positive independent endorsement of the government's NBN strategy.
Piss weak endorsement from a consultancy hired to provide a specific conclusion.
Hardly independent, especially given the constraints upon the study.
Also not commissioned by the ACCC as I understand it, despite the AFRs implication, it formed part of NBNCo's request for variation.
Good to see quality journalism in action, shame it's so rare at the moment as this certainly isn't.
Piss weak endorsement from a consultancy hired to provide a specific conclusion.
The fact that they could hardly find anything not to endorse is a giveaway.
last vestiges of copper is a scary thought..
my question is how many pairs and what is the speed rated distance past 100 meters,,
Good to see quality journalism in action, shame it's so rare at the moment as this certainly isn't.
For a Business oriented publication, that article has a distinct lack of Business Analysis content. It's highly political. Even Delimiter commenters can come up with more worthwhile comments in a sentence that the AFR headline clearly designed to magnify the likely intent of the whole article in appearing to endorse the nbn strategy. When the report is clearly limited in scope to the design and assumes that states the strategy that is projected in the SOE is set in concrete and is not something that the report is reviewing for it being a prudent and efficient strategy.
The headline is so misleading as to appear to endorse the nbn strategy. Shame Fairfax shame.
�prudent and efficient�
When looking at the next four or five years and no further.
Add another 4 years and it looks very different. Add 10 years and MTMco should be put down.
I have tried to quote a portion of this however apparently I am quoting too much...for whatever reason no attempt to lessen it works
"After a few calls trying to get a clear answer I was advised there is a short fault within the copper preventing me from getting sync and the job is now being assigned to the copper workflow team for assessment before it gets escalated to the copper repair team."
A bloody nbn� copper workflow team and a nbn� copper repair team. The MTM is so flapping sad it's not funny.
A bloody nbn� copper workflow team and a nbn� copper repair team. The MTM is so flapping sad it's not funny.
Talking about funny,
Q: How many teams does it take to fix some faulty copper?
A: None if you just get offered or left with no choice but to use Satellite Broadband +/or mobile voice/data instead.
In support of my statement ...from NBN Cannington thread
whrl.pl/ReDnf1
I have tried to quote a portion of this however apparently I am quoting too much...for whatever reason no attempt to lessen it works
This is appearing to be common around the country. There are significant parts of the St Mary's build in South Australia having the same issue. Its RFS. RSP's are assigning install dates, the dates come and go and are rebooked based on the shortfall.
The RFS numbers are seriously cooked.
The RFS numbers are seriously cooked.
And as we saw today, there is a concerted effort to conceal them from the public underway.
Bring it on. The more consultants reports released the more focus on the NBN/MTM.
http://www.computerworld.co
From your link
When preparing the analysis, the terms of reference given to Analysys Mason meant that it didn�t assess whether the switch from an FTTP-only model to the MTM model was a wise decision.
If NBN really wants to recoup its costs, why not simply add say a $10 per month infrastructure charge to everyones plans.
900,000 current users x $10 per month = $9 million dollars recovered in just 1 month
If NBN really wants to recoup its costs, why not simply add say a $10 per month infrastructure charge to everyones plans.
900,000 current users x $10 per month = $9 million dollars recovered in just 1 month
With the substandard service they are providing i really doubt it. People would be extremely pissed and they would try to go to lower tier plans hence the money growth would not really get any better, infact could even get worse. Except for the fact they wanted this to happen to please their bosses probably means they win either way.
God damn politicial ideologies.
EDIT: Completely forgot that they also aren't responsible for pricing like xoxide0 said.
If NBN really wants to recoup its costs, why not simply add say a $10 per month infrastructure charge to everyones plans.
NBN is the wholesaler who owns the network. They don't sell plans.
They make their money by selling access/bandwidth to retail service providers.
They don't sell plans.
no but they could charge line rental like telstra wholesale
no but they could charge line rental like telstra wholesale
How can they charge line rental when they don't sell lines.
FTTN
Why hasn't anybody thought of that. You should definitely write to your local MP and tell them your idea for saving the NBN.
poor attempt at sarcasm
MT � Hitler
NBN � German Generals � "Following orders"
Don't know who I dislike the most.
MT � Mr Broadband, Mr Copper, Mr Harbourside Mansion, Mr Virtually Invented the Internet.
Better known as FIZZA
That's who you should dislike the most.
no but they could charge line rental like telstra wholesale
Bundling data and voice has the same effect.
Making your post relevant to NBN and on topic...there is so much policy failure to see with FTTN MTM...twitter or no twitter...
Zealot is worried very very worried by the looks of it.
With the refusal of NBN Co or it's board or Shareholders to demand the removal of it's Executive General Manager Corporate Affairs for what appears to be clear and repeated breaches of the NBN Co Code of Conduct and Social Media Policy in her twitter posts, when discussing the Federal Coalition NBN/MTM policy and plans, are we seeing something bigger at play here when it comes to the IPA and their repeated calls for Free Speech and the below calls by the IPA's Executive Director John Roskam for public opinion and not the law courts to decide the rights of free speech (and the right to be a bigot)?
Is it possible that Karina is being used as a Proxy in the section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act "wars"?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
Noting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roskam
He has run for Liberal Party preselection � and missed out � "several times".
He has also held positions as Chief of Staff to Dr David Kemp, the Federal Minister for Employment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs, as Senior Advisor to Don Hayward, Victorian Minister for Education in the first Kennett Government
http://www.aijac.org.au/news/article/head-to-head-1
11. What steps would your government take to improve racial hatred laws and improve legal protections against racial hatred? In your view does section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act merit amendment or improvement?
COALITION
The Coalition Government will not be supporting any changes to section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act at this time.
The Coalition recognises the diverse range of community views on section 18C. We are committed to act in a manner which promotes social cohesion, not disunity.
The Coalition believes in an Australia where everyone is free to speak their mind, in which rights are accompanied by responsibilities, in which there is absolutely no place for racism.
The Coalition strongly condemns those who attempt to diminish our freedoms in Australia and incite violence and hatred within our community.
Only At this time. Inferring they will likely have another go at changing 18C in the future
The irony is that I would assume that Karina as the ?Executive General Manager Corporate Affairs at nbn Australia probably holds that position or equivalent level.
http://www.afr.com/leadershi
defamation lawyer Justin Quill, who has acted for News Corp columnist Andrew Bolt among others.
Institute of Public Affairs executive director John Roskam said the increasing offence taken by people on social media and the rise of defamation cases threatened the free speech of independent brokers, the media and even business.
"Is every broker assessment, Facebook comment, and social media post to be subject to what the lawyers think. It would be sad if the faux outrage that dominates the political landscape is now to become de rigueur in commercial relationships. Public opinion should decide these controversies � not the law courts," he said.
Mr Quill said simply adding the caveat "these views are my own" to your Twitter account � which Mr Edward's does not have � is not a shield because the court would look to a range of factors, such as the fact Mr Edwards is head of corporate communications, tweeting about the ANZ's views and the CEO Shayne Elliott has "liked" the tweet.
Is it possible that Karina is being used as a Proxy in the section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act "wars"?
Anything is possible with this lot really.
Did she block you after you replied to her on Twitter
I'm not sure, I only noticed it after the tweet.
So our friendly neighbours over in New Zealand have signed up with Nokia to start adding GPON to their FTTH rollout.
'Stralia 25mbps by 20something
Q: How many teams does it take to fix some faulty copper?
My mum has been without phone and internet at home for ~10 months now. She got her 7th Telstra tech out last Saturday. This guy, whilst not able to fix anything, was able to shed some light on the real issue.
He was on site for ~3hrs. 45min was checking the house wiring (which is fine as I personally ran Cat 6a throughout the house just over a year ago, from the freshly installed central splitter). As he was about to leave mum suggested he check the lines up the street as some neighbours have been having troubles as well.
2hrs 15min later he came back and had this to say:
"Sorry but there's nothing I can do about it. I can see where the copper has been spliced and re-spliced, to try and fix the problems. But the copper lines have completely degraded, the only way to fix it is run fresh lines. Don't expect Telstra to do that."
Her house is finally back on the NBN map, and an RSP she rang said according to their data that street is slated for FTTN (even though they are literally 500m from 2 greenfield estates with FTTP). Good luck to NBN trying to get FTTN working there.
'Stralia 25mbps by 20something
But as our Dear Leader has said � " We are flinging wide the doors of opportunity ".
"Sorry but there's nothing I can do about it. I can see where the copper has been spliced and re-spliced, to try and fix the problems. But the copper lines have completely degraded, the only way to fix it is run fresh lines. Don't expect Telstra to do that."
Her house is finally back on the NBN map, and an RSP she rang said according to their data that street is slated for FTTN (even though they are literally 500m from 2 greenfield estates with FTTP). Good luck to NBN trying to get FTTN working there.
See far below for what the NBNCo revised SAU proposal has in store for lines requiring remediation. Which for Malpractis's Mum's street situation, put's NBN Co in the position of having to explain whether, when, and how long it is going to take to replace the copper.
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
copper was not being used to replace degraded Telstra copper, rather was being used to connect Telstra�s distribution pillars to NBN nodes.
So unless Telstra is going to be replacing the degraded Telstra copper (as opposed to the spare copper NBNCo purchased), so that NBNCo can claim that NBNCo is not replacing the degraded copper, is NBN Co going to just give up on the Copper in the street's like those of Malpractis mother?
Or is NBN Co going to replace the copper with Fibre, HFC, or not replace the degraded copper at all, and have the street go onto Fixed Wireless, Satellite, or just leave them with Non NBN Co Mobile Broadband, or possibly a Commercial point to point wireless solution?
1A.4.5 Remediation
If the Line rate at the UNI used to serve a Premises located in the footprint of the NBN Co FTTB Network or NBN Co FTTN Network is not capable of achieving the PIR Objective then:
NBN Co may conduct Remediation in respect of the Premises; and until Remediation for the Premises is completed, the downlink Line rate and uplink Line rate at the UNI used to serve the Premises may be significantly less than the downlink PIR and uplink PIR of the bandwidth profile ordered by the Access Seeker in respect of the Premises.
"We consider the rollout plans to be commercially sensitive, we don't want to have to publish them any more" � nbn
http://www.itnews.com.au/new
2hrs 15min later he came back and had this to say:
"Sorry but there's nothing I can do about it. I can see where the copper has been spliced and re-spliced, to try and fix the problems. But the copper lines have completely degraded, the only way to fix it is run fresh lines. Don't expect Telstra to do that."
Her house is finally back on the NBN map, and an RSP she rang said according to their data that street is slated for FTTN (even though they are literally 500m from 2 greenfield estates with FTTP). Good luck to NBN trying to get FTTN working there.
Sounds like a similar situation to my brother's area. He has had nothing but trouble with his phone & ADSL due to the poor condition of the copper. According to the NBN maps his area (slated for FTTN) went into build preparation status towards the end of last year, and according to the Telstra Wholesale sheet it won't be ready for service until September 2017! That doesn't make any sense to me at all unless they are planning to either completely replace the copper, or switch to FTTP.
Regardless, in both of these situations both areas should be switched to a full FTTP rollout. It makes no sense at all to replace the copper, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did with Mr copper still running things.
My mum has been without phone and internet at home for ~10 months now. She got her 7th Telstra tech out last Saturday
Unfortunately, as things stand, Telstra are reluctant to do anything to rectify copper as they will have to pay for it. Much better to wait until FTTN is deployed because they they will be paid to fix it!
1A.4.5 Remediation
If the Line rate at the UNI used to serve a Premises located in the footprint of the NBN Co FTTB Network or NBN Co FTTN Network is not capable of achieving the PIR Objective then:
NBN Co may conduct Remediation in respect of the Premises; and until Remediation for the Premises is completed, the downlink Line rate and uplink Line rate at the UNI used to serve the Premises may be significantly less than the downlink PIR and uplink PIR of the bandwidth profile ordered by the Access Seeker in respect of the Premises.
shakes head.
Access Seeker = the RSP? If so they RSP is bring charged full cvc and avc rates even if it cannot be delivered. There is no incentive to fix teh lines by nbn� as they are still getting paid full rate
Can you imagine the uproar if Colesworthdi put a sign on their milk fridge saying
"we are sorry, but our milk suppliers equipment is faulty and not delivering the required amount of milk into the containers, and until it is fixed which should be in a month we have had to instigate an emergency plan.
As we are being charged for "full measure" on every container we have no option but to charge you full price even if your 1 litre container only has 25 ml of milk in it. To avoid fights, a staff member will pick the container for you and you must pay for it before it is handed to you"
That in effect is exactly what nbn� are proposing, in some regards it is worse as they are giving no assurance that the low CIR will actually be fixed
Unfortunately, as things stand, Telstra are reluctant to do anything to rectify copper as they will have to pay for it. Much better to wait until FTTN is deployed because they they will be paid to fix it!
more like "they MAY be paid to fix it" there is no incentive for nbn� to fix a line if it can sync even it 1/0.0001 Mbps as they still get paid full avc and cvc for that connection at the purchased rate
"We consider the rollout plans are commercially sensitive, we don't want to have to publish them any more" � nbn
Personally politically embarrassing for the prime minister is not the same as being commercially sensitive.
more like "they MAY be paid to fix it" there is no incentive for nbn� to fix a line if it can sync even it 1/0.0001 Mbps
And as far as I am aware there is no mechanism to force nbnco to fix a line if they decide not to do so.
(Happy to be corrected on that, but I'd like linked evidence)
That in effect is exactly what nbn� are proposing, in some regards it is worse as they are giving no assurance that the low CIR will actually be fixed
Note the assurances that NBN Co provides in it's Supporting Submission to the ACCC � Variation to the NBN Co Special Access Undertaking 27 May 2016. Assurances that raises the possibility that to minimise the number of premise subject to remediation, NBNCo's will risk manage this by taking the easy option for themselves and not even attempt to remediate.
80. In this context, nbn notes that it has aligned interests with access seekers in minimising the number of Premises subject to Remediation and the amount of time taken to complete the necessary actions.
That in effect is exactly what nbn� are proposing, in some regards it is worse as they are giving no assurance that the low CIR will actually be fixed
Sorry to pick this bit out but ... what CIR? All I've seen are PIRs for AVCs. Has the NBNCo specified CIRs as well and if so what are they? I'm just interested to know.
Sorry to pick this bit out but ... what CIR? All I've seen are PIRs for AVCs. Has the NBNCo specified CIRs as well and if so what are they? I'm just interested to know
I think D&C made a typo and got his CIR mixed up with his PIR.
My mum has been without phone and internet at home for ~10 months now.
Why is it that electricity can be restored within a few hours of an outage, but Telstra can get away with not fixing phone lines for months ? Is the nbn/mtm going to have stricter requirements ?
Why is it that electricity can be restored within a few hours of an outage, but Telstra can get away with not fixing phone lines for months ?
Legally they can. The Universal Service Obligation agreement really has quite a few loopholes that do allow Telstra to get away with this.
. beaten by Rocky :)
I think D&C made a typo and got his CIR mixed up with his PIR.
That's a shame. There must be a CIR below which the NBNCo is forced to acknowledge a fault and fix it. I've been looking for it for years. I hoped D&C had found it.
This is going to be a fun read from Mark Gregory today.
To replace FTTN with FTTdp, a high density implementation of FTTdp, there would be a need to remove the FTTN systems completely and to rollout fibre from the nodes to within no more than 80 metres from premises, which for most premises means to the telephone pits found in the street.
The big question is whether Labor is confident enough to convince the public that spending a little bit extra in the short-term is well worth the effort.
To replace the Federal Coalition with the current Federal Oppositions, and a less duncety implementation of FTTX, there would be a need to remove the FTTX dunces completely from further damaging the nation, or causing such mistrust in the political system. Best to roll the dunces and the nodes away, to no less than 1000km from all Australian premises (e.g Nauru), which for most premises and the majority of Australians, means to the offshore rubbish tip for recycling, and as a deterrent to anyone thinking of trying anything like this ever again, in using Australia's digital and economic future as a plaything to get what they selfishly want.
I think D&C made a typo and got his CIR mixed up with his PIR.
yeah, I guess the brain started typing CIC, it has become so ingrained in anything MTM/nbn�
To replace FTTN with FTTdp, a high density implementation of FTTdp, there would be a need to remove the FTTN systems completely
Well we pretty much already knew there was no chance of upgrading FTTN to FTTP without ripping it all out.
Basically any of us in FTTN areas that are either completed or nearing completion are left with two options. Fork out thousands of dollars for our own FTTP connection or sell up and move. :(
To replace FTTN with FTTdp, a high density implementation of FTTdp, there would be a need to remove the FTTN systems completely
Finally we have proof that the "fttn can be easily upgraded" is a lie!
The headline is so misleading as to appear to endorse the nbn strategy. Shame Fairfax shame.
Is it any wonder that Fairfax newspapers are in such financial strife...who'd buy such rubbish to read partisan articles such as this. Rather than sack a multitude of journos to 'fix' the bottom line a well publicised and targetted weeding out of pathetic journalism and editorial ineptitude would bring readers..paying customers ....back.
Anyone else noticed a shift in Fairfax editorial discretion to the right since the NBN Raid...? Might be a reason they didn't get raided as well after printing more balanced articles....
Could have been an NBN discussion on-topic (maybe still one day for those lucky FTTH)
http://bbpmag.com/wordp
Long story short, new PON equipment �th the size of the original equipment (fits in 1RU standard chassis).
I'm not sure, I only noticed it after the tweet.
Probably why Twitter is going backwards...smart arses make wild tweets and, exerting their power, block those that are of contrary view to make it look like only favorable response come through. ...fairly meaningless ultimately..
What an embarrassing article. The analysis was only to determine whether the MTM is fit for implementing the government's constrained SoE. Indeed, the analysis is almost at pains NOT make a comparison with a FTTP network.
Love the link "independent" when it was commissioned by NBN
But that attack does not sit well with the views of the independent experts, the same independent experts relied upon by the NBN when the strategy was FTTP.
As once was the FTTP a thumbs up by the "independent" analysis
Trouble over in in the Campbelltown NSW NBN thread with 2 posters in the last few hours reporting loss of their copper phone and ADSL based internet services during the process of ordering and getting an NBN FTTN service.
whrl.pl/ReDo3a
now in the second month of Telstra pointing at NBN pointing at Telstra. Bottom line, the switch to NBN left them with no DSL connection at all and so far there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
whrl.pl/ReDpm3
Up until last night, they still had a phone and ADSL connection, but around 8PM they lost both phone and internet � called Telstra today only to be told that the connection was active on the 17th and they have no record of any issues (despite a case manager being assigned previously), so they have disconnected the phone line.
https://www.crikey.com.au/20
One of the defences NBN has used in arguing why leaked documents from the company are bad and the AFP should be allowed to raid Labor HQ is that the company is very transparent and publishes so much information on the state of the rollout. Not for much longer. The ACCC has released a change in NBN�s special access undertaking � the rules that govern the NBN rollout � that is supposed to allow it to roll out Turnbull�s �multi-technology mix� version, but also reduces the number of times the company will be required to report to the public.
NBN has justified this by using its long-running excuse for hiding information that is deemed �commercial-in-confidence�. Perhaps the plans will be the next ones to be leaked?
With nbn rollout plans now deemed to be CiC, how the flap is anyone looking to buy property meant to make informed decisions about the broadband infrastructure until the real NBN has been mostly rolled out in areas they are needing to buy in?
What odds on LNP making an announcement in response to Labor NBN Policy based on FTTdp and supported by yesterday's ACCC NBN SAU article � we are being primed IMO. Interesting Mark Gregory is probably being used as a wedge here as well.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
NBN Co�s adoption of a centralised GPON architecture is both efficient and prudent, as it
represents the best choice of architecture from a long-term cost-management perspective and
from a network scalability and flexibility perspective.
They are both, therefore, considered to be future-proof technologies. In terms of
deployment, GPON is currently the FTTP technology of choice for large operators in a number of
countries for offering ultra-fast broadband services to the residential segment
2012 FTTP report by the same company
2012 FTTP report by the same company
At least that 2012 report was not signed off on April 1.
sadly $10 + $30-35 in admin fees = $36,000,000 � 40,500,000. this would be barely a � of the country let alone 1/3 of 1 states or territories population, overlay sat maps for current sat tv based service with current service maps with he sat internet maps and you will see the true impliance of implication of a sat based internet service and it will more the 100,000 user prognosis back in the 1993/4 report later refuted by 2003/4 report into short term internet and long term internet solutions for people in the country and some parts of suburbia where the copper line length is to great to supply an adsl service..
and looking at the top hat deployment of the last 15-20 years this is nothing but the stop gap of extending the copper footprint, where fttp has been a base requirement install for the last 10 or so years, and the longer it is left the more it will cost in install, as the cost of copper replacement with more copper every 18-30 month's doesn't bode well for anyone..
install costs tabled in a report to parliament on install vs on the ground costs of install is always 2 different figures..
as for political games we are now in protection mode for min of 6 months since the election has been called..
Hi erfman, The reason I wrote this article was because Morrow told the Senate that no other company / country was doing FTTdp and NBN Co was leading the world in looking to rollout FTTdp. In fact, NBN Co is not leading the world and is trialling several different stand alone systems suitable for low density FTTdp. So in effect the FTTdp is of little or no consequence to the NBN debate as it is not scalable and the only benefit is the fibre running to the 300,000 premises identified to be in the low density rollout. The timing of the article with the SAU and Labor's possible options is coincidental.
Lol..
We say anything for money..
It's like they did a CTRL+F = FTTP
Replace with = FTTN
Charge NBN $3m
Lol..
We say anything for money..
Almost the same wording isn't it? Consultants creaming again...just change a word or two....
The timing of the article with the SAU and Labor's possible options is coincidental
Noted. However, I still expect your (good) article will be utilised (parts thereof) to support discussion anti FTTP when Labor announces its policy, which may well reference utilisation of FTTdp in particular circumstances....nothing new in that, though.
The facts don't seem to play an important part anymore....
Almost the same wording isn't it?
If both Rudd/Controy/Australia's and Turnbull/Abbott/Foxtel's NBN strategies got the prudent and efficient thumbs up from the exact same "independent experts", remind me again why team Abbott/Turnbull changed the NBN into the MTM and pretty much dumped the FTTP rollout?
2012 FTTP report by the same company
If you want a efficient and prudent document that will tell you what you want to see. Give Analysys Mason a call. We never fail to please. Especially if you splash a little extra cash. Don't wait. You know it makes sense.
Three word slogan � Efficient and Prudent.
Analysis Paralysis.
If you want a efficient and prudent document that will tell you what you want to see.
They have prefilled docs ready to go..
They have prefilled docs ready to go..
I hope NBN Co got a hefty discount from Analysys Mason for the 2016 report.
To anyone getting despondent that the Federal Coalition is most likely going to hold on at the 2 July Federal Election to continue with their current NBN/MTM policy for a while longer, this post might cheer you up a bit.
Particularly when drawing parallels with the NBN Co revised SAU "independent" consultants reports efficient and prudent endorsements for NBN Co. With talk of a backlash against the whole Liberal Party. It's a matter of trust. 4 and a half weeks to go.
In a potentially explosive development for the Baird Government, the Land and Environment Court has ordered it to provide documents about the role KPMG played in implementing the council amalgamation agenda.
Counsel for Strathfield Tim Robertson SC said documents delivered on Sunday revealed KPMG had been "intimately involved in the formulation of proposals and the report had been done in order to do the government's bidding."
"The lack of independence of KPMG has always been a central part of our case,"
The latest developments are politically damaging
evidence that it had acted to achieve a foregone conclusion and misled communities
There will be a backlash against the whole LIberal Party, not just the Baird government because this is a breach of trust. I come from a conservative place � Hunters Hill. I have never seen anger like this in conservative places."
It is sad that a cost benefit analysis over 10 years or so has not been produced ahead of the election comparing cost of maintaining copper in FTTN vs FTTdP vs FTTP. I know you might be able to find it if you dig deep but it should be out there. Shame Mark Gregory did not go down this path in his article.
There will be a backlash against the whole LIberal Party, not just the Baird government because this is a breach of trust. I come from a conservative place � Hunters Hill. I have never seen anger like this in conservative places."
Phg, it pales into insignificance when compared to Labor politicians stealing tens of millions off the public. There will be no backlash at all. Everyone wants to see Mehager and the like go down. i don't see the relevance to this thread
Phg, it pales into insignificance when compared to Labor politicians stealing tens of millions off the public. There will be no backlash at all.
pardon, where is your evidence to support your claim.
First I have heard of it
So in effect the FTTdp is of little or no consequence to the NBN debate as it is not scalable and the only benefit is the fibre running to the 300,000 premises identified to be in the low density rollout. The timing of the article with the SAU and Labor's possible options is coincidental.
Firstly, a fantastic layman's explanation of FTTdp. So good I'll repeat it
FTTdp falls between the two approaches by getting the fibre to within no more than 80 metres from premises and the final connection into premises uses the existing copper telephone wires. Switch the copper with fibre and you effectively turn the FTTdp into FTTP. FTTdp that uses GPON (Gigabit Passive Optical Network) as the technology on the fibre can operate over distances of up to 20 kilometres making it similar to FTTP.
But ....
Are we sure the 300,000 is for the "low density" rollout?
The NBN consists of three zones � high, medium and low density. Currently premises in the high density areas will be connected to the NBN using either FTTP, FTTN or HFC. In the medium density areas NBN Co is using fixed wireless to connect premises to the NBN. In low density areas satellite
I was under the impression the 300,000 premises came from the Strategic Review (p18): FTTdp to complement the FTTN rollout in long-loop areas towards the end of the build and was an estimate of the number of premises in the FTTN footprint not going to get 25mbps. (I can't find the 300k premises reference in there now, bugger, but I recall it's in there somewhere). Or is it assumed those 300k properties are like DrD and have fallen out of the fixed line (and fixed wireless) footprint and onto Sat? Perhaps correctly, perhaps not, the impression I had is the SR assumed standard VDSL2, but those 300k were going to be dealt with by the magic of vectoring.
and have commenced a trial using FTTdp and DPUs with one to four ports
Is this true? Is the one test user trialing a 4 port ONT?
comparing cost of maintaining copper in FTTN vs FTTdP vs FTTP.
There is no CBA , that's why..
and Telstra has never released a good figure on how much they spent on maintaining the copper network.. If they even know
It's like they did a CTRL+F = FTTP
Replace with = FTTN
Charge NBN $3m
Another of the cost savings of FTTN. You don't just reuse the copper, you reuse the reports justifying it as well. /s
https://delimiter.com.au/201
�Fanbois�: NBN Co mocks critics after cancelling quarterly update
�With changes to the 3-year construction plan and the monthly RFS rollout plan, the information in the 1-year construction plan has become redundant,� the NBN company noted, adding that some of the information contained in its plans were also commercially sensitive.
A number of commentators noted the changes yesterday as the new SAU was published.
In response, the NBN company�s executive general manager of corporate affairs, Karina Keisler, mocked critics of the company.
�With FULL rollout soon in view & annual updates provided, the fanbois are calling for quarterly updates. Hell, why not weekly?! Daily?� the executive posted on Twitter.
opinion/analysis
It�s quite hard to believe that the management of the NBN company continues to allow Keisler to make these kind of vitriolic comments in public.
That should be a serious enough matter to give Keisler and her colleagues pause. It�s time for them to re-evaluate their communications strategy. Because the current approach is alienating journalists, the Opposition, and NBN customers alike. That�s precisely the opposite of what a corporate affairs function is supposed to achieve.
https://delimiter.com.au/20
that picture
I bet she says " No Fibre Hangers EVER !!! ".
Hi Tandem, NBN Co have indicated they will use FTTdp for areas that are not going to get fixed wireless (not enough premises in the area to justify a tower) and are relatively close to nodes (say 1-2 km). Possibly there are other scenarios but I'm not aware of them. Remember that the premises can be up to 20 km from nodes where there will be a termination for the FTTdp fibre but the cost of rolling fibre out to anywhere near 20km would be too high for FTTdp to be an option given NBN Co's requirement to use the cheapest technology.
NBN Co have indicated they will use FTTdp for areas that are not going to get fixed wireless
Where? They have discussed it, but nowhere is there policy to use it. And as far as we know, its only been trialled with 1 user.
it is my understanding that a functional FTTdp is currently just a concept � unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll". I would think that NBN plans to use it are very presumptive and more "pie in the sky".
I recall reading somewhere that:
1) nbnco was asked if they would deploy HFC prior to 30th June and they answered 'no'.
2) there are 'get out of HFC' clauses if nbnco have not deployed the technolgy
3) the election is on the 2nd July
That leaves 1st July as the only date when nbnco can release HFC, and force Labor into using HFC in their plan.
Anyone recall anything like this or am I pulling out of the proverbial?
That leaves 1st July as the only date when nbnco can release HFC, and force Labor into using HFC in their plan.
The HFC product launch is scheduled for 30th June � the question was raised whether that product launch would trigger the Telstra "It's your problem now, sucker!" clause which nbn� claimed it wouldn't. Whether that's because no customers would actually be connected on that date or whether only Optus areas will accept orders from that date or soon after I don't know.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
that picture
Very disappointed with Renai's comment ...
"I personally like Keisler. I�ve known her for a long time � dating back to her days at Vodafone � and I believe she is a consummate public affairs professional."
.... but not surprised that Renai has said this. His track record demonstrates that he seems to value staying in the good books of his network more than calling a spade a spade for his readers.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
I notice that when posters talk about Labor's NBN policy (I'm looking at you Kingee and GMZT) that the usual response is along the lines of "Labor has not released their NBN policy."
But Renai says that "I think it�s pretty clear at this point what Labor are going to announce as their NBN policy for the election."
Oh well if that's what Renai thinks as our expert NBN/MTM blogger journalist (sorry I was channelling Karina for a moment there) then I suppose Kingee and GMZT) and the rest of us can take it as gospel that this is Labor's NBN policy.
and have commenced a trial using FTTdp and DPUs with one to four ports
Is this true? Is the one test user trialing a 4 port ONT?
Do you mean NTD? I think you will find the DPUs with one to four ports are the hardware mounted in the pits.
I bet she says " No Fibre Hangers EVER !!! ".
The only fibre you get is the stuff coming out of her backside. Oh wait, we are already getting that. Its called the FTTN.
where is the video for the announcement ?
unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll". I would think that NBN plans to use it are very presumptive and more "pie in the sky".
You mean like D3.1 the saviour of HFC?
The HFC product launch is scheduled for 30th June � the question was raised whether that product launch would trigger the Telstra
Only areas I am aware which will NBN HFC RFS end of June are Optus HFC areas? If so this would not yet trigger the Telstra HFC takeover until the first Telstra NBN HFC area goes live (as early as July/August somewhere in SA or WA).
It's like they did a CTRL+F = FTTP
Replace with = FTTN
Don't forget also
CTRL+F = efficient and prudent
Replace with = prudent and efficient
Now it sounds like a completely different report!
"We consider the rollout plans to be commercially sensitive, we don't want to have to publish them any more" � nbn
That is pathetic. If this is gonna be more of their excuses in the future i will NEVER even think about voting a conservative party in my future thats for bloody sure. Corrupt idiots the lot of them. If its publicly funded there should be no god damn shadows covering the information. How did these idiots even get in? The moeny managers excuse? Goes to check national debt and see its higher by 20billion. Well so much for that excuse.
Karina Keisler should be fired. No ifs no buts she should be outright sacked. Any other workplace this would be an immediate sacking but not the NBN co. The failure of Australia. We are going to be mocked for generations to come and we will all suffer for it while 100 people laugh their way to retirement not caring about the responsiblity they should have had.
oh the contradiction...
even with fttdp installed in the cabinet.. they still need UPGRADE the cable to the premises though it doesn't guarantee a lifespan of 5 years in copper servicing the premises with th amount of buildings being built within my suburb, the plan of deploying fttn is plain idiotic given the d/a's didn't have the capacity to support basic residential telephone service nevermind adsl..
which could not support vdsl 4-5 years ago and still couldn't today..
i see fttn as a political stunt of ignorance rather planning for foreword thinking..
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Give it a rest. There are better things to do rather than get worked up over a personal Twitter account
Good to see GMZ is walking the talk today (only 4 hours to go).
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Ahh the good old days!
http://spacenews.com/nbn-of-
2nd satellite required
Wait no we don't need any said the master of the universe
Hi quadfan, it is important to dispel this myth. FTTdp is being rolled out today and it is available for high, medium and low density rollouts. The key here is that NBN Co's supplier does not appear to provide, Huawei does but is banned, so NBN Co is seeking alternatives from tiny companies in the USA.
... so NBN Co is seeking alternatives from tiny companies in the USA.
That sounds like it has risks.
FTTdp is being rolled out today and it is available for high, medium and low density rollouts. The key here is that NBN Co's supplier does not appear to provide, Huawei does but is banned, so NBN Co is seeking alternatives from tiny companies in the USA
Why are NBN Co locked to one supplier?
10 years from now some of the low lying fruit will be brought before a judge to answer questions about the debacle, but sadly Mr Fizza and Zigfreid will be retired somewhere in the good ol US of A living off tax-free Cayman dollars. There is no justice in this world: In a westernized modern economy, if you're rich you get to live a happy, carefree life. If you're poor you get to suffer depression and poison your body trying to achieve a less miserable state of mind. Anyway, enough of the rant.
Fauxband was supposed to be available in my area (Stirling WA) but it's June and still no indication of when the switch will be flicked. I've seen a lot of Telstra workers in the Karrinyup area, obviously preparing the network so they can cherry-puck the most profitable streets/zones. Like i've said previously, I don't expect anything until late in the year.
it is my understanding that a functional FTTdp is currently just a concept � unlike FTTP technology it is not something "ready to roll".
MG is right, there are FTTTdp products that are more than Vapourware. Even Alcatel Lucent have one: https://www.youtube.com/watch
I'm not aware of any 4 port ONT/NTD/DPU/Micronodes in commercial production (please feel free to correct me if/where I'm wrong here). IIRC there was a briefing given to the Senate of the products nbn� were trialing, and that included a slide of some small form factor reverse powered ONTs , but AFAIK they were all single port.
NBN Co have indicated they will use FTTdp for areas that are not going to get fixed wireless (not enough premises in the area to justify a tower) and are relatively close to nodes (say 1-2 km)
I would also like to know when and where this indication was given: Senate Estimates? I don't know for sure, but I think nbn� have been describing their 48port micronode deployments as FTTdp, when they are really FTTN for areas of sufficiently low density that they have less than 50 users within 1.2km of the node site, and who would otherwise be outside the FTTN footprint. If this is the case then it's a touch disingenuous to describe it as FTTdp.
Hi Tandem, you've identified how FTTdp can mean many things and generally NBN Co are not rolling out FTTdp variants that most would anticipate. Calling FTTN micronodes FTTdp is ridiculous � it is FTTN. FTTdp is generally associated with DPU in pits or on polls outside homes and G.Fast or some other technology into the home � e.g. FTTP. If VDSL2/vectoring is to be used then there is no reasonable requirement to get the fibre to the pit (or poll) and this is not what NBN Co is doing. I've complained about the creative use of the term by NBN Co but they've insisted that they can call what they're doing FTTdp. And there is a reference somewhere to the 1-2km using FTTdp in an article or possibly one of the leaked documents about the 1-4 port DPUs under investigation.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Give it a rest. There are better things to do rather than get worked up over a personal Twitter account
Be interesting to know the professional conduct requirements for the person of such stature in NBN? Perhaps she is precluded from having personal tweets or perhaps the policy states that she must clearly state that such tweets are not the view of NBN? Either way, there are many who would agree that her conduct is unbecoming of the office which she holds.
Be interesting to know the professional conduct requirements for the person of such stature in NBN?
See my extensive post linking into and analysing the Official NBN Code of Conduct and Social Media Policy the other morning.
whrl.pl/ReDnFz
http://www.
http://www.nbnco.com.
That I appear to be the only human in the whole world who appears to have bothered linking these 2 public documents to this issue is rather bemusing
Even Journalists like the one that wrote the below did not bother to go looking for them or omitted to write about them for some reason.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases
I agree, but commenting on work matters does confuse the issue. She should have been more professional and not commented at all.
See my extensive post linking into and analysing the Official NBN Code of Conduct and Social Media Policy the other morning.
Well as the old saying goes " Rules are there to be broken ". It looks like Karina and the other staff at NBN treat it like sorbent at Glastonbury.
https://twitter.com/karinake
karina keisler
?@karinakeisler
Ok folks I hear you. Importantly, the SAU relates to what we share with RSPs, not public reporting. That's different #nbn
I agree, but commenting on work matters does confuse the issue. She should have been more professional and not commented at all.
If an organisation has a Social Media Policy, then it doesn't matter if it's a personal social media account. They are still accountable for their actions. Lo and behold:
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
Ultimately, it's likely up to the employer whether their employee's conduct online fits their policies. Let's face it, KK is Morrow's golden child.
There are many case studies that discuss the consequences of an employee's behaviour on social media.
EDIT: Oops, just saw the linkages above.
Whether it's a personal Twitter account or not is irrelevant.
Do you have any idea the number of court cases, law suits and arrests over material appearing on personal social media accounts ?
Perhaps you'd like to sit down with the ABC and SBS for a minute, for starters, as well as with corporations in the US and Europe...
P.S. Does this mean the "leaker" at NBN Co could and should have just posted the leaks on their personal social media accounts, and then they'd have totally avoided being sacked/arrested/avoid ramifications of any Official Secrets Act ?
You can't have it both ways.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
it's a personal Twitter account and they can do whatever pleases
whats good for the goose, appears not to be good for the gander. MT stepping in again and upholding the rights of free speach for those under his employ, as long as its in agreement with him
I agree, but commenting on work matters does confuse the issue. She should have been more professional and not commented at all.
What makes you think it is just her personal Twitter account?
It clearly appears to be a work related twitter account from the wording she has put in the intro to her twitter name Corp Affairs @ nbn. It appears to be a BYOSMA (Bring your own Social Media Account).
https://twitter.com/karinakeisler
Corp Affairs @ nbn
Even if it is considered partly her personal Twitter account. Akin to a BYOD (phone/tablet/laptop) that is used both for both work and private purposes, the NBN Co Code of Conduct and the NBN Social Media Policy, both clearly cover how you act in a private capacity in relation to your commenting on your job, upholding the company values.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
see whrl.pl/ReDnFz for my earlier thread on this
http://www.nbnco.com.au/cont
(selected excerpts below)
When participating in social media other than on behalf of NBN Co, your legal obligations as an employee, consultant or contractor with NBN Co remain the same as they would be in other contexts of your life, even if you believe you are participating anonymously.
Should an employee, consultant or contractor choose to participate as a private citizen in social media, they should do so without damaging the reputation of or infringing the intellectual property rights of NBN Co, its employees, contractors, consultants, customers or suppliers. NBN Co may take reasonable and lawful steps in relation to any use of social media that is not authorised or in breach of this policy.
Employees, contractors or consultants can participate in social media that is unrelated to NBN Co or the NBN as any private citizen would without needing to reference their role at NBN Co. As with any publicly visible activity, employees of NBN Co should endeavour to conduct themselves in accordance with NBN Co�s values and in a manner that will not bring NBN Co into disrepute.
be polite to all people they interact with
If you are unclear about the terms of this policy or whether your actions would breach your obligations do not publish the content and seek advice from your manager or speak to one of the Digital Communication Managers at NBN Co. It is safer for you to exercise caution as you have sole responsibility for what you post and publish online to the global community.
not disparaging NBN Co or any of its employees, clients, business partners, suppliers or other associates, or make any statement which does, or is likely to, bring NBN Co or any of these parties into disrepute or ridicule or otherwise affect their reputations
? being mindful that any published content will probably remain in the public domain for many years
? being respectful to their audience
Breach of this Policy
Failure to comply with this policy may result in NBN Co exercising its rights under a contractor/consultancy agreement or taking disciplinary action against an employee under the Managing Performance and Behaviour Policy. This action may include limitation of access to computer, email and/or the internet, and in serious cases, may result in termination of employment or your engagement with NBN Co.
Well as the old saying goes " Rules are there to be broken ". It looks like Karina and the other staff at NBN treat it like sorbent at Glastonbury.
There is a big difference between 'rules are there to be broken' and 'challenging the norm'.
Have to say that since Abbott and his 'anything goes if it means power' approach, community standards have dropped significantly with integrity, honesty and professionalism becoming dirty words almost to the point of anarchy. Trump is perfecting it.
Turnbull has clearly demonstrated that with NBN � lies, deception and extreme lengths to ensure public get no or distorted information ie. no accountability possible. That has permeated to NBN Co clearly with Morrow and KK.
Often we hear from the Turnbull's and Abbott's that indigenous communities need to get their elders to show the way to rectify the disaster happening to younger generations. Shame they don't put that to work in Australian society. The farce we have seen with NBN would simply not occur.
In a statement on Sunday, SBS managing director Michael Ebeid and director of sport Ken Shipp said the "inappropriate and disrespectful" comments had caused Mr McIntyre's "on-air position at SBS to become untenable".
"Mr McIntyre's actions have breached the SBS Code of Conduct and social media policy and as a result, SBS has taken decisive action to terminate Mr McIntyre's position at SBS, with immediate effect," the statement said.
What's makes Karina Keisler's continuing tenure at NBNCo so tenable?
?@karinakeisler
Ok folks I hear you. Importantly, the SAU relates to what we share with RSPs, not public reporting. That's different #nbn
Wow!! took how long to work out an escape route...??? That should have been an immediate response.
Wonder who kicked her butt....
Failure to comply with this policy may result in NBN Co exercising its rights under a contractor/consultancy agreement or taking disciplinary action against an employee under the Managing Performance and Behaviour Policy.
It's on Hansard that Morrow has had discussions with her about her tweeting...
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