NBN Co have always had the flexibility to change the proportions so that satellite could be 3% and FW be on 4% and vice versa.
Yet you don't have figures to back that up..!
that is not what Malcolm says, he has stated on numerous occassions that the end goal IS fibre
The goal of the NBN is not to build a fibre network. The purpose of the NBN was, apparently, to allow others to compete against Telstra and to deliver better broadband to underserved areas (mainly rural and remote Australia) at a basic wholesale price equivalent to those in the capital cities.
The 7% of premises on FW and satellite remains the same.
How is that mathematically possible given that areas have gone from FTTP to satellite?
The goal of the NBN is not to build a fibre network. The purpose of the NBN was, apparently, tallow others to compete against Telstra and to deliver better broadband to underserved areas (mainly rural and remote Australia) at a basic wholesale price equivalent to those in the capital cities.
words fail me as to your total misunderstanding of the original project
You even use the word "apparently" in describing its goals, so you have no flipping idea, you are just making stuff up
The goal of the NBN is not to build a fibre network.
What is your goal in repeatedly posting this fallacy?
At least Fixed Wireless and Sky Muster are decent services.
Yep. Got to give Labor big credit for that right? Turnbull didn't even want the satellites. All the connections on fixed wireless and satellite are thanks to Labors policy. The Libs added nothing new. They are taking credit for riding on the coattails of Labor though.
Turnbull has said it is.
All around the world, the same thing is being said. They are heading in that direction with their rollout because of the obvious benefits. Its sad the Libs and their supporters are making it so hard to get there, and that it seems we now have fibre deniers as well as climate change deniers amongst their ranks. Doesn't augur well for their future.
How is that mathematically possible given that areas have gone from FTTP to satellite?
Anywhere from 6.5% to 7.4999999999999999% is 7% as far as KingForce's simplistic claim is concerned... if we're talking about 12 million premises that means that anything less than (or "up to" for the MTM fans) 120,000 premises can be shifted without invalidating the claim.
Of course the fact that the satellites were designed for only about double or triple that number of customers altogether is neither here nor there...
Whilst you appear to be happy to criticize and there is nothing wrong with that if it is constructive, please take the time to let me know how you would get Australia back into the top 10 in the world for average peak download speeds before the decade ends and on the podium for leadership in the digital economy.
I am interested in this answer as well seeing as we are supposed to believe fibre is not the end game. Hard to climb up on that podium that will be filled with countries using fibre, when we aren't supposed be building a fibre network ourselves. What magic is going to see our copper compete with fibre?
You even use the word "apparently" in describing its goals, so you have no flipping idea, you are just making stuff up
Basically we are getting trollolllold. 93% Fibre and 7% wireless as the original NBN.
It was that simple really.
Arg.
Today's Department of Australia article is on point...
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
This is what I believe -> http://johnmenadue.com/blog/?p=6536
Which basically accuses the government of a cover up and you infer that the police didn't do their job properly.
Of course, the leaks added nothing substantial to the NBN debate. For example, the progress of the NBN can easily be accessed through NBN Co's website. In fact, in your interview this morning, you've admitted that NBN Co are reaching targets. You say that targets were set too low but I say they were readjusted to something more realistic.
If we were to switch back to FTTP now then NBN Co says it would take until 2026 to complete the NBN.
Even if that were the case (and it's not, because NBN are lying about it), it's a far better idea to rollout one network that will last at least 50+ years for $50-60b than rollout an incompetent network for $50-60b that needs replacing after merely 10 years because it can't cope.
I've never supported the NBN. I'm one of the 15% that are sceptical.
You mean you are one of the 6% who will vote Liberal and not support an NBN.
Ideally, the Coalition/Labor should cut back the scope of the NBN and cut government services to help pay for any losses on our investment.
Ideally, we should ditch Turnbull MTM and forge ahead with a sensible plan to get us to a future of fibre. Labors NBN was going to provide a valuable and future-proof asset from taxpayer funds. The Libs simply will not. That is what we need to address, Liberals waste of taxpayer funds. What is their MTM policy for the next election? It look like its still copper or bust. Actually the reality is its coppers doing a bust is the best they can muster! :) Secrecy must rule the day. No problem with that though right Kingforce?
Of course
You keep using those words. I do not think they mean, what you think they mean :P
You even use the word "apparently" in describing its goals, so you have no flipping idea, you are just making stuff up
It's an interpretation of the 2010 NBN Co Statement of Expectations. Yes, I know the competition and cross subsidy reasons behind the NBN sounds less sexy but that is the purpose of the NBN.
You even use the word "apparently"
No, I use the word "apparently" because � according to Whirlpool theory � other ISPs couldn't compete against Telstra on their own, they needed massive government intervention to do the job.
I note that satellite users are having problem relating to quotas and contention. Most likely caused by Malcolm's decision to reduce fixed line access to many users who were getting FTTP with Labor's plan. This overload problem will only get worse over time.
Of course, the leaks added nothing substantial to the NBN debate
http://img.photobucket.com/a
How's those < 14 people happy with FTTN going for yu?
http://www.aph.gov.au/~/m
For example, the progress of the NBN can easily be accessed through NBN Co's website.
OK, so then, you should be able to find the figures for fttp, fttn , hfc, fixed wireless and satellite
She hinted that you might be too political.
Since when has being politically biased been an issue for you?
You've done well for yourself given you illiteracy and innumeracy problems then. ;)
Keep up the good work.
carefull Dutton will try and revoke your visa, citizenship and just be very careful how you answer this question "did you in arrive Australia by boat"
You should have been here when Labor was in charge. The public had to wait for every four months to get official figures!
As opposed to waiting every 4 years under the LNP?
We havn't had anything solid, no forecasts that were accurate. Everything is just a dark secret with the MTM.
I'm not even sure we are getting anything on the 56 billion dollars spent.
The tax payers and Australian's deserve better.
Keep digging.
Careful...He may dig up your fibre, if he digs far enough! ;)
-----------------------------
What I don't understand, is why the ALP � Should they win in July, don't just stop the FTTN rollout at whatever state it's at, in July, immediately commence FTTP/H rollout again, and once everyone is on the NBN, go back and restore the FTTN connections, to FTTP/H.
This seems like the most sensible route to go, instead of TRYING FTTdp, or combining both the rollout of FTTP/H as well as 'fixing' FTTN simultaneously, does it not?
As opposed to waiting every 4 years under the LNP?
Excuse me but you obviously haven't been to the NBN web site where you can find hundreds of useless blogs that will help you in whatever you are searching for...
/s (I'm not being sarcastic about the useless blogs though.. they truly are useless)
Sigh I can see where he's coming from, but so many points that have been debunked keep get thrown around in these "opinion" pieces.
If only people actually studied the topic before writing opinion pieces..
Too much to ask?
TRYING FTTdp
Is similar to trying fttn, it's just a shorter length of copper (less than 100m). They still need power and you're only saving on running a connection direct to the house. Seems like a waste to me.
As the taxi driver said, �Mate this election is about food on the table and a debt-free future for the kids � not this NBN rubbish that will all be sorted anyway.�
So a person who has a great deal to lose with the inevitable deregulation and eventual robot automation of his job has a negative opinion about the nbn. Who saw that coming?
NBN on ABC 702 starting at 37:40
Thanks for posting that Mark. It's a shame that they didn't take more callers. I note that discussion goes through to 59:00.
Wendy Harmer: "We have so many callers really I wasn't really able to put many on in the time given ..."
Would have been interesting to hear the concerns of more callers and the chance for those that have been influenced by the LNP FUD to have heard the rational responses that Mark provides to rebut the FUD.
Seen one on a node which is a worthy fizza
Seen a few around its hilariously funny and a genius who drew it.
Shame they have been scrapped off. Maybe MT getting his crew to do the dirty work again.
I would be more concerned about the private debt your kids will be left with because of insanely high housing and education costs. After all it is the private debt that is the greatest danger. Malcolm has no intention of dealing with the issue
As the taxi driver said, �Mate this election is about food on the table and a debt-free future for the kids � not this NBN rubbish that will all be sorted anyway.�
Well when you know nothing about anything ..... driving a cab is one of the few careers available.
I would be more concerned about
I think you're in the wrong place...You want this thread, instead:
As it says at the top of every page, in this thread:
Discussion needs to be "NBN" related, not other politics
Not sure whether it's true or not, but....
IN the context it was true .... about the stuff up with the FTTN rollout in the Hunter from memory.
By way of balance does anyone know anywhere where an FTTN rollout has gone well and resulted in happy customers?
Excuse me but you obviously haven't been to the NBN web site where you can find hundreds of useless blogs that will help you in whatever you are searching for...
/s (I'm not being sarcastic about the useless blogs though.. they truly are useless)
What that site is still up?
Time and time I have been fed bullshit and disappointed, I stopped visiting few months after MTM took charge. Probably no coincidence there.
By way of balance
I've been trawling the NBN section of WP for a while now, and while there have been 'satisfied' comments, they're incredibly scattered, and in the majority of cases, surrounded on both sides, by people with problems and complaints.
I would speculate that the people with the shortest copper run from the node to the premises have some hope of being happy for a time. This of course is the crux of the issue. The dead end nature of the MTM. There is just nowhere left for it to go.
NBN web site where you can find hundreds of useless blogs
The blogs have a purpose, just not one that most of us find useful. It's a marketing tool designed to reach the "undecided" with the "gee wiz" of nbn to convince them to connect to this nbn thing they've heard about instead of staying an mobile-only or no-Internet household.
Whilst you appear to be happy to criticize and there is nothing wrong with that if it is constructive, please take the time to let me know how you would get Australia back into the top 10 in the world for average peak download speeds before the decade ends and on the podium for leadership in the digital economy.
crickets ....
Fair enough. But if NBN Co should do all their work in-house then why you didn't mention the contractor model during the Wendy Harmer interview?
Answer:
And I tried to get as much as possible into the interview, there were many things that did not fit in ...
She hinted that you might be too political.
Actually Wendy Harmer hinted no such thing at all � there were callers that wanted to know. Mark answered this. Unfortunately people like yourself Kingee just cannot comprehend that there might be people in Australia that want the best and most cost effective telecommunications infrastructure rolled out across Australia. Unfortunately again the NBN has been politicised by both parties. All experts agree FttP is what should be being done. Turnbull and Fifield have been deaf to this advice.
But you obviously had enough time to mention that Malcolm Turnbull was deliberately wrecking the NBN.
To industry experts this is simply a fact.
I've argued that the HFC using DOCSIS 3.0 should be upgraded and added to the NBN as a temporary measure whilst the FTTP is rolled out everywhere else and when this is done the HFC should be decommissioned and replaced with FTTP.
I think (hope) Labor will have a look at this. Done properly it could be a quick, cost-effective, short to medium term solution to allow the NBNCo to focus on FTTP elsewhere. If it's limited to residential areas then it probably doesn't need to deliver more than (say) 50/10.
I've never argued that the HFC should be upgraded later, and I've argued many times that the DOCSIS 3.1 upgrade could end up costing more than anyone imagines
Yep. The Coalition's mistake is to think HFC is a long term solution.
You should have been here when Labor was in charge. The public had to wait for every four months to get official figures!
I had to wait 3 years to find out if and when I'd be receiving anything after being mysteriously removed from the NBN Maps (with construction due to commence status) the moment this current mob was elected. That's 3 years of silence, zip, zero, nothing! 3 years after construction was suppose to commence for the real NBN in the area under Labor!
Turnbull got it right for Terry McCann's Murdoch owned businesses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/
Turnbull got it right on NBN
failed all-fibre $100 billion-plus fantasy of Kevin Rudd and Stephen Conroy.
Licensed to lie.
provided the current MTM � Multi-Technology Mix of fibre, HFC (hybrid fibre coaxial), and targeted and still very effective copper � build continues, almost all of Australia and just about every Australian will be connected by 2020.
"will". Not even the Minister or NBN would dare use the word "will" in that sentence.
McCann "will" most likely be wrong in using that word "will".
He obviously has on concept of "risk".
You should have been here when Labor was in charge. The public had to wait for every four months to get official figures!
I would have had it by now...
This sort of blind irrational partisanship is a disease that seems to have infected us and the USA. Blind to all facts and intelligent argument. Blind to fairness and logic. All the setup time required for any major project is just ignored. that's why I hate elections, its all about "me" not Australia.
I would argue it is still the most important progress indicator.
It depends where you are in the reporting hierarchy. The joint oversight committee just wanted to know how many premises for each technology were going to be RFS at each quarter and how many would have active services, and the actuals against those targets. They didn't care about construction commenced and neither should they imo. That's for people lower down the management chain.
I think the biggest problem with construction commenced was that it started at such an early stage, initial design iirc. That's meaningless other than at the lower levels of management.
What I wanted to know, and what I want to know now, is when am I going to be RFS. I don't care when you put pen to paper for initial design. Just tell me when I will be able to get a service. With Labor that was all. With the Coalition I also want to know what technology I will get.
The weekly progress reports for example tell us nothing of the February 2016 shortfall in Final Detailed Design approvals being half of the target figure expected for that date.
I think weekly reporting is ridiculous. Monthly forecasts for the next six months, quarterly for the twelve months after that plus two and three years out should be ok for an oversight committee. For me, just show me what I'm getting and when based on those forecasts.
I hope Mr McCann does not consider himself a journalist. I would get onto the ACCC about labeling laws if that was the case. Journalist report facts and understanding behind those facts- not regurgitate Tea Party propaganda,
guys i was in NBN forum with Gai brodtman mp and stephen jones mp , bill shorten will announce the nbn policy very soon
I hope Mr McCann does not consider himself a journalist
I stopped reading the Herald Scum and their conservative influenced anti-NBN reporting long ago. McCrann is just another Murdoch conservative puppet.
guys how i can see the video for senator conroy ? he spoke at 7pm on sky news !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tonight on the show, Labor's Stephen Conroy speaks out for the first time since police raided his Melbourne office. 7pm on Sky News Australia
this is the link : https://twitter.com/SkyNewsAu
McCann "will" most likely be wrong in using that word "will".
Opps Terry McCann was the Dennis Watermann's "Minder" in the UK TV show "Minder",
a British comedy-drama about the London criminal underworld.
Sorry Terry McCrann.
http://www.celebrity
Edit. Sorry Dennis. Your early. Not late.
The joint oversight committee just wanted to know how many premises for each technology were going to be RFS at each quarter and how many would have active services, and the actuals against those targets.
And as was stated, such targets in the initial stages of the rollout are so low as to be virtually meaningless. I dont know about you but I consider myself to be a part of the 'extended oversight committee'. I don't really care so much about what has been done, I am more interested in what is being done.
I think the biggest problem with construction commenced was that it started at such an early stage, initial design iirc.
I understand the argument but think that a detailed understanding of the construction stages renders it moot. This argument has been done. nbnTM have changed the single 'construction commenced' metric into two separate metrics, 'build prep' and 'build commenced'. This was readily understood by getting to the next level of detail in what comprised the initial 'construction commenced' metric, the various stages were clearly articulated.
The real issue is that there is no publicly available data for either of these new metrics (that I am aware of). I understand some of this information is available to RSPs to allow them to plan for new areas coming online (I think this is where jxeeno gets his data for his superior website).
What I wanted to know, and what I want to know now, is when am I going to be RFS.
I agree, to a point. How is the nbn website working for you in that regard? However, I am already connected. I don't know about you, but I am still very interested in how the remainder of the rollout is progressing.
I think weekly reporting is ridiculous.
Weekly reporting for actuals is a single database query, automatically generated. If it isn't, someone needs to be sacked. It is the easy part of progress reporting, thats why the company is doing it. The issue is that it says very little about the stuff in progress.
Monthly forecasts for the next six months, quarterly for the twelve months after that plus two and three years out should be ok for an oversight committee.
I would argue it should be monthly updates for the 'construction commenced' (or 'build prep' and 'build commenced' if you prefer) and quarterly updates for the 'three year forecasts'.
For me, just show me what I'm getting and when based on those forecasts.
I want to know the state of the overall project (and not just because I am already connected).
And as was stated, such targets in the initial stages of the rollout are so low as to be virtually meaningless.
I disagree. You plan and measure from the start. The numbers might be small but they're still important. Missing early targets could be a sign of things to come. Detect it early and fix it early.
The real issue is that there is no publicly available data for either of these new metrics ...
Yep. Under Labor the metric was meaningless. Under the Coalition it's not reported.
I agree, to a point. How is the nbn website working for you in that regard?
I meant "I" in the general not in the specific. What I think people want to know is when they will be able to connect. I have never been on the visible schedule.
Weekly reporting for actuals is a single database query, automatically generated.
On a project of this nature, weekly reporting to the public or a steering committee is meaningless. There are way too many fluctuations at that level. It can only misinform.
I would argue it should be monthly updates for the 'construction commenced' (or 'build prep' and 'build commenced' if you prefer) and quarterly updates for the 'three year forecasts'.
Monthly updates are only relevant if you have monthly targets. So, set targets and then report against them. We're not far out on the timeframes.
I want to know the state of the overall project (and not just because I am already connected).
As I said, I meant "I" as a random member of the public. It's what I think any member of the public wants from the NBNCo. afaik we've never had it.
This sort of blind irrational partisanship is a disease
A disease called money...he is literally a paid shill.
I was at an economic update today and an economist was talking about how Australia debt to GDP is very low when compared to the rest of the world and we should be borrowing at record low interest rates to fund infrastructure.
I thought of the NBN...I got sad.
guys i was in NBN forum with Gai brodtman mp and stephen jones mp , bill shorten will announce the nbn policy very soon
Sorry ACTfireman (previous handle User 565319 I believe) if I take your posts with a grain of salt based on your track record.
Opps Terry McCann was the late Dennis Watermann's "Minder" in the UK TV show "Minder",
You gave me a scare there Phg. I just googled it up and it was his Minder co-star George Cole who passed last year aged 90. Dennis Waterman is still with us, thankfully, as is MTM.
Dennis Waterman is still with us, thankfully ...
I didn't think I heard that Dennis had kicked the bucket either. Thanks for checking and clarifying that.
... thankfully, as is MTM.
Did you actually mean that part?
The numbers might be small but they're still important.
The issue is that missing the target by a few days or a week early in such a rollout is not necessarily indicative of significant problems. It is just as likely to be indicative that the selected construction areas may have deviated to the high side of the assumed norm.
Under Labor the metric was meaningless.
What nonsense. By assigning a start date to each FSAM it became impossible to gloss over issues as they arose in the rollout. According to management the early issues that arose were in the design and remediation phases rather than the actual construction phase. Could this have been detected under the new regime? Of course more granularity will lead to increased clarity.
Under the Coalition it's not reported.
But nothing can be detected if it is not reported.
weekly reporting to the public or a steering committee is meaningless. There are way too many fluctuations at that level. It can only misinform.
Simply applying a rolling average to weekly fluctuations gives useful information. Actuals should be reported at the smallest reasonable frequency, as they become known.
Monthly updates are only relevant if you have monthly targets.
I don't agree. I think quarterly targets with monthly construction updates provides a level of granularity that will allow interested observers to track the rollout progress.
I welcome the additional granularity nbnTM have introduced into the rollout metrics. It is sad that they don't report publicly against them.
What nonsense.
We disagree. Fair enough. I fear we're off topic. Happy to continue if we're not. I suspect we'll come back to where we are though.
the is link for the video https://www.facebook.com/theb
Did you actually mean that part?
Had to say something to keep the post on-topic :-). But yes, I meant it: MTM is still with us, as is Dennis Waterman for which I am thankful. You can figure out which one I'm thankful for.
The world is being dumbed down politically and its getting worse
How rubbish is the future becoming
+100
The thing is, whatever they are fishing for doesn't exist.
I think you don't understand what they are fishing for.
I do not think they are fishing for actual answers, just which arguments that they or others can use that need very technical or datailed answers to disprove and so most people will either not understand or will switch off to especially if it is in a verbal setting like a public meeting or a kiosk.
You currently see Government Ministers standing there telling bald face mistruths with such conviction that people seem to believe them as facts, SoMo and Mathias the other day, they couldn't even get their claimed "black hole" of Labor policies consistent, some of it even differed to what Bishop had commented on re "foreign aid" the previous day, yet people are taken in.
Labor Pollies do not seem to be able to have that "authority" even when telling the truth
Fifield, Morrow and Turnabull tell huge porkies about MTM and are never challanged
Clare, Shorten and others start to tell what appears to be facts and get interupted mid sentance, thus breaking up their response
I think the Libs have all been hypnotised so that not only do they believe the "mistruths" are true but that they can now mesmerise anyone facing them directly, maybe interviewers need to keep their eyes closed
But it hurts their brain to have any logical thought.
Slogans and mantra's all that matters and bugger any actual thought.
The world is being dumbed down politically and its getting worse.
And that's freaking scary as the trend of anti-intellectual elitism is growing.
The NBN is being dumbed down to the MTM.
How rubbish is the future becoming.
There is a glimmer of hope, thanks to the internet. The current generation growing up are much more savy than the later generations. A lot of them seek truth and can google for answers.
The articles on main stream media with comments allowed shows how much anger there is on the MTM. This extends to other political articles, even the one regarding the joke Bill shorten made about spend-o-meter.
The public are seeing through the bullshit of the LNP. Its all talk and attack. NO SOUND Policies. The public may not like Bill Shorten, but they are the ones coming up with plans to provide something for this nation.
LNP, just slogans and attack another party. Nothing of substance. Like seriously, please come up with a policy or something you intend to do if they get a second term. The LNP are so dangerous to this country, god help us if they win a second term.
I find it funny that Karina is tweeting 5g broadband, whilst rolling out fttn..
https://mobile.twitter.com/k
Fifield, Morrow and Turnabull tell huge porkies about MTM and are never challanged
Clare, Shorten and others start to tell what appears to be facts and get interupted mid sentance, thus breaking up their response
This should warrant an ICAC / Royal Commission investigation.
Because making public statements that are lies to deliberately deceive the public (tax payers that fund the project) is fraud.
If I was running a publicly listed company on the ASX. I come out and make bold statements about meeting targets, the company is sound etc etc. But the books are all cooked, numbers are all fudged up. You would be charged with fraud and will be going to jail.
It should be no different to the NBN, a proper audit is required each year. Just like when the ALP was running it.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Herald Sun columnist McCrann gets key facts wrong in NBN attack
By Renai LeMay � 26/05/2016
news Herald Sun columnist Terry McCrann has published an article praising Malcolm Turnbull�s stewardship of the NBN project as his �greatest and unqualified achievement in Government�, but has based his argument on a number of inaccurate statements regarding the project.
itching the NBN�s model away from Labor�s FTTP approach and to a �Multi-Technology Mix� model which re-uses the copper and HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus, Turnbull has been able to successfully reform the project.
However, the columnist appears to have made a number of basic factual errors in his article.
The most glaring problem is that McCrann appears to attribute much of the progress which the NBN rollout has made over the past two and a half years since the Coalition has been in power to Turnbull�s NBN strategy, noting that the NBN announced this week that it has about a million customers, compared to about 100,000 when the Coalition took power.
However, the columnist does not appear to have informed readers that the vast majority of those customers are connected to Labor�s original FTTP model. The Coalition has made little progress so far connecting customers to its MTM technologies.
there's more.. read on..
People like McCrann, Bolt would never let facts get in the way of a big lie (by definition)
Herald Sun columnist McCrann gets key facts wrong in NBN attack
By Renai LeMay � 26/05/2016
The common thread here is that we see News Limited pushed article after article slamming the Labor NBN and making fake claims about how good the Liberal one is. And we are going to see more. Wait until Labor releases their policies and how it looks then.
The common thread here is that we see News Limited pushed article after article slamming the Labor NBN
We really need to shake up media moguls in this country. They have far too much power and influence.
Hopefully only to the converted they are preaching to.
http://www.lifehacker.com.au
On ABC�s Q&A this week, Christopher Pyne said the Coalition�s multi-technology NBN was fast enough for households to watch �five movies simultaneously�. Disregarding the irony of an innovation minister apparently missing the point of the national broadband network, the position is optimistic at best. Here�s why.
Read on
Why are Turnbull, Fifield and Morrow hiding NBN's problems from public scrutiny and why is the Coalition hell bent on �demolishing� this nation�s future as a leader in the digital economy?
In order for the coalition to be so hell-bent on this MTM nonsense, there HAS TO BE some kind of dark, shadowy presence, lurking in the deepest recesses of the LNP, who has far more than just a 'vested interest' in the inevitable failure of the NBN.
I mean, in all seriousness: Malcolm Turnbull is not a technological idjit � He knows full well that relying on copper, is beyond pathetic, but keeps touting it, as if someone had a gun to his dog.
There has to be someone or something, pulling his strings, and I don't think it's Chris Pyne � He IS a technological idjit!!
http://www.budde.com.au/News
Can we please have a rethink of the NBN soon after the election?
I will be the first to accept that with any new system there are teething problems, but, talking to the councils in the affected areas, none of them are happy. And they are all becoming increasingly confused about the NBN as a whole.
http://www.budde.com.au/New
This is one I'd like to see talked about ...
It is highly unlikely that the NBN company of itself will ever be able to provide the return on investment the government had hoped for, so let�s face reality, write off at least a large part of it, ...
There is no reason, other than privatisation, the NBNCo needs to make any return on investment to government. The government can get a return many times over from using a FTTP NBN to deliver services and from the GDP growth that will inevitably occur. That should be enough. They're happy with that approach for roads, why not the NBN?
Drop the need for the NBNCo to deliver a return directly and the NBNCo can reduce or even scrap CVC charges. That would take the artificial handbrake off FTTP and even more indirect benefits would flow.
The problem is the Coalition. They won't entertain the idea in government and in opposition they and their MTM backers would do everything they could to make it difficult for Labor. I very, very rarely wish ill on anyone but the world will be a better place when Rupert Murdoch departs.
I find it funny that Karina is tweeting 5g broadband, whilst rolling out fttn..
https://mobile.twitter.com/
So who is she working for?? Can't be NBN Co as they specifically do not do mobiles.
Is she now looking for a job back with Telstra or maybe Vodaphone...after the leaked docs raid debacle...
Lol, everyone who has a node near them should redecorate them like this!!!
Lol, everyone who has a node near them should redecorate them like this!!!
What aaaaaa fiizzzzaaaaaa
http://www.nvi.com.au/story/
It�s time for Mr Joyce to show some fibre and step up to explain to the people of the New England electorate where the rollout of the NBN is at and why it has stalled,� Mr Windsor said.
We really need to shake up media moguls in this country. They have far too much power and influence.
And yet we see Fifield and the LNP wanting to remove media ownership laws. Its utterly disgraceful. The media bias in this country is so right wing its crazy. The ABC with Leigh sales pandering like a little school girl to Turnbulls evey lie allowing him to say pretty much whatever he likes uncontested, and yet when shorten is on, when he tries to answer a question, she is straight down his throat so that he barely even gets a chance to respond, and cuts him off on every answer. Its crazy. How is Terry McCrans rubbish opinion piece even allowed in print, let alone any media? its disgraceful. We need an ICAC into the media in oz.
With NBN in particular it is not the cost to build that matters, it is the cost of not building the right network NOW!!
+100000 precisely.
MTM is a Monumental Terrible Mistake.
And businesses home or not is going to suffer the fate of the reliability issues from the MTM.
A great way to hurt profits to any kind of business who rely's on the internet.
Who supports the MTM does not support the digital economy and local businesses who rely on fast and reliable internet.
No wonder its heavily labeled as fraudband.
But I am also preaching to the choir apart from the MTM shills.
MTM shills.
Who still haven't acknowledged the cost and time blow outs.
The LNP promised 29.5 billion for 25mbs by 2016 � it's been linked to before and I'll do it again:
http://www.abc.net.au/mediaw
Our goal is for every household and business to have access to broadband with a download data rate of between 25 and 100 megabits per second by late 2016 and between 50 and 100 megabits per second by 2019. Downloads average less than five megabits per second at present.
Required funding $29.5 billion
This is the promise and they can't possibly live up to it.
What do the LNP supporters think about this � I see them blaming the ALP and yet they haven't even acknowledge that the now pm royally screwed the country.
Our goal is for every household and business to have access to broadband with a download data rate of between 25 and 100 megabits per second by late 2016 and between 50 and 100 megabits per second by 2019. Downloads average less than five megabits per second at present.
Required funding $29.5 billion
Malcolm Turnbull the useless oxygen thief fizzy scumbag lowered the targets and still missed.
Now its up-to-25mbits to all by 2016 (4 drop outs need not matter, its working fine), and 56 billion dollars in the red.
I too say we don't waste money on fibre that will sit in the ground for the next 60 years without needing to be touched;
Fibre will be used extensivly in all areas. The life of fibre networks is in the range of 60 yrs, but the demand outstrips the capabilities, and the networks are abandoned in place.
This is what should have happened with the copper network.
rather we invest less money into FTTN and HFC which will be replaced with fibre anyway in 10-15 years?
1. Investing money in FTTN has proven not to be an investment. It will not return a profit before it is required to be replaced. When Labour and Nats suggested a FTTN network, that was in the last years of viability of this type of network, which would have an operational life of ~10 yrs.
2. The Govt has stated there are no upgrades planned. With FTTN, an 'upgrade' is a replacement of the entire network. With HFC, there are some (expensive) upgrades available, but an FTTP upgrade is also a complete replacement of the network. ie Rebuild the NBN.
3. FTTP has already been shown to be profitable and improve the economy.
4. IF there is a 'clean' network port in every home, services that do not even exist now (and those that depend on dialup) can be developed nation wide. These services do not exist now, and often cannot be envisioned.
For a company to push them now would be like staffing a ski lift in summer. No business, and few could imagine the transformation comming.
The question is not can we afford FTTP now, but can the economy stand not installing it.
According to LNP, it is just an enetertainment network. This has been repeated by many ministers now, including our 'Science and Innovation' minister. This clearly demonstrates that lack of vision.
Labour have said that NBN is a network over which improved services can be delivered.
Clearly shows the difference in the ability to see beyond the next election.
Who still haven't acknowledged the cost and time blow outs.
The LNP promised 29.5 billion for 25mbs by 2016 � it's been linked to before and I'll do it again:
Fifield has stated that it is on time and under budget.
And he said it with a straight face!. It was an Oscar winning performance.
Fifield has stated that it is on time and under budget.
And he said it with a straight face!. It was an Oscar winning performance.
the promise was actually "by the end of our first term" according to Tony's speech
their first term is over, they are only in "caretaker mode"
FAIL
interesting liberal voters support it even more!! dont tell GMZ or kingy though
fraudband
A missed opportunity for someone to publicly remind Nash of that coinage while Malcolm was on stage.
According to LNP, it is just an enetertainment network. This has been repeated by many ministers now, including our 'Science and Innovation' minister. This clearly demonstrates that lack of vision.
True, but they have to push the lowest common denominator capability because that justifies their MTM build . If they fool everyone that is all that is needed then they did it right � winners!! What fools!!
interesting liberal voters support it even more!! dont tell GMZ or kingy though
The question ...
"Based on what you've heard, do you support or oppose the National Broadband Network (NBN), and will it influence your vote at the upcoming federal election?"
... allows people who support the MTM version of the NBN to answer "yes". Pretty meaningless really imo.
Fifield has stated that it is on time and under budget.
And he said it with a straight face!. It was an Oscar winning performance.
And Telstra said they are $3B short on the Turnbull's renegotiated Agreement because of the FTTN MTM delay to start and the failure to launch where they have started. So how can the MTM build possibly be on time and on budget? Fifield and Turnbull are simply telling lies.
Not only are there major problems getting customers connected (lost revenue and unnecessary costs) the network performance is poor and unreliable with customers claiming they would have been better off staying with ADSL. Onlookers are declining to connect at all less select a higher level plan so less revenue again.
Customers are also recognising they have to pay for 100/50 to get even half that speed and are left feeling ripped of (quite rightly) as FTTP customers who pay for 100/40 get pretty much what they pay for.
MTM version of the NBN to answer "yes". Pretty meaningless really imo.
The meaning of NBN has been hijacked by The Liberals Fraudband Branding There is no national left in it, there is no Broad left in it (just a dribble of bytes And it is not a network any more, it's just a collection of cobbled together bits and pieces. that maybe work some of the time every 24 hours.
If you live in Melbourne you might find this interesting
http://networkeds
4ever fraudband
NBN costs have blown out to $56 billion. Turnbull�s NBN has taken twice as long and double the cost to deliver half the speed promised. Yet, as the AFP raid last week makes clear, or its inspection of Peter Young's phone records, the Turnbull government is quick to invoke national security law to deal with the political embarrassment of being held accountable.
If the neoliberal Liberal Prime Minister's visit to Corangamite will do little to assuage voters' real concerns, let alone ease their suffering, his NBN and his government's approach to whistle-blowers will do even less for their peace of mind.
Does one deduce Mr Young is the whistleblower? Not seen that on the NBN Raid thread as yet....
Wonder if Mr Turnbull and Mr Fifield will face similar scrutiny as to why their nbn MTM is "...taking twice as long, double the cost and delivering half the speed promised..."
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Spot on as someone said earlier (sorry cannot find the post).
Because private spending on Australia's telecoms is so fantastic...
Of those 499, it added, 416 towers �are in Liberal and Nationals� electorates�.
Derp
There is no differentiation between NBN and nbn MTM in that poll as far as I can see, so before Kingy and Zealot get started with the "nbn" in the url there they should contain their mis-placed excitement and spare us all the usual carry on.
Does one deduce Mr Young is the whistleblower?
No, at least not with regard to NBN. Dr Young spoke publicly about another matter: http://www.smh.com.au/federal
http://networkedsociety.uni
Thanks Mark. Looks like it will be very interesting. Will be interesting if any media outlet bothers to attend...any online access to it, live or otherwise? Should be video recorded at least for distribution somehow.
Must say it must be absolutely painful for Quigley to watch the disaster evolving, particularly with current MTM rollout failures knowing what could have been.
The issue is that the LNP will not own up to theirs.
The LNP set the mistakes in concrete when they privatised Telstra.
Howard was rolling in money but what could he do once he'd flogged off Telstra? He sure as hell wasn't going to overbuild their network or buy it back. He couldn't (and didn't) allow Telstra to roll out FTTN and raise retail prices and kill competition completely. He well and truly painted us into a corner.
For all the things I've said about Conroy, his NBNCo and FTTP was a real game changer. The Coalition would never have had the cojones to do it. They still haven't.
Election 2016: iSentia analysis shows NBN raids, asylum seekers and leadership dominated the media
Thanks Mal/Fifield!
This clearly explains why Abbott failed and now Turnbull � votes first=handouts, and real, valuable, productive infrastructure like NBN which take more than one electoral cycle are incidental...unless its roads you can pork barrel with......
In hindsight it's so obvious now. In 1996, Howard and his Comm Minister Coonan were not the visionaries that were needed to appreciate the potential. Besides they probably had the puppet master keen on protecting the HFC being rolled out.
Australia has been, and continues to be, a cash cow to be milked for all it's worth. These monied interests spend big on a certain party to ensure that Australia continues to be held in this place.
It's appalling, but not surprising, to me that politicians [and others behind the scenes] have insufficient pride in Australia to rise above this kind of sycophancy.
This is demonstrated in the utter determination to keep Australia locked out of a viable and modern comms system so that the legacy system can continue to be squeezed of every drop of money it can yield. What we've seen is not stumbling and bumbling around, but a vicious campaign to ensure that profits come ahead of national benefits.
I've "leaked" a post far below from Delimiter that is the sort of thing that the Federal Oppositions should be hammering both the Federal Government and NBN Co on for allowing this to happen and attacking back at the crap that is being published about the speed tier take-up.
Shorten has got some some guts and demonstrated leadership skills to call Trump "barking mad". So how come he and his team keep on wimping out on full frontal attacks on some of the "barking mad" NBN/MTM/Broadband opinions in the media?
Likewise with Renai LeMay's
the columnist appears to have made a number of basic factual errors in his article.
is again a wimpish response to this fellow Journalist's particular opinion.
It's though there is an unwritten rule to go easy on fellow/competitor so called media writers/columnists/journalists, and only Politician's are fair game. "Journalists" going too easy on each other smacks of self censorship.
A commenter on Delimiter writes
I have a response to Terry MCcrann, Matthew and anyone else who trots out that crap about people who choose lower speeds.
I am in a FTTP area from leftover Labor contracts. Yesterday I went to the Telstra business centre to discuss a time for the box to be put on the inside of my house. I had already looked in the Telstra docs and NOT ONE MENTION ABOUT SPEEDS. Then the guy at the centre DID NOT WANT TO GIVE ME A SPEED EITHER. I pressed him � I said which speed am I on? He was like a fortune cookie. He said you get twice what you have now. No, I said, give me a choice of speeds. �I can�t guarantee a speed�. Blah blah.
In other words, ISPs in Australia do everything possible, fair or foul, to leave you with the lowest speed option because they know that they are overselling. This is the real world. This is how it works. I know because I saw it happen yesterday when I spoke to a Telstra official. Matthew, McCrann et al have no bloody idea what the hell they are talking about.
Shorten has got some some guts and demonstrated leadership skills to call Trump "barking mad".
On the contrary, this says to me that Shorten is a part of the system that wants to keep things as they are.
This sort of anti-Trump rhetoric has been said by all sorts of people around the word who want to maintain an elitist oligarchy. The media runs with it too. With Shorten also saying this, it ties in very well with the Wikileak's report from Snowden some years ago about Shorten. And no, I don't support Trump, but I have been watching the FUD issued about him for many months in the US.
Shorten has got some some guts and demonstrated leadership skills to call Trump "barking mad".
This is the bloody useless MSM again. Shorten didn't call Trump "barking mad". He said some of Trump's ideas are "barking mad". The idea Trump can get Mexico to pay for a wall along their US border is clearly "barking mad". Shorten is right.
A commenter on Delimiter writes ... etc
Are there any statistics from non-Telstra RSPs that show the breakdown for their customers? That would allow us to see if and by how much Telstra is skewing the numbers.
Are there any statistics from non-Telstra RSPs that show the breakdown for their customers?
Someone here has extracted them by subtracting the Telstra stats from the overall stats � it's probably posted in /forum-replies.cfm?t=2519852.
http://www.itwire.com/opinio
This is exactly what I tell people who think john was a good pm.
All he did was flog off government assets and hand out cash to keep him in power instead of investing much needed money into needed upgrades.
My uncle lives around Exeter and since about 1998 (About the time Telstra was getting flogged off to the private sector) there has been fibre optics in the ground because at the time, telstra was upgrading to fibre optics, but than John came in with a wrecking ball and that all ended than Telstra built an adsl exchange down the road a few years later.
If John didn't flog off telstra, we could have been nearly entirely fibre optic by now,, but nope, John had other ideas and now we're all stuck in this mess.
The Federal Coalition does not need any more bad news from it's MTM Strategic Partner in the next 5 weeks.
Double trouble for the real-life experiences of the Federal Coalition's MTM policy for a new FTTN customer over in a sister NBN thread tonight. 100m from the node on the 100/40 speed tier and reporting worse than ADSL2+ download speeds during peak hour tonight.
now that i am home again my speedtests is coming in at 11.95mb download and 33.34mb upload. really dont know how it can go from so good to so bad :/ like worse than my adsl that i had which was 15mb downloads. anyone here having some issues with iinet or any suggestions for me to sort this? i am only 100m from the node the house is only 6years old....
Over in the NBN Campbelltown (NSW) thread the locals are scratching their head at the alleged fantastic design skills of NBN Co and wondering how the Federal Coalition could be spending so many $B on their nbn and still be dicking around with getting the right amount of backhaul to alive RFS areas.
According to iinet the whole of 2CBT is congested and there is no more cvc available. They are waiting on nbn to lay more fibre backhaul to 2CBT so it may be a long wait.
Are there any statistics from non-Telstra RSPs that show the breakdown for their customers? That would allow us to see if and by how much Telstra is skewing the numbers.
The NBN Wholesale Market Indicators Report gives the AVC breakdown as of 31/03/2016, through a number of categories.
https://www.accc.
While it is limited to the top 4 in each category with position 5 being "Other Access Seekers" it is detailed enough to highlight Telstras effect on the overall numbers.
EDIT: + 2nd edit to correct values
% Breakdown per download AVC for all providers, then � (All providers excluding Telstra in brackets) � Telstra Only
- 12 = 30.8 � (36.7) � 24.8
- 25 = 52.0 � (40.6) � 63.8
- 50 = 4.1 � (5.5) � 2.6
- 100 = 13.1 � (17.2) � 8.9
- 250 = 0.0044 � (0.0076) � 0.0011
- 500 = 0.0003 � (0.0006) � 0
- 1000 = 0.0024 � (0.0037) � 0.0011
and reporting worse than ADSL2+ download speeds
Malcolm called... He said you need to sprinkle more magic dust on your modem. Or RTFM, or something...
/s
This is why we have stories about the tortoise and the hare in kindergarten, so we know to do things properly at a constant rate, and not rush out half-baked rubbish and stop to pat yourself on the back every 5 min's over how clever and fast you are.
Kingforce et al take note.
"There was criticism of the raids but it quickly just brought the issue of the NBN back up, timed with the Telstra outages that fed into it a bit," he said.
"It was clearly a negative for the government."
If it (nbn) wasn't an election issue 60 hours ago, IT SURE IS NOW!!
The Australian Federal Police investigation of leaks on the progress of the National Broadband Network led to a surge in mentions about the NBN, making it the biggest issue of the week.
The raids, of the Melbourne office of former communications minister Stephen Conroy and the home of a Labor staffer, were greeted with outrage by Labor.
The publicity did greater damage to the government, according to iSentia group communications manager Patrick Baume.
"There was criticism of the raids but it quickly just brought the issue of the NBN back up, timed with the Telstra outages that fed into it a bit," he said.
"It was clearly a negative for the government."
If it (nbn) wasn't an election issue 60 hours ago, IT SURE IS NOW!!
I note the Treasurer's debate at Press Club today Bowen in his opening speech section mentioned NBN first in a list of key issues.... He did an excellent job I might add.
Had to laugh heaps when Morrison after continually interjecting Bowen answers etc copped some back and said "... I wouldn't interrupt you..." or words to that effect. 'Mr Bullyman' can't help himself..... he continued to do it...
While it is limited to the top 4 in each category with position 5 being "Other Access Seekers" it is detailed enough to highlight Telstras effect on the overall numbers.
Thanks. Not overly distorting imo.
Not overly distorting imo.
Had some incorrect percentages � now fixed.
Not sure I agree with your conclusion.
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