Just seeing that he was an advisor to Fifield and still recommending copper i can count this "opinion" piece as crap and has not persuaded me in anyway.
Also an employee of the IPA which hates the very concept of the NBN
New Zealand ask from their UFB FTTP.. How's your FTTN going?
*giggle noises in the background*
Over the 7million not yet passed by FTTP or the FTTN in build, that's ~$8.5bil as leaked (I haven't seen that exact leak, so if anyone has a link to it, or perhaps even a photograph of it ... :-)).
Thanks for all that info. So it looks like the $8.5bn is the extra capex required. There would also be an extra increase in total funding to cover the time lost to change tack and the extra build time for FTTP. That's still only putting the total funding at $10-15bn more (closer to $10bn imo). The lower opex and higher revenue for FTTP easily pays for that.
I've done this rough calculation a number of times over the years and I get the same result every time ... that is, there is no financial justification for the MTM. What bothers me is why haven't Labor been making this case to prepare the way for taking an FTTP policy to the election? Have we got this wrong?
http://www.zdnet.com/article
http://www.zdnet.com/articl
For anyone to claim that the public should not know that the rollout is slower than expected with rising costs, that the company is looking at cheaper technologies to bring costs down, and that over three dozen fibre-to-the-node areas are behind schedule is to take the public for mugs.
It is disingenuous to claim, as Cormann has, that NBN throwing a bunch of numbers over the wall each week is transparency. The weekly rollout figures are headline numbers at best � they do not detail which fibre technology is being used, and they bundle fibre-to-the-premises, fibre-to-the-node, and fibre-to-the-basement into one number, with geographical breakdown limited to states and territories.
For the past three years, NBN has covered as much information as it can in its now-infamous "commercial-in-confidence" phras
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
how would nbn� have gained that evidence?
it should all be under seal till the issues of Parliamentary Privilege are resolved as it seems that none of the other locations or people or organisations other that ALP associated areas were searched or have i missed any other searched locations?
how would nbn� have gained that evidence?
Illegally.
it should all be under seal till the issues of Parliamentary Privilege are resolved as it seems that none of the other locations or people or organisations other that ALP associated areas were searched or have i missed any other searched locations?
The NBN staff member acting as a constable for the AFP forwarding the photographs to the NBN powers-that-be would appear to have been the catalyst... and at a rough guess, the people stood down and staring down the barrel of being fired will have good grounds for unfair dismissal cases with fairwork, but... hey, I'm no lawyer.
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
Hope the source of the IDs was not solely from evidence gather from Conroy's office, as the evidence is sealed and as such the AFP and NBN, are not supposed to be privy to it.
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
You mean they knew who the whistleblowers were, then proceeded with the raid?
Hardly likely that the raid drew them to identify the culprits . I believe they already knew, and that's what led to the raids.
Looks like the raids have resulted in NBN Co identifying the whistleblowers.
http://www.itnews.com.au/ne
This is ridiculous, so the sealed evidence led to the whistle blowers and subsequently stood down?
How does this work? Does AFP have x-ray vision and can see through sealed boxes of documents? Seems like there is X-men among us.
The only reason, they knew who the culprits were at NBN co. They didn't need to raid the ALP, just ask to help with the investigation. I'm sure the ALP would comply.
So the raid's intention was not to assist an investigation. BUT TO STEAL ALP NBN Policy documents, as evidently done so by Mr S, via an phone and photos/internet access while onsite. In addition to seal the senate inquiry results so that nothing can be disclosed until after the election
The message gets clearer everyday due to the event's fallout. LNP shenanigans, more to come. Its a long road to election day.
The message gets clearer everyday due to the event's fallout. LNP shenanigans, more to come. Its a long road to election day.
For sure.
More stinks of dead rats about to surface.
Lying Necrosis Party. Aka LNP.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
I would laugh if it wasn't so funny.
The NBN staff member acting as a constable for the AFP forwarding the photographs to the NBN powers-that-be would appear to have been the catalyst... and at a rough guess, the people stood down and staring down the barrel of being fired will have good grounds for unfair dismissal cases with fairwork, but... hey, I'm no lawyer.
Has their representation been crowd funded yet? I make a donation for sure.
How does this work?
Maybe the NBNCo has illegally used the photographs they were illegally given after they had been illegally taken at the direction of the AFP. It will be interesting to see what criminal charges arise from this fiasco.
http://www.zdnet.com/articl
It is disingenuous to claim, as Cormann has, that NBN throwing a bunch of numbers over the wall each week is transparency. The weekly rollout figures are headline numbers at best � they do not detail which fibre technology is being used, and they bundle fibre-to-the-premises, fibre-to-the-node, and fibre-to-the-basement into one number, with geographical breakdown limited to states and territories.
Yep. It is always frustrating to hear Turnbull say that the Coalition are more transparent than Labor were. There is more to transparency than quantity of info, it is also about the level of detail (or lack thereof).
Good article by Zdnet
We are entitled to ask questions, that is the beauty of the democracy we live in.
Well on behalf of taxpayers (initiated from a state's house basis) the Senate is supposed to do this however that institution continues to be abused and disregarded. Where the Govt doesn't like their work they change the rules or refuse to participate. This govt has to go and the NBN Raids confirm that
I said this last election when albo was Comms minister, he does not execute a case for it very well and I don't think he really understands the NBN
Albo is much better at transport and industrial infrastructure, the NBN is unfortunately out of his depth.
Today marks 1,000 days since I got a letter from NBNCo (28/08/13) telling me about construction starting (2GOS-05 � FTTP) � despite having had the PCD installed on the wall over a year ago, I'm still waiting for the "network shortfall" to be rectified so I can order a service.
I think this highlights one issue wit MTM
with the big rush to switch over to FTTN including all teh design and provisioning issues nbn� have totally dropped the ball with what they were building before the switch was announced
All most of the areas in 2GOS that had "network shortfalls" before the last election still seem to have them today
Then you have 2GOS-07 that had "special build" contracts let, outside the normal FTTP process.
The build seemed to be running ok, then the moment that FTTN kicked off, work became very sporadic in 2GOS-07, sometime being months between workers being seen.
It then went quiet for 6 months till AUSGRID started running the aerial fibre, about 2 years after the initial rollout in 2GOS-07 kicked off
It certainly points to a lack of desire to even finish any FTTP build that were underway.
Maybe all the people that were managing those builds were shown the door as fibre zealots and some poor other sod had to try and learn what had been done and where negotiations stood
Wonder if AUSGRID getting all the aerial fibre design and install work in the Gosford area was part of some of those long drawn node power supply deals
The current management seem to delight in sweetening the pot for some suppliers of services with extra work not actually part of the negotiated deal
The lack of understanding about the subject from Pyne was embarrassing , bringing up movies as justification. Albo didn't do a lot better either tho.
This highlights the ongoing problem on Q and A. Whenever a comms minister is on, NBN discussion is not allowed. On the very odd occurrence they do allow it, they do it with ministers from different portfolios who only really know the speaking notes to regurgitate, or with other panellists who aren't specialists in the field. As such, NBN discussion is only ever superficial.
I'm guessing that neverless, your area is listed as RFS
Yep, April 30 last year apparently.
This highlights the ongoing problem on Q and A. Whenever a comms minister is on, NBN discussion is not allowed. On the very odd occurrence they do allow it, they do it with ministers from different portfolios who only really know the speaking notes to regurgitate, or with other panellists who aren't specialists in the field. As such, NBN discussion is only ever superficial.
I have generally boycotted Q&A when it became blatantly obvious that they were shutting down NBN discussion at the core. This was several years ago when someone here was on Q&A and described the process of having questions selected, the seating arrangements etc. Turns out it was a staged managed show afterall.
But last night, while I was flicking between channels, I came across a bit of the discussion. What I did see was Tony Jones direction of argument obviously to LNP's favour. Looks like Q&A is still shutting down unfavorable NBN debate on its show.
Really pyne has a face that looks like it needs a good five across the eyes.
Wouldn't phase him, he's probably had that daily since birth. The kind of guy even his mates punch in the face on a regular basis.
Albo is much better at transport and industrial infrastructure
I agree, he is fantastic at executing his agenda around this.
the NBN is unfortunately out of his depth.
Completely and truly. When he was on lateline with Turnbull in the 2013 campaign I was shouting at the TV like I wanted a microphone into his earpiece. Turnbull was frequently using fallacies and playing dirty so to speak and Albo could not roll with it and was being swept overboard.
Completely and truly. When he was on lateline with Turnbull in the 2013 campaign I was shouting at the TV like I wanted a microphone into his earpiece. Turnbull was frequently using fallacies and playing dirty so to speak and Albo could not roll with it and was being swept overboard.
It's a shame, he's just never been been able to understand and articulate technology issues, Jason Clare is much better but still not able to refute TurnCoat's BS very well when live. Michelle Rowland has probably the best understanding on comms infrastructure in the ALP's lower house crew iirc.
Jason Clare is much better but still not able to refute TurnCoat's BS very well when live
I think this comes down to Clare having some of Conroy's comms staffers who are very good at their jobs.
Michelle Rowland has probably the best understanding on comms infrastructure in the ALP's lower house crew iirc.
Michelle Rowland and Ed Husic would make a killer duo in the comms team IMO. Ed is also quite good across the NBN infrastructure, but together they would be amazing.
The lack of understanding about the subject from Pyne was embarrassing , bringing up movies as justification.
I think the take up of streaming services like Netflix and the frequent TV adverts for FreeView and other catch up TV services show it's a very good line as it resonates with the electorate who are using it for just that. Far more voters are going to identify with using the internet for TV and movies than will see any relevance in 1Gbps services.
but together they would be amazing
I'd forgotten about Ed � agreed, I'd like to see that too!
Speaking of transparency, remember when we had a NBN Co employee posting official information in these forums? I wonder what happened to him?
Kidnapped and gagged probably.
Probably taken out the back of nbn HQ and shot for being a socialist or some other trumped up nonsense!
Can't believe the drivel coming out of Pyne and Ciobo (or whatever his name is). Absolutely disgraceful.
I think the take up of streaming services like Netflix and the frequent TV adverts for FreeView and other catch up TV services show it's a very good line as it resonates with the electorate who are using it for just that. Far more voters are going to identify with using the internet for TV and movies than will see any relevance in 1Gbps services.
Good luck with that on the FTTN! You've also forgotten those who back-up to the cloud and use applications that require high speed internet access (without it, the application is useless). Last time I looked, the FTTN would need to be overbuilt for it to be "upgraded".
Speaking of transparency, remember when we had a NBN Co employee posting official information in these forums?
Wasn't that back in the NBNv1 era? Before NBNv2 took away the transparency and replaced it with a crumbling brick wall.
Speaking of transparency, remember when we had a NBN Co employee posting official information in these forums? I wonder what happened to him?
I remember Scott Rhodie, (/user/408887), but that was a long time ago.
Can't believe the drivel coming out of Pyne and Ciobo (or whatever his name is). Absolutely disgraceful.
they are just reciting a script
Bit like first level customer support you encounter when calling any organisation
wonder if the script writers have to wear hazmat gear when writing those scripts or if they have created a "script bot"
enter the keywords and it spits out Gospel
GIGO
Garbage in Garbage Gospel Out
http://www.pcworld.idg.com.a
It shows that more traffic will be crossing the internet per month in 2016 (110 exabytes) than it did for the entire of 2009 (108 exabytes).
Wrong.
NBN co have exceeded revenue and activation targets for 2016. That's why it won't be a major issue for the Coalition. There isn't much to be critical about.
Who cares?
You should. Anyone who swallowed the Libs "faster,cheaper" Koolaid should. The lack of HFC and FTTN connections after nearly 3 years should be very concerning. Everyone was supposed to have 25mbps by the end of this year for $29.5 billion weren't they? Questions need to be asked when the Libs are already years behind and double the cost. Why wont you ask the hard questions of the Libs?
Under the Coalition the NBN is going from strength to strength and the numbers prove it.
They don't. That's the point. How many connections from the 955,000 Pyne quoted are active HFC and FTTN?
Labor mismanaged the NBN.
Not anywhere nearly as badly as this government. Why are they so desperate to hide the truth that they have to get NBN Co to bring in the cops and ask the media along to film it all? Very,very sad state of affairs when a government tries to censor the media and the opposition.
You have to benchmark the Coalition's management against the Labor's historic record to see that Turnbull did a good job with the NBN.
Yep. How many connections from the 955,000 Pyne quoted are active HFC and FTTN? Turnbulls policy accounts for the HFC and FTTN bit, so how much is that?
When the Coalition got into government the rollout was in danger of stopping
Apart from yourself Says who.
Dr Mark Gregory of RMIT said that it would take an extra ten years for the NBN to be completed.
Getting your coulds and woulds mixed up again Kingy?
I don't know where you get the facts from, but it's clearly not from anywhere credible.
A stuttered facts generator.
:0>
Where in the hell did you get that 'the rollout was in danger of stopping.' ?
Simon Hackett, former member of the NBN Co board. He had inside knowledge of the true state of the NBN when Labor left office.
How do you know?
What released report had targets and results.
CP16 is a forecast report.
Where is a released report for results?
3 year plan held targets, yet it is in the void with no hope of ever being seen.
Karina needs to be asked what's up? She said 'March/April' in her last tweet. STILL WAITING
Why wont you ask the hard questions of the Libs?
It might burn like a vampire seeing the sun or mirror.
:0>
That's why it won't be a major issue
Getting your coulds and woulds mixed up again Kingy?
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow so you should go and blame him.
NBN co have exceeded revenue and activation targets for 2016.
50,000 FTTN connections was the target?
Who cares? Under the Coalition the NBN MTM is going from strength to strength nowhere fast and the numbers prove it.
Once you take away all those FTTP connections (Labor Policy) from the figures things don't look so rosy do they.
Turnbull did a good job with destroying the NBN
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow so you should go and blame him.
He never said what you claimed he did.
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow so you should go and blame him.
If we take Simon's word, then FTTN should be removed from the roll-out.
Next.
He's the one he went on to ABC and said Labor's rollout was too slow
Excuse me Kingy ... but that's a different story to where you said ...
Dr Mark Gregory of RMIT said that it would take an extra ten years for the NBN to be completed.
Would you like a front end loader to dig that hole?
Next.
Social media doesn't get to decide the next government the Australian voter does that.
According to Vote Compass, before the raids, Infrastructure didn't even rate.
Social media doesn't get to decide the next government the Australian voter does that
And who do you think uses social media!
Simon Hackett, former member of the NBN Co board. He had inside knowledge of the true state of the NBN when Labor left office.
Hackett also said FTTN was crap and shouldn't be used, and yet he has supported its rollout, even when its way behind schedule, and costing almost double what it should. He also said NBN Co was doing well when he left, and yet the leaks clearly prove otherwise. Hard to give him much credence based on reality.
The record of the Coalition's management of the NBN remains strong and credible.
LNP talking points 101, keep repeating and repeating, and it will sound true. This isn't 2013 anymore, the public has seen what rubbish mtm nbn is.
Social media doesn't get to decide the next government the Australian voter does that.
Random person on whirlpool doesn't get to decide what is hot or not in Australian voters minds.
Next.
Whatever he said exactly it's clear that he thought Labor's NBN was going too slow.
I agree, and he was quite rightly pointing to project shortfalls regarding timing and possible costs.
Nobody here is saying under the Labor Govt the NBN rollout was going flawlessly.
It had problems, they were learning and yourself / News Corp cheered on the LNP as they sniped and jeered from the cheap seats.
3 years on and Morrow and Co have taken failing to a whole new level.
But you fail to acknowledge ANY shortcomings of the current rollout or strategy.
Malcolm is definitely in charge and under his watch the public, the treasury and Australian business is being dudded on an epic scale.
The adults are not in charge.
The Howard and Costello era is gone and the spoiled children Abbott / Pyne / Turnbull etc. are pissing the inheritance up against the wall.
NBN co have exceeded revenue
Oh? isn't it at negative revenue?
and activation targets for 2016
err...So we're all connected then? wasn't the target everyone by 2016?
There isn't much to be critical about.
Yes there bloody well is.
...he could only re-iterate the company line, he couldn't even say "no comment" as that would be interpreted as a negative comment by ommision
Yep. That's my point. He is not the impartial and objective commentator that Kingforce is trying to make out.
The results of NBN Co customer surveys have been widely reported by media.
Oh those less then 14 people happy with FTTN.
Worthy of "widely reported"
https://simonhackett.files.
And he wasn't even there to know any of this. He seems to be, like you, singing from the LNP song sheet.
I know people who were there at the time and left, because they were disgusted with what a mess the company had become. Sorry, I'll take their word over the stories of someone who wasn't even there at the time.
you should go and blame him.
Whoa there...did I just read an LNP fan not blaming labor? What alternate reality am I in?
yes I know he was still trying to pass the blame off from LNP where it belongs, but atleast he didn't say it was labor's fault!
Morrow's NBN Co has passed 2 million premises which is nearly a quarter of all households.
How many of those are active HFC or FTTN connections? Morrow cant get credit what Labor put in place.
Morrow is supposed to be providing everyone with 25mbps by the end of this year. How is that coming along?
Whatever he said exactly
Because you sure wouldn't want to know that...
it's clear that he thought Labor's NBN was going too slow.
During the startup phase? Not from all he has said in the past...sure it could have been quicker, but quicker is usually much more expensive.
Mark Gregory is a pro fibre supporter
But not a political person...he wouldn't really care WHO came up with the best design, as long as it is built.
Morrow's NBN Co has passed 2 million premises
Maybe...maybe not. He has obviously been obfuscating the truth for some time, so I wouldn't accept that as a fact.
Didn't Mark directly address your claims of what he said in an earlier thread and compreshensively debunked your misrepresentation of his position?
He did. Kingforce is very clearly trolling yet again.
EDIT: Quote got left out for some reason.
Morrow's NBN Co has passed 2 million premises which is nearly a quarter of all households.
Point 1) the vast majority (95%+) of the 2M premises are those NBN V1 FTTP put in train � Turnbull's and Morrow's contribution was to slow that down to 40% build rate they cannot claim the FTTP as theirs at all other than they happened to watch such valuable magnificence get built. Their 2 � years of inaction for which they are solely responsible for is a miniscule contribution.
Point 2) NBN V1 was for 12M, presumably you exclude the HFC which the Optus portion is dead as a door nail so whatever way you look at it � not a qtr of rollout....but I note Turnbull, Morrow and disciples like your self choose to include Satellite and Fixed Wireless in claims, such cherry picking only serves for deception....but we are used to it
and NBN Co customer surveys show people are satisfied with speeds on the MTM.
Point 3) my previous response with quote form Cannington WA thread post, one of many similar posts, clearly proves your statement wrong and deceptive at best...look at the real world not the propoganda...
I don't know why I am bothering. This might sound like an attack. but are you mental? do you need meds?
No, in fact, I don't know why anyone would attempt to answer such convoluted drivel. The man is clearly mentally unbalanced. Is he in some sort of time warp? Nothing; no amount of truth or balanced reason ever seems to be considered. His arguments are so one-sided, I'm under the distinct impression he IS already on meds. Mind altering ones.
Just ignore him. He wants nothing more than to create havoc. He's a classic mindless troll.
Everyone here recognises that Labor could have handled some aspects better, but this is the Coalition thread, and they have been in power for almost three years.
And by every comparative measure the MTM has proved far worse and a disaster when you look at the posts of those getting FTTN now. I can't recall anything like these complaints from FTTP subscribers.
The results of NBN Co customer surveys have been widely reported by media.
Go check FTTN threads Kingy they are the real customers � they'd be too disgusted to bother with official complaints � I'd hate to be on the RSP help desks.
Just ignore him. He wants nothing more than to create havoc. He's a classic mindless troll.
The sad thing is that nothing is done about it. He (and GMZ) has a long history of trolling and yet he is still here. There have been posters who made much more valuable contributions that have been removed from the forum for much less. Does my head in. They wont substantiate anything when questioned, they keep repeating the same stuff, even when it is soundly disproven, they disappear soon after they post. All classic attributes of trolling according to the WP rules, and yet, here they still are, blowing out another thread.
You can almost pick if they have been here before even entering the thread. Just look at the page count, and if it has jumped through the roof, either something important has happened or KF and GMZ have been posting again.
Go check FTTN threads Kingy they are the real customers � they'd be too disgusted to bother with official complaints
I'd go one step further ....
Go on Kingy ... go and espouse the virtues of FTTN in those threads. You'll get the response your rhetoric deserves ... and even better ... it'll be on topic.
Ohh for Dog's sake Kingee!
Is that Turnbull's dog you are referring to...Turnbull clearly had (much more) inside info
Go on Kingy ... go and espouse the virtues of FTTN in those threads. You'll get the response your rhetoric deserves ... and even better ... it'll be on topic.
+10000000, retribution from unhappy FTTN users.
so the Liberals really have no idea how to cost their nbn� build, first it was going to be $29 Billion and now it is at the $50 Bullion mark and may keep rising.
Seems that they have problems with numbers of all sorts and whatever they say can vary by around $30 Billion.
Another example of Liberal inmumeracy is shown here
http://www.smh.com.au/federa
According to the LNP, aren't I supposed to be on the NBN and be getting my 25Mb by the end of this year?
Why then, does it say this, when I search for my address on the NBNCo website: ??
Where you stand within the nbn� rollout
Not currently available
IF I were, as the LNP said, getting on the NBN and getting 25Mb by the end of this year, surely work would be preparing if not started in my area, by now � Especially since I live in an old area?
Last I head, my area won't even be able to spit in the general direction of the NBN, until 2019 at the earliest!!
1. The rollout should never have been done using major contractors. This was forced on NBN Co by the telecommunications industry that would not entertain the idea that the largess could not be spread around. Dealing directly with the sub-contractors who actually do the work would have been the way to go.
I agree entirely. This is exactly what I've been saying since the very beginning. I think part of it was political too (Malcolm Turnbull was literally calling the NBN 'communist' as it was).
Dealing with the subbies directly would have required a lot more management and administration but in the end would have been far cheaper and more efficient.
7. The new management team at NBN Co have been careful to set targets so low that there was little chance the targets were not met � simply continuing existing contracts from the post-2014 changeover would ensure this occurred. 2 million premises passed in June 2016 whereas it should be 4-5 million now (see Rod Tuckers graphs of data from the corporate plans 2010-2016)
It's pretty sad to watch them try and convince the public they're doing a good job. The previous management were aiming for 10 but hitting a 7, and the new management try to tell us they're better by setting a target for a 3 and hitting it...
Dealing with the subbies directly would have required a lot more management and administration but in the end would have been far cheaper and more efficient.
And a lot less opportunities for political donations, gifts, board seats and lobbying role opportunities in the future.
Seems there are differing figures from many sources
Different point in timeline different figures � as to be expected.
948,739 are active customer services
Which is roughly the same as per ACCC data I used:
https://www.accc.gov.au
The main point, however, is the fact that ~80% of all cutrent NBN users are on ALP initiated FttP and less than 10% on Turnbull championed FttN ! Something you won't hear from the LNP or their supporters...
Quote: � Statistics from the ombudsman show that in this first quarter of this year, internet issues made up about 35 per cent of all complaints, compared to 26 per cent for the same quarter last year.
There were a total of 31,297 complaints during the quarter, an increase of 5.6 per cent during the same period in 2015.
So Kingy, Zealot, please confirm NBN Co Turnbull and Morrow Keisler must be telling lies as to customer satisfaction
Holy sheet.. look at Malcolms photo back then. He looked much healthier. Ahh the stress is really showing now. His like aged 10 years in 3?
Looks like he worked overtime in destroying the nations broadband future.
Being the sort of person he is, it takes a toll on the body and the mind and, ultimately, the spirit.
So Kingy, Zealot, please confirm NBN Co Turnbull and Morrow Keisler must be telling lies as to customer satisfaction
Each time they post, answer their post with only a link to an unhappy FTTN customer as an answer to any of their usual rhetoric and the usual recycled crap they spin.
See what poor excuse they will come out with but then again they would just ignore it and probably prattle away with their usual rhetoric.
but then again they would just ignore it and probably prattle away with their usual rhetoric
True, but I still like your idea; it engages the least with these time wasting wipes while countering their twaddle.
It was touted in this thread somewhere recently, that there was something around 2 million homes/premises connected to the NBN...But according to a Delimiter article from April this year, only 29,005 are FTTN.
Can anyone actually explain what � for the love of technology � is going on, exactly?
The confusion comes from not fully understanding what it is that the leaked document contains.
AIUI,that leaked document refers to the scale FttN rollout defined by 2 major agreements
PDSA � for design services
MIMA � for construction services
These agreements occurred after what is known as the JDWC agreement with Telstra (the ~220000? premises covered by the 1000 + 400? node construction trial, which began to be marked RFS from October 2015).
However, with costs exploding and only 29,005 FTTN premises reportedly rolled out so far � far short of NBN Co's 94,273 target refers to the premises passed targets for the MIMA construction contracts as at 12/02/16.
Of more concern to me is the FDD approved gap reported in that document. This is the difference between Final Detailed Design (the stage before construction commences) approval, targets and actuals
The numbers for this metric for 12/02/16 were:
Target � 1 402 909
Actual � 662 665
Shortfall � 740 244
It is this part of the rollout pipeline that will affect the FY2017 targets.
The most reliable source for active connections by technology is the figures provided by nbn to the ACCC for the period to 31/03/16, and released on the 29/04/16
https://www.accc.gov
That report indicates there were the following TC-4 AVCs (active connections) as of 31/03/16 with the FY2016 targets from the 2016 corporate plan in (Brackets after)
FttB � 7 469
FttN � 36 190 (75000 includes FttB)
**FttP Brownfields � 636 009 (590 000)
**FttP Greenfields � 152 548 (155 000)
Fixed Wireless � 100 958 (95 000)
Interim Sat � 34 881
**FttP brownfields (761557 FttP total minus 152548 greenfields from weekly data)
Unfortunately the ACCC report doesn't show 'premises passed' figures, and nbn weekly rollout figures for that date don't show technology split for brownfields. The following are my best estimates.
FttB � unknown precisely (~250000 including FttN as of 10/03/16 according to evidence to estimates)
FttN � assume ~300000 at 31/03/16 including FTTB (500 000)
FttP Brownfield � 1 041 450 (1 080 000)
FttP Greenfield � 259839 (260 000)
Fixed Wireless � 369970 (370 000)
Interim Sat � 34881
I have made the point, over and over again, that the much touted nbnTM management targets are nothing more than a sham. This is highlighted perfectly with the FY2016 targets from the 2016 corporate plan.
I cannot stress this enough. This is a document that was released in August 2015, and the actuals listed above are for the 31/03/16 not the FY2016 target date.
the new management
Would be dealing also with many different contractors, in respect to the additional technologies of the MTM.
It would be early days to judge how they are going. Or mebe not!!
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
Being the sort of person he is, it takes a toll on the body and the mind and, ultimately, the spirit.
Certainly a changed man....used to respect him but now...phph
As of April, it was just over 25,000.
Dont confuse 'premises passed' and 'active connections'.
My previous posts provides detailed figures for both as of 31/03/16.
The next ACCC report for active connections as of 30/06/16 should be available in July (probably late July).
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
True, but I still like your idea; it engages the least with these time wasting wipes while countering their twaddle.
Pretty much it.
See their drivel
Reply with someone who isn't happy with their FTTN connection link and leave it at that.
Just expose how crap the MTM is.
:0>
Simple short and who knows maybe even sweet.
Seems there are differing figures from many sources � e.g.
Absolute rubbish WhatThe ...... the rollout figures are completely transparent under nbn�. The correct figures are .... ummm .... hang on a minute .... the correct figures are ....... ummmmm ..... damn ..... I'm sure I had them here in a Bill Morrow non-ratified leaked non-nbn� 'For Official Use Only' document just a minute ago.
"Honey were the AFP in the house doing a raid again today? I seem to be missing some of my .. I mean their documents that were in my study."
The bush is waking up to Turnbull's easy way out plan by shifting customer from Fixed Wireless and FTTP to Satellite.
And I believe^ that under Quigley that once NBNCo had completed their proposed 93% rollout, they would have returned to the areas getting FW and would have commenced rolling out fibre to the FW areas too to replace their FW connection with a physical fibre connection.
^ Note that this is not based on any technical knowledge and my part. It's just my feeling that this would have happened. In summing up, it�s the constitution, it�s Mabo, it�s justice, it�s law, it�s the vibe, and�no that�s it�it�s the vibe. I rest my case.
And I believe^ that under Quigley that once NBNCo had completed their proposed 93% rollout, they would have returned to the areas getting FW and would have commenced rolling out fibre to the FW areas too to replace their FW connection with a physical fibre connection.
In some areas, maybe, but maybe not.
In low density areas, Fixed wireless makes a lot of sense. Its only problem is line of sight. So hilly areas � its near useless. Flat plains with large allotments, its near perfect. Easy, cheap, fast, for a low density area, its everything that a liberal nbn promises but cant deliver.
In fact, its probably better to roll out more FW than FTTP � to take more load of the poor satellites.
Note: the us (and south America) is having a massive surge of 'WISPs' Wireless isp's, fitting in the gaps using ubuiqiti gear and providing dirt cheap internet to places that otherwise struggled. Most of them are small business isps serving less than 500 clients..
In low density areas, Fixed wireless makes a lot of sense
Definitely. Wireless can be very high speed, its main problem is capacity. So it's pretty ideal as a primary access tech in medium density areas (close enough to reach enough subscribers with a single tower, but few enough that they don't swamp all the spectrum used by the tower).
And I believe^ that under Quigley that once NBNCo had completed their proposed 93% rollout, they would have returned to the areas getting FW and would have commenced rolling out fibre to the FW areas too to replace their FW connection with a physical fibre connection.
A logical progression. Quigley said himself there was opportunity to move to 94%....
I cannot stress this enough. This is a document that was released in August 2015, and the actuals listed above are for the 31/03/16 not the FY2016 target date.
Might take a little bit of time to absorb all that ozzie -thanks!!
It would be early days to judge how they are going. Or mebe not!!
Hate to repeat myself but it is quite clear just from looking at the posts on NBN Cannington WA where FTTN is just coming on board FTTN is a farce and apparently delivering much he same as ADSL when it settles down ....if that. Hate to think what it will be like when the nodes are fully populated
Its only problem is line of sight.
If NBN Co were smart they would have reutilised existing towers used for other services which already catered for the line of sight issues,...I stress, if
Which just makes the Labor party more beholden to unions
either party seems to be "beholden" to its biggest doners to varying degrees.
anymore discussion in here would be miles OT so i will cease now
Which just makes the Labor party more beholden to unions
Wrong tense, largely. Change makes to made, for complete accuracy. Labor is moving away from union domination over time.
"China? Really?
Which countries in EU have mandated rolling out fttp to 75% + of the population?
VDSL in Europe is growing faster than FTTP.
No government other than Australia's is "bankrolling" fttx. Some governments are subsidising it but most of the cost and risk is worn by the private sector."
Australia's circumstances are unique so it is not surprising that Australia might need a unique solution in internet provision as in other things. It's no argument to say "No one else is doing it". You actually have to make a case for why we shouldn't do it here.
NBN on ABC 702 starting at 37:40
https://radio.abc.net.a
Governments don't have the money to splash out on all fibre networks and telcos dont yet see the financial benefits.
You have to consider the best way forward all things considered.
The truth is that the Copper network in Australia is not in great shape as far as we know, and one problem is we still don't know.
FTTN is inferior to FTTH and seem to be costing a similar amount.
You can't take the costings given by the LNP/ALP as gospel and the current NBN management are handpicked by the LNP and have a tendency to hide information.
So what is probably needed is a full and open inquiry to establish the true position.
Install competent professional NBN management and free them from political interference.
It could be that FTTdp is the best way forward all things considered, but as far as I know FTTN is the worst way forward.
After listening to Mark on the radio FTTP as much as possible else we may as well give up.
No government other than Australia's is "bankrolling" fttx
How about Singapore?
In a government-led initiative to connect the island in a high-speed broadband network using various mediums such as fibre, DSL and cable, the Singapore ONE project was formally announced in June 1996, and commercially launched in June 1998. By December 1998, Singapore ONE is available nationwide with the completion of the national fibre optics network.
I'm sure there are others, check here if you are at all interested in educating yourself.
NBN on ABC 702 starting at 37:40
Nice cutting through the crap and telling what is what, Mark. Push the benefits to small business everyone, work on getting upload speeds higher.
Time is the most precious commodity of all, unless you can live forever.
I'm sure there are others, check here if you are at all interested in educating yourself.
To be clear, barryp was quoting rusty83.
25Mbps � some of the time
NBN's charge to give Australians access to 25Mbps internet speeds actually refers to wholesale speeds, which it sells in a range of speed tiers.
To meet its service level agreements, NBN must hit a stated peak speed just once in a 24-hour period.
That's right: it's contractually obliged to deliver its service speeds ... just once a day.
We can assume NBN will generally deliver above and beyond this minuscule requirement, but the company was not able to provide Fairfax with any data on its performance here.
Albo should have used this argument with Pyne on Q&A the other night.
That he did not think quick enough on his feet to come up with something like the above, is a real problem for Labor.
Some governments are subsidising it but most of the cost and risk is worn by the private sector."
I love it when this constantly trotted out "voice of reason" argument gets brought up. It completely and utterly disregards just how much of a failure our "private sector" has.
Of course a subsidy would normally be the best thing to push growth in a private sector assuming the market is a proper thriving one w/ competition. Not the pseudo-monopoly of Telstra over here. Which basically chose *not* to do any upgrades since it was cheaper/profitable to hold a status quo w/ minimal work outside of "keep the lines running"
We are talking about a company that basically said they throttled HFC speed at a time of growth because "it was more profitable and did not see the need for the customer to have access to said speeds". The same company that did such a cheapskate job that led to the term "RIM Hell" for folks who want ADSL in metro areas. This is the wonderful "private sector" that we should be relying on?
Australia's isolation allows our "private sector" to have very closed markets which means the provider not the consumer dictates control. However just because the provider finds it more economically "cheaper" to defer upgrades doesn't mean the world around is will be standing still.
Albo should have used this argument with Pyne on Q&A the other night.
Yep, the MTM should always state 25 Mbps* with the emphasis on the asterisk.
Link
1. The rollout should never have been done using major contractors.
That's all very interesting Mark but that doesn't change the fact that you believed Labor's NBN could take up to 2031 to be completed.
By the way, how come you never mentioned the contractor model during your Wendy Harmer interview this morning?
I really really hope Labor ditches Malcolm Turbulls mess when they win the election, I don't want to pay for a 100/40 plan and potentially only get 30/20. With fibre if I pay for a 100/40 plan that is what I would get.
That's all very interesting Mark but that doesn't change the fact that you believed Labor's NBN could take up to 2031 to be completed.
How long is it going to take lnp to complete 93% fttp?
https://radio.abc.net.au/pr
Wendy Harmer questioning Gregory this morning about why on earth Malcolm Turnbull be doing something as destructive as rolling out FTTN, if what Gregory says is correct, just highlights how naive and trusting too many people are of some of our so called leaders, to do the right thing when it comes to the National Interest of Australia and what is good for the Economy.
Bloody brilliant Gregory.
Harmer questioning Gregory on his political connections was just lovely.
The question on upload speeds and the loss of business from not having good enough upload speeds by one called was great to hear.
How long is it going to take lnp to complete 93% fttp?
If we were to switch back to FTTP now then NBN Co says it would take until 2026 to complete the NBN.
the MTM should always state 25 Mbps*
The ridiculousness of this is that I could already get 25Mbps now, instead of waiting til at least 2019...
My current ADSL downstream rate is ~1450Kbps.
With a bonded ADSL service, I could easily get the 25Mbps, though I probably shouldn't mention this to any LNP member!!
If we were to switch back to FTTP now then NBN Co says it would take until 2026 to complete the NBN.
So we'd get there much sooner than continuing with MTM first?
So we'd get there much sooner
*Waits for the obligatory 'completed by 2020' comment*
NBN Co have always had the flexibility to change the proportions so that satellite could be 3% and FW be on 4% and vice versa.
Yet you don't have figures to back that up..!
that is not what Malcolm says, he has stated on numerous occassions that the end goal IS fibre
The goal of the NBN is not to build a fibre network. The purpose of the NBN was, apparently, to allow others to compete against Telstra and to deliver better broadband to underserved areas (mainly rural and remote Australia) at a basic wholesale price equivalent to those in the capital cities.
The 7% of premises on FW and satellite remains the same.
How is that mathematically possible given that areas have gone from FTTP to satellite?
The goal of the NBN is not to build a fibre network. The purpose of the NBN was, apparently, tallow others to compete against Telstra and to deliver better broadband to underserved areas (mainly rural and remote Australia) at a basic wholesale price equivalent to those in the capital cities.
words fail me as to your total misunderstanding of the original project
You even use the word "apparently" in describing its goals, so you have no flipping idea, you are just making stuff up
The goal of the NBN is not to build a fibre network.
What is your goal in repeatedly posting this fallacy?
At least Fixed Wireless and Sky Muster are decent services.
Yep. Got to give Labor big credit for that right? Turnbull didn't even want the satellites. All the connections on fixed wireless and satellite are thanks to Labors policy. The Libs added nothing new. They are taking credit for riding on the coattails of Labor though.
Turnbull has said it is.
All around the world, the same thing is being said. They are heading in that direction with their rollout because of the obvious benefits. Its sad the Libs and their supporters are making it so hard to get there, and that it seems we now have fibre deniers as well as climate change deniers amongst their ranks. Doesn't augur well for their future.
How is that mathematically possible given that areas have gone from FTTP to satellite?
Anywhere from 6.5% to 7.4999999999999999% is 7% as far as KingForce's simplistic claim is concerned... if we're talking about 12 million premises that means that anything less than (or "up to" for the MTM fans) 120,000 premises can be shifted without invalidating the claim.
Of course the fact that the satellites were designed for only about double or triple that number of customers altogether is neither here nor there...
Whilst you appear to be happy to criticize and there is nothing wrong with that if it is constructive, please take the time to let me know how you would get Australia back into the top 10 in the world for average peak download speeds before the decade ends and on the podium for leadership in the digital economy.
I am interested in this answer as well seeing as we are supposed to believe fibre is not the end game. Hard to climb up on that podium that will be filled with countries using fibre, when we aren't supposed be building a fibre network ourselves. What magic is going to see our copper compete with fibre?
You even use the word "apparently" in describing its goals, so you have no flipping idea, you are just making stuff up
Basically we are getting trollolllold. 93% Fibre and 7% wireless as the original NBN.
It was that simple really.
Arg.
Today's Department of Australia article is on point...
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
This is what I believe -> http://johnmenadue.com/blog/?p=6536
Which basically accuses the government of a cover up and you infer that the police didn't do their job properly.
Of course, the leaks added nothing substantial to the NBN debate. For example, the progress of the NBN can easily be accessed through NBN Co's website. In fact, in your interview this morning, you've admitted that NBN Co are reaching targets. You say that targets were set too low but I say they were readjusted to something more realistic.
If we were to switch back to FTTP now then NBN Co says it would take until 2026 to complete the NBN.
Even if that were the case (and it's not, because NBN are lying about it), it's a far better idea to rollout one network that will last at least 50+ years for $50-60b than rollout an incompetent network for $50-60b that needs replacing after merely 10 years because it can't cope.
I've never supported the NBN. I'm one of the 15% that are sceptical.
You mean you are one of the 6% who will vote Liberal and not support an NBN.
Ideally, the Coalition/Labor should cut back the scope of the NBN and cut government services to help pay for any losses on our investment.
Ideally, we should ditch Turnbull MTM and forge ahead with a sensible plan to get us to a future of fibre. Labors NBN was going to provide a valuable and future-proof asset from taxpayer funds. The Libs simply will not. That is what we need to address, Liberals waste of taxpayer funds. What is their MTM policy for the next election? It look like its still copper or bust. Actually the reality is its coppers doing a bust is the best they can muster! :) Secrecy must rule the day. No problem with that though right Kingforce?
Of course
You keep using those words. I do not think they mean, what you think they mean :P
You even use the word "apparently" in describing its goals, so you have no flipping idea, you are just making stuff up
It's an interpretation of the 2010 NBN Co Statement of Expectations. Yes, I know the competition and cross subsidy reasons behind the NBN sounds less sexy but that is the purpose of the NBN.
You even use the word "apparently"
No, I use the word "apparently" because � according to Whirlpool theory � other ISPs couldn't compete against Telstra on their own, they needed massive government intervention to do the job.
I note that satellite users are having problem relating to quotas and contention. Most likely caused by Malcolm's decision to reduce fixed line access to many users who were getting FTTP with Labor's plan. This overload problem will only get worse over time.
Of course, the leaks added nothing substantial to the NBN debate
http://img.photobucket.com/a
How's those < 14 people happy with FTTN going for yu?
http://www.aph.gov.au/~/m
For example, the progress of the NBN can easily be accessed through NBN Co's website.
OK, so then, you should be able to find the figures for fttp, fttn , hfc, fixed wireless and satellite
She hinted that you might be too political.
Since when has being politically biased been an issue for you?
You've done well for yourself given you illiteracy and innumeracy problems then. ;)
Keep up the good work.
carefull Dutton will try and revoke your visa, citizenship and just be very careful how you answer this question "did you in arrive Australia by boat"
You should have been here when Labor was in charge. The public had to wait for every four months to get official figures!
As opposed to waiting every 4 years under the LNP?
We havn't had anything solid, no forecasts that were accurate. Everything is just a dark secret with the MTM.
I'm not even sure we are getting anything on the 56 billion dollars spent.
The tax payers and Australian's deserve better.
Keep digging.
Careful...He may dig up your fibre, if he digs far enough! ;)
-----------------------------
What I don't understand, is why the ALP � Should they win in July, don't just stop the FTTN rollout at whatever state it's at, in July, immediately commence FTTP/H rollout again, and once everyone is on the NBN, go back and restore the FTTN connections, to FTTP/H.
This seems like the most sensible route to go, instead of TRYING FTTdp, or combining both the rollout of FTTP/H as well as 'fixing' FTTN simultaneously, does it not?
As opposed to waiting every 4 years under the LNP?
Excuse me but you obviously haven't been to the NBN web site where you can find hundreds of useless blogs that will help you in whatever you are searching for...
/s (I'm not being sarcastic about the useless blogs though.. they truly are useless)
Sigh I can see where he's coming from, but so many points that have been debunked keep get thrown around in these "opinion" pieces.
If only people actually studied the topic before writing opinion pieces..
Too much to ask?
TRYING FTTdp
Is similar to trying fttn, it's just a shorter length of copper (less than 100m). They still need power and you're only saving on running a connection direct to the house. Seems like a waste to me.
As the taxi driver said, �Mate this election is about food on the table and a debt-free future for the kids � not this NBN rubbish that will all be sorted anyway.�
So a person who has a great deal to lose with the inevitable deregulation and eventual robot automation of his job has a negative opinion about the nbn. Who saw that coming?
NBN on ABC 702 starting at 37:40
Thanks for posting that Mark. It's a shame that they didn't take more callers. I note that discussion goes through to 59:00.
Wendy Harmer: "We have so many callers really I wasn't really able to put many on in the time given ..."
Would have been interesting to hear the concerns of more callers and the chance for those that have been influenced by the LNP FUD to have heard the rational responses that Mark provides to rebut the FUD.
Seen one on a node which is a worthy fizza
Seen a few around its hilariously funny and a genius who drew it.
Shame they have been scrapped off. Maybe MT getting his crew to do the dirty work again.
I would be more concerned about the private debt your kids will be left with because of insanely high housing and education costs. After all it is the private debt that is the greatest danger. Malcolm has no intention of dealing with the issue
As the taxi driver said, �Mate this election is about food on the table and a debt-free future for the kids � not this NBN rubbish that will all be sorted anyway.�
Well when you know nothing about anything ..... driving a cab is one of the few careers available.
I would be more concerned about
I think you're in the wrong place...You want this thread, instead:
As it says at the top of every page, in this thread:
Discussion needs to be "NBN" related, not other politics
Not sure whether it's true or not, but....
IN the context it was true .... about the stuff up with the FTTN rollout in the Hunter from memory.
By way of balance does anyone know anywhere where an FTTN rollout has gone well and resulted in happy customers?
Excuse me but you obviously haven't been to the NBN web site where you can find hundreds of useless blogs that will help you in whatever you are searching for...
/s (I'm not being sarcastic about the useless blogs though.. they truly are useless)
What that site is still up?
Time and time I have been fed bullshit and disappointed, I stopped visiting few months after MTM took charge. Probably no coincidence there.
By way of balance
I've been trawling the NBN section of WP for a while now, and while there have been 'satisfied' comments, they're incredibly scattered, and in the majority of cases, surrounded on both sides, by people with problems and complaints.
I would speculate that the people with the shortest copper run from the node to the premises have some hope of being happy for a time. This of course is the crux of the issue. The dead end nature of the MTM. There is just nowhere left for it to go.
NBN web site where you can find hundreds of useless blogs
The blogs have a purpose, just not one that most of us find useful. It's a marketing tool designed to reach the "undecided" with the "gee wiz" of nbn to convince them to connect to this nbn thing they've heard about instead of staying an mobile-only or no-Internet household.
Whilst you appear to be happy to criticize and there is nothing wrong with that if it is constructive, please take the time to let me know how you would get Australia back into the top 10 in the world for average peak download speeds before the decade ends and on the podium for leadership in the digital economy.
crickets ....
Fair enough. But if NBN Co should do all their work in-house then why you didn't mention the contractor model during the Wendy Harmer interview?
Answer:
And I tried to get as much as possible into the interview, there were many things that did not fit in ...
She hinted that you might be too political.
Actually Wendy Harmer hinted no such thing at all � there were callers that wanted to know. Mark answered this. Unfortunately people like yourself Kingee just cannot comprehend that there might be people in Australia that want the best and most cost effective telecommunications infrastructure rolled out across Australia. Unfortunately again the NBN has been politicised by both parties. All experts agree FttP is what should be being done. Turnbull and Fifield have been deaf to this advice.
But you obviously had enough time to mention that Malcolm Turnbull was deliberately wrecking the NBN.
To industry experts this is simply a fact.
I've argued that the HFC using DOCSIS 3.0 should be upgraded and added to the NBN as a temporary measure whilst the FTTP is rolled out everywhere else and when this is done the HFC should be decommissioned and replaced with FTTP.
I think (hope) Labor will have a look at this. Done properly it could be a quick, cost-effective, short to medium term solution to allow the NBNCo to focus on FTTP elsewhere. If it's limited to residential areas then it probably doesn't need to deliver more than (say) 50/10.
I've never argued that the HFC should be upgraded later, and I've argued many times that the DOCSIS 3.1 upgrade could end up costing more than anyone imagines
Yep. The Coalition's mistake is to think HFC is a long term solution.
You should have been here when Labor was in charge. The public had to wait for every four months to get official figures!
I had to wait 3 years to find out if and when I'd be receiving anything after being mysteriously removed from the NBN Maps (with construction due to commence status) the moment this current mob was elected. That's 3 years of silence, zip, zero, nothing! 3 years after construction was suppose to commence for the real NBN in the area under Labor!
Turnbull got it right for Terry McCann's Murdoch owned businesses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/
Turnbull got it right on NBN
failed all-fibre $100 billion-plus fantasy of Kevin Rudd and Stephen Conroy.
Licensed to lie.
provided the current MTM � Multi-Technology Mix of fibre, HFC (hybrid fibre coaxial), and targeted and still very effective copper � build continues, almost all of Australia and just about every Australian will be connected by 2020.
"will". Not even the Minister or NBN would dare use the word "will" in that sentence.
McCann "will" most likely be wrong in using that word "will".
He obviously has on concept of "risk".
You should have been here when Labor was in charge. The public had to wait for every four months to get official figures!
I would have had it by now...
This sort of blind irrational partisanship is a disease that seems to have infected us and the USA. Blind to all facts and intelligent argument. Blind to fairness and logic. All the setup time required for any major project is just ignored. that's why I hate elections, its all about "me" not Australia.
I would argue it is still the most important progress indicator.
It depends where you are in the reporting hierarchy. The joint oversight committee just wanted to know how many premises for each technology were going to be RFS at each quarter and how many would have active services, and the actuals against those targets. They didn't care about construction commenced and neither should they imo. That's for people lower down the management chain.
I think the biggest problem with construction commenced was that it started at such an early stage, initial design iirc. That's meaningless other than at the lower levels of management.
What I wanted to know, and what I want to know now, is when am I going to be RFS. I don't care when you put pen to paper for initial design. Just tell me when I will be able to get a service. With Labor that was all. With the Coalition I also want to know what technology I will get.
The weekly progress reports for example tell us nothing of the February 2016 shortfall in Final Detailed Design approvals being half of the target figure expected for that date.
I think weekly reporting is ridiculous. Monthly forecasts for the next six months, quarterly for the twelve months after that plus two and three years out should be ok for an oversight committee. For me, just show me what I'm getting and when based on those forecasts.
I hope Mr McCann does not consider himself a journalist. I would get onto the ACCC about labeling laws if that was the case. Journalist report facts and understanding behind those facts- not regurgitate Tea Party propaganda,
guys i was in NBN forum with Gai brodtman mp and stephen jones mp , bill shorten will announce the nbn policy very soon
I hope Mr McCann does not consider himself a journalist
I stopped reading the Herald Scum and their conservative influenced anti-NBN reporting long ago. McCrann is just another Murdoch conservative puppet.
guys how i can see the video for senator conroy ? he spoke at 7pm on sky news !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tonight on the show, Labor's Stephen Conroy speaks out for the first time since police raided his Melbourne office. 7pm on Sky News Australia
this is the link : https://twitter.com/SkyNewsAu
McCann "will" most likely be wrong in using that word "will".
Opps Terry McCann was the Dennis Watermann's "Minder" in the UK TV show "Minder",
a British comedy-drama about the London criminal underworld.
Sorry Terry McCrann.
http://www.celebrity
Edit. Sorry Dennis. Your early. Not late.
The joint oversight committee just wanted to know how many premises for each technology were going to be RFS at each quarter and how many would have active services, and the actuals against those targets.
And as was stated, such targets in the initial stages of the rollout are so low as to be virtually meaningless. I dont know about you but I consider myself to be a part of the 'extended oversight committee'. I don't really care so much about what has been done, I am more interested in what is being done.
I think the biggest problem with construction commenced was that it started at such an early stage, initial design iirc.
I understand the argument but think that a detailed understanding of the construction stages renders it moot. This argument has been done. nbnTM have changed the single 'construction commenced' metric into two separate metrics, 'build prep' and 'build commenced'. This was readily understood by getting to the next level of detail in what comprised the initial 'construction commenced' metric, the various stages were clearly articulated.
The real issue is that there is no publicly available data for either of these new metrics (that I am aware of). I understand some of this information is available to RSPs to allow them to plan for new areas coming online (I think this is where jxeeno gets his data for his superior website).
What I wanted to know, and what I want to know now, is when am I going to be RFS.
I agree, to a point. How is the nbn website working for you in that regard? However, I am already connected. I don't know about you, but I am still very interested in how the remainder of the rollout is progressing.
I think weekly reporting is ridiculous.
Weekly reporting for actuals is a single database query, automatically generated. If it isn't, someone needs to be sacked. It is the easy part of progress reporting, thats why the company is doing it. The issue is that it says very little about the stuff in progress.
Monthly forecasts for the next six months, quarterly for the twelve months after that plus two and three years out should be ok for an oversight committee.
I would argue it should be monthly updates for the 'construction commenced' (or 'build prep' and 'build commenced' if you prefer) and quarterly updates for the 'three year forecasts'.
For me, just show me what I'm getting and when based on those forecasts.
I want to know the state of the overall project (and not just because I am already connected).
And as was stated, such targets in the initial stages of the rollout are so low as to be virtually meaningless.
I disagree. You plan and measure from the start. The numbers might be small but they're still important. Missing early targets could be a sign of things to come. Detect it early and fix it early.
The real issue is that there is no publicly available data for either of these new metrics ...
Yep. Under Labor the metric was meaningless. Under the Coalition it's not reported.
I agree, to a point. How is the nbn website working for you in that regard?
I meant "I" in the general not in the specific. What I think people want to know is when they will be able to connect. I have never been on the visible schedule.
Weekly reporting for actuals is a single database query, automatically generated.
On a project of this nature, weekly reporting to the public or a steering committee is meaningless. There are way too many fluctuations at that level. It can only misinform.
I would argue it should be monthly updates for the 'construction commenced' (or 'build prep' and 'build commenced' if you prefer) and quarterly updates for the 'three year forecasts'.
Monthly updates are only relevant if you have monthly targets. So, set targets and then report against them. We're not far out on the timeframes.
I want to know the state of the overall project (and not just because I am already connected).
As I said, I meant "I" as a random member of the public. It's what I think any member of the public wants from the NBNCo. afaik we've never had it.
This sort of blind irrational partisanship is a disease
A disease called money...he is literally a paid shill.
I was at an economic update today and an economist was talking about how Australia debt to GDP is very low when compared to the rest of the world and we should be borrowing at record low interest rates to fund infrastructure.
I thought of the NBN...I got sad.
guys i was in NBN forum with Gai brodtman mp and stephen jones mp , bill shorten will announce the nbn policy very soon
Sorry ACTfireman (previous handle User 565319 I believe) if I take your posts with a grain of salt based on your track record.
Opps Terry McCann was the late Dennis Watermann's "Minder" in the UK TV show "Minder",
You gave me a scare there Phg. I just googled it up and it was his Minder co-star George Cole who passed last year aged 90. Dennis Waterman is still with us, thankfully, as is MTM.
Dennis Waterman is still with us, thankfully ...
I didn't think I heard that Dennis had kicked the bucket either. Thanks for checking and clarifying that.
... thankfully, as is MTM.
Did you actually mean that part?
The numbers might be small but they're still important.
The issue is that missing the target by a few days or a week early in such a rollout is not necessarily indicative of significant problems. It is just as likely to be indicative that the selected construction areas may have deviated to the high side of the assumed norm.
Under Labor the metric was meaningless.
What nonsense. By assigning a start date to each FSAM it became impossible to gloss over issues as they arose in the rollout. According to management the early issues that arose were in the design and remediation phases rather than the actual construction phase. Could this have been detected under the new regime? Of course more granularity will lead to increased clarity.
Under the Coalition it's not reported.
But nothing can be detected if it is not reported.
weekly reporting to the public or a steering committee is meaningless. There are way too many fluctuations at that level. It can only misinform.
Simply applying a rolling average to weekly fluctuations gives useful information. Actuals should be reported at the smallest reasonable frequency, as they become known.
Monthly updates are only relevant if you have monthly targets.
I don't agree. I think quarterly targets with monthly construction updates provides a level of granularity that will allow interested observers to track the rollout progress.
I welcome the additional granularity nbnTM have introduced into the rollout metrics. It is sad that they don't report publicly against them.
What nonsense.
We disagree. Fair enough. I fear we're off topic. Happy to continue if we're not. I suspect we'll come back to where we are though.
the is link for the video https://www.facebook.com/theb
Did you actually mean that part?
Had to say something to keep the post on-topic :-). But yes, I meant it: MTM is still with us, as is Dennis Waterman for which I am thankful. You can figure out which one I'm thankful for.
The world is being dumbed down politically and its getting worse
How rubbish is the future becoming
+100
The thing is, whatever they are fishing for doesn't exist.
I think you don't understand what they are fishing for.
I do not think they are fishing for actual answers, just which arguments that they or others can use that need very technical or datailed answers to disprove and so most people will either not understand or will switch off to especially if it is in a verbal setting like a public meeting or a kiosk.
You currently see Government Ministers standing there telling bald face mistruths with such conviction that people seem to believe them as facts, SoMo and Mathias the other day, they couldn't even get their claimed "black hole" of Labor policies consistent, some of it even differed to what Bishop had commented on re "foreign aid" the previous day, yet people are taken in.
Labor Pollies do not seem to be able to have that "authority" even when telling the truth
Fifield, Morrow and Turnabull tell huge porkies about MTM and are never challanged
Clare, Shorten and others start to tell what appears to be facts and get interupted mid sentance, thus breaking up their response
I think the Libs have all been hypnotised so that not only do they believe the "mistruths" are true but that they can now mesmerise anyone facing them directly, maybe interviewers need to keep their eyes closed
But it hurts their brain to have any logical thought.
Slogans and mantra's all that matters and bugger any actual thought.
The world is being dumbed down politically and its getting worse.
And that's freaking scary as the trend of anti-intellectual elitism is growing.
The NBN is being dumbed down to the MTM.
How rubbish is the future becoming.
There is a glimmer of hope, thanks to the internet. The current generation growing up are much more savy than the later generations. A lot of them seek truth and can google for answers.
The articles on main stream media with comments allowed shows how much anger there is on the MTM. This extends to other political articles, even the one regarding the joke Bill shorten made about spend-o-meter.
The public are seeing through the bullshit of the LNP. Its all talk and attack. NO SOUND Policies. The public may not like Bill Shorten, but they are the ones coming up with plans to provide something for this nation.
LNP, just slogans and attack another party. Nothing of substance. Like seriously, please come up with a policy or something you intend to do if they get a second term. The LNP are so dangerous to this country, god help us if they win a second term.
I find it funny that Karina is tweeting 5g broadband, whilst rolling out fttn..
https://mobile.twitter.com/k
Fifield, Morrow and Turnabull tell huge porkies about MTM and are never challanged
Clare, Shorten and others start to tell what appears to be facts and get interupted mid sentance, thus breaking up their response
This should warrant an ICAC / Royal Commission investigation.
Because making public statements that are lies to deliberately deceive the public (tax payers that fund the project) is fraud.
If I was running a publicly listed company on the ASX. I come out and make bold statements about meeting targets, the company is sound etc etc. But the books are all cooked, numbers are all fudged up. You would be charged with fraud and will be going to jail.
It should be no different to the NBN, a proper audit is required each year. Just like when the ALP was running it.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Herald Sun columnist McCrann gets key facts wrong in NBN attack
By Renai LeMay � 26/05/2016
news Herald Sun columnist Terry McCrann has published an article praising Malcolm Turnbull�s stewardship of the NBN project as his �greatest and unqualified achievement in Government�, but has based his argument on a number of inaccurate statements regarding the project.
itching the NBN�s model away from Labor�s FTTP approach and to a �Multi-Technology Mix� model which re-uses the copper and HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus, Turnbull has been able to successfully reform the project.
However, the columnist appears to have made a number of basic factual errors in his article.
The most glaring problem is that McCrann appears to attribute much of the progress which the NBN rollout has made over the past two and a half years since the Coalition has been in power to Turnbull�s NBN strategy, noting that the NBN announced this week that it has about a million customers, compared to about 100,000 when the Coalition took power.
However, the columnist does not appear to have informed readers that the vast majority of those customers are connected to Labor�s original FTTP model. The Coalition has made little progress so far connecting customers to its MTM technologies.
there's more.. read on..
People like McCrann, Bolt would never let facts get in the way of a big lie (by definition)
Herald Sun columnist McCrann gets key facts wrong in NBN attack
By Renai LeMay � 26/05/2016
The common thread here is that we see News Limited pushed article after article slamming the Labor NBN and making fake claims about how good the Liberal one is. And we are going to see more. Wait until Labor releases their policies and how it looks then.
The common thread here is that we see News Limited pushed article after article slamming the Labor NBN
We really need to shake up media moguls in this country. They have far too much power and influence.
Hopefully only to the converted they are preaching to.
http://www.lifehacker.com.au
On ABC�s Q&A this week, Christopher Pyne said the Coalition�s multi-technology NBN was fast enough for households to watch �five movies simultaneously�. Disregarding the irony of an innovation minister apparently missing the point of the national broadband network, the position is optimistic at best. Here�s why.
Read on
Why are Turnbull, Fifield and Morrow hiding NBN's problems from public scrutiny and why is the Coalition hell bent on �demolishing� this nation�s future as a leader in the digital economy?
In order for the coalition to be so hell-bent on this MTM nonsense, there HAS TO BE some kind of dark, shadowy presence, lurking in the deepest recesses of the LNP, who has far more than just a 'vested interest' in the inevitable failure of the NBN.
I mean, in all seriousness: Malcolm Turnbull is not a technological idjit � He knows full well that relying on copper, is beyond pathetic, but keeps touting it, as if someone had a gun to his dog.
There has to be someone or something, pulling his strings, and I don't think it's Chris Pyne � He IS a technological idjit!!
http://www.budde.com.au/News
Can we please have a rethink of the NBN soon after the election?
I will be the first to accept that with any new system there are teething problems, but, talking to the councils in the affected areas, none of them are happy. And they are all becoming increasingly confused about the NBN as a whole.
http://www.budde.com.au/New
This is one I'd like to see talked about ...
It is highly unlikely that the NBN company of itself will ever be able to provide the return on investment the government had hoped for, so let�s face reality, write off at least a large part of it, ...
There is no reason, other than privatisation, the NBNCo needs to make any return on investment to government. The government can get a return many times over from using a FTTP NBN to deliver services and from the GDP growth that will inevitably occur. That should be enough. They're happy with that approach for roads, why not the NBN?
Drop the need for the NBNCo to deliver a return directly and the NBNCo can reduce or even scrap CVC charges. That would take the artificial handbrake off FTTP and even more indirect benefits would flow.
The problem is the Coalition. They won't entertain the idea in government and in opposition they and their MTM backers would do everything they could to make it difficult for Labor. I very, very rarely wish ill on anyone but the world will be a better place when Rupert Murdoch departs.
I find it funny that Karina is tweeting 5g broadband, whilst rolling out fttn..
https://mobile.twitter.com/
So who is she working for?? Can't be NBN Co as they specifically do not do mobiles.
Is she now looking for a job back with Telstra or maybe Vodaphone...after the leaked docs raid debacle...
Lol, everyone who has a node near them should redecorate them like this!!!
Lol, everyone who has a node near them should redecorate them like this!!!
What aaaaaa fiizzzzaaaaaa
http://www.nvi.com.au/story/
It�s time for Mr Joyce to show some fibre and step up to explain to the people of the New England electorate where the rollout of the NBN is at and why it has stalled,� Mr Windsor said.
We really need to shake up media moguls in this country. They have far too much power and influence.
And yet we see Fifield and the LNP wanting to remove media ownership laws. Its utterly disgraceful. The media bias in this country is so right wing its crazy. The ABC with Leigh sales pandering like a little school girl to Turnbulls evey lie allowing him to say pretty much whatever he likes uncontested, and yet when shorten is on, when he tries to answer a question, she is straight down his throat so that he barely even gets a chance to respond, and cuts him off on every answer. Its crazy. How is Terry McCrans rubbish opinion piece even allowed in print, let alone any media? its disgraceful. We need an ICAC into the media in oz.
With NBN in particular it is not the cost to build that matters, it is the cost of not building the right network NOW!!
+100000 precisely.
MTM is a Monumental Terrible Mistake.
And businesses home or not is going to suffer the fate of the reliability issues from the MTM.
A great way to hurt profits to any kind of business who rely's on the internet.
Who supports the MTM does not support the digital economy and local businesses who rely on fast and reliable internet.
No wonder its heavily labeled as fraudband.
But I am also preaching to the choir apart from the MTM shills.
MTM shills.
Who still haven't acknowledged the cost and time blow outs.
The LNP promised 29.5 billion for 25mbs by 2016 � it's been linked to before and I'll do it again:
http://www.abc.net.au/mediaw
Our goal is for every household and business to have access to broadband with a download data rate of between 25 and 100 megabits per second by late 2016 and between 50 and 100 megabits per second by 2019. Downloads average less than five megabits per second at present.
Required funding $29.5 billion
This is the promise and they can't possibly live up to it.
What do the LNP supporters think about this � I see them blaming the ALP and yet they haven't even acknowledge that the now pm royally screwed the country.
Our goal is for every household and business to have access to broadband with a download data rate of between 25 and 100 megabits per second by late 2016 and between 50 and 100 megabits per second by 2019. Downloads average less than five megabits per second at present.
Required funding $29.5 billion
Malcolm Turnbull the useless oxygen thief fizzy scumbag lowered the targets and still missed.
Now its up-to-25mbits to all by 2016 (4 drop outs need not matter, its working fine), and 56 billion dollars in the red.
I too say we don't waste money on fibre that will sit in the ground for the next 60 years without needing to be touched;
Fibre will be used extensivly in all areas. The life of fibre networks is in the range of 60 yrs, but the demand outstrips the capabilities, and the networks are abandoned in place.
This is what should have happened with the copper network.
rather we invest less money into FTTN and HFC which will be replaced with fibre anyway in 10-15 years?
1. Investing money in FTTN has proven not to be an investment. It will not return a profit before it is required to be replaced. When Labour and Nats suggested a FTTN network, that was in the last years of viability of this type of network, which would have an operational life of ~10 yrs.
2. The Govt has stated there are no upgrades planned. With FTTN, an 'upgrade' is a replacement of the entire network. With HFC, there are some (expensive) upgrades available, but an FTTP upgrade is also a complete replacement of the network. ie Rebuild the NBN.
3. FTTP has already been shown to be profitable and improve the economy.
4. IF there is a 'clean' network port in every home, services that do not even exist now (and those that depend on dialup) can be developed nation wide. These services do not exist now, and often cannot be envisioned.
For a company to push them now would be like staffing a ski lift in summer. No business, and few could imagine the transformation comming.
The question is not can we afford FTTP now, but can the economy stand not installing it.
According to LNP, it is just an enetertainment network. This has been repeated by many ministers now, including our 'Science and Innovation' minister. This clearly demonstrates that lack of vision.
Labour have said that NBN is a network over which improved services can be delivered.
Clearly shows the difference in the ability to see beyond the next election.
Who still haven't acknowledged the cost and time blow outs.
The LNP promised 29.5 billion for 25mbs by 2016 � it's been linked to before and I'll do it again:
Fifield has stated that it is on time and under budget.
And he said it with a straight face!. It was an Oscar winning performance.
Fifield has stated that it is on time and under budget.
And he said it with a straight face!. It was an Oscar winning performance.
the promise was actually "by the end of our first term" according to Tony's speech
their first term is over, they are only in "caretaker mode"
FAIL
interesting liberal voters support it even more!! dont tell GMZ or kingy though
fraudband
A missed opportunity for someone to publicly remind Nash of that coinage while Malcolm was on stage.
According to LNP, it is just an enetertainment network. This has been repeated by many ministers now, including our 'Science and Innovation' minister. This clearly demonstrates that lack of vision.
True, but they have to push the lowest common denominator capability because that justifies their MTM build . If they fool everyone that is all that is needed then they did it right � winners!! What fools!!
interesting liberal voters support it even more!! dont tell GMZ or kingy though
The question ...
"Based on what you've heard, do you support or oppose the National Broadband Network (NBN), and will it influence your vote at the upcoming federal election?"
... allows people who support the MTM version of the NBN to answer "yes". Pretty meaningless really imo.
Fifield has stated that it is on time and under budget.
And he said it with a straight face!. It was an Oscar winning performance.
And Telstra said they are $3B short on the Turnbull's renegotiated Agreement because of the FTTN MTM delay to start and the failure to launch where they have started. So how can the MTM build possibly be on time and on budget? Fifield and Turnbull are simply telling lies.
Not only are there major problems getting customers connected (lost revenue and unnecessary costs) the network performance is poor and unreliable with customers claiming they would have been better off staying with ADSL. Onlookers are declining to connect at all less select a higher level plan so less revenue again.
Customers are also recognising they have to pay for 100/50 to get even half that speed and are left feeling ripped of (quite rightly) as FTTP customers who pay for 100/40 get pretty much what they pay for.
MTM version of the NBN to answer "yes". Pretty meaningless really imo.
The meaning of NBN has been hijacked by The Liberals Fraudband Branding There is no national left in it, there is no Broad left in it (just a dribble of bytes And it is not a network any more, it's just a collection of cobbled together bits and pieces. that maybe work some of the time every 24 hours.
If you live in Melbourne you might find this interesting
http://networkeds
4ever fraudband
NBN costs have blown out to $56 billion. Turnbull�s NBN has taken twice as long and double the cost to deliver half the speed promised. Yet, as the AFP raid last week makes clear, or its inspection of Peter Young's phone records, the Turnbull government is quick to invoke national security law to deal with the political embarrassment of being held accountable.
If the neoliberal Liberal Prime Minister's visit to Corangamite will do little to assuage voters' real concerns, let alone ease their suffering, his NBN and his government's approach to whistle-blowers will do even less for their peace of mind.
Does one deduce Mr Young is the whistleblower? Not seen that on the NBN Raid thread as yet....
Wonder if Mr Turnbull and Mr Fifield will face similar scrutiny as to why their nbn MTM is "...taking twice as long, double the cost and delivering half the speed promised..."
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Spot on as someone said earlier (sorry cannot find the post).
Because private spending on Australia's telecoms is so fantastic...
Of those 499, it added, 416 towers �are in Liberal and Nationals� electorates�.
Derp
There is no differentiation between NBN and nbn MTM in that poll as far as I can see, so before Kingy and Zealot get started with the "nbn" in the url there they should contain their mis-placed excitement and spare us all the usual carry on.
Does one deduce Mr Young is the whistleblower?
No, at least not with regard to NBN. Dr Young spoke publicly about another matter: http://www.smh.com.au/federal
http://networkedsociety.uni
Thanks Mark. Looks like it will be very interesting. Will be interesting if any media outlet bothers to attend...any online access to it, live or otherwise? Should be video recorded at least for distribution somehow.
Must say it must be absolutely painful for Quigley to watch the disaster evolving, particularly with current MTM rollout failures knowing what could have been.
The issue is that the LNP will not own up to theirs.
The LNP set the mistakes in concrete when they privatised Telstra.
Howard was rolling in money but what could he do once he'd flogged off Telstra? He sure as hell wasn't going to overbuild their network or buy it back. He couldn't (and didn't) allow Telstra to roll out FTTN and raise retail prices and kill competition completely. He well and truly painted us into a corner.
For all the things I've said about Conroy, his NBNCo and FTTP was a real game changer. The Coalition would never have had the cojones to do it. They still haven't.
Election 2016: iSentia analysis shows NBN raids, asylum seekers and leadership dominated the media
Thanks Mal/Fifield!
This clearly explains why Abbott failed and now Turnbull � votes first=handouts, and real, valuable, productive infrastructure like NBN which take more than one electoral cycle are incidental...unless its roads you can pork barrel with......
In hindsight it's so obvious now. In 1996, Howard and his Comm Minister Coonan were not the visionaries that were needed to appreciate the potential. Besides they probably had the puppet master keen on protecting the HFC being rolled out.
Australia has been, and continues to be, a cash cow to be milked for all it's worth. These monied interests spend big on a certain party to ensure that Australia continues to be held in this place.
It's appalling, but not surprising, to me that politicians [and others behind the scenes] have insufficient pride in Australia to rise above this kind of sycophancy.
This is demonstrated in the utter determination to keep Australia locked out of a viable and modern comms system so that the legacy system can continue to be squeezed of every drop of money it can yield. What we've seen is not stumbling and bumbling around, but a vicious campaign to ensure that profits come ahead of national benefits.
I've "leaked" a post far below from Delimiter that is the sort of thing that the Federal Oppositions should be hammering both the Federal Government and NBN Co on for allowing this to happen and attacking back at the crap that is being published about the speed tier take-up.
Shorten has got some some guts and demonstrated leadership skills to call Trump "barking mad". So how come he and his team keep on wimping out on full frontal attacks on some of the "barking mad" NBN/MTM/Broadband opinions in the media?
Likewise with Renai LeMay's
the columnist appears to have made a number of basic factual errors in his article.
is again a wimpish response to this fellow Journalist's particular opinion.
It's though there is an unwritten rule to go easy on fellow/competitor so called media writers/columnists/journalists, and only Politician's are fair game. "Journalists" going too easy on each other smacks of self censorship.
A commenter on Delimiter writes
I have a response to Terry MCcrann, Matthew and anyone else who trots out that crap about people who choose lower speeds.
I am in a FTTP area from leftover Labor contracts. Yesterday I went to the Telstra business centre to discuss a time for the box to be put on the inside of my house. I had already looked in the Telstra docs and NOT ONE MENTION ABOUT SPEEDS. Then the guy at the centre DID NOT WANT TO GIVE ME A SPEED EITHER. I pressed him � I said which speed am I on? He was like a fortune cookie. He said you get twice what you have now. No, I said, give me a choice of speeds. �I can�t guarantee a speed�. Blah blah.
In other words, ISPs in Australia do everything possible, fair or foul, to leave you with the lowest speed option because they know that they are overselling. This is the real world. This is how it works. I know because I saw it happen yesterday when I spoke to a Telstra official. Matthew, McCrann et al have no bloody idea what the hell they are talking about.
Shorten has got some some guts and demonstrated leadership skills to call Trump "barking mad".
On the contrary, this says to me that Shorten is a part of the system that wants to keep things as they are.
This sort of anti-Trump rhetoric has been said by all sorts of people around the word who want to maintain an elitist oligarchy. The media runs with it too. With Shorten also saying this, it ties in very well with the Wikileak's report from Snowden some years ago about Shorten. And no, I don't support Trump, but I have been watching the FUD issued about him for many months in the US.
Shorten has got some some guts and demonstrated leadership skills to call Trump "barking mad".
This is the bloody useless MSM again. Shorten didn't call Trump "barking mad". He said some of Trump's ideas are "barking mad". The idea Trump can get Mexico to pay for a wall along their US border is clearly "barking mad". Shorten is right.
A commenter on Delimiter writes ... etc
Are there any statistics from non-Telstra RSPs that show the breakdown for their customers? That would allow us to see if and by how much Telstra is skewing the numbers.
Are there any statistics from non-Telstra RSPs that show the breakdown for their customers?
Someone here has extracted them by subtracting the Telstra stats from the overall stats � it's probably posted in /forum-replies.cfm?t=2519852.
http://www.itwire.com/opinio
This is exactly what I tell people who think john was a good pm.
All he did was flog off government assets and hand out cash to keep him in power instead of investing much needed money into needed upgrades.
My uncle lives around Exeter and since about 1998 (About the time Telstra was getting flogged off to the private sector) there has been fibre optics in the ground because at the time, telstra was upgrading to fibre optics, but than John came in with a wrecking ball and that all ended than Telstra built an adsl exchange down the road a few years later.
If John didn't flog off telstra, we could have been nearly entirely fibre optic by now,, but nope, John had other ideas and now we're all stuck in this mess.
The Federal Coalition does not need any more bad news from it's MTM Strategic Partner in the next 5 weeks.
Double trouble for the real-life experiences of the Federal Coalition's MTM policy for a new FTTN customer over in a sister NBN thread tonight. 100m from the node on the 100/40 speed tier and reporting worse than ADSL2+ download speeds during peak hour tonight.
now that i am home again my speedtests is coming in at 11.95mb download and 33.34mb upload. really dont know how it can go from so good to so bad :/ like worse than my adsl that i had which was 15mb downloads. anyone here having some issues with iinet or any suggestions for me to sort this? i am only 100m from the node the house is only 6years old....
Over in the NBN Campbelltown (NSW) thread the locals are scratching their head at the alleged fantastic design skills of NBN Co and wondering how the Federal Coalition could be spending so many $B on their nbn and still be dicking around with getting the right amount of backhaul to alive RFS areas.
According to iinet the whole of 2CBT is congested and there is no more cvc available. They are waiting on nbn to lay more fibre backhaul to 2CBT so it may be a long wait.
Are there any statistics from non-Telstra RSPs that show the breakdown for their customers? That would allow us to see if and by how much Telstra is skewing the numbers.
The NBN Wholesale Market Indicators Report gives the AVC breakdown as of 31/03/2016, through a number of categories.
https://www.accc.
While it is limited to the top 4 in each category with position 5 being "Other Access Seekers" it is detailed enough to highlight Telstras effect on the overall numbers.
EDIT: + 2nd edit to correct values
% Breakdown per download AVC for all providers, then � (All providers excluding Telstra in brackets) � Telstra Only
- 12 = 30.8 � (36.7) � 24.8
- 25 = 52.0 � (40.6) � 63.8
- 50 = 4.1 � (5.5) � 2.6
- 100 = 13.1 � (17.2) � 8.9
- 250 = 0.0044 � (0.0076) � 0.0011
- 500 = 0.0003 � (0.0006) � 0
- 1000 = 0.0024 � (0.0037) � 0.0011
and reporting worse than ADSL2+ download speeds
Malcolm called... He said you need to sprinkle more magic dust on your modem. Or RTFM, or something...
/s
This is why we have stories about the tortoise and the hare in kindergarten, so we know to do things properly at a constant rate, and not rush out half-baked rubbish and stop to pat yourself on the back every 5 min's over how clever and fast you are.
Kingforce et al take note.
"There was criticism of the raids but it quickly just brought the issue of the NBN back up, timed with the Telstra outages that fed into it a bit," he said.
"It was clearly a negative for the government."
If it (nbn) wasn't an election issue 60 hours ago, IT SURE IS NOW!!
The Australian Federal Police investigation of leaks on the progress of the National Broadband Network led to a surge in mentions about the NBN, making it the biggest issue of the week.
The raids, of the Melbourne office of former communications minister Stephen Conroy and the home of a Labor staffer, were greeted with outrage by Labor.
The publicity did greater damage to the government, according to iSentia group communications manager Patrick Baume.
"There was criticism of the raids but it quickly just brought the issue of the NBN back up, timed with the Telstra outages that fed into it a bit," he said.
"It was clearly a negative for the government."
If it (nbn) wasn't an election issue 60 hours ago, IT SURE IS NOW!!
I note the Treasurer's debate at Press Club today Bowen in his opening speech section mentioned NBN first in a list of key issues.... He did an excellent job I might add.
Had to laugh heaps when Morrison after continually interjecting Bowen answers etc copped some back and said "... I wouldn't interrupt you..." or words to that effect. 'Mr Bullyman' can't help himself..... he continued to do it...
While it is limited to the top 4 in each category with position 5 being "Other Access Seekers" it is detailed enough to highlight Telstras effect on the overall numbers.
Thanks. Not overly distorting imo.
Not overly distorting imo.
Had some incorrect percentages � now fixed.
Not sure I agree with your conclusion.
Not sure I agree with your conclusion
I'm not that fussed whether the 50+Mbps is 17% or 22.5%. It's all much of a muchness, possibly cancelled out by the 12% boost to 25Mbps.
Had some incorrect percentages � now fixed.
Telstra at their last report said that 20% of their FTTP subscribers were on phone-only (I assume that means 12/1)
1st is he got us out of debt + sold Telstra usual LNP way out of trouble....
Selling Telstra is why they got out debt, that's still only 1. I've had some guy say "some guy on TV told me his he was good" LOL
Telstra at their last report said that 20% of their FTTP subscribers were on phone-only (I assume that means 12/1)
I am not sure if the Telstra numbers include 'Belong' (a subsidiary as I understand it who offer 12/1).
The numbers I have stated are my calculations from the linked data (as of 31/03/2016). I think they are correct now (I could be wrong and have been before)
The situation is still pretty fluid although as the rollout progresses the variation in the numbers should diminish.
Telstra at their last report said that 20% of their FTTP subscribers were on phone-only (I assume that means 12/1)
They're probably older folk who don't use the internet and have, like it or not, been forced to upgrade to the NBN infrastructure. Meanwhile it's pretty clear that both the LNP and ALP parties are now obviously set on the continuation of the now inferior MTM roll out.
Meanwhile it's pretty clear that both the LNP and ALP parties are now obviously set on the continuation of the now inferior MTM roll out.
Err..nope:
NBN: Stop the nodes, Clare says
FTTN rollout should be stopped in favour of FTTdp or FTTP, Labor�s broadband spokesperson says
http://www.computerworl
Not overly distorting imo
My analysis does indicate that they are, at least to some extent distorting the distribution. When comparing the groupings of 12/1+25/5 to 50/20+100/40 Telstra have 52% of the market for the first group, but only 32.5% of the second group with Optus and TPG taking up most of the proportional difference. When comparing within each of the respective companies own groups, with the exception of M2, the others are around the 20-25% mark. Telstra and M2 are in the same range as each other in this one, with M2 having the least amount of its subscribers on the highest plans, at just 9.5% of their subscribers, while Telstra isn't doing much better at 11.4%.
M2 doesn't surprise me as their main target is the cheap market of people who don't actually want to pay for internet. The big surprise in this specific comparison is that 25% of Optus customers are on 50/20 or 100/40. I didn't bother running the analysis on plans above 100/40 because 65 subscribers in 941,235 subscribers is statistically insignificant, working at 2 decimal places they are literally rounding error.
I am not sure if the Telstra numbers include 'Belong' (a subsidiary as I understand it who offer 12/1).
On the first part that is a good question. While they are a subsidiary they have done a great deal to keep them separate, to the point that with ADSL they don't buy direct from Telstra Wholesale but rather Telco-in-a-box. Not quite sure what their arrangement is for the NBN, and where they get counted. As for the second part yep, they do offer 12/1 as a base.
On the note of subsidiaries being included in the title group, are the wholesalers grouped in. The top 3 all have wholesale divisions which on-sell NBN services. This is going to have an effect on their own numbers when a given group doesn't necessarily sell a plan level directly through their retail arms. I know its a long shot to even bother asking for, but I do wonder if it would be possible to get disaggregated figures between retail and wholesale arms
It's all much of a muchness, possibly cancelled out by the 12% boost to 25Mbps
I understand the position in terms of ARPU but it does show there is a counter factual to be presented to the 83% are choosing speeds of 25 or less claim.
There are other aspects to consider on the figures that report presents.
The overall FttN percentages on (up to) 100 speeds are less than half those on FttP (7.4% to 15.1%). While the total numbers are relatively small, and there has not been any compulsory cutovers, the trend is in direct contrast to that of early FttP areas, where there were high early adoption rates for 100 services.
These high numbers have since declined as late adopters and phone only services have been added at cutover.
It would be reasonable to assume similar trends will materialise in the FttN footprint, but will be skewed lower due to some users being unable to access the speeds they are willing to pay for due to distance/copper condition.
Telstras share of the (albeit small) FttN footprint is also significantly higher than the FttP market (58.4% to 47.4%)
The elephant is still in the room, and its not going anywhere.
Nice to see these articles, we need more of them.
Telstras share of the (albeit small) FttN footprint is also significantly higher than the FttP market (58.4% to 47.4%)
That may well be what Telstra was aiming for...lots of existing phone/internet customers just translating across out of sheer ignorance of opportunities for change to something better.
Whether its crappy steel from China or crappy Executives from the US � why oh why are we so against our own people. Why are so in love with junk from overseas. Reflects very poorly our character. You would think Telstra would have learnt from Sol
Err..nope:
NBN: Stop the nodes, Clare says...
Great if it came to fruition, but unfortunately Clare is a voice in the political wilderness. Now if it was Shorten who said this, and kept to his word, we might have a chance of a modern comms roll out.
Now if it was Shorten who said this
https://delimiter.com.au/201
You were saying?
You were saying?
Cough, the article does say "Fighting words from Shorten, but I wouldn�t read too much into them. I�ll be waiting to see the fine print on Labor�s NBN policy before counting this as a victory."
A lot of conjecture, but certainly no guarantee or promise of a return to fibre....so be it LNP or ALP, it's odds on that we remain firmly positioned behind the proverbial 8-ball.
A lot of conjecture, but certainly no guarantee or promise of a return to fibre....so be it LNP or ALP, it's odds on that we remain firmly positioned behind the proverbial 8-ball.
The problem here is, Renais right, we can't exactly go straight to a full on fibre rollout. The next best thing is FttDP which the Liberal party is already trying to make it seem like a bad thing claiming crap on it, all because they didnt want to give up the FTTN ideology last year when they knew it was the better technology
That may well be what Telstra was aiming for...lots of existing phone/internet customers just translating across out of sheer ignorance of opportunities for change to something better.
I would say that is exactly what Telstra is aiming for.
My understanding of the challenges posed by the CVC charges is that high speed, high bandwidth customers cost more to service.
It is in Telstras interest to sign up as many users as possible on lower speed, lower bandwidth plans. It is precisely this factor, combined with their market presence that gives them such an advantage in the market.
The transition from a supply constrained market to one that is demand driven is more likely than not to favour the dominant incumbent.
The problem here is, Renais right, we can't exactly go straight to a full on fibre rollout. The next best thing is FttDP which the Liberal party is already trying to make it seem like a bad thing claiming crap on it, all because they didnt want to give up the FTTN ideology last year when they knew it was the better technology
Why not? There's no reason that we can't transition back to FTTP. Obviously some FTTN areas would have to be completed in the transition time and then replaced with proper fibre once the rest of the rollout is completed.
FTTdp is nice in that it has an actual upgrade path to proper fibre and that it's a bit better speed-wise than FTTN, but I still can't work out why so many people support it. Over the medium to long term (factoring upgrades) it will cost more and be money wasted over just going back to FTTP... The only conclusion I can think of is that people think it's more politically correct to use the old degrading copper in some way, but that's a bad reason to make that kind of decision.
With FTTdp you're always going to have reliability problems here and there because of the weakest link (the copper), which means higher operational expenditure due to remediation. Your LN is the same as the GPON network, but then you have active electronics in the pit, which is much more difficult to access for maintenance (more opex again). Further, I'm not convinced that there are currently micro-nodes on the market that you could share between a couple of houses that would be cheaper than just running the fibre tails...
But the main problem to remember is that rolling out FTTdp would first require just as many trials, etc. as FTTN needed. We can't spend another two years faffing about before we start rolling out a better technology than FTTN! Whereas we know that a cheaper solution to rolling out FTTP has already been trialled and we could start rolling that out in all new areas pretty much immediately (adding in some design time).
Cough, the article does say
You're not confusing Renai's opinion for fact are you?
no guarantee or promise of a return to fibre.
You must be reading a different article, or just filtering it through your conservative spectacles.
When I read this bit: "They cannot give voice to their preferred ideology by passing on stolen documents.", I thought, "And you can't give voice to your preferred ideology by bad-mouthing whistleblowers.
And I thought about the 'Yes Minister' sketch on information leaks.
That's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I give confidential project progress briefings. You whistleblow. He has been charged under section 2a of the Official Secrets Act.
I've heard that NBN are going to be using the Telstra cable network where available. My homes only option for high speed internet is Telstra cable, is there an ETA on NBN roll out on the Telstra cable network?
is there an ETA on NBN roll out on the Telstra cable network?
Unless you are on the rollout plan. No.
- Contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
Is it? Or is it at the bequest of News Limited? Murdoch and his media is a powerful ally � and he stands to lose the most from a properly functional nbn. The MTM policy was even launched at Fox Studios.
is there an ETA on NBN roll out on the Telstra cable network?
There are zero premises connected to NBN on Telstra cable today, the product launch is due in a couple of weeks.
They have been very quiet on any trials, the only one that I'm aware they publicised was an Optus area back in Feb.
https://twitter.com/DCoopes/status/735101684829933570
The data shows, its a lie that FTTN is faster to roll out than FTTP.
And surely Sen Conroy would have copies of Docs from when he was Minister in Charge showing the costing of a single and multiport NTD.
We can pretty much calculate that now, essentially it is the difference in priced of a four way RJ45 socket with integrated magnetics vs a 1 way RJ45 socket with integrated magnetics. I say this after eyeballing the PCB and the nature of the modular design.
The great thing about the multi port NTD is that the additional ports are available to everyone, including those that think they don't need them when first installing.Even for a dedicated medical monitorng service,
That makes them available to employers that want to put in a secure service for an employee, for new "cable company" that wants to use a dedicated port for their STB.
Even for a dedicated medical monitoring service after someone's health take a turn after they got their NBN installed.
The four port NTD provides "Ubiquity x4".
It is similar to the higher speed AVCs, you only need a small proportion of take up to lift ARPU above the incremental costs. And that is before the unexpected applications we couldn't have anticipated.
There are zero premises connected to NBN on Telstra cable today, the product launch is due in a couple of weeks.
I would love to know how the NBNCo has managed to achieve so little with HFC.
The data shows, its a lie that FTTN is faster to roll out than FTTP.
But common sense says it should be. There's much less labour involved. How has the NBNCo managed to make FTTN take so long?
What are all those people doing?
There are zero premises connected to NBN on Telstra cable today, the product launch is due in a couple of weeks.
So they are launching some sort of media release on the plans for NBN on Telstra cable in a few weeks?
Fingers crossed I can get NBN in less than a year.
I can get NBN in less than a year.
The hijacked copper fraudband nbn snail-speed non-broadband or the original NBN fibre high-speed broadband ?
The question that should be asked is "why is Telstra not pushing 100Mbps?".
The sooner NBN Co fails to achieve ROI of 2.5% the sooner the probability for Telstra to be handed over the entrails of NBN/nbn, like so many other matters NBN and now eHealth it seems. Part of the original failure/destruction plan and the ideological myth that only private enterprise can do this sort of thing....
The sooner NBN Co fails to achieve ROI of 2.5%
How much does the nbn have to blow out by for the ROI to hit 0%?
whilst it may be politically smart, adding all the options to it makes it a complex thing to manage, it removes the KISS principle
Quigley and Co designed the original NBN to service now and well into the future.
Anything else is servicing the now and next week
Totally agree...the focus should be on what is best value for money for generations not just this one. It is that sense of immediate 'greed' (no offence to posters) that Turnbull and Co have pitched their ideological farce....
Simply seems it is futile to build something you know you have to fix up a little further down the line, and you know how to do that now. Cost is not an issue while funds can be accessed so cheaply and the business model is so sound (and proving itself so with the FTTP portion built to date). The real cost consideration is the cost of not doing full FTTP NOW !!
When I read this bit: "They cannot give voice to their preferred ideology by passing on stolen documents.", I thought, "And you can't give voice to your preferred ideology by bad-mouthing whistleblowers.
The right that sprung to my mind is that he seems to continuing the misrepresentation that the "fibre zealots" are trying to take them down. It also seems to confirm NBN Cos unwillingness to change the rollouts, even in the face of evidence they have internally.
It's also concerning that whenever NBN Co say they are being transparent, the only example they cite is a weekly rollout report. That report doesnt actually tell you much to start with. The fact that things like the 3 year rollout plan are months overdue are never mentioned. We got far more info under Labors NBN reporting.
Ziggy also claims in the interview that they provide transparency by attending the Senate hearings. The reality though is that simply attending doesn't provide transparency. You have to actually answer questions and provide information to provide transparency, and Morrow and Co always hides behind CiC or taking a question on notice (which never actually gets answered)
Imho Fizzbull will definitely try and sell the NBN to telstra if he's re-elected (not that I think he stands a hope in hell of being re-elected) . The money already wasted on fraudband will of course be swept under the carpet as they brag of a $20-$30b windfall. The most pathetic part is that he'll probably get away with it.
How much does the nbn have to blow out by for the ROI to hit 0%?
Not sure what you mean by blow out. Cost increase is a factor but it is the revenue, or more correctly the failure to generate revenue and be able to service the loan that is the key. The 2 � yr delay to get started with FTTN, slowing FTTP to 40% of original rollout rate and now consumer selection of slowest FTTN Plans and poor functionality ie. data transfer discouraging higher level data packages etc etc that diminishes revenue.
If they can't service the existing borrowings (govt only to 2017) and can't demonstrate to the open commercial market they have the capacity to service their loans to complete the build two things happen � because of higher risk loan rates from banks will be higher or they just won't be interested. Both options point to total failure of NBN Co.
Fingers crossed I can get NBN in less than a year.
If you are already on cable don't expect nbn HfC to be much different
Not sure what you mean by blow out.
I think it was the last Senate Estimates or the second last one where it was mentioned it would be an ROI of around 3.3-3.5% with 46 billion dollars and 2.5% if it hit 56 billion. So it must keep going down as funding costs rise.
Ziggy used the phrase "ideologically-motivated".
Oops.
Shot the LNP in the foot with that one.
That's the whole reason we have MTM in the first place not FTTP to ~93%.
Moron.
Also:
The CEO of Internet Australia, Laurie Patton, also took aim at Dr Switkowski's article, saying he was making serious accusations against two unnamed NBN officers despite no charges having been laid.
"The issue is not about NBN's performance to date, on which there is real and genuine concern in
technical circles and in the public arena, it's about the fundamental fact that they are building an inferior network at a time when Australia has well justified ambitions to become a leading innovation nation," he said.
Mr Patton says whoever wins the election should hold an independent review into the NBN.
Strong words.
it be 2 inquiries i 1 and the bigger of the 2 is going to see everyone riding on te backwash of turnbull sunk with turnbull facing a jail cell or firing squad for treason against the australian public..
Strong words.
Very accurate ones, powerfully put by the CE of Internet Australia, the representative organisation for all Net matters in Australia.
The only thing we might add would say an 'independent review' will need to be a full Royal Commission to flush out any of the political or other boondoggles that may have occurred.
i doubt the wiring in my place would rate to 2008 telstra mandate there tex, at this stage i wouldn't be surprised if we see treason charges laid.. on this mess we call mtm ala tophat install
does anyone know what the cost per premises for skymuster is? vs fixed line and fixed wireless
does anyone know what the cost per premises for skymuster is? vs fixed line and fixed wireless
Who knows for sat?
Launch cost vs shoving people on by the truckloads keeps dropping the average cost per user.
does anyone know what the cost per premises for skymuster is? vs fixed line and fixed wireless
2016 Corporate Plan says (fully loaded costs including Telstra infrastructure payments)
FttP Brownfields = 4400
FttP Greenfields = 2100
FttN = 2300
HFC = 1800
Fixed Wireless = 4900
Satellite = 7900
the stats on satellite service is bogus it was a interim service some 23+ years ago was 100,000 users with an average growth rate of 25% across the last 23 years somewhere north of 575,000+ users today if not more..
4g/lte waste of time over priced for a basic paging service given the piss poor quota system in place...
FttP Brownfields = 4400
FttP Greenfields = 2100
FttN = 2300
HFC = 1800
Fixed Wireless = 4900
Satellite = 7900
based on that , how can they justify putting select people on satellite (Such as the adelaide guy) when it would make more sense financially to put those people on FTTN/HFC or FW
based on that , how can they justify putting select people on satellite (Such as the adelaide guy) when it would make more sense financially to put those people on FTTN/HFC or FW
Only count user equipment costs � opex/revenue will be someone else's problem.
/s
how can they justify putting select people on satellite (Such as the adelaide guy) when it would make more sense financially to put those people on FTTN/HFC or FW
To speed up their rollout target figures ..
We all know it doesn't matter what Ziggy says
https://cafewhispers.wordpre
2003 = coppers rooted
2013 = coppers in brand new condition and well maintained
k
2003 = coppers rooted
2013 = coppers in brand new condition and well maintained
Yup that well maintained that I was spending money on ADSL2+ service that was offline most of the time.
Saying the condition of the copper is new and well maintained is like saying the Titanic is still afloat.
But then again give enough money to people they will spin anything.
Give Ziggy's his marching orders.
The ALP's Tony Burke has now written to the secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, Dr Martin Parkinson, stating the article breached the caretaker conventions and the Commonwealth Government Business Enterprise Governance and Oversight Guidelines.
Burke requests Parkinson �immediately undertake inquiries� into the matter.
Re;
Switkowski wades into NBN leak debate, ALP is furious..
Do you think anything will be done about this?
2003 = coppers rooted
2013 = coppers in brand new condition and well maintained
Maybe he installed self healing copper in 2003...
Say that enough times and he will believe it himself.
Ziggy added the list with Morrows, FiField, Turnbull, Abbott. Lying scumbags.
In a word? no
Yeah...not a hope in hell, unless there's enough of a sustained outroar about it that the libs can't ignore it anymore. We can hope for that, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Switkowski wades into NBN leak debate, ALP is furious..
Do you think anything will be done about this?
Parkinson was sacked by Abbott from Treasury.
Turnbull, Palmer and Parkinson were at that well publicised dinner together in Canberra a couple of years ago.
Parkinson was hand picked to head Prime Minister's Office.
Once upon a time frank and fearless advice was the hallmark of top public servants, for Minister's to act on.
Can't see any action on any matters to do with this NBN raid issue whatsoever prior to election as in 'Yes Minister' mode there is no 'Minister' so to speak... and no doubt Parkinson wants to continue in his contracted role...
In politics timing is everything...
Switkowski wades into NBN leak debate, ALP is furious..
and calls the whistle-blowers thieves, clearly he fails to understand IP � copying IP is not stealing, simply because the person copying the IP hasn't deprived the originator of the IP, it still exists and can still be used in anyway the originator sees fit.
and calls the whistle-blowers thieves, clearly he fails to understand IP � copying IP is not stealing, simply because the person copying the IP hasn't deprived the originator of the IP, it still exists and can still be used in anyway the originator sees fit.
Its questionable if it even is IP. Its financials and numbers, progress reports and updates. Its not even anything innovative or a design of any sort that warrant full copyright.
Maybe it is IP for MTMCo, because its the only company in this world to deliberately aim for zero return on investment and to have the company run into the ground. I guess no sane company would copy this model. Only the MTM and world first would attempt and achieve such a goal.
I'm no law egg-head but the two ex-NBN employers lawyer should be scaring Ziggy off right about now with defamation case to remind Ziggy that the trial hasn't gone through yet and calling his clients "thieves" when the case hasn't even been heard yet...
should be scaring Ziggy off right about now with defamation case to remind Ziggy that the trial hasn't gone
Not just threatening him but instigating proceedings with malic, I would be sure there are a number of entities that would like to see him knocked down hard.
Not to mention both Ziggy and co have been stating openly the the copper network was stuffed since the early 1990's, I suspect this is the secondary reason that Ziggy and co got the shafted by Telstra and fired..
I'm no law egg-head but the two ex-NBN employers lawyer should be scaring Ziggy off right about now with defamation case to remind Ziggy that the trial hasn't gone through yet
http://www.cio.com.au/articl
NBN chair's accusations of theft 'unfair'
"Laurie Patton, CEO of peak body, Internet Australia called the column �unhelpful and unfair� since the two unnamed NBN officers stood down following AFP raids had been given �no opportunity � to put forward their side of the story�.
"In a statement from Internet Australia, a not-for-profit peak body for internet user, Laurie Patton said: �The alleged actions of these NBN employees and questions as to their motives should be left to be dealt with according to the appropriate legal and parliamentary processes. It is unhelpful and unfair to be publicly disparaging people who, for the moment, are unable to respond.�
Back onto the Current Coalition NBN policy.. Oh yes, its going swimmingly...
https://twitter.com/DCoopes/status/737067354077548544
Note, the chart doesnt include any of the areas like St Mary's in adelaide which is full of shortfalls and unable to connect.
Techs are being booked, rebooked and rebooked by ISPs. The flow on costs for just this (born by the techs, ISP's and end users) wont show on NBN reports, but would be massive!
Give Ziggy's his marching orders.
As long he does not leave the country as he may be called on if a royal commission into Turnbulls MTM fiasco ever eventuates .
I know what you men utc I spent more than 3-4 months with piss poor land line and no internet service.
1st tech noted the fault beyond the D/A in the leg back to the exchange..
2nd tech did a run and bunk didn't even come up the my unit left a nice little letter and didn't walk past the boundary line of the property.
3rd techs noted and passed and concurred the prognosis of the 1st tech
4th tech actually repaired the issue..
Here's the irony when I left this suburb they were laying conduit for fibre option some 3-4 years ago with the d/a being over populated prior to me leaving I notices when I returned to the suburb 3-4 years later they haven't gone past the inital planning stages.
And they keep sending out people to take geo plots wasting more money before deployment, with the state of new buildings being built within the area I can say this a statement of fact that who ever installs the fibre optic will need to cater to 600 or more services and I doubt keeping up with deployment of copper past the D/A will help matter..
I'm in an area destined for fttn and I already know the infrastructure will require a major over haul if you want to support LAN or vdsl connection.. Personally I believe it will likely be cheaper to convert to fibre optics in my case... Rather than deal with the mess that uses fttn as the footprint with the given the copper requires an upgrade to support it..
Rocky, Quigly can join the debate all he likes though I doubt he can openly comment to about his former position at NBNco given I suspect he be under some form of clause that forbids him from commenting ..
Its not even anything innovative or a design of any sort that warrant full copyright.
"Innovation" is a test that patents must meet. Pretty much anything written that's original (and with a pretty broad definition of "original") is copyright, copyright mark or no.
https://delimiter.com.au/20
Bomb drop
Hope it makes it to the media in time..
https://www.eventbrite.com.a
More info on Quigley speech
More info on Quigley speech
and they are using an Image of the underground walkway between United Terminals in Chicago's O'Hare Airport, guess someone thinks it look all techy :) All those neon tubes
Given delimiters track record I would say this is going to be hidden by every major and minor media outlet..
I don't read delimiter much anymore because it had become a satire based drama rather than a credible source of information..
Pretty much anything written that's original (and with a pretty broad definition of "original") is copyright, copyright mark or no.
True, but normally a purely civil matter and thus outside the remit of the AFP, unless it leads to other crimes.
This link is so sad but funny. They really expect that amount of money and industry to set up in Australia. The most unaffordable country in the region in terms of internet speed and reliability.
You can find better internet capabilities, service and reliability in other countries right next door. Sorry Australia and the LNP but MTM is the network of missed opportunities and this is just another opportunity that you will miss.
Anyone got the league ladder of Asian broadband access ...if Indonesia isn't on it then recognise they have committed to FTTP and will surpass Australia's capability � the rest of Asia won't bother going past there. Australia will be the dirty backwater of internet in Asia...if its not already.
Unless of course the govt changes and Labor builds the FTTP network � the only way forward for this article to have any credibility
he most unaffordable country in the region in terms of internet speed and reliability.
That's right. We are something like 67th in the rankings.
Add the increased maintenance $2 billion a year
Maintenance is an unknown factor. Since at least 2007 Telstra were only giving workers an hour to try and fix problems or putting a plastic bag over pits making the current costs completely up in the air. Whether nbn will continue ignoring the copper breakdown is also unknown.
Whether nbn will continue ignoring the copper breakdown is also unknown.
Almost certainly while they're still in the transition phase and only have to guarantee 12/1 for the periods we're all now familiar with.
Still can't find an authoritative answer � does nbn FTTN provide wetting voltage?
Still can't find an authoritative answer � does nbn FTTN provide wetting voltage?
The line cards they use are capable of providing it, I am not sure that it does though. Although I don't know why they wouldn't if the capability was there.
Ziggy makes no apologies for reporting document theft to the AFP
http://www.theage.com.au/
Here are some things he should apologise for.
A year ago, the board of NBN set the commercial objectives for which the CEO and his executive team would be held accountable in the 2015-16 operating year.
Ziggy may well claim that one year ago the board set targets for the next financial year. The only publicly available document I am aware of detailing targets for this period is the 2016 Corporate Plan.
The published date for the 2016 Corporate Plan was some time in August 2015. A ~10 month initial forecast, after almost 2 years in control of the company.
The published date for the previous Corporate Plan was 11/11/14. This one only managed to forecast ~7 months out and declined to make any projections further than that claiming it was too hard..
The board is responsible for setting the targets for the company. I wonder if the performance bonuses paid to the management team (if any) will be publicly available information. I also wonder if the board are beneficiaries of any performance incentives.
The company will meet its targets for the ninth quarter in a row.
I would definitely like to see more detail about these quarterly targets. I am not saying they don't exist but I am not aware of what they comprise, or where I can find them. It is definitely not something that is accessible from a link on the home page of the website (as the weekly progress report is).
Contrary to media commentary, the documents did nothing to highlight poor management of the business. There are no "cost blowouts" or "rollout delays" to the publicly released plans
As far as I am aware the only publicly released plan is the 2016 Corporate Plan. Its forecasts are 12 monthly (not quarterly). I would be very happy to be pointed to the area of the nbn website that deals with quarterly targets.
� all one has to do is compare the data that is readily available.
Once again, somebody please point me to the readily (publicly) available data that sets out the quarterly construction targets with 'Build Prep' and 'Build Commenced' numbers along with 'Ready for Service' projected dates. It is this data that determines the progress of the rollout. 'Premises Passed', while important, simply tells us what has already happened, not what is happening.
Apparently � Contrary to media commentary, the 'leaked' documents show progress updates, options to ensure targets are met and ways to solve problems which are all normal parts of doing good business. It's simply wrong to diminish NBN's performance, because such accusations are not supported in fact.
If this is all the documents show, why is the public disclosure of the documents considered theft?
If this is all the documents show, why is the public disclosure of the documents considered theft?
[Channelling John Howard]
Ziggy: "We will decide what information is released to this country and the circumstances in which it is released."
Still can't find an authoritative answer � does nbn FTTN provide wetting voltage?
There's some Cisco gear that provides for whetting current, but I can't easily find the answer for the A-L 7330.
It is absolutely depressing looking at those figures.
The LNP are just beyond words!
Yep jobs and growth supposedly by public paying unnecessarily for rubbish....waste...
It isn't the chassis but the LT cards that provide the wetting/whetting current.
It is the MELT (MEtallic Line Testing) capability that provides the wetting/whetting current from what I can tell.
NBN Co are using NDLT-F LTs which support MELT.
Some further info here http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/2
There's some Cisco gear that provides for whetting current, but I can't easily find the answer for the A-L 7330.
Huh? Shouldn't it be generated from the CO?
Christopher Pyne�s assertion that there have been �no delays� in the implementation of the NBN is inaccurate.
Turnbull promised 25Mbit min by 2016...they are millions or people behind schedule to achieve this so how can there not be delays?
A classic non tech business illustrating the importance of connectivity.
Adore Beauty founder Kate Morris on the importance of high-speed internet
�What�s the biggest issue for me? Right now, to be honest, it�s the NBN [National Broadband Network]. It has really only come to my attention since we moved premises and moved away from NBN infrastructure.
We now remember how bad it is to try to run a business on copper. It�s just impossible.
For me, it�s not just a problem for our business � it�s any business. It�s brought it home to me how much a waste of time it is throwing money on innovation in any way unless you have the right infrastructure in place for tech-enabled businesses to grow.
Christopher Pyne�s assertion that there have been �no delays� in the implementation of the NBN is inaccurate.
You're too kind. I'd call it a lie :)
Some delays occurred under the Labor government ...
Yep. I think Labor need to tread warily if they go after the LNP on roll out delays as the LNP have the comeback of delays under Labour. That's not to say Labor shouldn't do it, just they need to be careful.
... hardly cheaper!
This is the one Labor should be able to kill them on. Under Labor the cost rose from $43bn to $45.6bn. But all that increase was in total funding due to roll out delays. The capex estimate was remarkable steady. Costs under the LNP have blown out everywhere, with the possible exception of FTTP. Better economic managers my arse!
But all that increase was in total funding due to roll out delays
And to top it off, the main rollout delay wasn't even NBN Co's fault but rather Telstra dragging their feet on asbestos remediation.
Ziggy makes no apologies for reporting document theft to the AFP
http://www.theage.com.au/
I will not make apology when he gets fired after ALP takes over.
Full-Metal-Alchemist writes...
I will not make apology when he gets fired after ALP takes over.
if Labor win, they should "performance manage" him out.
Knowing how he and most of the Senior Managers will have put "golden parachutes" in their contracts if sacked, they need to make him resign so as not to trigger the 'chute.
I mean, all they need to do is pull out the draft 2013 Corporate Plan and use that as his KPI benchmark and say, "why haven't you met these targets?
And then I guess any performance bonus would go west
The published date for the 2016 Corporate Plan was some time in August 2015. A ~10 month initial forecast, after almost 2 years in control of the company.
The published date for the previous Corporate Plan was 11/11/14. This one only managed to forecast ~7 months out and declined to make any projections further than that claiming it was too hard..
Have you actually read those corporate plans? They show clear forecasts for Premises Activated out to FY18. The recent (May) third quarter financials also show useful achievement data. I am sure they have better things to do than provide specifics just to your liking. The figures show a rapid expansion of capability and connections year on year. the media statement on May 20 regarding the theft of documents also states that they expect to meet or exceed all the targets for the year. As end of year is only one month away I would be surprised if they got that wrong.
the media statement on May 20 regarding the theft of documents also states that they expect to meet or exceed all the targets for the year.
Given that they lied about there being one or more instance of theft, why would you believe their other claims?
e media statement on May 20 regarding the theft of documents also states that they expect to meet or exceed all the targets for the year. As end of year is only one month away I would be surprised if they got that wrong.
It is one thing to meet targets so you can claim glory and pay bonuses and another to meet targets that don't achieve the financial requirements of the company which is the case with NBN Co apparently as Telstra is claiming they are $3B down on forecast payments from NBN Co. That can only be because NBN Co are not building and cutting over enough services � that's the real deal....
Given that they lied about there being one or more instance of theft, why would you believe their other claims?
Oh come on. That is the kind of ill considered (I could say stupid) comment that is all too prevalent in this forum and which lowers its credibility. About on the same level as the other nong going on about treason etc. Keep it real please.
Keep it real please.
It is completely real � it is the Coalition and Ziggy et al who are deliberately lying by claiming that there was theft, yet the search warrant makes no mention of theft or stolen property.
Fast broadband start-up growth puts Openreach under pressure
Hyperoptic, an ultra-fast broadband network builder, plans to roll out �gigabit� services across seven towns and cities, piling pressure on existing infrastructure owner BT Openreach.
The �15m network will deliver speeds of 1,000Mbps, around 10 times faster than those available today, with the aim of reaching 500,000 homes in Edinburgh, Portsmouth, Leicester, Southampton, Slough, Watford d Woking by 2018.
Hyperoptic, backed by hedge fund veteran George Soros, claims that residents have to endure �crippling broadband speeds� and that its new network will be 10 times faster. �Nobody does it faster than a gigabit service,� said Steve Holford, Hyperoptic�s customer boss.
�Enough people are now raising a flag to say they want us to build a network, and the difference for residents is huge.� Hyperoptic hopes that adding seven new areas to its network of 13 towns and cities will pile further pressure on BT Openreach, which is Britain�s dominant internet provider but has been criticised for failing to invest in fibre-optic cables.
the demand is there for GB services and seems the business case is also there, because they are overbuilding BT
if Labor win, they should "performance manage" him out.
Knowing how he and most of the Senior Managers will have put "golden parachutes" in their contracts if sacked, they need to make him resign so as not to trigger the 'chute.
Please take at look at the annual report, no bonus deferral.
Hmm. If you take a close look at the remuneration section Ziggy is on a base salary of $209K with no bonus deferral.
Chairmen of boards are not at the office all day and they would very likely sit on quite a few other company boards.
The directors fees are around $100K each.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
the demand is there for GB services
But, but, but, they don't NEED 1Gbps...
Despite the huge efficiencies to be gained from 1Gbps services, according to the LNP, we don't need such a service.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Hmm. If you take a close look at the remuneration section Ziggy is on a base salary of $209K with no bonus deferral.
but what are his benchmarks for his bonus?or does he get his bonus no matter what?if so that means his "bonus" is really salary and should be included in the base figure.
More "fudging" of the figures by declaring Board and execs only get paid bonuses on meeting targets, trying to show a reduced "wages" figure when they are paying those bonuses anyway?
Chairman get "sacked" all the time, it never seems to hold them back from moving on to other Chairmanships, they just seem to put it down to differences with other board members or shareholder"
Chairmanships and board membership in Australia is such a small clique that most seem to protect their own and round and round they go, collecting ever increasing fees everytime they pass go
seems the Board are paid NO Bonuses
if Labor win, they should "performance manage" him out.
Personally, I'd transfer him to the new Fukushima branch office.
Personally, I'd transfer him to the new Fukushima branch office.
Fresh opportunities in Fallujah to I believe.
but what are his benchmarks for his bonus?
or does he get his bonus no matter what?
if so that means his "bonus" is really salary and should be included in the base figure.
Please please read my original post or look up the annual report. there are no bonuses in his pay and this is shown in the remuneration report. There is a separate column there to show bonuses and Ziggy has no bonus or deferred bonus.
You need to spend more time reading the annual report rather than make up conspiracy theories on bonuses
More "fudging" of the figures by declaring Board and execs only get paid bonuses on meeting targets, trying to show a reduced "wages" figure when they are paying those bonuses anyway?
Fudging on the bonus. The annual report is signed off by auditors.
In the Rem report there are no deferred bonuses for the directors.
Chairmanships and board membership in Australia is such a small clique that most seem to protect their own and round and round they go, collecting ever increasing fees everytime they pass go
Please no need to get into envy. Many of these directors have worked hard to get where they are via university and long hours.
Personally, I'd transfer him to the new Fukushima branch office.
We could of had glow in the dark copper lines. :0>
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Please please read my original post or look up the annual report. there are no bonuses in his pay and this is shown in the remuneration report. There is a separate column there to show bonuses and Ziggy has no bonus or deferred bonus.
On this point Raoul is correct going by the annual reports. The non executive directors do not get bonuses.
actually we need the capacity of 10 gb in the home, when looking at a streaming tv medium we would require 1gb or more as a basic service requirement..
anything that is requiring a copper as a external requirement from the premises will not have the required service speed needed today or into the future..
And trying to keep copper monopoly in charge where it has been proven they can't even keep..
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
The annual report is signed off by auditors.
That certainly makes it beyond reproach, doesn't it...
I see Formula 1 is working on VR broadcasts now. Again we dont have the speeds to even consume it let alone develop our own apps for it. Because our network cant provide the speeds.
http://www.jamesallen
Tata comms who handle all of FOMS data says we'll need atleast 480mbps. The MTM is'nt even close to reaching those speeds. Oh and we'll need those speeds by 2018 =D Just more evidence against the FTTN and HFC.
"needs four times the normal bandwidth of full HD, in other words 480mbps, for the technically minded. Broadcasters want to keep compression to a minimum, so fibre is clearly the answer
http://www.jamesallen
And we have a minister for innovation claiming no one makes money from movies, video games and highspeed broadband. It's why the most countries are now looking at gigabyte speeds.
actually we need the capacity of 10 gb in the home, when looking at a streaming tv medium we would require 1gb or more as a basic service requirement..
At 10gbps you could probably do away with streaming services and go back to downloading whole shows again. That would make it a utility like water. You switch it on for a download for 30 seconds or so, then off again.
Morrow preaching his BS at Comms Summit
Morrow preaching his BS at Comms Summit
Can he do that during caretaker period?
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
There is a separate column there to show bonuses and Ziggy has no bonus or deferred bonus.
For Ziggy the bonus is anyone would pay him at all, I'd suggest. I'd certainly like to see some value for money rather than lies and political favour.
the demand is there for GB services and seems the business case is also there, because they are overbuilding BT
Doesn't this look familar? BT and Telstra, refusing to build 1gbps+ networks.
15mbps is all we need under the CON-alition by 2020. They need to get a grip.
Forget 1gbps service. I was listening to a story on ABC radio on sunday arvo about a city in the us, I think it was kansas or something, I don't recall, but anyway, one of the ISP companies there were installing wait for it,,,,,, 10gbps services.
Yep... That's right, 10...
Have you actually read those corporate plans? They show clear forecasts for Premises Activated out to FY18.
Yes I have, and no they dont. The 2016 Corporate Plan does. The amusingly named 2014-2017 Corporate Plan makes no forecasts of any kind beyond FY2015, with two exceptions. On Page 49 there is a reference to Financial Assumptions from the Strategic Review, and on Page 51 there are some funding assumptions from the same Strategic Review. How relevant could these be in the absence of any assumptions on building the network?
I am sure they have better things to do than provide specifics just to your liking.
I take issue with the constant references about meeting all their targets for the past x quarters, when those targets are not publicly known/disclosed. As far as I am aware they are not.
they expect to meet or exceed all the targets for the year. As end of year is only one month away I would be surprised if they got that wrong.
Well this is the first time there have been publicly stated premises passed targets for FttN (500k). There is no way to tell from the weekly progress report what the actual FttP / FttN/B mix is. Given there were ~220k premises in the 'node construction trials' which began in July 2014, that leaves another ~280 FttN premises to be passed in FY16.
Morrow had this to say to the senate committee on 09/02/16 regarding targets.
Every one of those targets has been met on the aggregate basis of the rollout which we are measured by and continue to accelerate. If I choose, which is my prerogative, to say I am going to push one more other technology type within rather than another, I use that as discretion to make sure I optimise the rollout. Although it may be the intent that we start with 250,000 of FTTN at this point in time, as we work within the year, if we deem and I approve that it is more optimal to replace that technology with something else, we shall do so.
Basically he is saying forget about individual technology targets. He is only prepared to be judged on the aggregate figure.
The leaked documents point to potential issues with the FttN rollout. If there are issues with the FttN rollout it makes the targets for the following year (1.535 million FttN as well as 875k HFC) questionable.
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