NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft"
Now that is quite amusing...I would love to see them place a value on that.
NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft".
Then the AFP has no jurisdiction to investigate.
http://www.afp.gov.au/contact/report-a-crime
Intellectual Property - Refer to IP Australia at www.ipaustralia.gov.au for advice.
edit � I'm skeptical of the whole "AFP raid has nothing to do with the Govt" excuse.
Commonwealth crimes which the AFP investigates
The AFP carefully considers all reports of Commonwealth crimes, however we do not have the resources to investigate every reported crime. We have to ensure we allocate our resources to the crimes which have the greatest impact to Australian society.
Some leaks from NBNco that demonstrate the MtM is costing more, and taking longer would not (IMO) have a great impact to Australian Society, it really only impacts the person responsible for the MtM � Mr Turnbull.
edit also see:
http://www.afp.gov.au/about-
Case Categorisation and Prioritisation Model
How the CCPM is used
In determining which matters to prioritise, the AFP uses the Case Categorisation and Prioritisation Model (CCPM) to consider major elements of an operation.
These include:
* incident type and the impact of the matter on Australian society
* the importance of the matter to both the client and the AFP in terms of the roles assigned to them by Government and Ministerial direction
* the resources required by the AFP to undertake the matter
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
Considering they keep changing the targets to match what happens, I agree...but what good is that?
Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested
Then how can it possibly be "intellectual theft" if it is completely wrong?
NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft"
If so it's the only sign of intellect we've seen from them in the last three years, so I'm not surprised they'd desperately want it back :P
When did he ever promise that?
http://www.examiner.com.au/s
Turnbull confirms NBN will honour contracts
Mr Turnbull confirmed a previous pledge honouring all existing contracts signed by NBN Co to roll out Fibre-to-the-Premises (FttP) in Tasmania as ``the alternative would be to breach them and that is a course we would not countenance''.
http://www.examiner.com.au/s
Every contract the NBN Co has entered into will be honoured in accordance with its terms,
We understand that NBN contracts have been signed for the entire Tasmanian rollout and you can see Visionstream trucks travelling around the state
But conclusions drawn from these leaks may wrong. The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets. IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested. So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
They spent $12 billion buying the copper and HFC from Telstra and Optus.
$1.5 billion giving an upgrade contract to Telstra for the HFC network.
Hrmm, these are some big numbers that need to go on record. AFAIK, unless chemistry rewrites itself, these 2 costs are distinctly related to copper.
Keep fooling yourself.
The leaks brings transparency back to the public. This has been severely lacking since the MTM backflip.
First the Spanish times reports it, now Japanese times
Okay Turnbull we know you didn't want the NBN to be an AUSTRALIAN election issue.. So now its gone world wide..
Oh dear back fire
But conclusions drawn from these leaks may wrong.
The conclusion to be drawn from the leaks in unequivocal. MTM is a financial disaster
IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that
Morrow has said a lot of things that, if nbn� were a publicly listed company, really would give ASIC grounds to bring in the AFP.
Oh dear back fire
More like fuel refinery explosion now.
Great it being exposed we do need the NBN we deserve, not the pixie dusted MTM rot.
I was seriously not expecting a raid by the AFP... Especially over the NBN. What the hell just happened and why did it happen?
IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested. So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
But they were spending 10 times the amount expected on pre-activation remediation.
The only reason for much of the CIC is to hide the incompetence. Liberal / Labor � whoever, the NBN is a commercial operator in its own space, the CIC claims dont hold water.
Turnbull could talk about the NBN all day if he wanted to. Bill Shorten
would actually say something while doing so.
FIFY.
Fifield gone into hiding today?
Hoping his fake leak doesn't attract the AFP?
The only reason for much of the CIC is to hide the incompetence. Liberal / Labor � whoever, the NBN is a commercial operator in its own space, the CIC claims dont hold water
Agreed.
I have also noticed MT in the paper saying they don't leak, when we have just seen a series of planted leaks in the Murdoch press aimed at discrediting the ALP version of the NBN.
Even before the ALP has announced it's policy, they are leaking against what they are worried it may be.
Are the Federal Police going to investigate this leaks ...... probably not as they are official NBN management leaks ... NBN management will not complain about them .....
Or if they are not official leaks have they also been referred to to the Feds?
The is absolutely no doubt we need strong whistleblower protection legislation in this country.
Getting the Feds to investigate and threatening legal action is just a way of deterring would be whistleblowers and hiding the truth.
But in this case I think the clumsy politically motivated action by NBN management has just put the issue on the front page .... all the smart voters are thinking what have they got to hide?
Wasting the Feds time hiding politically inconvenient truths is a waste of taxpayers money, and an abuse of democracy ... something the ALP would be well advised to point out to voters whenever they can.
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
It has already missed them. Would you like to comment on the fact that while it may be illegal to leak documents, the position is not quite so clear cut regarding receiving them, so the choice of targets for the raids is bemusing to say the least? The ALP cannot leak what they do not have � but we do know one office that resembles a boat built of barnacles...
Fifield gone into hiding today?
Hoping his fake leak doesn't attract the AFP?
Great minds think alike.....
I bet the fake leaks have not been referred to the AFP.
While the ALP is protesting the timing, it is doing more damage to the LNP side, the public understand the purpose of leaks and why governments and business want to cover them up.
I'm just waiting for the AFP to raid NBNco's offices to drag the board off for lying on a massive scale to a senate committee.
Would be a fitting end to the idiots that have done so much damage to not just NBNco, but Telstra and Vodafone.
Even if FTTN is running to some sort of schedule, the years it's taken to change technology, get agreements to use the copper etc, mean the build is delayed, and hence slower. If FTTN is so great, why doesn't it appear in any of NBNco's TV ads ?
Turnbull confirms NBN will honour contracts
Thankyou Terror_Blade, was just looking for some links.
You're relying on what others say so that's a problem.
Actually I'm relying on what Turnbull himself said. So that's the problem (rookie mistake on my part).
The AFP Commissioner says otherwise.
If he tells you a square is a circle, does that make it correct? As Xenocaust posted here whrl.pl/ReCQCZ.
http://www.afp.gov.au/what-w
Politically Sensitive matters
All matters where the execution of a search warrant may have politically sensitive implications (not limited to fraud) should be raised with the Minister responsible for the AFP by the relevant Minister or Department at the time of referral. This enables the Government to be informed at the earliest juncture of potentially politically contentious matters that may require investigation by the AFP, in accordance with the Commonwealth Fraud Control Guidelines.
Which I why I say All the facts and evidence, as everything I can see points to someone within the current government being made aware of what's going on, and I find it very hard to believe they wouldn't have let Turnbull know.
Note Kingy, I'm not saying Turnbull was behind it or involved with it, just that he was aware of it.
I find it very hard to believe they wouldn't have let Turnbull know.
Plausible deniability
I was seriously not expecting a raid by the AFP... Especially over the NBN.
I've been expecting it for months.
/forum-replies.cfm?t=2499050&p=76#r1514
What the hell just happened and why did it happen?
The AFP have chosen to investigate the leaks exposing the lies and misuse of public funds by nbn� at the request of nbn�, as if such leaks are a threat to the Australian people (while leaks from government to friendly media are normal and unexamined).
I like how Turnbull handled this question by the press because a Prime Minister shouldn't engage conspiracy theories.
Turnbull got elected based on lies and conspiracy theories. He continues to spout them. The fact that he is now PM doesnt hasnt stopped him. If he isnt worried about it, I dont see why you should be.
The Prime Minister was only made aware of the NBN leaks investigation yesterday.
Ha!. The timing is just all a big co-incidence right? There have been much bigger issues where leaks have happened and the AFP is nowhere to be seen. The government are the ones set to be most embarrassed by these leaks. It really doesnt take Einstein to work out what is going on. We have already seen how Turnbull can ensure an outcome without actually stating it with FTTN and the MTM. We are seeing the same again now. Turnbull is a conniving lawyer and a politician on top. He regularly shows he cant be trusted. The Abbbott/Turnbull government have attacked free speech from the outset. Why do you seriously think this is no different?
Promised by the Labor government.
And they had started the rollout there, If Turnbull was honouring contracts all Tasmanians would have FTTP, not MTM. If honouring the contract means ripping it out to you then it must not mean much
Are the documents really commercial-in-confidence at all?
I doubt they are. A quick google came up with a possible legal precedent that may be relevant : In a case of 'Commonwealth of Australia v John Fairfax & Sons Ltd the judge' found:
��the defence [of public interest] applies to disclosures of things done in breach of national security, in breach of the law (including fraud) and to disclosure of matters which involve danger to the public.
�.
It is unacceptable, in our democratic society, that there should be a restraint on the publication of information relating to government when the only vice of that information is that it enables the public to discuss, review and criticize government action.
Accordingly, the court will determine the government's claim to confidentiality by reference to the public interest. Unless disclosure is likely to injure the public interest, it will not be protected.
That from the Commonwealth Attorney General's Department website.
I would love to see them place a value on that.
Yes as a work of fiction I can't see it in the best seller list :)
NBN Co has stated that it was "intellectual theft". It doesn't make sense for a business not to protect its own financial interests.
Where were the AFP when leaks happened under Labor? Where have they been for much bigger and more concerning leaks from other departments and businesses working on govt projects?
The Prime Minister was only made aware of the NBN leaks investigation yesterday. The AFP Police Commissioner said the same thing.
Whilst the AFP may not have told Turnbull, I cannot believe the NBNCo didn't inform the shareholder ministers when they asked the AFP to investigate the leaks.
Of course. I strongly support disclosure in the public interest.
Except you support NBN Co's actions that do everything to ensure public disclosure doesn't happen. YOu cant have it both ways.
But conclusions drawn from these leaks may wrong
We cant make proper conclusions without them, because NBN Co dont provide open and transparent reporting.
Case in point The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.. No one knows where the rollout truly is up to. NBN Co dont disclose enough information for proper analysis. They made up the new targets and wont provide the basis so it can be analysed. Thanks for proving the point.
IIRC, Morrow said in estimates that they weren't spending as much on copper as leaks suggested. The opposite is happening. They understated the copper spend by a factor of 10. You cant change that fact, as awkward as it is.
So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
That really doesnt need answering. The only way we get decent information, in the public interest is thanks to the leaks. Sad but true. Taxpayers and the public deserve much better than the management and board of NBN Co are providing. The AFP stunt to shut down public discussion is just the latest embarrassment for them.
Now that is quite amusing...I would love to see them place a value on that
Eleventy Billion for the the creative writing by Bill Morrow AO (oops, to the announced next year)
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
Rollout targets yes. The targets can always be adjusted again if required.
Performance targets... not so much. Even changeing the the performance measurement to be 'achieved once in a 24 hr period' did not raise the performance measures to anything resembling a modern network.
Turnbull confirms NBN will honour contracts
You are wasting time presenting facts to Kingforce. They have been presented countless times before and he will just continue to ignore them and continually present some alternative version of reality (and get away with it).
So what public interest was actually gained from the leaks?
it enables the public to discuss, review and criticize government action.
Now � what commercial harm has NBN or its partners suffered from the disclosure of that information?
The documents have been available online for months. They are all about what problems NBN is facing and what they're doing about it, and how the project is going. There are no intellectual or trade secrets that I could see.
Whilst the AFP may not have told Turnbull, I cannot believe the NBNCo didn't inform the shareholder ministers when they asked the AFP to investigate the leaks.
I suspect it was the other way around. The leak truly is more embarrassing for the government than it is for NBN Co. No one seriously expects the MTM is going to be a success, and that it is going to come in under time or under budget. The government keeps assuring us the contrary though, and dont want to see any change away from its original policy � even now they are intimating they want to stick with FTTN of FTTdP or increased FTTP.
We will never know when the discussion happened. The only thing that is definite is that the government will continue to treat us like we are idiots.
What #NBN approach is better value for $$$ ??? FTTN FTTP
A one question survey:
https://twitter.com/ValueMgmt/status/732832466650726404
or the longer version:
What is really important to you about FTTP FTTN? Compare their value for $$$?
A Valuing FTTN & FTTP; NBN Australia 2016 Survey
Rate #NBN #FTTN #FTTP on #value for money� on a number of dimensions...
... or add your own dimensions...
The FTTN rollout is more likely than not to meet targets.
2016 � 25mbs � 29.5 billion � oh that's right
This day may just be remembered as the day that truth finally won out.
The conclusion to be drawn from the leaks in unequivocal. MTM is a financial disaster
MTM is a financial, technical and national-interest disaster. There is no aspect where it isn't a disaster.
ftfy ;-)
we have just seen a series of planted leaks in the Murdoch press aimed at discrediting the ALP version of the NBN.
Sounds like birds of a feather � the coalition and News Corp seem to have a direct common interest in ensuring that Australia never gets a world-class FTTP based network.
They may have their separate reasons for hating the thought of the NBN, but they seem remarkably united in sponsoring utter rubbish to bring about the defeat of their common enemy.
Trying to keep up. Not sure if this has been put up yet.
Unbiased reporting from the Rupert stable of horseshite,
The Daily TeleCrap (front page. Friday 30 May 2016)
Not reportage... editorializing on the front page.
Just a few observations. I've been having a poke around this afternoon about the timing ... found this Youtube video from the 3rd December 2015 ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqDSRXryUe4
Rather than you all having to watch the whole thing, skip to approx 4:15. It's Fifield answering a question in Question Time about the NBN, and in particular, referring to this leaked info ....
https://11217-presscdn-0-50-
Thanks to Renai LeMay for saving it (got it from Delimiter).
So .... what does this mean? Well ... we've had the AFP go on record today stating that:
"This matter was referred to us in December of 2015 by NBN Co, not by the Government." � Commissioner Andrew Colvin
There's not a whole lot of parliament activity on record during December (as you would expect), but that date was notable, with Fifield brushing off the leak (in the video) stating that "you don't need to be worried about the mis-characterisation of the document in the paper today".
Just thinking through this ... but given the timing of WHEN they asked the AFP to perform the investigation ... it's clear that SOMEONE was worried enough to ask the AFP for an investigation. Who could that have been? I can't think of anyone else in NBNCo that would have done so except Bill Morrow, particularly for such a serious matter.
Does Malcolm honestly think that Bill Morrow WOULDN'T have checked in with Fifield before asking? Seriously? Considering the leak revelations were biting them a bit at the time, it sounds like a great time to put an investigation in motion on the sly.
The Coalition's stench around this story is overpowering. I wonder what the metadata looks like for Bill Morrow's and Mitch Fifield's phones on that day hmmm?
Anyhoo ... back to our regularly scheduled programming ...
AFP Commissioner has referred matter to Police Integrity Unit to find out if media was alerted to #AFPRaids
That should be interesting considering the lnp propaganda wing (Sky news) was at conroy's house before the afp got there.
https://twitter.com/crowedm/status/733564426167586818
Labor launches legal bid over photos taken by an NBN Co employee of documents in Stephen Conroy's office.
And now this.
Sir Arrowflight KCMG writes...
Unbiased reporting from the Rupert stable of horseshite
We would expect nothing less. There are now years of evidence to confirm that.
The Daily TeleCrap (front page. Friday 30 May 2016)
BTW, that looks like a nice ability to see into the future . . .
;-)
BTW, that looks like a nice ability to see into the future . . .
But not to a calender. Mine says 30 May 2016 is a Monday? Weird weekend
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2
Our great AFP at work.
But not to a calendar. Mine says 30 May 2016 is a Monday? Weird weekend
Must be a long weekend, then . . .
We probably shouldn't let ourselves get distracted by such issues � after all, there are plenty of coalition MTM fanciers here to cause diversions without adding to the collection!
2016 � 25mbs � 29.5 billion � oh that's right
I think the kind of targets KingForce has in mind are .... deliver something ... to someone .. some time .... for well ... a lot of money.
OK ... go close to delivering something to someone one day for an exorbitant price ...... NBNco are even sweating on making that target...... but they are ex-Telstra so no real surprise.
BTW, that looks like a nice ability to see into the future . . .
;-)
But not to a calender. Mine says 30 May 2016 is a Monday? Weird weekend
Must be a long weekend, then . . .
Bastards ! *shakes fist*
I was using the Joe Hockey EleventyTM keyboard.
(He,he)
Our great AFP at work.
Seems highly unprofessional to let a civilian in on a raid without adequate supervision, given the highly political nature of this it should have also waited until after the election.
I don't see how the leaks are an issue though, the leaks are a matter of public interest given what has been going on over at NBN.
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Nice one this, it's claimed that NBN had a "spectacularly incompetent" funding model which would've produced a highly competent product vs the current incompetent funding model that is producing a spectacularly incompetent product.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/
The National Broadband Network (NBN) has agreed to destroy photographs taken by one of its employees during last night's police raids on Labor Party offices.
The ABC understands the representative, acting as a "special constable", took photos of 34 or 35 documents that are subject to parliamentary privilege.
This is the NBN employee given an AFP makeover, and specifically chosen for their expertise in identifying NBNCo internal documents.
How on earth could he have mistaken Labor party documents for NBN documents?
Maybe because both the NBN employee and the papers are both made from dead wood?
If this NBN employee was only going to take photos of the documents and then view them later, why did he need to be there in the first place?
In these political circumstances on the eve of a closely fought election, a camera in a Ministers office could be considered far more dangerous than a gun.
Or was this NBN employee given instructions, or just took it upon himself to take a peak and a picture of Labors NBN election or post election plans, policies, or strategies?
One piece of good to hopefully come out of this disastrous PR stunt for the AFP and the MTM creators and Managers, is the fire it might put into the belly of the Federal Oppositions and voters, for the rest of the campaign, on the NBN, and a range of other important issues, that can be linked to this sorry saga.
How on earth could he have mistaken Labor party documents for NBN documents?
How on earth was he allowed to enter the premises with a telephone or any kind of video recorder, he was there to point at stuff that is all. This is will be a highly political issue, the AFP have thrown themselves under the bus.
Does Malcolm honestly think that Bill Morrow WOULDN'T have checked in with Fifield before asking? Seriously? Considering the leak revelations were biting them a bit at the time, it sounds like a great time to put an investigation in motion on the sly.
Is it just me, or do I sense these raids may have been triggered by the terrible news from the Mediterranean about the loss of the Egyptian aircraft? It certainly smacks of the situation in the UK on 11 Sept 2001, by Jo Moore, who worked for Stephen Byers, the Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions. Miss Moore�s memo, written at 2.55pm on September 11, when millions of people were transfixed by the terrible television images of the terrorist attack, was widely condemned for suggesting �It is now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. Councillors expenses?�
I�d really like to see what messages Colvin received from any Government ministers or their aides yesterday��� �It is now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury. NBN leaks?� As another post said, "I'd love to see their phone metadata yesterday!"
Sir Arrowflight KCMG writes...
I was using the Joe Hockey Eleventy� keyboard.
Oh, that's all right then!
You should have said you were, quite rightly, using the same abacus the coalition use for their MTM . . .
How on earth was he allowed to enter the premises with a telephone or any kind of video recorder, he was there to point at stuff that is all. This is will be a highly political issue, the AFP have thrown themselves under the bus.
Other AFP raids have gone similarly spectacularly badly. If labor was in charge, The Libs, News Limited, Kingforce would all be calling for a royal commission. With such a screwup, AFP heads need to roll.
Does Malcolm honestly think that Bill Morrow WOULDN'T have checked in with Fifield before asking?
Not so much that but, does Malcolm Turnbull honestly think we will believe Fifield wasn't told.
aiui the AFP protocol requires them to inform their minister before they undertake any politically sensitive action. Do they honestly think that we will believe the AFP either didn't think raiding an opposition Senator's office during an election campaign isn't politically sensitive or that they didn't follow their protocol.
The Coalition's stench around this story is overpowering.
You have just qualified for the understatement of the year competition :)
Turnbull is a conniving lawyer and a politician on top. He regularly shows he cant be trusted.
Was watching his face on the tv when he was saying it was nothing to do with his government that the afp raided the place. I could see LIE WRITTEN ALL OVER IT AS PLAIN AS DAY.
What a tosser.
Was watching his face on the tv when he was saying it was nothing to do with his government that the afp raided the place. I could see LIE WRITTEN ALL OVER IT AS PLAIN AS DAY.
Do you inside evidence to prove otherwise?
They spent $12 billion buying the copper and HFC from Telstra and Optus.
Both parties support this policy and Labor initiated this.
$1.5 billion giving an upgrade contract to Telstra for the HFC network.
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Both parties support this policy and Labor initiated this.
They spent 11B to buy access to pits and ducts with the intent to END THE LIFE OF COPPER, giving T remuneration for customers shifted to NBN FTTP.
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Which is being overbuilt by FTTN anyway.
Please put forward real arguments you are inept at putting forward legitimate answers/statements.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Much better a FTTP overbuild than pissing $50 billion down the drain on Fraudband.
UPROAR over the AFP raids on Labor figures is growing tonight after it was revealed an NBN employee was with police and took photos he sent to his company.
Labor fears the 32 photos it thought had been deleted from a mobile phone are now in the hands of the company.
Lawyers for the ALP are demanding the Federal Police explain why the photos were disseminated, and to be given a list of the documents copied in them.
Labor fears confidential election material and protected papers used in Senate inquiries could be among the documents.
Unintended consequences of a series of really stupid decisions.
an NBN Co employee named Steere
Mr Steere was there to identify documents related to the search, but he also took photographs on his mobile phone.
why Mr Steere disseminated the photos when AFP officers present had acknowledged they were privileged. It also asked, �Under whose authority did he take such action?�
Something to keep some of us busy with tonight
Telstra has proposed to tweak the migration plan to ensure greater service continuity for customers.
The telco�s proposed changes include the provision of additional time for premises with an NBN order to be connected before mandatory disconnection occurs, and amendment of the process to prepare business grade services for the multi-technology NBN.
http://www.accc.gov.au/syste
Discussion paper on Telstra's proposal to vary the migration plan
http://www.accc.gov.au/syste
Telstra's submission
Looks like Clive's going to go out swinging.
UPROAR over the AFP raids on Labor figures is growing tonight after it was revealed an NBN employee was with police and took photos he sent to his company.
So are we going to see Fairfax tomorrow raise News Corp's
"Cop's Raid Labor"
front page stories today, with a headline of
"COP and NBN steals Labor election secrets"
https://twitter.com/clivefp
@TurnbullMalcolm asked me to remove #Conroy from NBN #Senate Committee
Frank Buijk ?@FrankBuijk 3h3 hours ago
@CliveFPalmer Sorry to be intrusive on this,but was that at Wild Duck in Kingston?
Nice one Frank
Oh dear this is huge .This could bring Turnball down .I wait in anticipation.
After Dutton pissed off half of Australia, the APF raid today, NBN employee stealing labor secrets and sending them to NBN and then this. The results of the opinion polls for this period are going to be interesting. The next Morgan Poll will be one to watch. With every week of warmer late spring and early winter weather possibly going to add another swathe of anti-Coalition votes in recognition that Climate change is a threat to be reckoned with.
I dread to think of what anti-greens, anti-labor and anti-independent mud will be thrown around next week to try and change the subject.
Can't wait to see the face of my brave local sitting member at the train station next week.
https://twitter.com/CliveFPa
The NBN cost has blown out by $15 billion, that's nearly half of Government debt of $39 billion 7 hours ago
Go Clive. (In more ways than one.)
How do you mean?
Just copying/referencing a tweet in response to Clive's tweet about Turnbull and Conroy
https://twitter.com/jackyjac
Oh dear this is huge .This could bring Turnball down .I wait in anticipation.
Clive's tweet about Turnbull and Conroy
Headline in Fairfax media tomorrow maybe
"Clive's leak washes away Turnbull's dreams"
I dread to think of what anti-greens, anti-labor and anti-independent mud will be thrown around next week to try and change the subject.
I can almost hear Murdoch media yelling fly my pretty's fly Wizard of Oz style.
ust copying/referencing a tweet in response to Clive's tweet about Turnbull and Conroy
Yes, but how could Clives tweet bring Turnbull down? What am I missing?
I can almost hear Murdoch media yelling fly my pretty's fly Wizard of Oz style.
Time to keep an eye on what Col Allan's up to.
I'd be stocking up on black ink in anticipation of a shortage for if News Corp publications lay it on really thick and black to scare the voters about a whole range of issues in the next 6 weeks.
Watch them go after the next Generation of potential and talented Labor leaders. Bowen, Plibersek, Albanese and Clair. To try and make it an easier run for team Abbott v2.0 to rise again in 2019 and try and kill off or gain control of NBN 3.0.
Yes, but how could Clives tweet bring Turnbull down? What am I missing?
Clive wanted to get 3 rugby playing sheep from The King's School to gang tackle Senator Conroy to take Conroy off the NBN Senate Committee. The King's School Headmaster said no to this plan; the sheep were too vital for rugby practice.
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
It�s unclear why the AFP waited more than six months from the first leak and two months since the most recent leak
part of a �phased approach� the AFP had taken to the investigation
Looks like the agile and collaborative approach did not work out too well for the AFP and NBN this time.
Unintended consequences of a series of really stupid decisions.
Yep, in a really big way. It will be interesting to see if the NBNCo staffer has committed a criminal act.
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
Shadow Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has also said the government needs to answer questions on whether it pressured NBN into referring the matter to the AFP for investigation. Coalition election spokesman Mathias Cormann ducked the question three times during interviews this morning. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said he was only made aware of the investigation yesterday.
Questions on whether other government ministers or staffers were aware of the investigation have so far gone unanswered by the Coalition�s campaign media team. NBN declined to comment.
Morale at NBN Co is going to be real interesting on Monday morning.
Yep, in a really big way. It will be interesting to see if the NBNCo staffer has committed a criminal act.
32 criminal acts?
Wouldn't he be able to claim immunity on the basis that he was a special AFP Constable and thought that meant he was immune from getting into trouble. That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
I still can't believe this is how our society works. We have FEDERAL POLICE running around chasing paper work that is public property... paid for by the public/taxpayer/Australian yet hidden by a politically controlled and poorly run GBE that holds said taxpayers in contempt at every turn and prevents them from knowing actual truths about how not only their money is spent but how their future is MASSIVELY impacted by said spending and wasting UPTO 56 BILLION dollars (that we only know of!!) on an absolute joke of a 'policy'... yet its paper work that is their priority.
Yeah. OK.
What a fkd up society. This is where your priorities go when people only have to go to a shop to get their food (a very long play at natural selection... or the lack thereof no).
Comment about the Crikey article makes for interesting reading.
Wonder how long it will take before a whole raft of Whirlpool posts in the last few hours will also disappear.
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
Curiouser and curiouser. Now the AFP has had to admit that the NBN employee, described in earlier reports as having been assigned the role of �constable assisting� during the raids, has released data from the raids which is supposed to be sealed. The data consisted of photos of papers taken during the raids. Too late � horses and stable doors.
On Fairfax a strong article by Michael Bachelard was open for comments for only 20 minutes. Now on Guardian Australia a late article, about the protest by the ALP�s lawyer over release of this data which might be protected by Parliamentary privilege since Conroy is a Senate Committee member, was open to comments but then suddenly disappeared and no further comments can be made. Earlier articles have also disappeared, especially those describing the �constable assisting�.
What is going on?
That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
But even if that is the case, certainly not authorized to go on a fishing expedition and disseminate his findings to his colleagues .
http://www.crikey.com.au/201
Simon Breheny, director of policy at the Institute of Public Affairs: If your offices are raided by the Australian Federal Police during an election campaign, it�s fair to say things are not going well for you. This is the situation the ALP finds itself in after the office of former communications minister Stephen Conroy and the home of another Labor staffer was raided on Thursday night. The attempts by some in the Shorten camp to turn this back on the government are � to put it mildly � a stretch.The AFP raid was just the final chapter in a less than ideal day for Labor.
Lol.
But if one of the AFP constables (special or not so special) is caught steeling confidential labor documents during the raid, and transmitting them to his employer, then you know that things are really not going well for you (AFP, NBN and the bosses of both AFP and NBN = Federal Coalition)
But even if that is the case, certainly not authorized to go on a fishing expedition and disseminate his findings to his colleagues .
Did he get his induction training down the Pub with a pint of piss?
Wouldn't he be able to claim immunity on the basis that he was a special AFP Constable and thought that meant he was immune from getting into trouble.
No, police (sworn or otherwise) don't have immunity � legislation and regulation can permit them to do things that the general public cannot, but only in prescribed circumstances.
That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
(IANAL but) I believe that search warrants are prescriptive, and material obtained in the execution of one has to be safeguarded by the police � sharing it with a third party is unlikely to be acceptable in the best of circumstances, let alone when the material is claimed to be privileged.
Did he get his induction training down the Pub with a pint of piss?
"We're in tight with the government so we'll do whatever the flap we like"
Someone from Ruddstra MTM mk3 of 2013 has a mobile [phone], and knows how to use it?
Nah!
That he had a license to search for evidence using whatever tools were at his disposal.
I doubt he had license to distribute the pictures though. I suspect that's a criminal act, even for a temporary copper.
...and in unrelated news Tony Abbott hit a minor stroke of luck today, when his scratchie payed up big today... to the tune of about... lets say $56 billion... or was that $29.5 billion... we forget around here.
Back to you in the studio...
No, police (sworn or otherwise) don't have immunity � legislation and regulation can permit them to do things that the general public cannot, but only in prescribed circumstances.
Incorrect, providing that control didn't tell them he couldn't they are indemnified from criminal and civil liability
exemption from criminal liability and indemnity from civil liability for law enforcement and civilian participants who act in accordance with the controlled operation authority
EDIT: I'm not saying that NBN Co's employee is covered by this, I highly suspect that they have violated the policy by not ensuring the control of documents that were to be sealed under parliamentary privilege, just rebutting the position they don't have immunity. In a controlled operation they have no criminal liability and are indemnified from civil liability as long as they are following the guidelines from the operation authority.
Looks like the agile and collaborative approach did not work out too well for the AFP and NBN this time.
The terms agile, collaborative....and even efficiency certainly don't apply to the now 4000+ folk who are happily feeding from the NBNCo money trough and still don't have real KPIs to meet.
Re the AFP, they do a pretty difficult job pretty well, so are obviously not conducting these raids just for the heck of it. Now most of us will ignore the conjecture, and sit back and wait to see just why these raids were carried out now, i.e. during this election cycle.
I still can't fathom why the AFP were there in the first place. This was a job for lawyers, not cops. Especially during an election campaign. Have they nothing better to do?
The biggest losers here are the LNP, and the credibility of the NBN and AFP.
But I'm sure the mainstream media wont let the sheep know that.
when the material is claimed to be privileged.
Allegedly the AFP were warned it was privileged and let it be photographed anyway.
Morale at NBN Co is going to be real interesting on Monday morning.
With govt guaranteed employment and funding (and of course typical public service Ts and Cs), don't think that there will be too many worried folk.
The biggest losers here are the LNP, and the credibility of the NBN
What credibility?
What credibility?
Just trying to control my anger by toning down the words.
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
Except that it has required huge amounts of effort and cost to come up with an NBN HFC solution that previously didn't exist, tons of money to buy the aging, rotting HFC networks, and for it you get none of the benefits or futureproofing of the FTTP network. Oh, and much of the limited RF capacity is being taken away by Foxtel in the long term, and Telstra/Optus DOCSIS in the medium term. DOCSIS 3.1 at its best would require large amounts of HFC equipment to be replaced with modern gear.
A lovely solution. Especially when it's intended to host VoIP for telephony, but none of the active equipment (or the NTD) will have battery backups. First rate infrastructure!
"better" as far as short term capital investment maybe, but worse by any other metric
Allegedly the AFP were warned it was privileged and let it be photographed anyway.
However as it was a controlled operation, this will be all indemnified away and no-one will be liable for the data breach.
The question will be whether the NBN Co staff member was told not to or not, if he wasn't told he couldn't do that, then he too will be indemnified.
The one part that won't be is sharing it with his employer. That will not be part of the controlled operation, and doing so will be in, at the very least breaches of the terms of his approval to join the operation, and at worst, is criminally leaking information. The irony not being lost on me of that situation.
I haven't seen any studies on it but is anyone aware if there were any studies done about the benefits to SMBs of the fibre NBN?
Yep, it was completely covered in Turnbull's CBA where... oh, wait, no it wasn't.
I'd imagine SMB's (and larger B's) would raise the overall ARPU so long as they can get access to the higher speed tiers. This helps pay off the whole network faster, and hastens the reduction in CVC cost over time, IIRC.
It should be fairly self-evident that faster speeds up and down increase productivity in a business. Time saved in shifting data means more time to work on that data.
No doubt, Mr Steele's metadata should reveal to whom he sent the pix, and to how many! And who the recipients may have shared to in turn...
not if sent by Wickr or Signal or any other messaging platform not subject to metadata retention.
As to the issue of who tipped off the media � well, that's painfully obvious... AFP have denied tipping off
Malcolm has been circumventing the political process since becoming shadow communications minister, not mention due to fact of past and likely current personal investments whether it be locally held in trust or be it of international held stock and bonds he has had a major conflict interest that he has yet to be called accountable for..
Back several thread ago i posted a conclusion of what NBN Mk1 would become which has become true, that FTTN has become where deployed an extension of the top hat program that Telstra has committed to installing due to their black spot program which has been active in some form for the last 15-20+ years..
How fttn effects me as a consumer in WA living within the federal seat of swan under the council zone of City of Belmont within the suburb of Cloverdale, prior to me shifting out of this zone we were at the major stage of requiring a complete overhaul of copper infrastructure due in part to the lack of lines, prior to me leaving Sept/Oct of 2012 there were steps of telstra installing ducting within the council zone for install of fibre optic services, I shifted back within this zone December 2015, I see my absence from this area nothing has changed within the telecommunications infrastructure, yet I have noticed alot of change within the skyline within the area with the amount of new buildings going in..
In context of where i now live, I live up past Keane street in Cloverdale looking at what wiring I seen from the inspection access on the side of the unit I already know the wiring installed would not comply with the 2008 mandate by telstra a minimum specification of Cat-5 or better must on new active services...
From what i saw in service from my last address i would a max line distance for FTTN support for Vdsl, at my new home from the comms box i would likely exceed lan distance spec for 10Gb, 1Gb and likely 100mb, I do not know where the the D/A that services the address with a telephone services..
though knowing what i know and given the telecommunications upgrade that would be a basic access need to replace the copper I wonder if it would economical to upgrade the premises infrastructure to be in basic compliance of 2008 ords, to bring the copper up to nbn standards or whether it be prudent to the replace the infrastructure with new copper or cheaper to go the route of fibre optics and be done with it an not having to bother with it for the next 50 years or go to a second stage route upgrade to fibre at a later stage....
As for the current political bullshit smear campaign and hiding the truth's from the public I don't know..
looking ate my advanced payment protocols of funds I have access too under 21,000 or less DSP payment I have a max of $2,400 of accessible funds across 2 advanced payments a year to invest into ftth/p delivery, though personally I don't want a install price of over $1,000 dollars due to my already limited income as it..
there is a lot things I would like to be able to do from home though due to the lack of adequate broadband speed is less than a 1mb up or down there is not adequate bandwidth for my requirements.. with where my current network sits I do not have the adequate bandwidth to service those requirement, and i be stuffed if i'm going to be held to ransom by a politician that has both vested and invested interest's held within his own personal stocks and bonds he earns a dividend on and pushes a political solution to the public yet fails to concede that fttp/h actually benefits his farming interests within business interests he already has....
From the conference I was watching Turnbull was pretty cool under pressure.
Not sure what you were watching KIngy but he knew the lines ..no doubt he is complicit with this NBN raid farce and knows all....his reputation depends on it. He is well known to take risks...utegate?...and gambles at everyone else's expense eg NBN for his benefit, presuming not his own...karma Kingy.....
Turnbull could talk about the NBN all day if he wanted to
He talk anything for days ....and end up saying basically nothing � focus though, the real issue is abuse of office.
In contrast Labor is sending out very confusing messages about the whole raid situation.
You mean Turnbull is trying to confuse everyone as usual... He didn't want to talk NBN just accuse Labor of attacking the AFP...that is what is contrary to the fact. Every Labor person I have seen has clearly and succinctly said they are not having a go at the AFP but at the govt...
how could Turnbull have it so wrong..oh that's right...lies are not lies if they are said to save his butt....because that is 'common sense' ... /S
This one:
Looks a very drawn worried man there KIngy...as if he was about to fess up that he has screwed the NBN....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Clare hasn't said anything, neither has Conroy.
Actually Clare was in a piece with Dreyfuss this morning
Clare implies that last night's raids were under direct orders of the Liberal party.
Everyone is implying that ...so?
The AFP has contradicted Labor's suggestions
Not at all...that is your preferred reading of what they said...APF have tried very carefully to walk the wire....
It would seem though that protocols may have been breeched but as far as LNP are concerned as long as they have the info then they will put up with flak. Meta data records of where the photos went would be interesting....
Morrow also says that, as does Karina � their actions say otherwise.
Simply confirms the naivety of them all to not recognise the consequence of their actions to escalate the NBN Co leaks to AFP without proper protocols (it seems)...
The AFP is an upstanding institution
You are right the AFP as an institution is upstanding....no head of the AFP would act unilaterally to conduct this sort of raid (the NBN raid) when the country is in election mode without reference to the Minister in charge...and that is not the Minister for Comms � Filield. It is beyond comprehension unless they see themselves as above govt.
The real point is Turnbull and the relevant Ministers involved are not doing their job if they are saying they knew nothing and Fifield saying he did not inform any of them clearly demonstrates that.
Does AFP now say because it was caretaker mode govt they had to act unilaterly because there is no 'ruling' govt in place...
Very strange that the Labor party should seek to undermine its reputation.
False statement Kingy � at no point has Labor reps attacked the AFP, quite the contrary.
Perhaps a quote (you are using in your head) referenced to any media video report re the NBN raid of what they actually said would be useful to your argument or a transcript perhaps
But surely they would have known they'd claim parlimentary privilege, which can't be resolved until you have a new government?
So might that mean Labor would not be able to refer to them in election period for fear of breech of Parliamentary Privilege and a successful election for Labor could be deemed invalid if found guilty of that...?? Stopping any debate/discussion on NBN? ?
Then how can it possibly be "intellectual theft"
It is false flattery to imply the nbn MTM is intellectually valuable ...it is bereft of any intellectual value what so ever....
Just a few observations. I've been having a poke around this afternoon about the timing .
I'm catchin up to this fast moving thread as well. This is your post yesterday and it is interesting that today Fifield made a short announcement...prehaps your post sparked his memory? ...and some arse proection was required...he has been silent until today about the NBN raid.
This is will be a highly political issue, the AFP have thrown themselves under the bus.
Should be...AFP have either compromised themselves (by incompetence?) or been compromised (following orders?) it would seem... Any action without the Minister in charge of the AFP being informed, or more correctly without authorisation sought is foolhardy and very very dangerous...
With such a screwup, AFP heads need to roll.
That falls nicely into LNP script for absolution of Ministers and NBN Co CEO and Board........
Genetic Modified Zealot writes...
Both parties support this policy and Labor initiated this.
FYI LAbor was getting rid of the copper not buying new stuff... but you really do know this don't you...
Much better than overbuild at a big cost with FTTP.
You might want to check the info in the leaked docs which are so important, and must be so legitimate and true, to call in AFP otherwise they are chasing red herrings.... Your statement is false.
Turnbull's repeated assertions that the AFP is beyond reproach is another way of saying that they cannot possibly have done anything wrong, and to question that is unthinkable.
But I like to think about the unthinkable and believe there are elements to these events that are being hidden, and that Turnbull is desperate that they should not be be revealed.
The AFP need to explain how it was that an employee of NBNCo with connections to the Liberal Party was deputized as a Special Constable, invited along to the raid on the office of an ALP Senator, allowed to take photos of [publicly] unidentified documents and then pass those photos on to his employer and perhaps to other parties unknown. Why didn't the AFP officer in charge on the scene stop him from doing this?
How could such a police raid, with clear political consequences, not have been passed by the minister first? How could a representative of NBNCo be assigned to the raid without clearing such a politically explosive act with the Comms minister first? And was the matter also run past the PM? I don't doubt that more questions could be asked, and it won't be good enough for Turnbull or the AFP to continue to dodge explaining what happened.
There is an old saying: 'Justice not only needs to be done, but be seen to be done.' This applies just as much to police work as it does to the court room.
Simon Breheny, director of policy at the Institute of Public Affairs: If your offices are raided by the Australian Federal Police during an election campaign, ........The attempts by some in the Shorten camp to turn this back on the government are � to put it mildly � a stretch.The AFP raid was just the final chapter in a less than ideal day for Labor.
That appears to be the original script but.....how bad can things go...?? Total reversal?
LNP, Murdoch Media and IPA trying to justify the indefensible � all with cartons of egg on their faces .....what a sight.... how stupid to treat the public with such contempt.....
["General Manager Security Investigation nbn� Australia
November 2015 � Present (7 months)"
It would seem more than coincidence that AFP got involved around the same time this guy started in htis role at NBN Co and he happened to be the 'special agent' � did he also initiate AFP involvement to seek out these NBN Co docs perhaps?
Has Morrow made any official announcements as yet?
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