBP WSPs or an independent third party could carry out this
monitoring on behalf of the Department. For wholesale active access services, the performance of the retail service will be monitored between the NTE located at customer premises and the RSP�s Internet demarcation point (labelled as �Scope of RSP Monitoring� in Figure 4.2 below). In order to facilitate this monitoring, the RSP will be obliged to connect all of its demarcation points to a test server, as depicted in Figure 4.2.
In addition, there will be monitoring of the minimum performance of the WSP�s wholesale service between the NTE located at customer premises and the PoH (labelled as �Scope of WSP monitoring� in Figure 4.2 above), to ensure that the baseline wholesale service provided fully supports the target performance of the minimum retail service.
Analysys Mason's Irish NBP technical report recommend's the above strict RSP and Wholesale monitoring of performance to ensure that minimum Government targets are being met. Why does the Federal Coalition's Broadband Policy/SOE not demand similar from NBNCo and Australian RSP's?
but it is written by Angela Catterns.
http://switzer.com.au/the-e
Despite accepted wisdom, usage by older people is still quite significant. Those aged 55+ spend more than 21 hours across 22 apps per month.
This is true of the Internet.. I find this especially to be the case in my area . we are a community of retirees and the demand for fast broadband is just as strong as for the younger generation. In fact possibly stronger , because they have ownership of the residences and the money to spend of quality BB. In fact , many like myself find the internet is a necessity, especially with poor or no public transport and govt agencies shifting to online interface..
meaning he thought he would lose his current job under the current NBN plan's for his area.
Not to dismiss the issues with satellite, but I thought those areas would be retaining their POTS connections, so ADSL should continue to work.
https://delimiter.com.au/20
�It is extremely disappointing to see that under the current Liberal/National government, the NBN looks to have been set up to fail, and to do so in a miserable and spectacular fashion, for the sole purpose of pointing the finger at the previous Labor government and blaming them for the mess,� he concluded.
But it can't be seen to be failing before the 2016 Federal Election, otherwise it might cost them the election and Turnbull his current job.
6.2 Technical NGA assessment criteria
In order to establish whether an NGA broadband service is available at particular premises, the
following conditions must be met:
....
? the solution must be reliable and of good quality, and not prone to deterioration due to
interference and other ad-hoc external factors
That aptly describes copper based FTTN nicely. Unreliable. Poor quality. Prone to deterioration, interference and external factors such as rain, flooding and extreme heat.
a minimum download speed of 30Mbit/s must be achieved in the coverage area, to all users under normal operational conditions, considering the technology deployed or proposed, where the proposed backhaul network is designed to deliver 30Mbit/s download to all users when they demand it
When they demand it means being able to provide a minimum 30Mbit/s download speeds to all users during peak broadband demand hours.
the solution must rely on optical (or equivalent) technologies
? the solution needs to be able to support a variety of advanced digital services, including
converged all-IP services.
FTTN certainly relies on optical fibre but I'm not sure it will score too highly on being able to support a variety of advanced digital services.
It will likely get thrown out on the futureproof and upgradeability criteria alone.
Wrong!
It's unbelievable how in 2016, people still have such poor misconceptions about how the internet represents much more than internet streaming. For God sakes, we living in an era where IoT is becoming the norm of the households and how businesses operate � and here is a politician whom fails to grasps that the internet is a staple part of the future economy.
for the sole purpose of pointing the finger at the previous Labor government and blaming them for the mess
I do not agree with delimiter as they are also making News Corp and Telstra happy chappies as well.
the Irish NBN equivalent (NBP)
Ireland ..... isn't that where Malcolm kept quoting he wanted to start his MTM from. Said that he wouldn't have started in Australia or something like that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/bu
What does a small business owner in Co Tipperary have in common with a goat herder in northern Ethiopia?
They both need a satellite to receive email: one from the most barren, sunblasted place on the planet, the other from a European country which touts itself as a high-tech hub.
I'm not surprised that they're having trouble with getting broadband into Tipperary though as I always thought that ...
? It's a long way to Tipperary,
It's a long way to go.
It's a long way to Tipperary .... ?
Edit: PS I make no apology for trying to retain my sense of humour whilst Malcolm keeps rolling out his MTM debacle.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
Anyone think Mr Faulkner could be the brother of Johnny Vegas?
Ireland ..... isn't that where Malcolm kept quoting he wanted to start his MTM from. Said that he wouldn't have started in Australia or something like that.
If really pressed on his NBN role, the PM resorts to a rhetorical defence, blaming Labor for starting the project � his preferred wheeze is the Irish joke, "If you wanted to get there, I wouldn't start from here" � and mounting an elegant-sounding attack on the very idea that anything can ever be "future-proofed", a theme he hammered home when he took over the leadership. This is unassailable high ground for Malcolm Turnbull, but it is completely wrong-headed.
NBNCo is leaking and, if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal, management is hostage to every expensive consultancy in town, and senior staff are leaving, disillusioned, as what they thought was a nation-building project is turning into a politicised quagmire. As one former employee told me: "I'll be amazed if it ever gets built."
This is an unforgiveable state of affairs for such a vital project and, whoever wins the next election, the NBN will need to be redesigned again. Hopefully it will be done with the national interest, not politics, uppermost in mind.
Paddy Manning is a journalist and author of the recently published Born To Rule: The Unauthorised Biography Of Malcolm Turnbull (MUP).
http://www.abc.net.au/
Ireland ..... isn't that where Malcolm kept quoting he wanted to start his MTM from. Said that he wouldn't have started in Australia or something like that.
LOL
As far as I'm aware no one has ever picked Turnbull up on his "we wouldn't have started from here" nonsense and asked him where he would have started from, what he would have done and how he would have got a different result than Helen Coonan. I really, really hope someone does it. The answer could be a laugh.
if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal.
After the AFP raids, one can only imagine what that did to morale and trust.
NBNCo is leaking and, if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal, management is hostage to every expensive consultancy in town, and senior staff are leaving,
It has been setup to fail � only an ALP win will mean it doesnt.
As for news limited � they can go jump!
It has been setup to fail
If you scratch away the nbn logos on the side of the nbn vans, there's a Telstra logo under them ready to go :)
NBNCo is leaking and, if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal, management is hostage to every expensive consultancy in town, and senior staff are leaving, disillusioned
I see some agree with you.
In addition, any roadmap offered and implemented during the contract period must also be commercially sustainable beyond the end date of the contract.
That excludes FTTN and HFC.
FTTB would be a tough sell, but if you apply enough transparency* to the numbers it might make it across the line.
- like nbn, I have overloaded this descriptor. like nbn, I will not tell you what it means now.
If you scratch away the nbn logos on the side of the nbn vans, there's a Telstra logo under them ready to go :)
Rocky ... can you come down to the lockup please and bail me out? The AFP just raided arrested me for vandalising a nbn� van.
can you come down to the lockup please and bail me out
https://66.media.tumblr.com/
*flys to vegas*
One of the many elephants in the room for the NBN/MTM is the supply/demand for workers
Been a problem since day one... Pre build Labor/NBN CO were doing 'roadshows' talking to state govts (mostly contrary LNP), unions, industry bodies etc etc.
About time nbn proactively provided an update on how things are going,
Good luck � This weeks submission to ACCC is totally contrary to transparency ..regardless of what KK says.
or the Federal Oppositions and the media started asking some questions about this pre-election.
Labor and Greens have tried pretty hard in Senate Estimates to get some info but stone walled by NBN Co with Govt support. One might ask what they have to hide and I'd suggest the disaster that is evolving right now with FTTN rollout is self explanatory....
Or are nbn going to counter
It is quite apparent NBN Co/LNP govt will say nothing because the veil of secrecy...a la Border Security...is intended to drift all issues out of the public minds ..doesn't exist... Heard the expression that no boats are coming?...proven to actually be they are are still coming just not landing .... perception management
Listening to the ABC Radio AM programme
You missed the real 'elephant' in the report .... The LNP local member who has previously been reported as Sat is good enough because of cost and then under pressure of Labor's commitment to FTTP wanted to talk to the Minister for an alternative, is now apparently saying he wants FTTP too.... Maybe he got a no from the Minister and moved to survival mode.....Wonderful world of politics...!!
Wonder how many other communities are going to pop up now and put the same pressure on......
That excludes FTTN and HFC.
But if they could just increase the prices of FTTN and HFC, they could be commercially sustainable technologies for a while, providing
1. The elasticity of demand was low.
2. There was immaterial product substitution to >=4G mobile broadband
3. The barriers to entry for alternative technologies to overbuild the FTTN or HFC were high enough.
Maybe he got a no from the Minister and moved to survival mode.....Wonderful world of politics...!!
nah, just "survival mode" for the local electorate
"See I have done all I can to get you FTTP, so as I am such a good person please vote for me just remember what Aophie said a couple of weeks ago, the same will apply re FTTP"
The LNP local member who has previously been reported as Sat is good enough because of cost and then under pressure of Labor's commitment to FTTP wanted to talk to the Minister for an alternative, is now apparently saying he wants FTTP too
If the LNP is not careful, they'll be a breakaway real "Country" party, inspired by what the current LNP is not doing for regional Broadband, that will consign the "N" in LNP to the big "Nothingness" it currently appears to be.
Wonder how many other communities are going to pop up now and put the same pressure on......
A bit like giving one of your 10 kids a brand new iPhone, and then having to manage the fallout from the have nots.
anyone got a link to Tony Burke on ABC RN this morning?
Has anyone told them the bandwidth required for Hololens and the like?
anyone got a link to Tony Burke on ABC RN this morning?
https://itunes.apple.com/pod
Tony Burke on ABC RN
would this be it
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/
I'm not surprised that they're having trouble with getting broadband into Tipperary though as I always thought that ...
? It's a long way to Tipperary,
It's a long way to go.
It's a long way to Tipperary .... ?
Edit: PS I make no apology for trying to retain my sense of humour whilst Malcolm keeps rolling out his MTM debacle.
The MTM is certainly a 'rarey'. We need to shove it over the nearest sea cliff we can find.
if what I'm hearing from former staff is right, morale inside the organisation is abysmal
Actually, morale has been low for a very long while. Many keep putting on a brave face because they need their jobs. They really do not have their hearts in the job.
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
I wonder if it is like the "cheaper, faster, sooner" mantra they spouted before the last election?
The absolute stupidity of this is that even more money will be spent on a dead end technology. The LNP is doing what the old woman who swallowed a fly did. It is a never ending vicious and expensive circle that leads nowhere!
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN.
Well at least the Liberal's policy is strong on details. I wonder if Kingee and GMZT will be calling for Labor's NBN policy release to be as strong and as forthcoming on detail! /S
I really don't see how Labor will be able to match the Liberal's MTM policy though. S/
My Dog what an absolutely nothing bloody press release from Mitch. I imagine that he's been agonising over the drafting of that for the last 4 weeks of the election period!
Edit: added another sarcasm symbol just to make it clear.
Oh dear. It start off with a fact error:
Labor�s National Broadband Network (NBN) would have taken six to eight years longer to rollout across Australia
No. It would take 6-8 years longer if they were to abandon the dogs breakfast they've created now, junk all the work they've done on HFC and FTTN over the last three years, and go back and finish the FTTP rollout.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
https://delimiter.com.au/201
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
It does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
I made that 4 weeks to hit that target. How many on FTTN or HFC?
It does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
Well a portion of the 2.36 million premises (with FttP) will be RFS whereas a portion of the 2.36 million premises (with FttN) will be RS.
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
+1
The MSM will probably ignore it, which is probably the intent. Let's see what the tech media make of it.
Labor�s already tried and failed to deliver the NBN. They can�t be trusted to bring broadband to Australians.
When first you don't succeed, try, try again.
The release of the Labor NBN Policy and Plans will need to explain why they can be trusted to do a better job if given a 2nd chance, and to come up with a good argument on how the Federal Coalition can't be trusted to deliver on their NBN promises, can't be trusted to complete the NBN, and can't be trusted to invest in Broadband wisely.
It's rather amusing that the "nbn" is no-where in sight in this press release. With all references to the NBN in upper case.
does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
How many of these are going to be "we flipped the switch on hfc, now users can connect to the same network they have been able to access for 10 years already" and claim it as a success to pad the numbers...
How many of these are going to be "we flipped the switch on hfc, now users can connect to the same network they have been able to access for 10 years already" and claim it as a success to pad the numbers...
Cue ridiculously large high voltage knife switch and obligatory pyrotechnic show?
And Turnbull with his "innovation" fluff as well.
He seems to believe that if he just keeps repeating agile and innovative, nobody will ever think to check whether the Glorious Emperor of MTM is fully clad.
Or wearing anything at all � apart from his beloved corroding copper, of course.
Blackpaw writes...
http://mitchfifield
Media Contacts:
Justine Sywak � 0448 448 487 (Fifield)
Les White � 0409 805 122 (Nash)
Tempt for Texting rising.
My favourite bit is this:
Labor�s National Broadband Network (NBN) would have taken six to eight years longer to rollout across Australia, leaving businesses waiting longer for superfast broadband.
It's true, it would have taken 6 to 8 years longer ... if the Coalition had finished the MTM NBN 2 years ago :-).
It's true, it would have taken 6 to 8 years longer ... if the Coalition had finished the MTM NBN 2 years ago :-).
Be fair � we have to allow for the fact that there were probably two years lost while the vast Telstra legal department negotiated their way to exactly the takeover negotiated settlement they wanted.
agile and innovative
About as agile and innovative as a slime mould.
a simple organism that consists of an acellular mass of creeping jellylike protoplasm containing nuclei, or a mass of amoeboid cells..
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
I wonder if this is here as a reaction because of the happy snaps the NBN staffer made/sent of papers whilst looking for leaks everdance in Conroy's place.?????????
It does have one verifiable point, that 2.36 million premises are going to be RFS this financial year.
The FY2016 target is 2.632 million. The figure as of 26/05/16 was 2.556 million.
How many on FTTN or HFC?
The 2016 Corporate Plan FY2016 for FttN is 500K, for HFC is 10K.
EDIT: According to Weekly Progress Reports
Greenfields target was passed � 12/05/16
Fixed Wireless target was passed � 31/03/16
Satellite was lit up � 05/05/16 (target hasn't been actually passed � but most likely a mixup)
Brownfields target = 1.59 Million
As of 26/05/16 it is = 1.45 Million
(But dont be surprised to see a heap of FttP and FttN lit up in the next 4 weeks as companies try to get FY results pumped up)
How many of these are going to be "we flipped the switch on hfc, now users can connect to the same network they have been able to access for 10 years already" and claim it as a success to pad the numbers...
See above.
It's true, it would have taken 6 to 8 years longer
Actually, the truth is we will never know. The time required to complete Labor's NBN is no longer knowable. The time required to actually complete Malcolm's Terrible Misfeasance is also likely to be uncertain.
That media release pretty much sums up Fifields entire contribution to the NBN debate.
That media release pretty much sums up Fifields entire contribution to the NBN debate.
https://twitter.com/senatorf
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
5 hours after tweet launch.
1 retweet (fat fingers)
1 like (self adulation)
A roaring succes/s
https://twitter.com/senator
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
Here's my top 4 from a selection of tweets in response to the above half hearted attempt at attacking Labor's NBN plan that has not actually been released yet.
BS Mitch. Taking us us mugs huh? Keep lying and you loose the election based on the #nbn lying alone.
With a 50-100 year lifespan....vs your rubbish which is already obsolete. Your cost up to $56b as well. Nice try Mitchy.
oh, and your definition of "superfast" internet is about 20 years out of date.
Does your costs cover more AFP raids?
Here's my top 4 from a selection of tweets in response to the above half hearted attempt at attacking Labor's NBN plan that has not actually been released yet.
He will have to sit in a large bucket of ice after to soothe those well deserved burns.
Ever wondered why NZ have had much more success with their FTTH roll out....No now grossly oversized quasi govt NBNCo (with it's now 5000+ bureaucratic staff), and the majority of the design and implementation work being carried out by the private sector. Seems that our Au politicians on both sides of the political divide could learn quite a bit from our near neighbours.
The FY2016 target is 2.632 million. The figure as of 26/05/16 was 2.556 million.
Yep, but that's from the 2015 corporate plan. When the LNP attacked Labor at the last election they used figures from the 2010 corporate plan. The equivalent now would be the figures from the SR. On those figures the LNP is around 2.5 million RFS down. Labor is doing and has done sfa on those numbers. Why??
here's ye olde simple factoid of information whether you rollout fttn or fttdp you require fibre to be deployed..
typical lan specs are too 100 meters or less for speed variant at distance, though how deploy speeds past 100 meter over copper is the problem when you start looking cable accesses between 250-1000 meters from the pit to 1st point..
unsure what d/a cost is to convert from copper to fibre..
though the cost of the fibre>vdsl/adsl gear retails at $750-$1,500 USD for 4 port vdsl/8 port adsl model or the 8 port vdsl/16 port adsl variant.. though no guarantee to speed you get from cat-5e/6/6a/7/7a past 100 meters of copper cable.
though the last quote i got from telstra to provide vdsl off a 3km D/A with a total line length from the D/A at 1.5 km was about $5,000 a lot different to what is claimed in a report to parliament..
you can pass what i say off as complete bullshit and rubbish, though before you dismiss what i say off hand you may want to drop telstra a line and ask for an install quote for vdsl before you comment..
do your research om the hardware typically being install for vdsl services and plausible outcomes for fttdp deployment..
apart from the fraud deployment costing claiming fttn/dp is cheaper and quicker to deploy...
there has yet to be true costing to this fttn/dp delivery farce to this date, there is no projection cost of maintaining the copper either..
i believe the earth quake cemented nz's fate to push to fibre optical reality..
Ever wondered why NZ have had much more success with their FTTH roll out
Primarily because of what the NZ Government did in successfully splitting up the incumbent Telecom New Zealand cleverly and strategically putting the long term NZ national interest ahead of the short-term Telecom New Zealand shareholder pain from a halving of the share price as a result of the split.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_New_Zealand
In 2008, Telecom was operationally separated into three divisions under local loop unbundling initiatives by central government � Telecom Retail; Telecom Wholesale; and Chorus, the network infrastructure division. This separation effectively ended any remnants of monopoly that Telecom Retail once had in the market. In 2011 the demerger process was complete, with Telecom and Chorus becoming separate listed companies
2006, 9 May: An audio clip recorded on 2 March was released involving Telecom CEO Theresa Gattung admitting the use of confusion as a chief marketing tool in the industry. The March recording also dismissed the New Zealand Government as "too smart to do anything dumb" with regards to regulation.
When the LNP attacked Labor at the last election they used figures from the 2010 corporate plan.
You are right they did indeed.
The equivalent now would be the figures from the SR. On those figures the LNP is around 2.5 million RFS down.
Actually the SR figures are CY2016 not FY 2016. I suspect this was deliberate to make direct comparisons more difficult. But you are correct that the SR numbers are way out due to HFC delays.
Labor is doing and has done sfa on those numbers. Why??
Well they did basically reject the SR in its entirety. Maybe they are not prepared to stoop so low? ;)
https://twitter.com/senator
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
5 hours after tweet launch.
1 retweet (fat fingers)
1 like (self adulation)
A roaring succes/s
I got tired of scrolling through the dozens of angry replies and I am somewhat amazed � 0 positive replies. Normally you'd get some glued on old LNP lovies, but it seems even they can't stomach that much bullshit.
they cooked the books to make it look like fttn was cheaper to install when the opposite was the actual truth... when it was cheaper to actually replace the copper network with a fibre 1..
Primarily because of what the NZ Government did in successfully splitting up the incumbent Telecom New Zealand cleverly and strategically putting the long term NZ national interest ahead of the short-term Telecom New Zealand shareholder pain from a halving of the share price as a result of the split.
Telstra has effectively been bought out, and what is still the ongoing problem with the delivery of the NBN in Au.....Yes, it's the common factor, the quasi govt bureaucracy at the NBNCo who still are not properly managing, and certainly won't take on the direct management of the workforce doing the installation works.
Don't take my word for it, have a chat with some of the prime contractors and their workforces to see why the project continues to be off the rails.
well what do you expect when you malcolm's shrills in power at nbn co..
Labor�s National Broadband Network (NBN) would have taken six to eight years longer to rollout across Australia, leaving businesses waiting longer for superfast broadband.
Ahhhhh! Mr Fifield needs to look at the scope for NBN which was Residential not business. Business/CBDs was never the focus but if they were in the mix then they got lucky..... not anymore though with FTTN, Business should be lamenting the LNP lack of vision.
Under the Coalition, the rollout of the NBN is on budget and on track to meet its corporate plan
Telstra are pretty pissed off being shortchanged by $3B due to lack of cutovers.... ie. slow rollout, delays, low end Plans, take up...must wish they stayed with FTTP eh?
n April this year, rural and remote Australia began to connect to NBN�s Sky Muster Satellite Service, delivering internet speeds that are faster than many urban areas.
It is noted that due congrats are not offered to Quigley and NBN V1 regime for putting that in place for Fifield to take the glory.....
Under Labor, the NBN Interim Satellite Service was poorly managed, slow and congested.
I'd like to see the nitty gritties of that � just a wild statement otherwise
Labor�s already tried and failed to deliver the NBN
but but but ....the only stuff working in Fifield's quagmire is Fixed Wireless, Satellite and FTTP...all Labor NBN initiatives and started under NBN V1 ...FTTN, LNPs only contribution, is a disaster
God, please make Labor win the next election...... the lies are just too much
That is embarrassingly pathetic. Its at a 5 years old level, complete with whining and finger pointing.
After nearly three years they still can't get into governing mode and are stuck in opposition mode.... does Fifield have any idea at all what his Ministerial responsibilities are....?
The FY2016 target
Thanks for the data Ozzie...I still hold the vies that if my high school and Uni pass marks had have been reduced to 40 % of the norm I could call myself a genius.
Though repetitious , Telstra doesn't seem to like the targets as they are $3B short on the Agreement, so how can the 'reached' targets which are so much feted by Fifield, Turnbull and Morrow be considered realistic in pure business terms....?
If the 'feted' targets are realistic why are taxpayers stumping up $500k through Cormann's office for consultants to work out how NBN Co can fund and complete the project. ATthis stage NBN CO were supposed to be generating enough revenue to pay back the govt and fund itself....not happening Jan.....!!
I got tired of scrolling through the dozens of angry replies and I am somewhat amazed � 0 positive replies. Normally you'd get some glued on old LNP lovies, but it seems even they can't stomach that much bullshit.
I suppose that the paid trolls who frequent forums to argue government propaganda aren't paid to visit minister's own websites, so that may be the explanation for the lack of support.
Telstra has effectively been bought out,
You might have to expand on that a bit....
ministerial, nothing there about that their plan was to do jack shit for 4 years, as it was prophetic of the lnp retaining power at the next election.
though i'm betting that it doesn't happen and high ranks within the lnp are going to be shitting themselves them backing malcolm, and they will be ducking for cover not to see themselves inside of a prison cell or worse in the docks on treason and fraud charges..
the ones not on life sentences will likely end up on death row..
Where are Kingy and Zealot...??? ...even Fifield..."
I want them to keep telling me how good their FTTN is...!!
It was unable to be installed due to network shortfall.
To make matters worse I've had no adsl for 1.5 weeks and both telstra and tpg will not let us go back to adsl. Now i am stuck with no Internet for an undetermined time.
Wow man thats just sad.
There are so many of these stories. I hope they spread the word how bad FTTN is, from signup to actual service.
Where are Kingy and Zealot...???
They've finally developed the psychological concept known as 'logic', and are now in hiding, due to shame, for supporting such a disgraceful technological implementation...
...Let us all sing songs of praise!
When the election rolls around, I'm voting both upper and lower, for whichever party, and whoever, is adamantly pursuing FTTP.
I will ACCEPT FTTdp, BUT ONLY with the ability to Opt-In for FTTP, at a REASONABLE cost, FOR EVERYONE; MUCH unlike the current situation of an ESTIMATED $5,000+ for a single premise, and then have NBNCo stall and delay and avoid.
As I posted previously � My area isn't due for even so much as CONSIDERATION, until 2019, at the current rollout rate.
I sincerely hope and pray, that, by then, we are either back to FTTP or FTTdp with opt-in for full FTTP at a REASONABLE COST!
https://delimiter.com.au/201
God i hope they don't come to the western suburbs... Sorry to those in pakenham for FTTN, although fixed wireless and HFC doesn't seem that much better tbh
lnp masters of the con, confusion, conflicts of interests of business dealings...
spreading lies to boot...
LNP masters of a con and fiction.
I wonder what happened to "sooner, faster, cheaper"? After all, it was Malcolm Turnbull who kept telling us this at the last election, and that he had a "fully costed plan"!
it is called winging the bullshit and lie off their face and pass the blame games to the adnorsium.. cloister..
as for fully costed they've cooking the books so long they wouldn't know which was truth...
only solution is to blame labor, to the hilt hoping the bullshit and mud stinks them out...
sad to say both sides are to blame for the state of mess we are in.. they are equally to blame, more lnp...
I wonder what happened to "sooner, faster, cheaper"?
https://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies
The SOONER they can get voters to forget about their various UP TO 2016 sooner, faster, cheaper NBN plans, the FASTER they can attempt to offload, failing NBN Co network assets back to Telstra, at a massively CHEAPER net benefit to Telstra and News Corp (via Foxtel), than if Telstra had invested their own $ to upgrade their HFC and Copper Networks in the first place, or News Corp had built their own fixed lined PayTV content delivery infrastructure.
I wonder what happened to "sooner, faster, cheaper"? After all, it was Malcolm Turnbull who kept telling us this at the last election, and that he had a "fully costed plan"!
Remember this and where we are now, what a total mess generated by the LNP .http://www.theregister.co.uk
Swift1 Only By Fibre writes...
http://www.theregister.co.u
Abbott told parliament that under his government "pits and pipes "will not be touched" over last 500m,"
That partly explains why all the back-tracking on FTTdp located in the pits.
"NBN equals asbestos equals stop the network � that's just crazy"
Can't wait for the Federal Coalition to bring out the Asbestos bogey-man scare tactics, after Federal Labor release their NBN election policy of fibre deeper into the network. I'd be amazed if they didn't bring out this one again.
God i hope they don't come to the western suburbs... Sorry to those in pakenham for FTTN, although fixed wireless and HFC doesn't seem that much better tbh
Fifield & his cronies or FTTN?
Unfortunately if your talking about FTTN it's definitely on the way. The Kings Park rollout which covers my area is rapidly nearing completion & will be active by the end of the year, August in my suburb. :(
Just came across this article by Nick Ross 20 May 2016 that I had missed and was posted in this forum but apparently not discussed. It's well worth a read along with the Nick Ross article of 2012 lined below that Nick cross refers to in his recent article.
http://www.abc.net.au/techno
Huge doubts cast over Coalition's 'cheaper' NBN alternative
They've finally developed the psychological concept known as 'logic', and are now in hiding, due to shame, for supporting such a disgraceful technological implementation...
you must be new here... :P
"Under the Coalition, the rollout of the NBN is on budget" Hmmm, I wouldn't call a massive cost blowout from $29 billion to $56 odd billion 'on budget'
" and on track to meet its corporate plan target of 2.632 million premises ready for service this financial year." Revisionism at it's finest, anybody remember "25Mbps for everyone by 2016"?
Interesting it complains "the NBN Interim Satellite Service was poorly managed, slow and congested", the very system the LNP insisted was all that was necessary! Of course the interim satellite service was slow and congested, that's why we needed new ones.
It then goes on to say "In April this year, rural and remote Australia began to connect to NBN�s Sky Muster Satellite Service, delivering internet speeds that are faster than many urban areas". So basically boasting about the very service that they said wasn't required, and which Labor went ahead and ordered anyway. Lucky thing somebody found the satellite slots!
Too bad there are going to be a lot more users than was previously required. I understand the second satellite will be required immediately on commissioning, rather than just being an active spare.
RockyMarciano writes...
http://mitchfifield
I feel that Mitch Fifield is like a wind-up doll that has been switched to Evil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vTCzi8WY3Y
https://twitter.com/senator
Labor's nbn plan. Wait longer, pay more.
5 hours after tweet launch.
1 retweet (fat fingers)
1 like (self adulation)
19 hours after the tweet and still only 1 retweet and 1 love/like.
It's as though ppl reading it are just reminded that
Under the Federal Coalition's NBN plan you'll have to wait at least 4 more years and someone will have to pay double the original forecast price than was previously promised under the Federal Coalition.
When you don't have anything positive or constructive to say and you don't want to draw attention to your team's flap-ups, then just STFU. Especially on public Social Media like twitter.
http://www.morningstar.com.a
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
if the negotiations were under way BEFORE the election was called than I can't see any, as NBN Co are supposed to carry on doing what they do.
If negotiations started after the election was called, then it may move into an area of concern
Forgot who linked this video, but just watched it https://youtu.be/WZRiuT5I7e4
Few surprises (for me anyway) for hfc on slides 4-7
Hfc requires 2 devices in premises, NBN supplied NTD plus an RSP supplied gateway. And if the customer wants cable TV they need a third device. And even if the customer attaches a ups to these devices, the network doesn't work in a power outage.
Also "existing phone sockets won't have dial tone unless connected to voip gateway by a registered cabler at end user cost" � yet another cost shifted to the customer if they require a home phone (personally I haven't had one connected in 10+ years but I imagine this will most affect the people who least want to change over to nbn) how is this "cheaper"? Every step of the way we have been conned by mtm.
That media release pretty much sums up Fifields entire contribution to the NBN debate.
Which in turn can be reduced to a few words � much like that famous prescription in Animal Farm:
'MTM all good, NBN all baaad.'
Great to know the comms minister is just as knowledgable as most of his predecessors.
Fifield & his cronies or FTTN?
Unfortunately if your talking about FTTN it's definitely on the way. The Kings Park rollout which covers my area is rapidly nearing completion & will be active by the end of the year, August in my suburb. :(
:(
i live in 2 suburbs with divorced parents. My mums area getting fixed wireless next year at werribee south despite some areas of werribee and point cook having FTTP, the only area possibly even getting FTTP in Werribee South is the Marina which isnt even finished. My dads area of Altona Meadows is getting HFC if that hasn't been halted (i did see fibre backbone being installed near the Laverton train station), this year. Neither option i am happy about.
I hope one day, they will pay for what they have done. Being remembered as the most useless government in the history of Australia isn't enough with the way they have crippled our country.
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
None. It's business as usual, and it's not the government as a government owned company, not the government. Government owned companies are not affected by the caretaker convention unless what they do/announce is of political significance (e.g. the announcement related to DOCSIS 3.1 rollout that is supposed to come later this month has been flagged as being of concern, although NBNco claim the announcement was scheduled long before the election was called.)
Basically NBNco have a letter of expectation they are supposed to work towards until another LOE comes along.
the announcement related to DOCSIS 3.1
I thought it isn't 3.1 yet? At least full duplex aint happenin for a while...
Also LOE?
A great real life example of actual difference in technology using current policy (LNP) vs the previous policy.
A great real life example of actual difference in technology
and The sad thing is that is FTTP vs FTTB which is much better then FTTN as a comparison.
difference in technology using current policy (LNP) vs the previous policy.
A real world example and very telling of the state of affairs that is the LNP broadband policy.
Wynne has been in contact with Optus, who said there is nothing wrong with the network installed to his premises. NBN, in turn, said there is no issue with the NBN network in his area.
This could be a technical fault, an issue with the customer's modem or wiring, or the amount of data capacity that the retailer has bought in that area."
These sort of issues are really going to diss off customers. Where neither RSP or NBN will take responsibility. What a clustermuck!
What a clustermuck!
It says ...
His home network was lucky to get nine megabytes per second. "And at night, when everyone is streaming TV, forget about it. I tried to download a movie at home the other night. It was going to take 23 hours.
What would cause FTTB to deliver just 9Mbps download and why is it so much worse at peak times? Possibly more to the point, why don't the NBNCo and Optus seem to care?
What would cause FTTB to deliver just 9Mbps download and why is it so much worse at peak times? Possibly more to the point, why don't the NBNCo and Optus seem to care?
My thoughts exactly. FTTB in the absence of congestion should be at least 50Mbps and probably 100Mbps. And since it is an MDU, congestion between the DSLAM and the Access Aggregation Switch is unlikely because the number of premises sharing the backhaul is low.
The fact that it slows down in the busy hour tells us that there are problems between the node and the Optus network. Most likely explanation is that Optus simply have not purchased enough CVC at that POI, and that the problem is not in the NBN at all.
It's also quite possible he has a shitty drop cable and his connection is syncing at 10Mbps to his home gateway. I've seen that one before. I was once in a small ISP and you wouldn't believe how many customer complaints we fixed by dropping a good Cat5 drop cable into an envelope and mailing it out.
The quote is megabytes per second, not megabits per second.
Good pickup. Although the author seems to be so bad he might actually mean megabits.
Still 9 MBytes/sec would be pretty good download speed to any real server. I wonder if the guy might be comparing how long it takes to download off their in-house server when he's at the office or at home?
Government owned companies are not affected by the caretaker convention
nbn� say they are affected by the caretaker convention (and they have already been accused of breaching it).
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Still 9 MBytes/sec would be pretty good download speed to any real server.
9 megabytes per second for 23 hours is over 720 gigabytes. Looks like someone might have made a mix up with their figures somewhere.
9 megabytes per second for 23 hours is over 720 gigabytes.
The quote was His home network was lucky to get nine megabytes per second. "And at night, when everyone is streaming TV, forget about it. I tried to download a movie at home the other night. It was going to take 23 hours.
9 MBps = 72 Mbps. So his home network gets ~75% of his work network speed? At night the speeds are less � (1 movie per 23 hours). This is not a very precise metric but is probably significantly less than ~72Mbps.
Edit � actually a re-read show the speeds are messed up.
Tests showed Wynne's studio rarely gets download speeds of less than 95 megabytes per second, even during peak periods. His home network was lucky to get nine megabytes per second. "And at night, when everyone is streaming TV, forget about it. I tried to download a movie at home the other night. It was going to take 23 hours."
Typical carp journalism. CARP! :)
Additional Edit: Perhaps the studio is a Gbps?
I dont really think so but it could be. Optus did have 1 Gbps service according to the NBN Wholesale report as of 31/03/16.
Additional Additional Edit:
It isnt Gbps � He signed up to the same plan with Optus, offering the same speed and unlimited data as his work connection.
See edited post
He's comparing ftth with basically fttn..
Wynne's apartment is also on Brunswick Road, just three kilometres from the studio. Six months ago the NBN network was installed. He signed up to the same plan with Optus, offering the same speed and unlimited data as his work connection. The difference is, instead of fibre to the premises, the optic fibre cable only goes as far as the basement of the apartment block. From there it is dispersed via the old copper network.
A great real life example of actual difference in technology using current policy (LNP) vs the previous policy.
Mark Opitz is a legend, it was worth a read for that alone.
But this doesn't even touch on one application of fttp that studios will find super important in the future.
With a low latency fttp connection it is possible to have session musicians play live, from a remote location, in a recording session.
This is a competitive advantage for a studio as it reduces costs for their customers and increases the talent pool.
Thus is not a hypothetical use either, I have spoken to someone in Brisbane doing this now.
The quote is megabytes per second, not megabits per second.
Yeah, and it also stated 95 Megabytes per second for the FTTP connection.
Typical of journalism now given the lack of sub editors.
Thus is not a hypothetical use either
Indeed, I have made or at least attempted to make use of such possibilities for over 20 years.
And studios these days do not have $4k/month for ridiculously slow ISDN.
P.S. Just look at the collaborative features built into DAW software like Steinberg Cubase these days.
These sort of issues are really going to diss off customers.
They are, so it's a pity the number of endusers involved isn't much higher during the election campaign.
The coalition has a great deal to answer for, over the way it has imposed the woeful MTM policy.
Where neither RSP or NBN will take responsibility.
This seems a familiar and longstanding situation � you only have to substitute Telstra for nbn� there, and that kind of scenario has been going on for many years. It seems nbn� have learnt well.
Good pickup. Although the author seems to be so bad he might actually mean megabits.
It does seem that way, in the context of the article. So it sounds like the intention was to mean 9Mbps.
Which suggests there could be a number of other factors arising from that particular FTTB installation. Yet another reason for endorsing the use of FTTP, as a means of trying to reverse that Aussie plunge from 30th in the world to a lowly 60th.
as a means of trying to reverse that Aussie plunge from 30th in the world to a lowly 60th.
I saw a graph the other day where we are 67th, and out ranked by countries you would never have thought would have come even close to us.
We are a joke in the international stage when it comes to Internet connectivity. Yet all we see our government do is brush it off as though that is enough to raise our ranking!
We are a joke in the international stage when it comes to Internet connectivity.
Yes, so thank God we now have a government that fully understands the need for innovation and agility.
With a rap like that they're bound to do the right thing about restoring our global broadband rating.
Which suggests there could be a number of other factors arising from that particular FTTB installation.
This is where I keep getting to. Forget the FTTP argument for a while ... FTTB is a tried and tested technology. So's FTTN for that matter. They've been used successfully around the world. Why is the NBNCo having so many problems here? It's hard to see it being the technology itself. So is it the copper or the backhaul to the node or something else. It's hard to tell with the CVC issue muddying the water. Perhaps that's how the NBNCo and the RSPs like it.
Can you just imagine the outcry's is the Government invested over $50B on upgrading Broadband Networks and most premises could only usually get <15Mbps download speeds during ever lengthening peak usage hours on the upgraded Networks.
Trying to blame the premise owner/occupants or the RSP's is just not going to wash it with the public.
NBNCo can sing until the cows come home about how they are meeting their targets to deliver XYZ PIR line speeds to the RSP's.
The Federal Government will be held responsible for ensuring that the NBNCo wholesale pricing and regulatory regimes for the RSP's, and consumer laws actually result in the minimum speeds that are required during peak hours.
This could be one of the biggest election issues at the next but one Federal Election in 2019 (or earlier if the next Government does not last it's full term or goes for an early election).
This is where I keep getting to.
Exactly (you're not the only one).
Why is the NBNCo having so many problems here? It's hard to see it being the technology itself. So is it the copper
Both the FTTN and FTTB tech are well proven elsewhere, so why are we still being fed this nbn� line that they have to run long, multiple pilot installs to see if it actually works?
Does the tech magically undergo a form change when it crosses the equator � or is nbn� dragging it out until the election is safely out of the way before the reality can be exposed?
FTTB is a tried and tested technology. So's FTTN for that matter.
FTTB i can accept, FTTN i can't. I mean yeah it's been used worldwide and they probably didn't have as much installation problems as we do but why should we use outdated technology while the rest of the world is moving on? Why are we using such technology without even planning ahead especially for a large country as ours? Because it isn't about whats best for Australia anymore, its whats best for them. They don't care to see us suffer, they care about their pockets.
moved from other thread
gpon writes...
FTTN delivers a solution faster for the vast majority of people.
But at what cost?
Does the massive cost, justify the benefits?
How much will it cost to upgrade the FTTN?
What will be the foregone benefits and missed opportunities, and damage to the economy, business, other organisations and the Australian people and workers of all ages, from having FTTN as opposed to something better?
What will be the risk of the costs of upgrading or overbuilding the FTTN being so great than any substantial wide spread upgrade of the FTTN is delayed far beyond when it is needed?
Does the massive cost, justify the benefits?
According to the SR ... scenario 4 (no FTTN) matches the roll out speed of the MTM (with FTTN), is cash flow positive in the same year as the MTM, delivers a similar IIR to the MTM and craps all over the MTM for performance of the end result.
There is no justification for FTTN. Never has been.
Both the FTTN and FTTB tech are well proven elsewhere, so why are we still being fed this nbn� line that they have to run long, multiple pilot installs to see if it actually works?
Because if they told us the truth, which is that there is a 2-3 year lead time getting the OSS/BSS in place for a new (to them) technology, nobody would believe them? The pilots are to give the developers something to test their code on....
Seriously, this explains most of the delay in FTTN and HFC deployment. FTTP deployment, on the other hand, has been running along at a fairly decent clip because they started on the back end for that in 2010 or so.
According to the SR ... scenario 4 (no FTTN) matches the roll out speed of the MTM (with FTTN), is cash flow positive in the same year as the MTM, delivers a similar IIR to the MTM and craps all over the MTM for performance of the end result.
There is no justification for FTTN. Never has been.
Yeah, I wonder how the current regime would justify the decision?
This could be one of the biggest election issues at the next but one Federal Election in 2019
And Turnbull,Telstra and News Corp shall be remembered for the Billions wasted on this crap project.
Why didn't they send Christopher Pyne to Computex... He may have learned something...
https://newsroom.intel.com/e
...the transformational impact technology has on industries around the world. Billions of smart and connected devices, new data-rich services and cloud applications fueled by the Internet of Things (IoT) will bring new and exciting experiences to our lives, ushering in the next wave of computing.
As video approaches 80 percent of all Internet traffic*, delivering visual content quickly and efficiently via the cloud is a top priority for service providers.
As an example, Intel showed a 360-degree live-streamed virtual reality jazz concert delivered from the legendary Blue Note Jazz Club in New York to Computex using hardware-assisted 4K video delivery on Intel Xeon E3v5 servers.
And with every experience comes enormous amounts of data. The machine learning revolution is expanding insights across every form of computing. From autonomous driving to media to health, technology is freeing human potential with intensive compute power operating on massive datasets.
Yeah, let's throw some rotting copper at that, and Bob's your VR Uncle...
FTTP deployment, on the other hand, has been running along at a fairly decent clip because they started on the back end for that in 2010 or so.
More to the point, it is actually a much easier deployment from a design perspective...
We are a joke in the international stage when it comes to Internet connectivity. Yet all we see our government do is brush it off as though that is enough to raise our ranking!
We have always been a joke since Dialup / ADSL telstra days. Its this monopolistic company plus the howard (LNP) sell off of telstra that is the cause for today's internet and its substandard in Australia.
Somehow the guys at Telstra thinks that every bit that traverses through the networks have arbitrarily high value like magic dust or something. So they charge like a wounded bull.
Mean while you go overseas, you can download / upload as much as you want. These telcos don't place value on the bits going through, they just want people on it and market share.
This same mindset of giving us crap internet still exists today? why? so they can extort people with business plans.
Meanwhile the world has moved on, the productivity/brains of this country will also move with it overseas and Australia won't get the money. Another few more years of this nonsense, insane housing prices and generally gouging rip off culture. I can tell the young will leave for overseas opportunities.
Innovation, LOL, do the libs even know what it means? Juuubbbs and Graoath. LOL. In their dreams.
Liberal have announced their brand new plan for NBN!
(5 paragraphs of Liberals new, stronger NBN are complaining about Labors NBN)
Just read this. The Chaser could not have done a better parody
For those who have not seen it:
But Labor
But Labor
On track and on budget
growth and jobs
We are also delivering broadband to businesses and homes in our regions. (um, also? OUR regions?)
We deliver SkyMuster (the sat Mal did not want)
But Labor
But Labor
But Labor
"gpon writes...
FTTN delivers a solution faster for the vast majority of people."
LOL yeah right...
What will be the foregone benefits and missed opportunities, and damage to the economy, business, other organisations and the Australian people and workers of all ages, from having FTTN as opposed to something better?
Exactly FTTN is well and truly the master of false economy on a grand scale.
"gpon writes...
FTTN delivers a solution faster for the vast majority of people."
Faster than what????
Hmmm � 5CPK -10 in S.A., RFS 13/5, and so far no-one has been able to get a connection, and have received no feed-back other than a generalised 'the is a problem with the network'. I hopped into the 6CAN [Canning] thread to to get a gist of how they were travelling. It looked a little like the same problems there.
It looks like the LNP dreams of getting a few areas hooked up to FTTN � and not quite enough so that people get an inkling of the contention and back-haul problems that will be coming are back-firing badly.
Hmmm � 5CPK -10 in S.A., RFS 13/5, and so far no-one has been able to get a connection, and have received no feed-back other than a generalised 'the is a problem with the network'.
Sounds like it's only "premises passed" and not actually RFS.
Hmmm � 5CPK -10 in S.A., RFS 13/5, and so far no-one has been able to get a connection, and have received no feed-back other than a generalised 'the is a problem with the network'. I hopped into the 6CAN [Canning] thread to to get a gist of how they were travelling. It looked a little like the same problems there.
I'd be concerned that there is a push to get areas RFS even if they are not ready because (a) it makes the current MTM look better than it actually is and (b) the NBN Co board may get a "bonus" that they actually do not deserve. While both are deceptive conduct, I am pretty sure the last one would be considered a crime.
If the flooding of FttN cabinets does occur with
Will I can tell you now, the fttn cabinets will be completely submerged around here.
Will I can tell you now, the fttn cabinets will be completely submerged around here.
Can't wait to see how the MTM comes out of the other side of the wild weather the east coast of OZ is experiencing this weekend !!
Just a hunch.......terrible !!!!!!!!!
Can't wait to see how the MTM comes out of the other side of the wild weather the east coast of OZ is experiencing this weekend !!
One can only imagine how many MTM workers will be diverted to fixing the nodes and copper over the next month as a result of this weekends East Coast Low(s), and what impact that has on the FTTN build, activations, diagnostics, repairs, fixes and professional installations. It's only going to draw more attention to the NBN/MTM pre-election and highlight the critical role that Government plays in delivering Essential Services, and assisting and leading in times of personal hardship during disaster recovery.
Mally cum lataly can no longer comment as such should b silenced given the conflict of interests he hides so well..
i started a thread for the city of belmont, off the ascot exchange, we are ear marked for fttn yet they seem to keep pissing money down the drain in doing minor repairs instead of overhauling network to be suitable for fttn, fttdp or fttp, they have spent money pissing it down the drain doing nothing in the last 3-4 years it is becoming a standing joke...
Will the history books record it was the Early June 2016 East Coast Low wot won it and turned the lights out for the Federal Coalition, with its reminder of what happens when you mix copper and water,
You have posted in the wrong thread...
With Phg's post I've started a thread titled 'Flooded FttN Nodes' (whrl.pl/ReDBI7).
Will I can tell you now, ...
Good attempt at trying to guess my real name U T C but my name isn't William. ;)
Jav
Good attempt at trying to guess my real name U T C but my name isn't William. ;)
Warning, warning...danger Jav Robinson...;)
Any issues with the caretaker convention on this?
Need to know timeline of contract etc however it is not unwise for Decmil to make an announcement now so as to establish expectations and advice of expenses incurred gearing up for FTTN ..in case Labor win and cancel contracts.....tidy payout can be claimed for 'change of mind' by NBN Co � the Telstra methodology.... get paid for nothing
nd it's not the government as a government owned company, not the government.
Morrow made commitment in Senate Estimates they would follow convention as if a govt dept......
Sounds like it's only "premises passed" and not actually RFS.
No its RFS. Just when you try and sign up � a tech will be booked and an install date arranged.
That day the booking will lapse, you'll be assigned a new date in a few days with the excuse "Network Shortfall". Process repeats in a few days.
As for the claims that FTTN is faster � they are a lie. The rollout stats themselves show that building a full FTTP area is not significantly slower than doing FTTN over an area. We are NOT rolling out FTTN noticeably faster � and that doesn't include areas like the above � which are marked for RFS but clearly aren't.
Need to know timeline of contract etc however it is not unwise for Decmil to make an announcement now so as to establish expectations and advice of expenses incurred gearing up for FTTN
What I found strange about the announcement is that it says Construction activities have commenced with the NSW regional centre of Wagga Wagga. Does this mean that they started work before announcing the agreement?
Not arguing. Just picking up on the points you raise ...
That day the booking will lapse, you'll be assigned a new date in a few days with the excuse "Network Shortfall". Process repeats in a few days.
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
As for the claims that FTTN is faster � they are a lie. The rollout stats themselves show that building a full FTTP area is not significantly slower than doing FTTN over an area. We are NOT rolling out FTTN noticeably faster ...
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
I have dealt with a few of these, the fibre required does not have a path or is too long to reach the premises from the multiport. Usually civil works is required to fix this, that can take months. I have found that if you escalate thru the nbn co itself it tends to get addressed quicker by the contractor.
I am not in the same league as Colin Wynne. But I am a student of electronic music. I would say that the whole article should be shoved down the throats of every LNP senator. If they hadn't already been brainwashed. This is what I have said many times on these forums about MASSIVE files being used in music production.
p.s I have received the Telstra gateway for FTTP. So I have got what Colin has got. Luckily.
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
Could be a myriad of reasons. Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
Not complete sure, that fact is just based off of the build stats.
I have dealt with a few of these, the fibre required does not have a path or is too long to reach the premises from the multiport.
The area in question is an FTTN area, where nbn� claim that the node is RFS but nobody can successfully order a service.
The area in question is an FTTN area, where nbn� claim that the node is RFS but nobody can successfully order a service.
Thanks for the clarification, I have only dealt with it in FTTH activations. Now that's troubling, RFS a node, when it's not ready, now that's one way of meeting targets.
Could be a myriad of reasons. Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
Where I get to is ... if a node is RFS then all the backhaul and power is in place and there's a port for anyone who wants one. If that's not the case then it's not RFS. If it is the case then what can "network shortfall" mean?
Are they declaring nodes RFS when they are not ready?
Not complete sure, that fact is just based off of the build stats.
Yep, I wasn't doubting what you said. I'm just wondering what's going on at the NBNCo that they can't roll out FTTN as fast as they should. The same goes for FTTB. Are they holding back for some reason? For example, have they run out of money?
Where I get to is ... if a node is RFS then all the backhaul and power is in place and there's a port for anyone who wants one. If that's not the case then it's not RFS. If it is the case then what can "network shortfall" mean?
In regards to FTTH rollouts, my communications with the RSP/Nbnoc, vision stream who the contractor was, a network shortfall had to do with the fact that you couldn't get fibre from the multiport to the premises, for some reason. Logical reasoning, you would think that in a FTTN scenario, it would mean their is no fibre to the node. Then why is it RFS?
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
If they roll it out too fast, might they run out of money as the wholesale revenue from activations likely strongly lags behind the rollout expenses.
Are they declaring nodes RFS when they are not ready?
An increasing amount of reported enduser experience suggests that may be the case.
Perhaps there are two factors at play here � a desire to stress that MTM targets have been 'fully met' before the election campaign is over, coupled with an attempt to ensure that not too many people are actually online via MTM.
It would be very embarrassing indeed for the coalition if a significant number of people were to start complaining about lousy MTM service during the election campaign.
So the question is: Has the presentation of the MTM situation been influenced by any political issues?
If they roll it out too fast, might they run out of money as the wholesale revenue from activations likely strongly lags behind the rollout expenses.
Good point. There's also the payment to Telstra for the customer cut-over. The payment to Optus/Telstra could also explain the slow progress on HFC. I reckon you could be onto something here.
Are they declaring nodes RFS when they are not ready?
Not very quick on the uptake today CMOT? :P
Yep, I wasn't doubting what you said. I'm just wondering what's going on at the NBNCo that they can't roll out FTTN as fast as they should. The same goes for FTTB. Are they holding back for some reason? For example, have they run out of money?
I'm guessing that bringing a clapped out old voice network up to the standards for FTTN � is extremely difficult. It was never designed for this.
Laying fibre isn't as hard as everyone believes it is. In Saint Mary's Adelaide (where a few issues are highlighted atm) its mostly overhead wiring, and that would be extremely easy to simply drop in the splitter and wire a whole street.
In fact, doing that would be so easy, I do not see what benefit FTTdp could possibly provide.
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster. What's going on here?
Man hours is the biggest cost so how many man hours would be needed to see if the local copper is fit for use, and remediation as needed? Then going back a few times for every incident of poor speeds? In fibre's case, as long as there is room in the pipes (or using thinner fibre) you save time by just running fibre through the conduits.
This is the throwaway society making things cheaper to replace than repair but on a massive scale.
Could be a myriad of reasons. Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
Exactly. I think it may be an euphemism for saying your connection does not work. It begs the question of how they determine a node is RFS. They could not have tested all the copper lines to all premises on the node.
In Saint Mary's Adelaide (where a few issues are highlighted atm)
On Node 5CPK-10-3 there are 217, with approximately the same number of "issues" on each of the other 19 nodes on 5CPK 10 � the "issue" being that no-one has yet been connected that anyone in the forum knows off.
It could be that only whirlpool contributors are missing out as we are most likely to complain about what is delivered, but I'd need a whole aluminium suit to be dressed to make that claim :-/
Does this mean that they started work before announcing the agreement?
To be honest IMO from observations on Perth streets there would be little doubt Telstra has been doing works for FTTN since late 2013. Lots of yellow barriers popped up in a number of locations and left there for months. There was extensive fibre laid from Cannington Exchange etc etc. Lets not forget that FTTN would appear to be little more than an upgrade from Telstra's Tophat tech. That's well prior to revised Telstra agreement too....
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
Can only mean spin for network not completed yet/not ready. NBN do not have services that can be connected at that point in time obviously.
RFS and/or premises passed stats would appear to be counted but services can't be connected.... lies lies and more lies IMO
Can only mean spin for network not completed yet/not ready.
That sounds like it.
It's a bit amusing, if like me you have that sense of humour � Turnbull in opposition never ceased excoriating NBN Co for designating areas as RFS before they actually were, and now his nbn� seems to be doing exactly the same thing.
RFS and/or premises passed stats would appear to be counted but services can't be connected...
But they have met all their targets!
It would be churlish to suggest there might be a little, er, imagination being applied here, surely?
I'm guessing that bringing a clapped out old voice network up to the standards for FTTN � is extremely difficult. It was never designed for this.
Yeah, but this is true overseas as well. Is our copper worse to the extent FTTN is not feasible but they don't want to admit it before the election? You could be right. They're going to have to face up to it soon though.
Man hours is the biggest cost so how many man hours would be needed to see if the local copper is fit for use, and remediation as needed? Then going back a few times for every incident of poor speeds?
I think checking the copper comes down to connecting a customer and seeing what happens. From what I've read here, if there's a problem it may or may not get fixed.
It begs the question of how they determine a node is RFS.
You're not on your own with that question :)
Yeah, but this is true overseas as well.
Most overseas countries with clapped out copper are not futilely attempting to retrofit FTTN.
They are doing the sensible, logical, correct, agile and innovative thing and installing FTTP or FTTdp/FTTB.
From what I've read here, if there's a problem it may or may not get fixed.
Or it may get duck-shoved seemingly for ever, in the apparent hope that the enduser will get fed up and give up.
Most overseas countries with clapped out copper are not futilely attempting to retrofit FTTN.
Except the UK. And even they have admitted its a complete mistake.
and their housing density is so different to ours. sharing walls with neighbours in streets where the houses look near identical and are 1/3 the width of Aussie house, obviously no side yards for a lot of them (being joined!) .
Even if the UK was giving FTTN top marks the difference in average distance from exchange or the efficiency of how many people you can run off a node would be cause for concern
Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
If the entire SAM is like this then it should not be classified as RFS. As I understand it, the trigger is ~90% of premises must be able to order (and have installed) a service before a SAM can be declared RFS. A quick look at recent FttN activations show SAMs ranging from 1000 to 4200 premises.
See http://www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker/recent/bf
A quick investigation of the recent activations, suggest the entire SAM 5CPK-10 is classed SC10. Quite a few of the others from this list return the same result. The issue is not isolated to FttN SAMs.
I suspect there is an issue with the source data jxeeno is getting.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 targets.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 targets.
They shouldn't call an area ready for service if it isn't just to meet they're targets so they don't look bad.
They are doing the sensible, logical, correct, agile and innovative thing and installing FTTP or FTTdp/FTTB.
I was trying to keep away from this argument, not that there is one really, and focus on what's happening with FTTN. As far as I can see there are two possibilities: the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable and/or the NBNCo is running out of money.
Whatever it is, they're not going to tell us before the election. It will have to come out after the election though whichever side wins.
They shouldn't call an area ready for service if it isn't just to meet their targets so they don't look bad.
No they shouldn't, no matter how much political pressure may be being applied behind the scenes.
This would be a particularly egregious practice for nbn� to follow, given the previous never-ceasing Turnbull rampage against NBN Co for allegedly doing exactly the same thing.
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
When I had my FTTP service activated this was reported. When I spoke to my RSP (iiNet), they said there was something about the NTD serial number not being recognised. I was asked to check it. As the installers had left the boxes for me to dispose of I scanned the serial number on the box and discovered there was a S on the front as there were two barcodes � the part number and the serial number. The Part number had a P for checking that was to be discarded and the serial number an S.
I called iiNet back and they confirmed the number provided when the installers scanned the data through they included the S.
Once corrected, the service was activated within minutes.
So, when network shortfall is reported, it covers a multitude of sins. Maybe it's to allow the system to report a successful connection, but not actually place any demands on it?
This would be a particularly egregious practice for nbn� to follow, given the previous never-ceasing Turnbull rampage against NBN Co for allegedly doing exactly the same thing.
Yeah well if it comes out that his doing the same thing, all he has to say is Labor did it first, we should be allowed a chance too. Bunch of hypocrites. You know they say 51-49 is close but if thats the case, we clearly see Shorten is unpopular compared to turnbull but with the way things are going i won't be surprised if Labor does somehow win this. Hopefully they can reveal everything the Coalition has done to the NBN and somehow fix it. But that would need a miracle
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster.
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
I was trying to keep away from this argument
That's certainly the impression given.
two possibilities: the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable and/or the NBNCo is running out of money.
There's a third one, which only arises due to the extreme personnel changes and other politicisation of nbn� which have recently occurred.
That would be that, as suspected, much of the CAN is shot and should be replaced to deliver anywhere near the QOS standards that were airily promised as an assured part of the MTM. So now the whole MTM miasma is being made to mark time until the election is safely out of the way.
But why isn't it faster?
More visits for the tech, replacing of degraded copper, people complaining when they don't get increased speeds.
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
And that data looks compelling.
But apparently we aren't supposed to know that. Perhaps it's an operational matter!
;-)
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
Yep, but is he counting premises reported as RFS but that can't order a service? It seems that's what the NBNCo is doing.
That's certainly the impression given.
It should be possible to discuss the issues with the FTTN part of the MTM without being sidetracked.
That would be that, as suspected, much of the CAN is shot and should be replaced to deliver anywhere near the QOS standards that were airily promised as an assured part of the MTM.
Is that different from "the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable"?
But they have met all their targets!
Here is my take on the grades of aiming at targets.
1. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, aim, release, and hit the center of the target.
2. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, aim, release, and hit the somewhere on the target.
3. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, don't aim, release, and miss the target.
4. Stand but do nothing.
5. Sit around and complain that it's hate speech to be expected to shoot the arrow.
Overall I'd say that MTMCo haven't done better that #3.
Perhaps it's an operational matter!
I think so because they certainly have been doing a job on us.
And that data looks compelling.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Imagine the clarity that could be provided on this project if this approach was taken by nbnTM.
Yep, but is he counting premises reported as RFS but that can't order a service? It seems that's what the NBNCo is doing.
The data provided at www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker (formerly mynbn.info) is derived from a number of unofficial sources (as I understand it).
It beggars belief that nbnTM would be headed down this path. If it comes to light that nbnTM is declaring SAMs RFS when significant numbers of premises can't order successfully order a service, heads should be on the line, all the way up to the Minister.
politics aside, there's no reason that Labor shouldn't win and then expose these criminals. After the way they treated Conroy (regardless of what you may think of him) I think Dreyfus will go directly after Fizzbull'ss litigious ass.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 pre-election targets.
FTFY :)
Be wary of the poster posers where they do a selective rollout of hardware and have sweet fa infrastructure in place, typical politician window dressing.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Not really: mature adults expect to be paid well for paced work output whilst the young are still enthusiastic enough to put in extra unpaid effort for their own interest. They are quickly dissuaded of this approach though by the establishment. It's a real tragedy, because the young show what society could be like when money is not the be-all-end-all driving force.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Interestingly I was at a seminar around a month ago where one of the speakers was from NBNCo. When people asked about the rollout, the speaker recommended that people look at MyNBN.info as it has better and more up to date information than the NBNCo roll out maps!
I think it may be an euphemism for saying your connection does not work.
Network shortfall is simply 'spin'....fro no service available....
The reason for spin is to hide failure to deliver and most likely hide the RFS stats are claimed without actually being built....
the trigger is ~90% of premises must be able to order (and have installed) a service before a SAM can be declared RFS
It would appear that NBN Co have determined that the infrastructure does not need to be completed to commence ordering with the RSP ...you just have to wait a long(er) time ie 'Network Shorfall status" is the interim period between concept design and actual service availablity....but NBN CO can claim the RFS stats for senior management and pollies to broadcast achievement of target forecasts.... /S (that's a big /S)
Just another example of how the Lib's NBN policy is possibly the worst commercial decision of all time...
From the Labor Thread � a user has a voice and ADSL fault in an FTTN area. Telstra check to the pillar, all good. Now NBN needs to investigate and fix the pillar to user fault.
Telstra are laughing all the way to the bank! Free maintenance!
But it also highlights � what happens to people who need a phoneline? The elderly, the medical priority? What do they do when FTTN comes around?
What do they do when FTTN comes around?
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less.
I think Dreyfus will go directly after Fizzbull'ss litigious ass.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a reaction at least to the news today that 80+% of Australians want an ICAC type body created at Federal level to deal with corruption at that level....
A promise from Labor to create that with NBN at the forefront would be a good start....
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less.
With FTTP there is a solution built into the network design (and Telstra hold a contract to transition phone only customers to FTTP, including going into homes and rewiring existing phone points to the UNI-V)... with FTTN it's in the too hard basket.
oops missed half the post I responded to
In the case of Telstra it is Murphy's law of the patch and to deny there is an issue with its infrastructure and implement the bare necessity to keep the copper functioning keeping the twisties network in place as long as possible...
Just another example of how the Lib's NBN policy is possibly the worst commercial decision of all time...
From the Labor Thread � a user has a voice and ADSL fault in an FTTN area. Telstra check to the pillar, all good. Now NBN needs to investigate and fix the pillar to user fault.
Telstra are laughing all the way to the bank! Free maintenance!
So if you had flaky ADSL2+ from the beginning. When your area is RFS. Never sign up to FTTN. Keep hassling telstra for line remediation until its fixed. Hopefully they raise it with MTMCo and it gets fixed.
Then reassess whether its worthwhile to cut over to FTTN. By then if your line was fixed you should probably see a slightly better ADSL2+ service to decide whether its worth it to switch.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a reaction at least to the news today that 80+% of Australians want an ICAC type body created at Federal level to deal with corruption at that level....
Both major political parties have stated at various times that they don't want a federal ICAC...might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
Not sure if this has been posted, but is a good reflection of the differences between the original NBN and the Coalitions MTM.
might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
So true and for LNP the NBN would be top of the list....we certainly wouldn't be getting the rubbish we get IMO
It may become a political tool however, they would get more disciplined, wouldn't they?
might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
Even more reason to do it.
If we are left with no politicians then so be it.
LNP masters of a con and fiction.
I watched Turnbull today stand in front of the banner material and keep referring to the Economic Plan time and time again.
With memories of the pre 2013 NBN Plan I thought I'd check what was in The Economic Plan with reference to NBN. I went on the LNP website and couldn't find an actual document called the Economic Plan but found an item that listed the items on it (with donate tabs on each issue. The above Fifield tweet is all that is there �
If this is the ECONOMIC PLAN for NBN then it cannot be called a plan. If the whole lot (perhaps six pages at best(?) is the overall Economic Plan then it is a nothing document IMO. If the public have a perception that it contains anything of substance they are sadly misguided. It is worse than Abbott's was and we know what that was worthwith regards to implementation......de ja vue???
If we are left with no politicians then so be it.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
Something like the original Overland Telegraph line I believe was basicaly built by the the Industry Experts at the time. So it can be done. I would think there would be more recent examples of decent infrastructure being built without any political footballing.
If you look at The Sydney Harbour Bridge, Copper Can, Snowy Mountain Scheme etc. the thing they have in common is that the Liberals all thought they weren't needed.
Just like the nbn � history will show how wrong they were.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
I can, it was the original NBN, or was there a /s that i missed? forgive me but im sick :/
Im hoping that this swing towards indis will put FTTP back on the table, if Labor cant get up.
I thought I'd check what was in The Economic Plan with reference to NBN.
the plan??? did it go something like this? jobs and growth, jobs and growth, jobs and growth, LABOR BAAADDDD NBN BBAAAAADDDD jobs and growth... blah
I loved the way the caretaker PM use Engineers Australia to sell his pseudo-innovation plan by trying to piggy-back of the Engineers Australia branding, all the while doing everything he can to ensure that Australia remains an online connected backwater!
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
"Support us or no funding for you".....
Im hoping that this swing towards indis will put FTTP back on the table, if Labor cant get up.
That will only work if it gets the ALP to complete the NBN as originally designed, or for the LNP to abandon its stance and embrace the original NBN plan.
The hard truth is that a handful of independents is not going to change anything. They might hold some sway for a period of time and be an annoyance but ultimately they will not change the way political parties run government.
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
Not, only was it disappointing from that point of view but a lack of mention to anything like NBN infrastructure etc being part of 'exciting' future, the verbal garbage and over statement re girls girls girls was embarrassing. I could imaging most young girls/women hearing his spin would have, as presumably intelligent people, walked away saying 'what a dork..." (or the equivalent these days ). Where was the substance?...just fluff, EA would be disappointed no doubt.
NBN is a critical part to their future domestically and internationally. Already a large part of engineering for big Miners and Oil and Gas is done overseas, at least some capability to communicate with Australia would be appreciated. The stuff that moves head offices overseas....brain drain overseas is not what these girls/young women want to hear.
That will only work if it gets the ALP to complete the NBN as originally designed, or for the LNP to abandon its stance and embrace the original NBN plan.
Unfortunately it's too late for that, unless they plan to rip out all the nodes & associated equipment that have/being installed in the FTTN areas.
Like the Irish Government are about to legislate, when is the Australian Federal Coalition going to change their NBN/MTM policy, NBN Strategy, and SOE to NBNCo, to provide a legally enforceable right for home and business owners to be provided with minimum speeds of at least 25Mbps (including during peak hours) from their RSP's?
At the moment their is no right or even guarantees of minimum speeds that Australian homes and business must be able to get for their broadband 24*7.
https://www.siliconrepublic.
unlike the UK, which has stopped at 10Mbps as a minimum standard, the USO will need to serve home and business owners in Ireland for the next 30 or 40 years and that 30Mbps is the baseline.
�We want to ensure people have access to broadband as a right,� Naughten said. �I want it as an enforceable right.�
Where was the substance?...just fluff, EA would be disappointed no doubt.
Exactly. It was certainly cringeworthy.
The disappointing thing is that EA is a Non-Profit Organisation and gets $0 funding from any government. They did not need it, but have allowed themselves to be used.
Unfortunately it's too late for that, unless they plan to rip out all the nodes & associated equipment that have/being installed in the FTTN areas.
Well, if Australia wants to be taken seriously, it will have to.
The politicians talk about leaving future generations to pay the debt. Well what about leaving them that debt anyway and then the requirement that THEY will have to correct things????
They (indies) might hold some sway for a period of time and be an annoyance but ultimately they will not change the way political parties run government.
Well if Windsor gets in he is pro NBN clearly as are any Greens and Wilkie I believe is pissed off at what happened to Tasmania's promise for FTTP, so there are 4 votes to add to ALP. There could well be a couple of Xenophon's succeed as well s there could be 6 indies favouring NBN. Add Katter to the mix who probably wouldn't support NBN... Possible 7 indies.
LNP need 76 seats to govern in own right and (ref ABC Calculator ) 50.1% Lib vote is minimum LNP need to retain power with all predicted 4 indies supporting them. 50.6% Lab vote give them govt in their own right and 50.2% Lab has indies involved. That's with only 4 indies predicted by ABC. By current polls even a 50/50 vote may save NBN. There are variables that can throw that out like the $1.6B LNP have already thrown as pork barrel to marginal seats during election campaign mostly in South Aust/Qld.
On those figures though the senate looks like it could be worse for LNP and how that affects NBN depends, but HoR is real key for NBN. Interestingly, the joint sitting due to Double Dissolution may backfire with likely minority in overall total to LNP. I'd bet it won't happen at all......egg on face...unless LNP have majority.
If you look at The Sydney Harbour Bridge, Copper Can, Snowy Mountain Scheme etc. the thing they have in common is that the Liberals all thought they weren't needed.
Just like the nbn � history will show how wrong they were.
I have never voted for the LNP and will never vote them in my lifetime. Leopard never changes their spot, they are anti-everything, attack labor, attack NBN, attack students, attack pensioners and attack the poor. One thing they support Businesses and Big businesses (aka, their rich mates).
But when you ask them to come up with something and execute. They make things worse, setting us backwards as a nation. The MTM is one of the biggest examples. Its time for the nation to get educated and actually vote them out for good. Their values do not align with fair go Australia, everyone deserves a fair go.
Their plan and repeating. "Jabs" and "Glooat". Yep, give labor a few uppercut jabs, and gloat how well they are managing the economy. Except everything points to the contrary.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
This seems like a simpsons episode if i recall correctly... They had issues with their opinions but eh would be enjoyable to see
the plan??? did it go something like this? jobs and growth, jobs and growth, jobs and growth, LABOR BAAADDDD NBN BBAAAAADDDD jobs and growth... blah
Funny how Labors NBN could provide jobs
Funny how Labors NBN could provide jobs
They aren't jobs powered by coal though � everyone knows that green tech/the internet aren't real!
A real NBN could provide so many innovative jobs � but the LNP don't want to invest in something that displeases Rupert.
I was over in the Central Coast thread with a bit of a discussion happening about nodes being declared RFS yet no one can seem to connect due to the mystery "network shortfall"
will just pick on area and list the nodes in it with connection stats courtesy of Finder
you can do your own analysis starting here http://www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker/sa/2WOY
ADA ID Technology Premises # Serviceable^ Connected^
2WOY-13-01 copper 291 291 (High) 20 (Low)
2WOY-13-02 copper 195 194 (High) 20 (Low)
2WOY-13-03 copper 202 202 (High) 13 (Low)
2WOY-13-04 copper 179 179 (High) 23 (Low)
2WOY-13-05 copper 106 106 (High) 6 (Low)
2WOY-13-06 copper 316 315 (High) 25 (Low)
2WOY-13-07 copper 139 139 (High) 10 (Low)
2WOY-13-08 copper 117 117 (High) 0 (None)
2WOY-13-09 copper 40 40 (High) 2 (None)
2WOY-13-10 copper 101 101 (High) 3 (None)
2WOY-13-11 copper 81 81 (High) 10 (Low)
2WOY-13-13 copper 68 68 (High) 0 (None)
not sure of the dates of the data, but the numbers look outstanding not sure if I need to add this /s
I was over in the Central Coast thread with a bit of a discussion happening about nodes being declared RFS yet no one can seem to connect due to the mystery "network shortfall"
After looking through a significant number of SAMs in the recent activations list I am pretty sure the data jxeeno is using is lagging reality.
Every SAM I checked on the recent activation list with a RFS date later than April 1 2016 returned a SC0 / SC10 value of 100%. Perhaps this data is only updated quarterly in the sources he is using?
Now this doesn't address the 'network shortfall' issue, which may be related to another issue I have discovered. I simply had not read any of the Service Class designations other than the ones I was directly interested in.
Service Class 11- the location is serviceable by copper, copper lead-in required
EDIT: I forgot to add the redundant WTF???
From your 2WOY serving area you can see the following.
Service Class 11 = 8,681 (28%)
This information does not come from an official nbnTM website, however, it is my understanding that the underlying data is from nbnTM indirectly via 'unknown sources'.
however, it is my understanding that the underlying data is from nbnTM indirectly via 'unknown sources.'
AFP RAID !!!
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less
No, there is no such problem with FTTP switch-over. When I got FTTP, the fibre was physically connected for about three weeks before NBN and the ISP got it actually working. In the mean time I still had a working ADSL and phone. It was only when the FTTP connection was operational (green light on) that I switched my router over. No disruption of any services!
Duplicate � Sorry.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need...
That would have been the NBN, as planned and commenced by NBN Co.
'An nbn', aka MTM, sounds more like a Turnbull perversion, as proposed to be delivered by his nbn�.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
Wait, I remember this one time, prior to 2013, when they did exactly that...Or wake me up 'cause I'm dreaming.
But it also highlights � what happens to people who need a phoneline? The elderly, the medical priority? What do they do when FTTN comes around?
According to nbn, they should get a Telstra mobile. If they have a Medtronic Carelink style product, they should exchange it for the 3G version (only an additional $50/month to your health provider)
If you have a fall alert device, then that is another 3G service also.
nbn have stated that voip over FTTN is unreliable.
nbn have stated that voip over FTTN is unreliable.
Ah hmm jeez where have i heard that VOIP IS reliable... hmm i think the first word began with a F and the last word started with a H. Ah yes Fibre to the Home.
So many services we will be missing out on :(
According to nbn, they should get a Telstra mobile.
ooops is this another "kick back" for the free copper?
Interesting the Q+A in Tamworth on rural issues is repeating returning to the NBN.
And Windsor (yay!) stood up and said "Do it once, do it right, do it with fibre".
Plenty of NBN discussion on Q & A tonight. Barnaby Joyce and Tony Windsor with others. Subject has come up a number of times and Barnbay is the lone voice in the room. He rattled out the $30billion more, 8 years more, 25/5 is enough, noone has ordered more than 100/40, etc almost all in one sentence.
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
edit:
no comments for ages then three in a minute :)
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
It shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions. Windsor is right to say do it once etc... It's the only way it can be done properly in these areas. If they get FTTN, they won't get FTTP for decades, if at all. FTTP had the potential to fill in a lot of holes in services in terminal Australia. Windsor needs to keep pushing.
Subject has come up a number of times and Barnbay is the lone voice in the room. He rattled out the $30billion more, 8 years more, 25/5 is enough, noone has ordered more than 100/40, etc almost all in one sentence.
The audience is certainly asking all the right questions this time. I really do wish that someone would raise Barnabys previous support for FTTP and his claim labor stole his policy.
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
Where can i watch this piece of footage, would love to see it.
Where can i watch this piece of footage, would love to see it.
hopefully it should be up on iView tomorrow
edit:- and here is the link http://iview.abc.net.au/progr
It shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions.
It always has been important. I was going to say Tony Windsor is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool but I think it would be more accurate to say Barnaby Joyce is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool.
Windsor is right to say do it once etc... It's the only way it can be done properly in these areas.
Possibly. I don't like ruling out the use of FTTB/dp in MDUs to speed up the roll out. Then come back and do FTTP in those MDUs later. I think that stands in all areas.
If they get FTTN, they won't get FTTP for decades, if at all.
FTTN is not an interim solution on the way to FTTP. The only place I think it might have is in regional towns that are not getting FTTP where exchange-based VDSL might be a good solution to take the load off wireless.
It always has been important. I was going to say Tony Windsor is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool but I think it would be more accurate to say Barnaby Joyce is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool.
Everyone made Barnaby look like an idiot. He even got the tomato happening at some stages he was so flustered. I just wish someone would have nailed him about his previous advocacy of FTTP. There would be no comeback from that, and the room would have given him a serve.
Possibly. I don't like ruling out the use of FTTB/dp in MDUs to speed up the roll out. Then come back and do FTTP in those MDUs later. I think that stands in all areas. MDUs are largely irrelevant in the regions. The majority of premises are single dwellings. Windsor gets a lot of support for his stance for good reason.
FTTN is not an interim solution on the way to FTTP.
It needs to be done once, and done right.
obviously Joyce has a selective memory and has seldom bothered to research his original policy trying to change tact in fttp support
obviously Joyce has a selective memory
Well he can't say FTTP has any merit as that would put a huge kink in the LNP campaign. His only hope of staying deputy PM is to toe the party line. Just goes to show how many scruples most politicians have.
toeing the party line means the commitment of political suicide and more than likely face a gaol cell if not the firing squad for treason against the country...
sad to say i suspect Malcolm will be leaving the country to remove himself from facing any commission regarding his time former opspokesman on comms, to eventually comms minister now within the seat of prime minister which he was not elected for and passing the same fate labor did previous election cycle they should went to the polls when the fool took office..
i doubt joyce has even looked at the commissioned papers regarding the current state of australias communication network, never mind sully his own fingers of malcs farce without himself liable supporting this political pissing contest of factually fraudulent facts...
It was a great episode � lots if questions about the nbn,
It shows it is an election issue.
What you wont read in the unaustralian.
Q&A: Barnaby Joyce and Tony Windsor trade blows on mining and national broadband network
A woman from a farm 20km from Tamworth asked why she had telecommunications �equivalent of a third world� with no TV reception, mobile and no fixed line.
The loudest cheers came for Windsor�s slogan on the National Broadband Network, �do it once, do it right, do it with fibre�.
t was a great episode � lots if questions about the nbn,
Darn, I didn't know it was on and even if it was I didn't really know "NBN" was going to be mentioned in Q&A for once.
Anyway I haven't got time now to watch the Q&A Video right now but it looks like the latest one was uploaded to Iview 9 hours ago. Check it out if you missed it like i did.
http://iview.abc.net.au/prog
Have a read of the comments too. When I last looked probably half the comments were about the NBN. None of them were favourable to Joyce's stance.
Have a read of the comments too. When I last looked probably half the comments were about the NBN
More than half.. A big issue in new England.
Comments said : bye bye Barnaby..
no such problem with FTTP switch-over
Understood, The switch over is fine, but what about after? I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP.
The loudest cheers came for Windsor�s slogan on the National Broadband Network, �do it once, do it right, do it with fibre�.
I was a little annoyed that Jones cut the responses short on this.
Nevertheless, I got a sense there is an elephant in the room and it is about to get upset.
just had my voice phone line fixed after reporting a fault
- Yesterday Telstra checked exchange to the pillar, then as it was ok tho there they put a job into nbn� to fix the pillar to network boundary point
- worker wearing a nbn� vest turns up and starts checking the fault after having done some prep work at the pilllar by replacing the jumpers, removing a "battery" and some other tidying up.
- worker is actually employed by Telstra
- I am informed if the fault is in my aerial lead in he cannot replace it as neither nbn� workers or Telstra workers now have access to poles to work on aerial junctions or anchor points due to the transfer of ownership of the assets (this could be due to the privatisation of the poles and wires in NSW) and NO agreement between nbn� and AUSGRID for climbing poles all that work has to be scheduled and done from a bucket truck at a later date
- luckily my fault is between the point of attachment onto the house and the first socket
oh what a wonderful scheme Dear Leader Malcolm Turnbull has given us, especially for those of us with FTTN in an AUSGRID area and maybe other areas as well
the man is so egotistical that he even has his initials on the nbn� branding, of course either in keeping with his plan the initials are backwards or are like you do a school roll, surname first
just had my voice phone line fixed after reporting a fault
Faster and cheaper � YEAH RIGHT!
What a shambles!
If we were getting FTTP it wouldn't matter � we could roll it out and there would't be any issues with lead-ins etc.
staying deputy PM is to toe the party line
Not quite � that position goes to the leader of the Nationals in a Liberal/silage coalition, so it's not the Liberal line he needs to follow. What the voters in Tamworth need to ask themselves is where *were* the National party when Barnardy's preferred option was being lied about then dismantled by Clownshoes and Lord Verdigris...:-(
Understood, The switch over is fine, but what about after? I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP.
It was a storm in a tea cup.
I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP
In my case battery backup is provided with the NTD. I think this became optional for later fttp installations. Like most people I use VOIP and not the UNI-V port for my phone connection. For emergency calls during long power failures I would use my mobile. This has not been necessary in my three years of FTTP (no power failures and no network failures). I would think that medical monitoring could be switched to mobile when necessary, but am not sure. For me and the vast majority of fttp users � no curfuffel whatsoever!
Not NBN directly but this sums up the "your home doesn't need those speeds" argument -
EEF members' main concerns for broadband are that it's cost effective, reliable, and resilient, as well as future proof. Speed doesn't factor into it nearly as much.
Full report �
more than likely face a gaol cell if not the firing squad for treason against the country...
Ridiculous hyperbole like that really detracts from your points
Stats are in on most important things for voters.
It was a storm in a tea cup.
Indeed, but there was a lot of noise about it.
no curfuffel whatsoever!
It was at the time. I'd prefer not to have a home phone at all.
Their plan and repeating. "Jabs" and "Glooat". Y
Just use "Slobs and sloth." inste�d of "Jobs and growth.
Indeed, but there was a lot of noise about it.
So alot of noise about a solved probelm. However: there is no noise about the Telstra HFC not having any battery backup at all � and no plans to install it. And this will be a significant part of the population. What happens to medical priority in these areas?
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
�It�s a shame we weren�t able to show Senator Fifield some of the success stories unfolding here for those businesses that have already been connect to the NBN,� he said.
Fong continued to say that those parts of Ballarat that have been provided with the high-speed fibre-based FTTP version have already benefitted greatly from the NBN rollout.
�Businesses there are now able to undertake tasks never before possible,� Fong said. �The parts of our city that have FTTP provide a benchmark for operational delivery of high speed NBN services across regional Australia.�
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
Chair of the group, George Fong, said he was �bemused� that the Minister did not make the time to catch up with local stakeholders, despite being in his hometown of Ballarat at the time, and following multiple requests for a meeting.
�This would have been the ideal opportunity for the minister to speak first hand to people who need fast broadband and have the evidence to prove it, and to hear their stories not the filtered reports ministers traditionally receive�, Fong said.
Ahhh but Fifield would have had to listen to the inconvenient truth if he'd attended, wouldn't he.
Ahhh but Fifield would have had to listen to the inconvenient truth if he'd attended, wouldn't he.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
They keep banging on about cost and time overruns and yet their own network has these.
People don't care about this � all they want is working internet fast enough to last well into the future.
FTTN cannot give us this.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
It certainly is. There are lots of angry internet users out there who have woken up to Turnbull and is fraudband con.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
Just finished watching Q&A from last night.
The LNP seem to be ignoring the groundswell of support for a proper FTTP nbn.
Let's hope people back it up, when it's time to vote!
So alot of noise about a solved probelm
Yes, a lot of noise 5+ years ago, sheesh where were you guys then?
Just saw MT announce the next debate will be streamed on news.com.au and Facebook.
Somehow, this could backfire with the pathetic NBN Internet speeds being experienced!
Yes, a lot of noise 5+ years ago, sheesh where were you guys then?
I was here.. However, it was always planned to have battery backup available � which made the arguments seem nonsensical.
Now � for most, its not even going to be an option.. Wait until my die hard liberal voting family find out that they are going to have to forkout moolah to come up with a solution for my Grandmothers Call Alert system. Its battery backed up, but the network its going to be connected to wont be.
Just finished watching Q&A from last night.
The LNP seem to be ignoring the groundswell of support for a proper FTTP nbn.
Let's hope people back it up, when it's time to vote!
It really is beginning to seem the libs are too proud to admit they made a mistake with fttn and will hold to the script, even at the expense of the election.
edit:
no comments for ages then three in a minute :)
I'd bet those NBN leakages might draw a comment from Joyce to Jones as he walked out which might have taken the form of ....how's your ABC budget looking Tony.....? Could get a lot worse you know...I'm in a positon of influence, got mates in high places you know (as he reminded everyone a few times) ...
t shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions.
And the LNP are clearly not listening, certainly not about NBN, from Joyce's answers.
And the LNP are clearly not listening, certainly not about NBN, from Joyce's answers.
Joyce has a problem with his perceptions � Turnbull.
Turnbull has a problem with his perceptions � the liberal parties' right wing members.
Labor and LIberal/National parties have a problem � the two party preferred system.
Tony Windor's closing comment said it all. "From 1901, for the first 20 years of the federal government, we had no parties and everything worked fine". (So did the Gillard hung Parliament � more legislation passed than any other.)
Get behind the independents � but not so far behind as to render them useless.
�Businesses there are now able to undertake tasks never before possible,� Fong said. �The parts of our city that have FTTP provide a benchmark for operational delivery of high speed NBN services across regional Australia.
�It�s a shame we weren�t able to show Senator Fifield some of the success stories unfolding here for those businesses that have already been connect to the NBN,�
If Fifield doesn't see or hear it then it doesn't exist...right?
Chair of the group, George Fong, said he was �bemused� that the Minister did not make the time to catch up with local stakeholders, despite being in his hometown of Ballarat at the time, and following multiple requests for a meeting.
This confirms the 'small target' strategy of the LNP across the board. Residents of Ballarat and surrounds should be reading in their local papers and seeing on TV media that Fifield squibbed the opportunity to tell them why FTTN/MTM is so good for them and not FTTP...
Getting the FTTP message to electors is the major problem...
On the matter about having a fixed line phone with FTTP instead of using mobile, I want to speak of my own experience.
Yes, I could use mobile, but I don't like using it. I find the service patchy and often is hard to hear. I have had several mobile phones and haven't found one I like using. I have it up as loud as it goes on speaker and it's not good enough.
There is also an issue of calling some company or government service and being placed on call waiting for 30-60 minutes. It's a pain to have to hold the mobile close enough to hear when I finally get someone to talk to. Whereas using the fixed line I can use the speaker phone, which is loud enough to be heard and I don't have to hold it to my ear. Also, I can get the fixed line call rate much cheaper than using the mobile in this way, which charges continuously.
This may seem like silly piffle to others but it matters to me, and it's why I always option a VOIP service when I move into a rental with FTTP. The main pest is finding the owner has had the NTD placed in the garage where it's useless and I get the expense of having cabling run into the house.
Just saw MT announce the next debate will be streamed on news.com.au and Facebook.
Somehow, this could backfire with the pathetic NBN Internet speeds being experienced!
Lame excuse for not going on Q&A etc, wants to present an 'innovative' debate....
Now, if everyone goes online at the same time and everyone gets bbbbuuuuuffff ......eeeeerrrreeeeedddd that could be pretty embarrassing eh?
No doubt a moderator will vet online questions and those asking... 'why can't I follow the debate because of buffering'... won't get through....
Tony Windor's closing comment said it all. "From 1901, for the first 20 years of the federal government, we had no parties and everything worked fine".
It does appear to me that the party system is a significant problem. I see the same thing existing from what I know about the US and UK as well. When the parties establish dominance it means MPs are less responsive to the electorate and power is controlled by a few hidden controllers of party policy.
We are further handicapped in Australia by the two party preferred system, in that even if you put an independent or small party as #1, if that one doesn't get enough votes your vote will go to whichever big party is next in line on your ballot. As a result Liberal or Labor still get the vote, even if you don't want them to.
If Fifield doesn't see or hear it then it doesn't exist...right?
see no fibre
speak no fibre
say no fibre
the 3 Liberal monkeys
sadly backpaw i have read past the political spiel of the last 20 odd years, to the point i already know anyone riding on the curt tails of turnbull will not see office if by some miracle the lnp retain offfice if or when the federal royal commission is held i suspect a lot of lnp party faithful will face the docks..
6CAN customers are getting lucky... thanks to failure it seems.
There's quite a few getting free upgrades...must be election time !! Must keep customers happy at all cost.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
It does appear to me that the party system is a significant problem.
Should ban party politics. It doesn't work. To much power play, corruption and abuse .
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
We are further handicapped in Australia by the two party preferred system, in that even if you put an independent or small party as #1, if that one doesn't get enough votes your vote will go to whichever big party is next in line on your ballot. As a result Liberal or Labor still get the vote, even if you don't want them to.
This is why you have to work out who will be the last two in the battle for the seat and make sure you put the one you do not want to get in LAST. Don't worry about how to vote cards.
There is nothing more sobering for a politician that to lose his/her seat.
The NBN is such a way of getting the candidates to start listening.
to the point i already know anyone riding on the curt tails of turnbull will not see office if by some miracle the lnp retain offfice if or when the federal royal commission is held i suspect a lot of lnp party faithful will face the docks..
I sincerely hope this is true.
http://www.buddeblog.com.au/
We are spending close to $60 billion dollars on our national digital economy infrastructure and we need to do it wisely and effectively.
This has nothing to do with doing things cheaper and faster; as a matter of fact I would argue for slowing it down, to make sure we do it right.
The fact that the real questions regarding the validity of the MtM cannot be questioned also became clear in a recent report that Analysys Mason wrote for the ACCC. It came to the conclusion that the MtM approach is doable and deliverable within the context of the cheaper and faster policy of the government. But the research company had been explicitly forbidden to take other technologies into account. It is like investigating the road system between Sydney and Melbourne but not taking the freeways into account.
When you look at the extent of what Analysys Mason recently recommended to the Irish Government with their NBP, you'll get an idea of some of what is clearly missing from the current NBN/MTM plans.
Suggest everyone go read the whole Paul Budde article.
yup they talk a good ploy of misinformation...
http://www.buddeblog.com.au/
AS usual more pertinent and wise comments on NBN. Recommend reading the whole article....
The issue has been so incredibly politicised that it is almost impossible to cut through all the noise.
This has nothing to do with doing things cheaper and faster;
After all those years neither the government nor the NBN company have come up with a plan for what we need the NBN for; and what it means for the economy of our country.
All Minister Christopher Pyne had to say on the NBN was that it allows us to download five movies at the same time. How absurd is that? It is not a comment that you would expect from an informed senior political leader. Is that what his vision is for the country, for the NBN � the ability to download Netflix movies? I find that insulting.
NBN is a monopoly service, ..... why is there a need to hide information? Why is there such an issue around leaked documents? There can�t be much commercial-in-confidence information in what is a monopoly business?
There is no way the monopoly company can argue that the leaks are undermining them commercially.
The MtM policy severely undermines other long-term government policies such as innovation and smart cities. All those involved in innovation and smart cities are saying quite clearly that in order to get the proper benefits from these policies a full fibre network is required.
If the rest of the world can find bi-partisan solutions for its digital infrastructure why can�t we do the same?
But the research company had been explicitly forbidden to take other technologies into account
Yeah, that was a crock.. Another skewered partisan review..
Just getting back to the bit where the Comms minister Mitchel Fairfield skipped attending that meeting I can assure you (Because I know what the Libs are like) that they would be calling out Labor for doing the same thing too if they ever skipped such a meeting. But because the Libs are in the High chair at the moment, everyone else is too scared to speak up because the Libs will likely make more lies and made believe crap up.
It just sickens me as a Citizen of this Country that we have a Person in the Communications chair that is ignorant and doesn't care for our future. Any other country right now as I type is at least trying to listen to their citizens and trying to make ends meet. But us??? Ohhh no, we instead have an ignorant person who's not interested in our needs or wants and wants to make sure we are as far back as we are for the future, good game Mr Fairfield.
Also their so called innovation thing that the current Government is trying to push won't work well without a Modern National broadband Network.
But because the Libs are in the High chair at the moment, everyone else is too scared to speak up because the Libs will likely make more lies and made believe crap up.
If you want any proof on who controls the media just look at how much coverage the AFP raids are getting....
Yup that's right. Zilch, nada, nothing... outside of specialist outlets like ZDNet, Delimiter and ABC news everyone else has pretty much moved on and forgotten about it. Now can you imagine if the reverse happened and it happened to the Libs? We would not be hearing the end of it for weeks on end until the election.
Just saw the 4 minutes on the guardian about Q&A, the most cheers came when Tony said politics got involved and he is 100% right there
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
Oh he has some nerve... That won't look good on him and Turnbull, just shows how much they have to hide!
Not NBN directly but this sums up the "your home doesn't need those speeds" argument -
EEF members' main concerns for broadband are that it's cost effective, reliable, and resilient, as well as future proof. Speed doesn't factor into it nearly as much.
Pardon my french but thats absolutely bullshit. Its about all of the above there, if they say speed isnt a factor then they shouldn't be there.
Its about all of the above there, if they say speed isnt a factor then they shouldn't be there.
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
I would and still argue today that 25mbps isn't enough but i do see the point, however speed is STILL an important factor and they are making it sound like it isn't. I especially want more upload speeds which we are not getting with this politicised crap
Wait until my die hard liberal voting family find out that they are going to have to forkout moolah to come up with a solution for my Grandmothers Call Alert system.
Well if they are really true blue die hard liberals then they'll come up with a plan to shift those costs to someone else. Have you got your credit card ready? ;)
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
There are dropouts and dropouts. In a previous residence of mine I had an ADSL line that dropped out many more than 5 times a day (as it turned out due to rodent activity on wiring internal to the apartment, but that's a different story.) but because my PPOE session stayed up and waited for the modem to retrain, it really only affected voip calls.
The other saving grace is that if your DSL line drops out once a day because of poor line quality, chances are it will be dropping out dozens of times a day and will get flagged for maintenance under NBN rules. The number "5" is chosen not because anyone is saying 5 dropouts a day are acceptable, but because they don't want to be flagging a line for maintenance because someone rebooted their modem a couple of times.
yup they talk a good ploy of misinformation...
Well, it's 'good' only from the coalition point of view.
First they told serial lies about the NBN, so (exactly as intended) all the non-tech, non-committed people got the impression it must be an expensive disaster.
Then they moved to stage two of their campaign and rolled out the even bigger porky that they could deliver their MTM to provide Faster! Cheaper! Quicker! access for everybody.
And now? It looks that the MTM we are getting will be at least as expensive over time as the NBN � but will be grossly inferior from day one, a deficiency which will become greater with every passing decade.
i still wondering why malcs got the comms portfolio in the1st place given the majors of conflicts of interest of industry he has.. though the case of irony it would benefithis business in other areas with reliable infrastructure..
Talk about NBN continues...on the ABC Drum today. Towards end of programme.
A fair bit of ignorance as to what NBN is but.... it is in the arena...increasingly.
Even the known right of centre Creighton, The Australian, concedes to get on with it .."and it might help innovation" (?) ....
Sensible stuff early from Peter Martin Economist, the Age, and Nicki Hutley Economist Urbis.
In a previous residence of mine I had an ADSL line that dropped out many more than 5 times a day (as it turned out due to rodent activity on wiring internal to the apartment, but that's a different story.) but because my PPOE session stayed up and waited for the modem to retrain, it really only affected voip calls.
I assume you have that the wrong way around � you can have a PPP dropout while retaining line sync, but you cannot have an ADSL dropout while maintaining a PPP connection.
The number "5" is chosen not because anyone is saying 5 dropouts a day are acceptable, but because they don't want to be flagging a line for maintenance because someone rebooted their modem a couple of times.
There is no active monitoring that would necessitate such a threshold � the cause of dropouts is only (theoretically) investigated by nbn� if a fault is lodged by the RSP after going through rigorous standard troubleshooting with the customer (triggered by the customer contacting the RSP).
Moved from the NBN HFC thread....
Once full structural separation has been achieved, the first item on the agenda will to replace all the bits that Telstra still owns.
You mean replace the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges?
What about the long term lease payments NBNCo has to pay Telstra for the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges under the Telstra NBN Co agreement?
Likewise, from the HFC thread:
So at the moment ARPU difference between the technologies is negligible.
That is not true at all � not only are there an order of magnitude more customers on FTTP than FTTN overall, there are double the percentage of 100/40 customers on FTTP than there are up-to-100/40 on FTTN... combine those two factors together and ARPU has to be significantly higher on FTTP.
I fully expect FTTN users will start to get dissatisfied with their speed at some stage.
When they do, they won't be able to get a higher speed so they won't be stupid enough to pay more.
They will reduce it, but hit you with something like a $300 contract break fee if Telstra is anything to go by.
I find that incredibly hard to believe.
That is not true at all � not only are there an order of magnitude more customers on FTTP than FTTN overall
Some FTTP areas have had up to 93% takeup. That is impressive.
I assume you have that the wrong way around � you can have a PPP dropout while retaining line sync, but you cannot have an ADSL dropout while maintaining a PPP connection.
In fact you can, but perhaps only if you have a separate modem and router like I did. The Ethernet line was not dropped by the modem while it was resyncing, and consequently the router just kept sending packets. Once the line resynced, the PPP session carried on as before. I assume it would get dropped if the resync took too long, because the server (BRAS) is supposed to send out LCP echo request packets periodically to check the status of the PPPoE session.
On the other hand if I unplugged the Enet cable between the router and the modem, the link went down instantly, my sessions all got ICMP Host unreachable packets and all my SSH (or other TCP) sessions would drop.
There is no active monitoring that would necessitate such a threshold � the cause of dropouts is only (theoretically) investigated by nbn� if a fault is lodged by the RSP after going through rigorous standard troubleshooting with the customer (triggered by the customer contacting the RSP).
Yeah. but the stats are kept in the DSLAM. Those counters would be monitored somewhere. But you may be right that they don't make anything happen until someone phones up and complains. Then someone will look at the counter and put it on maint if the counter for the last 24 hours is > 5 or say it's fine if it is <5.
You mean replace the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges?
What about the long term lease payments NBNCo has to pay Telstra for the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges under the Telstra NBN Co agreement?
I guess it depends how good those pits, pipes and conduits are. I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
http://www.sunshinecoastdail
THERE seems to be an assumption in the structuring and marketing of the National Broadband Network that the average punter is too dumb to comprehend the differences in speed offered through the network's various models and incarnations.
That assumption is exemplified by the marketing campaigns of the various telcos hocking NBN, where download limits are shouted in big pastel coloured numbers while finding the actual speeds takes so much clicking around you can only assume the telco would prefer not to talk about it.
Given all that, along with the high cost of plans with the highest speeds, it's really not at all surprising NewsCorp's The Australian was able to shout a few months ago that fewer than 25% of new NBN customers were opting for the fastest plan.
It feels as though we're all being taken for fools.
Which reminds me of something very truthful that the head of Telstra's NZ equivalent was recorded as saying 10 years ago. Something that we see clear evidence of happening still today in Australia from both NBN Co and some major ISP's/RSP's with broadband speeds and different broadband technologies.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bu
Gattung admits Telcos not being straight
Telecom's public image may take another hit as an audio clip of Theresa Gattung circulating on the internet has the chief executive admitting to the company "not being straight up" with customers.
"Think about pricing. What has every telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine," said Gattung in a speech recorded on March 20.
"You could argue that that's how all of us keep calling prices up and get those revenues, high-margin businesses, keep them going for a lot longer than would have been the case.
"But at some level, whether they consciously articulate or not, customers know that's what the game has been. They know we're not being straight up."
Gattung made the comments as part of a speech given to analysts in Sydney about the company's plans for the future.
"What she was talking about is the new paradigm that we're moving to ... which is all about having a much more transparent, open and easier-to-understand set of products so that customers have a lot more control."
I guess it depends how good those pits, pipes and conduits are. I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
Actually, I guess it firstly depends on whether the economics and ROI stacks up for NBN Co in building their own pits, pipes and conduits. I daresay it does not. And with either a lock of poles where power has gone underground, or poles that are not longer in the possession or control of State Governments, I think you may be 100% wrong on that.
With the existing liabilities for lease payments to utilise Telstra's CAN network assets of pits, pipes, conduits and exchanges (that lasts for how many years?) the economic return nail in the coffin, without a substantial hike in wholesale and retail NBN prices. With the added threat of either the poles and wires owners (current or new owners or strategic partners) or Telstra competing with their own FTTP/5G/Hybrid wireless/fixed line networks.
Some FTTP areas have had up to 93% takeup. That is impressive
To be fair that may be because the 18mth rule is invoked and full cutover has to take place. Must say it belies the LNP arguments that take up is bad which it isn't anyway � well exceeds original forecasts. slagging for the sake of slagging....
I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
I would have thought OF cable has advanced a fair bit and would be smaller now anyway and certainly OF smaller than coax so where's the problem...?
To be fair that may be because the 18mth rule is invoked and full cutover has to take place. Must say it belies the LNP arguments that take up is bad which it isn't anyway � well exceeds original forecasts. slagging for the sake of slagging....
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 41 | 97,679 | 16,445 | 16.8%
FTTN | 60 | 127,040 | 12,123 | 9.5%
FTTB | 71 | 17,441 | 567 | 3.3%
Edit: Will add all the SAM's that went RFS after 25/09/15 (when 1st FTTN site went SAM) up to end March (Made a mistake, correcting)$ Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 303 | 578,608 | 231,611 | 40.0%
FTTN | 96 | 204,240 | 33,798 | 16.5%
FTTB | 118 | 29,007 | 1,359 | 4.7%
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 135 | 270,586 | 79,610 | 29.4%
FTTN | 95 | 203,302 | 33,678 | 16.6%
FTTB | 117 | 28,370 | 1,249 | 4.4%
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 41 | 97,679 | 16,445 | 16.8%
FTTN | 60 | 127,040 | 12,123 | 9.5%
FTTB | 71 | 17,441 | 567 | 3.3%
Makes a mockery of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's claims on Q&A last night......
I would have thought OF cable has advanced a fair bit and would be smaller now anyway and certainly OF smaller than coax so where's the problem...?
Bending radius. I personally have been bitten by this one. Pipe plenty big enough for the next bigger cable size, but bending radii too small for the bigger cable. The design rules for new estates are very particular about bending radii and certainly don't allow plenty of things that copper cables just wouldn't care about.
Makes a mockery of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's claims on Q&A last night......
All helpfully mapped out here since the 1st SAM went RFS
- https://nbnmtm.cartodb.com/vi
Edit: Will add all the SAM's that went RFS after 25/09/15 (when 1st FTTN site went SAM) up to end March
Wow, this is what Frank was talking about, even if FTTN is quicker to build it is not an advantage if the takeup lags too far behind FTTP.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
Bending radius. I personally have been bitten by this one.
have a look at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUBRjiVhJTs
HFC has the same problems of bend radius as most optical fibres, just that a 10 times of a 10mm diameter HFC cable is much bigger than 10 times a 3 mm diameter SMOF fibre NBN Co was using for lead ins
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
I did rough estimates months ago somewhere in these forums. Even if FTTP takes an extra 90 days (which seems roughly where it is forecast to be at the moment), FTTP will be already earning more revenue within the first 3 months than FTTN will be at 6+ months. At that point the CAPEX is done, the OPEX is lower, and FTTP sites are just raking in the dough.
I dread to think what will happen with the 18m cutoff for FTTN. At least with FTTP the change is very visible to every home owner, but with FTTN if you don't follow the rollout, you may not even know that it has occured. Add on to the fact that people don't lose their copper and will cling on further to their special services, I see the 18m easily blowing out to 24m+ for the first FTTN sites.
fttn/fttdp might be an applicable install 10-20 years ago, today it is hardly worth given the distance limitations copper as service medium..
whilst the plan indicates fttn/fttdp as a cheaper to install solution, though go and ask telstra to install vdsl for you and will find a $5,000 PRICE tag you will have pay at a bare minimum..
now add 300-1,500 services at that price and a unreliable copper service past 1km and past 100meters from the pit a viability of vdsl/lan services..
Mac i suspect we are looking a 20-45 trillion on the non existent repairs and maintenance contracts to telstra for the next 30-60 years for the copper..
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Upload and network reliability. ie. Rain, sun, degrading copper. Power usage == a whole power station for nodes.
Mac i suspect we are looking a 20-45 trillion on the non existent repairs and maintenance contracts to telstra for the next 30-60 years for the copper
As a TLS shareholder I welcome that news!
Not that I believe the figures or that the FTTN solution is as terrible as made out here.
Power usage == a whole power station for nodes.
Here we go again, typical for posts on this site � ultra exaggeration. Either a mini power station or the nodes just self replicated a thousand times. There is enough genuine data to argue each side of this technical/economic debate without resorting to outlandish claims. Mind you, publish it on the web and it becomes fact eh!
Wow, this is what Frank was talking about, even if FTTN is quicker to build it is not an advantage if the takeup lags too far behind FTTP.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
In one all inclusive line that says it all:
IF the Cost per Premises is lower on FTTN in comparison to FTTP, then the benefit is definitely wasted on the lower uptake rate on FTTN in comparison to FTTP while NBN Co is rolling out faster FTTN.
Good morning ... :)
Nice information Nigel :) great work!
Hopefully everybody could understand my croaky voice.
That assumption is exemplified by the marketing campaigns of the various telcos hocking NBN, where download limits are shouted in big pastel coloured numbers while finding the actual speeds takes so much clicking around you can only assume the telco would prefer not to talk about it.
That irks me seriously..
The Telstra ad is the worst. Picture a family of several members, on several devices, movies , online games etc and then the claim..
"All at the same time"
No speed is mentioned.. yet they claim by being connected to the nbn , you can do all these things without buffering..
Well you can't do that on 12/1. My son can tell you that. He's like that family in the ad. I doubt if you could do it on 25/2.
The charity organization I work for has 32 connectors to one line.
Dont tell me 25/2 will be OK for them.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Is there a link to stream or transcript.?
At least with FTTP the change is very visible to every home owner, but with FTTN if you don't follow the rollout, you may not even know that it has occured.
I wonder how much this point has affected take up rates of FTTN? Especially with the later FTTP installs (where every PCD was installed whether you asked for it or not) it was bleedingly obvious that a new connection would be available soon so people looked into it. There is a very high likelihood that many people in the FTTN footprint don't even know it is being installed (if they don't happen to drive past a node while it is being worked on).
Have nbn been sending out mail about the FTTN rollouts in those areas? I moved away from my last house before they started coming.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
That's the NBN Co financial death spiral I was banging on about the other day in Whirlpool.
Here we go again, typical for posts on this site � ultra exaggeration. Either a mini power station
Its is roughly a powerstation overall needed for 50,000+ nodes
or the nodes just self replicated a thousand times
No idea what you mean by that.
Is there a link to stream or transcript.?
Should be a link here not long after the show. Local time of interview was 8:47am I think it was. I got around 10min in.
http://www.abc.net.au/brisba
Have nbn been sending out mail about the FTTN rollouts in those areas? I moved away from my last house before they started coming.
FTTN is rolling out around me and it is very hard to miss. As it approached the date to go live the service providers, particularly Telstra, have ramped up publicity and feet on the ground in shopping centres etc.
Also it is interesting that it appears a lot of the effort, and cost presumably, has gone into the laying of purpose built new conduit to provide the OF link to all the nodes. So presumably when the whiners have their way and all this is replaced by FTTP, it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node.
On the other hand the negative campaign is gaining traction with help from poorly written articles in the local rag. Several articles pointed to poor service in Newcastle and neatly stepped over the fact they all seemed to relate to the backhaul problems of one small provider. Even Paul Budde was less than clear in his comments regarding the Hamilton exchange. Then problem referenced would have been the same even if these customers were on FTTP, it had nothing to do with the copper in the exchange.
So presumably when the whiners have their way and all this is replaced by FTTP, it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node.
Except the Fibre doesn't come from the node. It has to be taken to the fsam . The node becomes obsolete.
Its is roughly a powerstation overall needed for 50,000+ nodes
By my reckoning there are 4 main power stations in NSW, the smallest producing 1400Mw. Show me your maths. 50,000 nodes compared with 2.8 million households in NSW using some of that power output to run lights, power, heating, hot water etc never mind all the industrial use. See Computer World 10/6/14 "FTTN power bill $89m per year. Does not seem like much of a power station.
Except the Fibre doesn't come from the node. It has to be taken to the fsam . The node becomes obsolete.
Rubbish. It can be repurposed. Technology creep, we can't have a smaller FSAM where some of the nodes are. In any case there is now a lot of the fibre around all these main streets, presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also. Just because FTTP plan had the FSAM back at the exchange with OF running out to the GPON links for each bundle of houses does not mean there are no alternative topologies that could work when required.
it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node
The FTTP will not be connected at the node...
Rubbish. It can be repurposed.
Nope...that is why the FoD is bypassing the node completely today.
presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also
Nope...4 strands per node.
The FTTP will not be connected at the node...
Think outside the nine dots. Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant, but it is a location with power etc and could have a mini FSAM installed etc feeding the local loop (that would need to be installed). OK there could be some cost penalties but surely simpler than rejigging the whole damn lot.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people
Yes, I heard you Nigel... good effort you got some good points across, I think the ABC presenter was stunned with some of the information.
It is got that this issue seems to be getting a run on 612 ABC and lots of business people are coming on saying how the current MTM mess is making it very difficult to run their businesses.
There looks to be some momentum there, if the ALP wants to win the election they need to raise the profile of this issue.... I think they will do that .. it is just a question of timing ... the clock is ticking ... I expect the alarm to go off soon. :)
Nope...4 strands per node.
And where I am there are 5 nodes within half a km, so 20 fibres and basically fed by the same main conduit. So how many OF from the FSAM to here under your plan to feed each of the 32 houses on a loop. Remember OF has "unlimited" potential. As I said just rethink the design move some of the stuff closer to the end point.
The node becomes obsolete.
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
Also there is still the contributing issue of the Network Design Rules that have been changed. No redundant design on FTTN.
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
So making FOD even more impossible than it already is.
So making FOD even more impossible than it already is.
FoD in the current offering is just a service that is there for political arguments.
Practically it is not worth a cent, if you consider the default bandwidth capacity towards to the Node. On a busy evening, after 18 months of activation, the available default bandwidth becomes rather crowded and the opportunity to receive even remotely the speed purchased on FoD I would consider impossible.
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
Yup, how nice the public has been sold a dud.
:0<
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
agreed, though I believe they are simply sticking multiports at the node and using the spare strands from that to run out to max 32 premises per multiport. it is essentially a separate network, you are right. end user is paying for it all � it is meant to be at no cost to NBN, in line with current govt policy.
end user is paying for it all
In engineering terms there is always a solution, in cost-economical terms mostly there isn't. It mostly boils down to one question from the engineer to his manager: "How much are you willing to pay for it?" :)
Calculated a rebuild in the past, top of my head, around A$50b if the FTTN would be rolled out completely. The longer the FTTN roll out continues, the closer we get to this number. If a switch to FTTP (perhaps in combination with FTTdp) is required after the election, the balance act will be to stop the roll out of FTTN as cost-economically as possible while at the same time start-up a FTTP roll out as soon as possible.
I understand the NBN-policy is in the ALP budget which is financial sensible. It is the kind of sensibility I would expect from NBN Co in regards to their Corporate Plan. Claiming that FTTP is the end solution, implies that financial responsibility should be taken how we get to that end point.
A desktop analysis into a rebuild to FTTP would be a good idea. Likely Professor Ergas can offer a helping hand. :P
Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant
Which is what will happen with a full FTTP roll out.
You cannot simply upgrade fttn to fttp � it doesn't work that way for a number of reasons.
The LNP have stuck us with a solution that isn't even adequate for today's needs.
A desktop analysis into a rebuild to FTTP would be a good idea. Likely Professor Ergas can offer a helping hand. :P
$25b for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model..?
$25b for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model..?
$25 for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model ... sorry that is a statement of net worth, not build cost.
$25 for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model ... sorry that is a statement of net worth, not build cost
Lol.. depends on ergas interpretation..
Rubbish. It can be repurposed. Technology creep, we can't have a smaller FSAM where some of the nodes are. In any case there is now a lot of the fibre around all these main streets, presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also. Just because FTTP plan had the FSAM back at the exchange with OF running out to the GPON links for each bundle of houses does not mean there are no alternative topologies that could work when required.
No point. The fibre is piss easy to run from the FSAM � because the ducts have already been cleared to run the fibre for the node. There is no reason to run mini-fsams. Just run the FSAM � run the fibre out through the pre-cleared ducts and you are good to go.
The nodes are redundant. A waste of time, as waste of space. The FSAMS can sit in the best choice for their location, not on the side of the road.
There is a very high likelihood that many people in the FTTN footprint don't even know it is being installed (if they don't happen to drive past a node while it is being worked on).
That's still no reason to think that the NBNis bring installed in your area. A node is being installed near my son's school in the Blue Mountains (did a lovely job wrecking some folk's footpath and fence), and there isn't an NBN symbol in sight. My missus had no idea it was NBN related, even though I talk her ear off about the issue.
Combine that with the older population up here, and it's likely bugger all people know NBN is rolling out without searching for the info.
HFC has the same problems of bend radius as most optical fibres, just that a 10 times of a 10mm diameter HFC cable is much bigger than 10 times a 3 mm diameter SMOF fibre NBN Co was using for lead ins
The true cost of HFC is not yet known but obviously it will all be in the HFC lead-in. From my reading everything else just seems to be using the existing HFC plant, other than the CMTS:
DO they need to deploy Fibre like they would for FTTP or FTTN for HFC. I have seen a lot of NBN workers in Yangebup where I live and haven't seen any Fibre being deployed.
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
You will see the same with HFC, a relatively low take-up rate. If you are a Bigpond cable user going to NBN will be a step back: you lose your landline and need to rely on the more unreliable VoIP and if you have Fast cable with 35 Mbps you will be downgraded to 25 Mbps NBN (reduction of 30%!). ADSL users with new HFC NTDs may be excited by this new technology (which they had access to already but maybe never realised) and be the majority of early adopters.
And where I am there are 5 nodes within half a km
Is that all, around here we have about 10 nodes within half a km
Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant, but it is a location with power etc and could have a mini FSAM installed etc feeding the local loop (that would need to be installed).
And the current FTTN customers do what while this is happening?
And the current FTTN customers do what while this is happening?
"Who cares, they should move to somewhere that has better connectivity"
/sarcasm
or that the FTTN solution is as terrible as made out here
Don't take the word of posters here but check out the posts of those suffering through the FTTN rollout on FTTN threads like NBN � Cannington WA. There are very few happy customers..... Comparatively for FTTP rollout FTTP went like a dream while it was going and improving as it went both delivery and cost wise. It must be costing a fortune to fix all the problems, and RSPs are giving upgrades just to keep customers happy which also costs them. 'Terrible' may be a kind word in this instance....
Hopefully everybody could understand my croaky voice.
Is there a transcipt or summary...?
Is there a transcipt or summary...?
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
http://www.computerworld.com
Hi Australia how's your 25mbps going?
Here it is.
Good interview, it's amazing the difference between an interview with someone who knows what they're talking about and a minister dumped with the portfolio regurgitating factually incorrect talking points prepared by someone else.
it's amazing the difference between an interview with someone who knows what they're talking about
It's like stumbling into oppsiteland
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Nice one mate.
Well worth listening too.
By my reckoning there are 4 main power stations in NSW, the smallest producing 1400Mw.
That's NSW, sure, here in WA, our best powerplant does 854MW, Western Power can't even get things right when it comes to keeping power up and running.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Really good listen, clear, accessible and to the point. Thank you.
It's like stumbling into oppsiteland
Nice one mate.
Well worth listening too.
Thanks, good work. Your voice was nice and clear.
Really good listen, clear, accessible and to the point. Thank you.
Cheers guys/girls.
I was surprised I was given that much airtime. Although it felt like it was over too fast. I'll have to do write up a list of talking points if I get another opportunity.
There looks to be some momentum there, if the ALP wants to win the election they need to raise the profile of this issue....
They have to be allowed to air NBN issues.... I heard on ABC radio this morning that Shorten's sound bite this morning (to be done later) would include NBN (first point mentioned) etc in Labor economic Plan announcement. Seen minimal footage of Shortens piece and summaries do not include reference to NBN, in fact Cormann and Turnbull got more air time criticising the announcement. Have to laugh at Turnbull's 'glossy brochure' attack � take a look at his "Our Economic Plan' which they all carry around Abbottesque like. Their short section referring to NBN is Fifields tweet posted earlier and criticises Labor rather than present their own Economic Plan � political deflection when you have nothing good to present....
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
That's what FTTN is all about isn't it?
Cheers guys/girls.
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises. What did you mean about that?
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises. What did you mean about that?
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Great stuff Nigel...hope there were lots of Qlder's listening and hopefully a few media outlets will be prompted into action, after all they always want controversy...here's their chance.
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Didn't that used to be a bad thing? ;)
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Wasn't Cannington mentioned?
Wasn't Cannington mentioned?
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Go easy on me :)
No need too, you were brilliant!
You got to the fact of the matter and demonstrated why the current situation is a farce.
I expect the AFP will be readying a raid on you.../sarcasm
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
It's up to the LNP to prove otherwise.
Since when has the truth been central to the nbn policy debate?
Everything Nigel stated is true.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Surely you should be pushing for Turnbull's NBN Co to change their reporting like you expected Labor's NBN Co to?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Bahahaha! Typical. So Nigel cant win. He has to name a place to be given credibility, but it doesn't matter anyway if he does name a place because Turnbull's NBN Co cant be wrong.
.
one area doesn't indicate a problem
Sure, check individual FTTN deployment threads, there are lots of posts from lots of deployment regions not able to connect for various different reasons. The gist of it is, there does not appear to be a standardised FTTN installation, most require some kind of technical intervention. This wasn't required for FTTP.
Since when has the truth been central to the nbn policy debate?
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Honestly, the only rollout rates worth reflection are the connection stats � 76% on Labor-contracted FTTP, 4% on FTTN.
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
You are sounding a bit panicked their KF � it's not like the mtm is a vote loser for Malcolm as people are starting to realise who is responsible for the lack of improvement.
The gist of it is, there does not appear to be a standardised FTTN installation, most require some kind of technical intervention.
This should'nt be a surprise to NBN Co because it was made apparent in their trials. The speeds they quoted werent possible without multiple visits from technicians to "tweak" the connection. People asked the question back then, that if this was required for all connections, how is the MTM going to be cheaper or faster, because it adds a massive extra level of cost and scheduling issues on top of an already expensive, slow rollout.
Its a shame people like Kingforce didn't ask the hard questions of the Libs back then. Maybe now we would have a better outcome.
Maybe now we would have a better outcome.
They still support MTM so I doubt it.
Good work Nigel � if you need to be bailed out let us know.
He has to name a place to be given credibility,
It would be a start.
But it doesn't matter anyway if he does name a place because Turnbull's NBN Co cant be wrong.
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero). The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
Almost as good as 25mbps for everyone by 2016! Or FTTN will only take 6 months to start rolling out? Or, the copper wont need much remediation? The list goes on and on!
St Marys POI. 5CPK3 and 5CPK10. Cannington. There's others.
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
No. You asked for examples and you were given them.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem
What do the liberals propose?
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
Well you know them pixie dusting fairies pop up every now and then.
Like the same ones that fixes the copper network.
Huh!
:0<
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
It's a problem with honesty.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Many thousands. Are you seriously asking what should be done about it? The answer is obvious � tell the truth.
name one place where this was a problem.
The St Marys thread includes many posters affected by this deception.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises
lol now you're blaming Labor for not explaining how they will fix Turnballs mess of a network?
Almost as good as 25mbps for everyone by 2016! Or FTTN will only take 6 months to start rolling out? Or, the copper wont need much remediation? The list goes on and on!
Yup the LNP trumpet blowing in the ocean really.
It would be a start.
Not really something you should be commenting on.
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem
You said you would ignore them regardless.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero).
Turnbulls NBN CO is now doing exactly the same thing � funnily enough, just before an election where the Libs are getting drastically desperate for runs on the broadband board. Why aren't you calling them out over this as you do with Labor?
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build and that would give flexibility to pay contractors more. Which has nothing to do with anything that is being discussed, but regardless, hasn't happened. The cost has blown out, and contractors are still unhappy.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Give us a break! This is the Coalition thread. Nothing to do with Labor. The question that needs to be asked is why the Libs have made this mess, and why are they allowing NBN CO to do the exact same things that the Libs criticised Labor for. The only reason we have FTTN is because of Turnbull. What is he doing to fix it?
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Sorry, thats off topic. This is the Liberal Policy thread. What do your mates propose to fix the problem?
Its a big problem, because despite the rhetoric, and the lies (such as Pyne: The nbn is on track), people are realising that they arent getting what was promised. And a significant proportion who are getting it, are running into serious problems. The regional threads in here a full of them.
So I repeat, what is the Liberal Policy to fix this? They are running out of money, and MTM doesnt make enough to cover commercial interest rates. How will they fix it?
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem.
How about $29.5 billion to provide 25Mbps to all by 2016.
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
Wrong, the Coalition's strategy was to pay contractors more to not do the work, in order to scupper the FTTP rollout.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Stop the stupidity of rolling out FTTN in 2016 using copper that is not fit for purpose.
ive us a break! This is the Coalition thread. Nothing to do with Labor. The question that needs to be asked is why the Libs have made this mess, and why are they allowing NBN CO to do the exact same things that the Libs criticised Labor for. The only reason we have FTTN is because of Turnbull. What is he doing to fix it?
Exactly the libs are absolute hypocrites with the NBN. Labor got blasted for the FTTN proposition and rightly so. But the Libs do it its all just dandy o for them to do it.
Stop the stupidity of rolling out FTTN in 2016 using copper that is not fit for purpose.
Indeed take the logical common sense way.
Give us a break!
We're in the middle of an election. So we need to compare to Labor's plans.
Nigel was specifically asked how the major parties were going to fix the "network shortfall".
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
Exactly the libs are absolute hypocrites with the NBN. Labor got blasted for the FTTN proposition and rightly so. But the Libs do it its all just dandy o for them to do it.
The term "Fraudband" was initially coined by a LNP Politician. Fiona Nash I believe, to describe a FTTN rollout that would not meet expectations and blowout costs by 3 to 4 times the estimate.
http://www.fionanash.com.au/
Here we are about 10 years later, and things are going exactly the way Ms Nash predicted. Irony is such a cruel master.
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