whirlpool

I take it you want out paid for a year after the Australian servers finally come :)

LOL yes I did � I had to create a new account after my old one was deleted, but I couldn't help myself.

I just *had* to try it. Plus I always said to the company I am cancelling for speed reasons, and I will come back if you get Australia.

I am a man of my word.

What really impresses me though, is they haven't just added a "dumb" gateway � ie put a AU gateway in where the traffic actually comes from the US unlike some VPN providers.

They have actually put real servers on our soil that perform well.

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LOL yes I did � I had to create a new account after my old one was deleted, but I couldn't help myself.

I am about to test the servers, but I think ExpressVPN and BufferedVPN will be faster which I need. As I love having OpenVPN connected to all the services and DD-WRT on my router helps with that and will pay for it.

I cannot stand slow speeds and wild speed fluctuations.

But I be back with the report. :)

@jjcoolaus do you have .opvn file for the Australian server?

O.P.

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I am about to test the servers, but I think ExpressVPN and BufferedVPN will be faster which I need.

I look forward to that comparison. Testing these things on 4G is expensive!

I'm not keen to test expressvpn myself today, but the last time i tried them on 4G i couldn't get over 15mbps.

@jjcoolaus do you have .opvn file for the Australian server?

Changing the gateway in any existing *.ovpn file should work fine
aus.privateinternetaccess.com

*edit* just tried this with the Sweden.ovpn file from the standard PIA OpenVPN config files zip and it worked fine � connected successfully.

If you can test the same port on all services that would be ideal � PIA supports 53, 1194, 8080, 9201 for UDP. Port 53 often provides better speeds but depends on the ISP. For my test earlier I left the android app on auto so I have no idea what port it chose.

Speed test with PIA on Telstra cable

without VPN http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3938401607

With VPN http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3938389746

Could someone please run some speed tests on an ADSL2+ connection.

Thanks

I got 21Mbps with VPN and 14Mbps without, so something screwy was going on. ping was 31 and 32ms, uploads were identical. All on adsl2+.

Looks plenty fast at the moment, we'll see how it holds up over time.

Telstra cable:

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3938947904 so pretty good.

Without VPN 100Mbps +

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3939107036

Yes, all PIA servers will allow torrents, however, you are strongly advised to activate the SOCKS5 proxy that comes for free with PIA.
To the copyright cartel etc all your traffic will appear to come out of the Netherlands, or sometimes nearby countries as well (i've had norway several times)
A guide on how to set that up is provided here:http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/08/how-to-completely-anonymize-your-bittorrent-traffic-with-a-proxy/

Thanks for the link in the article. Would I still need to set-up a proxy if I am routing all my traffic through PIA's VPN anyway? I thought either VPN OR proxy would do the same thing re: Bittorrent? Or do I need to use both a proxy and a VPN simultaneously?

Thanks

TPG FTTB:

Normally get about 93/38 without VPN, so not too much performance loss download wise, but upload speeds about halved.

Is it possible to connect to the Australian gateway using their client? v46 still doesn't have Aus in the available list.

My V 46 has the server listed at the bottom

O.P.

Simo135 writes...

but upload speeds about halved.

Did you test it only once?

I tested with a -80dbm 4G signal in a city building yesterday afternoon (4:38pm) and got this:

Melbourne Telstra server:
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/1058843249

Sydney Telstra server:
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/1058843664

The slower download speed is probably because of the amount of network congestion about at that time of day.

Wouldn't this server fall foul of the proposed metadata retention scheme?

I've tried using the Aust server but couldn't get torrents to work, no matter how i set it up. Did a speedtest and it must be wrong, I'm only on a ADSL1 1.5mbit and it comes up with 5.92.mbps.

O.P.

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mwm writes...

Wouldn't this server fall foul of the proposed metadata retention scheme?

If it happens, most data retention schemes overseas have a clause that VPNs are exempt.

Besides, PIA keeps no logs. In their interview with torrentfreak PIA said:
We absolutely do not log any traffic nor session data of any kind, period. We have worked hard to meticulously fork all daemons that we utilize in order to achieve this functionality. It is definitely not an easy task, and we are very proud of our development team for helping Private Internet Access to achieve this unique ability.

They also said in relation to other countries their users are still protected because they operate out of the US, and have an advertised privacy policy � consumer law in the US means they must abide by that privacy policy for all their users.

Nothing to log = no data to give

Trust me, if that was all *$&*($$ they would have been "found out" by now, as other VPN services around the internet have been caught lying.

craig90 writes...

I've tried using the Aust server but couldn't get torrents to work, no matter how i set it up.

They definitely work, but if you haven't already you are STRONGLY advised to use the SOCKS5 proxy in Australia.

There must be something wrong with your setup, try contacting support and see if they can help.

As a starting point though, and you have not identified your OS, there could also be a problem with your torrent setup � to test that try a different torrent client (and don't change it's settings). Also what encryption settings (under Advanced) are you using? The default is Encryption = Blowfish, Auth = SHA1, Handshake = RSA 2048 (but you can go all the way up to AES 256 with RSA 4096)

Port forwarding is not supported on the Australia gateway, only the gateways listed on the client support page support port forwarding (parts of EU and both Canada servers).

In my experience, if utorrent is setup with sensible connection settings, port forwarding is not needed/required � even for private trackers I have had no issues without it.

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How does PIA fix the DNS leak issue?

I know you tick a box but what is it doing in the background?

Edit: I was able to get have a chat with support. They use their own DNS and not Google's.

Thanks :)

SOCKS5 proxy in Australia

I'm using windows 7 and current "utorrent" tried using socks5 but it never connects. Strange thing is when i start torrents with port forwarding and UPNP settings (with no problems at any time) i then switch over to socks5 and it downloads at max but the torrent needs to start under upnp first.

O.P.

craig90 writes...

i then switch over to socks5 and it downloads at max but the torrent needs to start under upnp first.

Hmmm... Does it help if you use an IP instead of the hostname for the SOCKS5 address?

ie press start
type cmd and press enter
type nslookup proxy-nl.privateinternetaccess.com
(and use any of the IP addresses that pop up)

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3942037824

Does it help if you use an IP instead of the hostname for the SOCKS5 address?

Sorry forgot to mention PIA was on UDP. Yeah tried TCP with 443, torrents work but then i can't get and Browser to work IE, Firefox or Chrome. I'm only a newb but the setting i have seems to be on the only way i can get things to work..tearing hair out...lol

Did try it I.P address instead of proxy but no luck with that either

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Results from NBN (25/5) connection

Auto server selection with VPN on

Actual download speed did not match the 100Mb/s reported by Speedtest

VPN on with closest server selected (actual upload did not match speed reported by Speedtest)

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3942059081

VPN off with closest server selected

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3942065118

I still wouldn't play a game where low latency matters, but for normal use I think this is amazing.

cyroth writes...

I still wouldn't play a game where low latency matters, but for normal use I think this is amazing.

until our govt will require them to keep logs.

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pactrpo writes...

until our govt will require them to keep logs.

That wont happen anytime soon. But if it did happen there will be still underground hosting servers companys that will break the law for big dollars.

You could have VPN servers setup in your house and host servers for people, if you had NBN FTTP.

That wont happen anytime soon. But if it did happen there will be still underground hosting servers companys that will break the law for big dollars.

wont ever happen now
the governments dont really give a toss what we do online. unless your printing off entire seasons of game of thrones and selling them for 10 bucks a pop its doubtfull the the govt gives a hoot what we do.
its only lately our government has even cared cause murdoch wants to stop the people who wont use foxtel and would rather download it in HD
The tpp pretty much sterilizes the Australian govt.
american companys can enforce !THERE PATENT,And Trade laws. however we cant do the same.

You would not want to set up a VPN here in australia in ur own house
we have no Rights to privacy nothing stopping the government getting a warrant whereas in EU and US(in some aspect) you have the right to privacy. no such law here you only have the the expectation of it.
why you dont see usenet servers hosted here.
Now stupid question

is it fine to sign up with this with ur own paypal account like i did. just testing it for basic torrenting see how it goes.
im connected to a Californians adress right now it seems gettign 17mbps down from my 21mbps so not to bad.
where exactly do i change it to the austrlian server it doesnt come up in the drop down menu

Is anyone having issues with the Aus servers? can't seem to get above 10Mb on my 100Mb connection... the US servers are actually faster for me. Anyone else?

quantum singularity writes...

Is anyone having issues with the Aus servers?

Yes, I can connect but unable to open any webpages using FF or IE. Was able to connect a couple of days ago.

Servers in Canada, HK or Netherlands all working fine, using Netherlands server now actually.

I could see the Australian server yesterday but since updating the software it's not visible, anyone else found this?

They must've underestimated the Australian user base and over subscribed..

Radar writes...

I could see the Australian server yesterday but since updating the software it's not visible, anyone else found this?

I signed up a few days ago and the Au server seems fine. I am using it to download from my favourite site.

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where exactly do i change it to the austrlian server it doesnt come up in the drop down menu

I dont know. I dont ever install the bloated VPN software from VPN companys. I made you Australian .opvn for the Australian servers. If you want to use OpenVPN or Viscosity VPN.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oayvjyqg3r8x1jn/Australian-PIA.rar?dl=0

Edit Fixed link

They must've underestimated the Australian user base and over subscribed..

Indead. I have tested the servers and the wild speed fluctuations is huge.

mmm annoying on one PC I can select the Australian server and on another its not even an option, latest software on both.

I raised a ticket, they said it was a known issue and their only suggestion was to reinstall which I did and it did nothing.

Having the same problems on Android tv boxes. On one I have Aust as an option, on the other I don't.

mmm annoying on one PC I can select the Australian server and on another its not even an option, latest software on both.

Is there any point in having PIA running all the time?
Are there times when it should not be connected?

Tim Tam writes...

Is there any point in having PIA running all the time?

That depends:

If you are using PIA to prevent snooping on all your internet activity then it is essential to have it running all the time.

If the purpose is to hide specific dubious activity, to avoid geoblocking or for unprotected wifi networks then you only need PIA when doing whatever.

Your choice.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0i38iv35boo9j62/Region_Data.txt

If the purpose is to hide specific dubious activity, to avoid geoblocking or for unprotected wifi networks then you only need PIA when doing whatever.

Thanks oodles. That makes a lot of sense.

Dooga writes...

Having the same problems on Android tv boxes. On one I have Aust as an option, on the other I don't.

very strange...plus PIA has no proper uninstall exe so its hard to know if you have done a clean install.

I hope they add the Australian gateway to enable Port Forwarding. That would be nice :)

O.P.

Jotunheim writes...

I hope they add the Australian gateway to enable Port Forwarding.

They wouldn't because it's not a torrent friendly country.

I used it years ago but just lately i've found port forwarding unnecessary. I guess it depends on what swarms you are connecting to.

Can anyone on PIA get Hulu to work?
Also do they support OpenVPN and Viscocity?

fffff1 writes...

Can anyone on PIA get Hulu to work?

If you connect to a USA server � yes it will work.

Also do they support OpenVPN and Viscocity?

Yes.

I tried some US servers and Hulu complains that they don't like anonymous connections

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fffff1 writes...

I tried some US servers and Hulu complains that they don't like anonymous connections

Give me a few mins and ill test it out my self. :)

Edit:

I just tried Cyberchost, BufferedVPN, PIA and PureVPN they seem to not be working sadly.

Edit2 just tried ExpressVPN and it too doesn't work.

I was hoping BufferedVPN would work. I would have thought PureVPN would work too as they have smartDNS option.

With PIA, sometimes I get weird IP addresses. Example sometime when I connect to Netherlands I get an IP starting with 46 which I believe is a USA IP address. Sometimes when connecting to Canada I get Seychelles.

fffff1 writes...

I was hoping BufferedVPN would work. I would have thought PureVPN would work too as they have smartDNS option.

IMO you could try proxy.sh and torguard that have stealth servers in the USA and that should work.

To manually update the regions in the Application, All you will need to do is download this file to your system and place it in the correct location.

1. Disconnect From VPN
2. Exit VPN
3. From main desktop Click File Explorer.
4. Click on C: Drive
5. Click on Program Files.
6. Click on pia_manager folder
7. Click on data folder
8. Copy the file from above and paste file in this folder.
9. Click Yes to Overwrite and replace file
10. Restart system
11. Once system is back up you should now see Australia at bottom of list when you click on System Tray Icon

Cagey writes...

To manually update the regions in the Application, All you will need to do is download this file to your system and place it in the correct location.

Cagey,
Any ideas how to do this in Android. I have reinstalled with no success. Unfortunalety I'm not at home at the moment to search thru the file structure in Android to see if I can find similar folders within the apk.
Cheers

Unfortunately, whirlpool still thinks those of using encryption are crooks, and provides a captcha before you can browse this site.

Taking it a bit personally aren't we? Google and others do similar things to protect against abuse � much of which comes from rerouted/proxied/encrypted/tor-ed connections. The idea is to simply make it more difficult to use automated tools to abuse such connections � if you're a human (are you? *raises eyebrow*) and you still have trouble with it, then you may have a legitimate complaint... But if it's just an annoyance, well, that's the price you pay for sharing a connection type with many serial trolls, spammers and scammers.

I'm on board with the idea of a fully anonymised net, but whingeing about decent companies/sites attempting to protect themselves from known abuse vectors is not really very constructive.

MatthewQ writes...

Taking it a bit personally aren't we?

lol I said a similar thing. I am on jjcoolaus side.

flap me. Simon Wright please remove this shit. It's bypass able and useless.

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They wouldn't because it's not a torrent friendly country.

What does this even mean? A "torrent friendly country", did you just make that up?

Canada, Netherlands, France, all have port forwarded gateways, and all three torrent heavily.

I imagine it has little to do with the country and more to do with the backend infrastruture (content provider) being used.

@Dooga � same thing here, noticed even Israel isn't on the list yet either. Still waiting for them to update their Android app software to include these countries.

What does this even mean? A "torrent friendly country", did you just make that up?

It has to do with DMCA complaints.

lol I said a similar thing. I am on jjcoolaus side.

I'm not saying he and you don't have legitimate arguments on your side � but the hyperbolic "you're treating us like criminals!" line is really not doing him any favours.

Captchas are stil a common-sense step to protect a site from some forms of abuse � this is backed by the fact that Google still employ them often if you attempt to access Search or other facilities through a tor exit node or known open proxy. If affected users have a better suggestion, I'm sure Simon would be receptive (he's pretty good at listening to reasoned feedback).

MatthewQ writes...

I'm not saying he and you don't have legitimate arguments on your side � but the hyperbolic "you're treating us like criminals!" line is really not doing him any favours.

All I am saying is how the hell did "whirlpool forum" block all the ip address so so quickly? and started "captcha" for Private internet accress people.

and started "captcha" for Private internet accress people.

With Cyberghost I get : Access to whirlpool.net.au from this location has been restricted due to suspicious activity.

Not even a Captcha depending on the server location.
I also find banks and Gmail don't like VPNs.

All I am saying is how the hell did "whirlpool forum" block all the ip address so so quickly? and started "captcha" for Private internet accress people.

There may be other information being gleaned from your PIA connection, similar to how proxied connections something provide an X-Forwarded-For header. Likely nothing so obvious, but it could have been picked up by some previously-automated process to detect VPN or proxied connection attempts.

It could also have been simply that you attempted to log into your account from 'a different country', so WP automatically puts up a small roadblock against bots capturing login details from somewhere and using them to spam or such.

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teun writes...

With Cyberghost I get : Access to whirlpool.net.au from this location has been restricted due to suspicious activity.

I know. I use Buffered VPN and they use one single shared IP address on there Australian servers and it has not been blocked yet.

But the Australian Govt uses (Servers Australia) which Buffered VPN host with.

I have got so cross with the whirlpool captcha that I have added a route so that I connect to wp directly. On a Mac:

sudo route add -net 117.53.166.22/32 192.168.1.254

added a route so that I connect to wp directly

Can this be done in Windows too ?
If it is possible can you show how � or is this specific for PIA

teun writes...

Can this be done in Windows too ?

from elevated command prompt:

route add -p 117.53.166.22 MASK 255.255.255.255 [insert your router address]

from elevated command prompt:

Thanks

if you haven't already you are STRONGLY advised to use the SOCKS5 proxy in Australia.

Why this particular proxy ???

Yes, why use SOCKS5 when you can just use the VPN and bind your torrent client to it. Is there any advantage to using SOCKS5?

uad782 writes...

why use SOCKS5 when you can just use the VPN and bind your torrent client to it. Is there any advantage to using SOCKS5?

Well if your VPN drops out and your torrenting bang your REAL ip is leaked.

That's why SOCK5 is useful it takes over and your REAL ip is still hidden. it's only for the paranoid people like jjcoolaus (I am just kidding) .:)

Well if your VPN drops out and your torrenting bang your REAL ip is leaked.

You could just setup your router to be your VPN gateway, tag all traffic from your torrent machine and route it through the VPN interface with no failover.. that way, unless your VPN is up, no torrent traffic until it comes up again..

You could just setup your router to be your VPN gateway

+1 You just add a kill switch in dd wrt if the VPN drops no thoughput. :)

But we have to remember the average joes are not really using OpenVPN client on the router they are using OpenVPN clients on the computer or bloated VPN software from the VPN company's with kill switches.

the average joes are not really using OpenVPN client on the router

neither am I .. most semi-decent routers have inbuilt VPN client capabilities ..

I tried to set up sock5 on my torrents using the link provided in an earlier post, but my torrents wouldn't start.

So at the moment I have my torrents only going through my VPN. I only want my torrent activity hidden and have the kill switches set. So do I need to to set up the sock5? Is there any benefit to setting up a sock5?

You can bind your VPN to your bittorrent client. When the VPN drops out so does the bittorret data.

No real IP is leaked!

uad782 writes...

You can bind your VPN to your bittorrent client. When the VPN drops out so does the bittorret data.

No real IP is leaked!

Isn't that what the kills switches do?

What setup are people using for their VPN's to PIA?
I was looking at TP-Link Archer D7, but I can't find any information that these actually work with PIA.

leonhart83 writes...

What setup are people using for their VPN's to PIA?

I am sure that most people are doing computer to PIA connections.

I was looking at TP-Link Archer D7, but I can't find any information that these actually work with PIA.

Since the D7 does support IPSec tunnels you should be able to make it work. There is some discussion in this thread /archive/2264209 At least it might indicate who to ask.

vpn.ac have just set up a sever in Melbourne.

Haven't checked the speed yet.

you should check the speed

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http://s29.postimg.org/cyifujgx3/Screenshot_1.png

you should check the speed

Ill get a 7 day trial and check it out. :)

EDIT : I cannot pay the invoice ATM.

this post was edited

vpn.ac

No VPN: http://www.speedtest.net/result/3965540458.png

VPN (Melbourne): http://www.speedtest.net/result/3965552631.png (OpenVPN-256 UDP8000)

On client software indicating IP is Australia but location as Netherlands.....??

hmmmm???

this post was edited

scrag writes...

VPN (Melbourne): http://www.speedtest.net/result/3965552631.png (OpenVPN-256 UDP8000)

The Australia server seem to be ok on blowfish via my router

EDIT: It feels like they are using a low end server but.

EDIT2: IMO It's not bad bang for buck. The routing is good and overseas speeds are not bad. You dont get the captcha on whirlpool forum. 7/10 for me.

EDIT2: IMO It's not bad bang for buck. The routing is good and overseas speeds are not bad. You dont get the captcha on whirlpool forum. 7/10 for me.

What I use it for it's ok. I got them for US$31 on the Black Friday deal. Not sure what PIA is like compared to vpn.ac?

vpn.ac support seems good so far though.

scrag writes...

What I use it for it's ok. I got them for US$31 on the Black Friday deal. Not sure what PIA is like compared to vpn.ac?

IMO AES 256bit was slow as all hell to me � when I changed to blowfish the speed improved massively I was maxing out my connection.

I was getting 50 kb/s on AES 256 bit. Only costed me $2.40 meh.

Trying out Viscosity � much, much better speeds.

scrag writes...

Trying out Viscosity � much, much better speeds.

Make sure you ticked the box "send all traffic over vpn" :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0i38iv35boo9j62/Region_Data.txt

Make sure you ticked the box "send all traffic over vpn" :)

Absolutely ;) and have Open DNS set as well to stop those consistent leaks.

I just signed up for Private Internet Access & set up the Socks5 proxy-nl.privateinternetaccess.com without any issues on Utorrent, tested & reported as working.

However from time to time (not often) I may want my browser to not be geo blocked, is there a simple addon for FireFox that I can turn on/off at will?

I did try the VPN software however I have four outlook.com emails & I had to verify everyone after so really have no interest in VPN software.

Do you guys connect to the PIA Australian server when torrenting or do you still use an overseas server (eg HK)?

If I use Socks5 proxy-nl.privateinternetaccess.com with Utorrent I don't have to enable the PIA proxy via windows?

Simo135 writes...

Do you guys connect to the PIA Australian server when torrenting or do you still use an overseas server (eg HK)?

I always use the Australian server as it seems to be quicker for general browser and internet use. i.e. I can leave the VPN all the time and not feel like its slowing me down.

What is the point is spoofing a foreign IP for downloading?

Cagey writes...

To manually update the regions in the Application, All you will need to do is download this file to your system and place it in the correct location.

Thanks that worked.

What is the point is spoofing a foreign IP for downloading?

I don't know what you mean. I think you mean "What's the point of using a foreign server for downloading?"

It would be for laws relating to country the server is in. An Australian court will compel PIA to hand over the logs and all your personal iinformation if you were to do something illegal.

they can say they dont keep logs but that's probably illegal not to in Australia so they are liars, and will happily sell you out. If you used a server in another country they may not need to keep logs and you may be more anonymous when you are doing your illegal activities.

An Australian court will compel PIA to hand over the logs and all your personal iinformation

That's awesome.

It's a pity PIA don't keep logs :) They can compel all they want.

It's a pity PIA don't keep logs :)

as far as we know by what PIA tell us.
but if the server is on a machine in Australia they will have to keep logs or face hefty fines and maybe get raided and confiscated.
Its sad that weve become worse than China.

pactrpo writes...

but if the server is on a machine in Australia they will have to keep logs or face hefty fines

Point me to the law that states that foreign VPN providers who have servers in Australia have to keep logs or face fines.

Point me to the law that states that foreign VPN providers who have servers in Australia have to keep logs or face fines.

and where does it say it doesn't?

Sounds like your just spreading FUD pactrpo

pactrpo writes...

and where does it say it doesn't?

This has to be one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

Are you suggesting that if a law doesn't exist, the default position should be to assume it does in fact exist?

You do recognise how ludicrous that position is?

the default position should be to assume it does in fact exist

It's been pointed many a time here on WP that using a VPN's Australian or US servers can be risky.

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K�nigin writes...

It's been pointed many a time here on WP that using a VPN's Australian or US servers can be risky.

Who's been saying that, and what makes their statements trustworthy?

Post some links.

It's data retention laws bro. Have you been in a cave?
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22legislation%2Fems%2Fr5375_ems_e6cf11b4-5a4e-41bc-ae27-031e2b90e001%22

It's data retention laws bro. Have you been in a cave?

yes in a supposedly secure from laws VPN cave.

just because the owner of the server is located offshore doesn't mean they are above the law. anyway do they think they have diplomatic immunity?

so ppl use a offshore server for piece of mind.

Fact 1: there is no law that says a VPN provider has to keep logs

Fact 2: PIA does not keep logs

Fact 3: the data sent to and received from PIA is encrypted.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is as the the facts stated above confirm it is currently impossible to be caught downloading copyright material while using PIA via Australian or foreign VPN.

IS PIA still the default recommanded VPN for torrents?

With talks about Murdoch's lap dog (aka our Government) on the push to block torrent sites, I just want to give them the middle finger by torrenting more... :P

Speed isn't that much of an issue for me, seeing how I usually just leave my computer on overnight for torrents and I'm stuck with ADSL 1 speeds until any ISP other than Telstra builds their own exchange in my 'pesudo rural' suburb.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is as the the facts stated above confirm it is currently impossible to be caught downloading copyright material

Brother we're talking about the very near future. The introduction of data retention laws & the new anti piracy laws. It's a deadly 2 punch combo that will TKO anyone using a VPN with an Australian server.

I think maybe you're going through the early stages of grief & loss of cultural innocence, loss of an Australilan way of life. It's revealing itself as anger and you're denying the reality of the situation. You need to get on top of this and return to this thread revitalised & thinking more clearly

I'd just like to point out that the data retention laws are only policy at the moment, policy that is subject to change.

That being said � the policy at the moment is only for ISP's to keep metadata, NOT VPN providers.

I understand there are people here that would like to discuss the topic based on worst case scenario. Lets just stick to the facts though as to not confuse people.

Talk of VPN providers having to keep logs by law or face fines, or offshore VPN providers having to keep logs where they have servers in Australia is just speculation, has no basis of fact and is void of evidence.

Maybe not a cave, more a tunnel. ;-)

My understanding is that the data retention laws will apply to providers of 'carriage services'. PIA do not provide a 'carriage service'.

PIA's AU servers are hosted by Choopa LLC (deduced from being the owners of the IP addresses used by PIA). Choopa appear to be a provider of managed servers � again not a carriage service provider.

Choopa must be using an Internet service provider (a traceroute suggests this is equinix or vocus). This ISP is the provider of 'carriage services' and will, I assume, be required to keep records.

So it seems to me that PIA is two steps away from the service provider who will be required to keep records. And those records will show PIA's servers connecting to web sites around the world � that is PIA will be the source IP address.

And PIA say they do not keep logs and I don't see that they will be required to do so.

So nothing that can identify the internet activity of a particular PIA customer.

Correct me if I am wrong.

And thanks for providing the link.

Correct me if I am wrong.

No, you are absolutely correct.

The scaremongering here is strong.

Correct me if I am wrong.

That's how I understand it completely.

No, you are absolutely correct.

The scaremongering here is strong.

Too true � and once you check the track record of those promoting the FUD you'll understand why it should be ignored.

this post was edited

Do you work for turnbull?

think maybe you're going through the early stages of grief & loss of cultural innocence, loss of an Australilan way of life. It's revealing itself as anger and you're denying the reality of the situation. You need to get on top of this and return to this thread revitalised & thinking more clearly

lol thanks for that!

Ill keep dealing in facts and you keep providing the laughs.

Ill keep dealing in facts and you keep providing the laughs.

The rest of society will continue torrenting while he meditates and finds his solar plexus.

working families writes...

My understanding is that the data retention laws will apply to providers of 'carriage services'. PIA do not provide a 'carriage service'.

Brother if you could put on your common sense cap for moment, it would be down right silly for a terrorist to be able to use a vpn server located in Australia and be able to circumvent our Data Retention laws, the most draconian of any free country.

We define a vpn here:

Subsection 187A(3)�Application of Part 5-1A to certain services
27. Subsection 187A(3) will set out the services to which the data retention obligations under Part 5-1A of the Act will apply. Data retention obligations will only apply to services that satisfy paragraphs 187A(3)(a), (b) and �.
28. Paragraph 187A(3)(a) will provide that the Part applies to a service if it is a service for carrying communications, or that enable communications to be carried, by guided or unguided electromagnetic energy or both. Section 5 of the TIA Act defines the term �carry� for the purposes of the TIA Act. The term is defined in the same manner as in the Telecommunications Act, but should be interpreted in light of the objective of the TIA Act to allow for lawful access to communications in relation to law enforcement and national security investigations. The concept of �enabling� a communication to be carried is intended to put beyond doubt that data retention obligations apply to relevant services that operate �over the top� of, or in conjunction with, other services that carry communications.

It really comes down to how much you trust PIA when they say they don't keep logs.

Obviously, without some kind of external independent code audit they can't prove it, so we just need to take them at their word.

Unless anyone is aware of examples where law enforcement has tried to get logs from them?

It really comes down to how much you trust PIA when they say they don't keep logs.

Could you imagine how long their business would stand up if even just a single incident came to light where they actually did keep a log and were required to hand it over to anyone under the requirements of a court order. I'd imaging it would make the customer exodus from Vodafone a year or two back look like a small blip on the scale. A bit like corporate suicide.

We define a vpn here:

I don't think anything in the document directly relates to VPN service. But...

Subsection 187A(3)�Application of Part 5-1A to certain services......

Thank you for pointing me at page 42. I am starting to agree with you in that the wording could be applied to VPN services though what the provider would have to keep is unclear.

Our ISP will be collecting source, destination, date/time and quantity of our VPN traffic.

VPN services in general are not easy for the legislation to incorporate as VPNs are an essential part of the way that business and government operate. The collection of metadata relating to the content passing through a VPN tunnel will be resisted very strongly. It would require a distinction between consumer and business VPNs.

The concept of �enabling� a communication to be carried is intended to put beyond doubt that data retention obligations apply to relevant services that operate �over the top� of, or in conjunction with, other services that carry communications.

Page 41 has email, instant message and voip services as examples of over the top service, and I think this relates to where those those services are being provided by a carrier.

My 2 cents:

From my understanding of the law, if you are based outside of Australia, then you are not bound by Australian laws. US company = they only adhere to US laws. (Which are worrying on there own)

That being said the goverment at any time could change the laws and make it that any company with servers in Australia have to abide my Australian law, if that were to happen you would see most VPN companies take there servers out of Australia.

But even if they don't, what stops the government from tapping into those servers now? Its against the law, but in the name of terrorism, the government can do what they want in there own country.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is as the the facts stated above confirm it is currently impossible to be caught downloading copyright material while using PIA via Australian or foreign VPN.

Not impossible, but highly unlikely. In the regards to torrenting copyrighted content, the people who are after you are movie studios not the police or the government. All they do is monitor swarms and log IP's and send letters. If you're using a proxy or a vpn, they will send a letter to the provider, and the provider will simply say we don't log, and thats the end of that.

J.C. writes...

That's true...I still think my point stands though. We not only trust them to tell the truth, but also to be competent enough at what they do, to not make mistakes that could lead to something being recorded accidentally.

O.P.

http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3979182969

I sincerely hope you return to this thread in about May 2016 after the new laws have been in place for a year and nobody has been caught using PIA, Astrill, hide me, or any other VPN provider that allows torrents over their Australian server.

I know we will be here to watch you gloat, if indeed it turns out you are right.

But if you are not right, I hope you return to the thread (most people don't in that situation)

Interesting speed test results: