Does this mean that they started work before announcing the agreement?
To be honest IMO from observations on Perth streets there would be little doubt Telstra has been doing works for FTTN since late 2013. Lots of yellow barriers popped up in a number of locations and left there for months. There was extensive fibre laid from Cannington Exchange etc etc. Lets not forget that FTTN would appear to be little more than an upgrade from Telstra's Tophat tech. That's well prior to revised Telstra agreement too....
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
Can only mean spin for network not completed yet/not ready. NBN do not have services that can be connected at that point in time obviously.
RFS and/or premises passed stats would appear to be counted but services can't be connected.... lies lies and more lies IMO
Can only mean spin for network not completed yet/not ready.
That sounds like it.
It's a bit amusing, if like me you have that sense of humour � Turnbull in opposition never ceased excoriating NBN Co for designating areas as RFS before they actually were, and now his nbn� seems to be doing exactly the same thing.
RFS and/or premises passed stats would appear to be counted but services can't be connected...
But they have met all their targets!
It would be churlish to suggest there might be a little, er, imagination being applied here, surely?
I'm guessing that bringing a clapped out old voice network up to the standards for FTTN � is extremely difficult. It was never designed for this.
Yeah, but this is true overseas as well. Is our copper worse to the extent FTTN is not feasible but they don't want to admit it before the election? You could be right. They're going to have to face up to it soon though.
Man hours is the biggest cost so how many man hours would be needed to see if the local copper is fit for use, and remediation as needed? Then going back a few times for every incident of poor speeds?
I think checking the copper comes down to connecting a customer and seeing what happens. From what I've read here, if there's a problem it may or may not get fixed.
It begs the question of how they determine a node is RFS.
You're not on your own with that question :)
Yeah, but this is true overseas as well.
Most overseas countries with clapped out copper are not futilely attempting to retrofit FTTN.
They are doing the sensible, logical, correct, agile and innovative thing and installing FTTP or FTTdp/FTTB.
From what I've read here, if there's a problem it may or may not get fixed.
Or it may get duck-shoved seemingly for ever, in the apparent hope that the enduser will get fed up and give up.
Most overseas countries with clapped out copper are not futilely attempting to retrofit FTTN.
Except the UK. And even they have admitted its a complete mistake.
and their housing density is so different to ours. sharing walls with neighbours in streets where the houses look near identical and are 1/3 the width of Aussie house, obviously no side yards for a lot of them (being joined!) .
Even if the UK was giving FTTN top marks the difference in average distance from exchange or the efficiency of how many people you can run off a node would be cause for concern
Reality is � the area is RFS � until you actually try and connect.
If the entire SAM is like this then it should not be classified as RFS. As I understand it, the trigger is ~90% of premises must be able to order (and have installed) a service before a SAM can be declared RFS. A quick look at recent FttN activations show SAMs ranging from 1000 to 4200 premises.
See http://www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker/recent/bf
A quick investigation of the recent activations, suggest the entire SAM 5CPK-10 is classed SC10. Quite a few of the others from this list return the same result. The issue is not isolated to FttN SAMs.
I suspect there is an issue with the source data jxeeno is getting.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 targets.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 targets.
They shouldn't call an area ready for service if it isn't just to meet they're targets so they don't look bad.
They are doing the sensible, logical, correct, agile and innovative thing and installing FTTP or FTTdp/FTTB.
I was trying to keep away from this argument, not that there is one really, and focus on what's happening with FTTN. As far as I can see there are two possibilities: the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable and/or the NBNCo is running out of money.
Whatever it is, they're not going to tell us before the election. It will have to come out after the election though whichever side wins.
They shouldn't call an area ready for service if it isn't just to meet their targets so they don't look bad.
No they shouldn't, no matter how much political pressure may be being applied behind the scenes.
This would be a particularly egregious practice for nbn� to follow, given the previous never-ceasing Turnbull rampage against NBN Co for allegedly doing exactly the same thing.
What does "network shortfall" mean? A shortfall of what?
When I had my FTTP service activated this was reported. When I spoke to my RSP (iiNet), they said there was something about the NTD serial number not being recognised. I was asked to check it. As the installers had left the boxes for me to dispose of I scanned the serial number on the box and discovered there was a S on the front as there were two barcodes � the part number and the serial number. The Part number had a P for checking that was to be discarded and the serial number an S.
I called iiNet back and they confirmed the number provided when the installers scanned the data through they included the S.
Once corrected, the service was activated within minutes.
So, when network shortfall is reported, it covers a multitude of sins. Maybe it's to allow the system to report a successful connection, but not actually place any demands on it?
This would be a particularly egregious practice for nbn� to follow, given the previous never-ceasing Turnbull rampage against NBN Co for allegedly doing exactly the same thing.
Yeah well if it comes out that his doing the same thing, all he has to say is Labor did it first, we should be allowed a chance too. Bunch of hypocrites. You know they say 51-49 is close but if thats the case, we clearly see Shorten is unpopular compared to turnbull but with the way things are going i won't be surprised if Labor does somehow win this. Hopefully they can reveal everything the Coalition has done to the NBN and somehow fix it. But that would need a miracle
But why isn't it faster? There's a lot less work so it should be faster.
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
I was trying to keep away from this argument
That's certainly the impression given.
two possibilities: the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable and/or the NBNCo is running out of money.
There's a third one, which only arises due to the extreme personnel changes and other politicisation of nbn� which have recently occurred.
That would be that, as suspected, much of the CAN is shot and should be replaced to deliver anywhere near the QOS standards that were airily promised as an assured part of the MTM. So now the whole MTM miasma is being made to mark time until the election is safely out of the way.
But why isn't it faster?
More visits for the tech, replacing of degraded copper, people complaining when they don't get increased speeds.
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
And that data looks compelling.
But apparently we aren't supposed to know that. Perhaps it's an operational matter!
;-)
The data from jxeenos site suggests it is faster.
Yep, but is he counting premises reported as RFS but that can't order a service? It seems that's what the NBNCo is doing.
That's certainly the impression given.
It should be possible to discuss the issues with the FTTN part of the MTM without being sidetracked.
That would be that, as suspected, much of the CAN is shot and should be replaced to deliver anywhere near the QOS standards that were airily promised as an assured part of the MTM.
Is that different from "the copper is too far gone for FTTN to be viable"?
But they have met all their targets!
Here is my take on the grades of aiming at targets.
1. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, aim, release, and hit the center of the target.
2. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, aim, release, and hit the somewhere on the target.
3. Stand, draw the arrow against the bow, don't aim, release, and miss the target.
4. Stand but do nothing.
5. Sit around and complain that it's hate speech to be expected to shoot the arrow.
Overall I'd say that MTMCo haven't done better that #3.
Perhaps it's an operational matter!
I think so because they certainly have been doing a job on us.
And that data looks compelling.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Imagine the clarity that could be provided on this project if this approach was taken by nbnTM.
Yep, but is he counting premises reported as RFS but that can't order a service? It seems that's what the NBNCo is doing.
The data provided at www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker (formerly mynbn.info) is derived from a number of unofficial sources (as I understand it).
It beggars belief that nbnTM would be headed down this path. If it comes to light that nbnTM is declaring SAMs RFS when significant numbers of premises can't order successfully order a service, heads should be on the line, all the way up to the Minister.
politics aside, there's no reason that Labor shouldn't win and then expose these criminals. After the way they treated Conroy (regardless of what you may think of him) I think Dreyfus will go directly after Fizzbull'ss litigious ass.
The other alternative is nbnTM are going early in an effort to meet their FY2016 pre-election targets.
FTFY :)
Be wary of the poster posers where they do a selective rollout of hardware and have sweet fa infrastructure in place, typical politician window dressing.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Not really: mature adults expect to be paid well for paced work output whilst the young are still enthusiastic enough to put in extra unpaid effort for their own interest. They are quickly dissuaded of this approach though by the establishment. It's a real tragedy, because the young show what society could be like when money is not the be-all-end-all driving force.
It is incredible to me that a young man, during the years he finished high school and started university was able to build a website that provides a vastly superior overview of the largest national infrastructure project in this nations history, than the GBE rolling out the project.
Interestingly I was at a seminar around a month ago where one of the speakers was from NBNCo. When people asked about the rollout, the speaker recommended that people look at MyNBN.info as it has better and more up to date information than the NBNCo roll out maps!
I think it may be an euphemism for saying your connection does not work.
Network shortfall is simply 'spin'....fro no service available....
The reason for spin is to hide failure to deliver and most likely hide the RFS stats are claimed without actually being built....
the trigger is ~90% of premises must be able to order (and have installed) a service before a SAM can be declared RFS
It would appear that NBN Co have determined that the infrastructure does not need to be completed to commence ordering with the RSP ...you just have to wait a long(er) time ie 'Network Shorfall status" is the interim period between concept design and actual service availablity....but NBN CO can claim the RFS stats for senior management and pollies to broadcast achievement of target forecasts.... /S (that's a big /S)
Just another example of how the Lib's NBN policy is possibly the worst commercial decision of all time...
From the Labor Thread � a user has a voice and ADSL fault in an FTTN area. Telstra check to the pillar, all good. Now NBN needs to investigate and fix the pillar to user fault.
Telstra are laughing all the way to the bank! Free maintenance!
But it also highlights � what happens to people who need a phoneline? The elderly, the medical priority? What do they do when FTTN comes around?
What do they do when FTTN comes around?
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less.
I think Dreyfus will go directly after Fizzbull'ss litigious ass.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a reaction at least to the news today that 80+% of Australians want an ICAC type body created at Federal level to deal with corruption at that level....
A promise from Labor to create that with NBN at the forefront would be a good start....
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less.
With FTTP there is a solution built into the network design (and Telstra hold a contract to transition phone only customers to FTTP, including going into homes and rewiring existing phone points to the UNI-V)... with FTTN it's in the too hard basket.
oops missed half the post I responded to
In the case of Telstra it is Murphy's law of the patch and to deny there is an issue with its infrastructure and implement the bare necessity to keep the copper functioning keeping the twisties network in place as long as possible...
Just another example of how the Lib's NBN policy is possibly the worst commercial decision of all time...
From the Labor Thread � a user has a voice and ADSL fault in an FTTN area. Telstra check to the pillar, all good. Now NBN needs to investigate and fix the pillar to user fault.
Telstra are laughing all the way to the bank! Free maintenance!
So if you had flaky ADSL2+ from the beginning. When your area is RFS. Never sign up to FTTN. Keep hassling telstra for line remediation until its fixed. Hopefully they raise it with MTMCo and it gets fixed.
Then reassess whether its worthwhile to cut over to FTTN. By then if your line was fixed you should probably see a slightly better ADSL2+ service to decide whether its worth it to switch.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a reaction at least to the news today that 80+% of Australians want an ICAC type body created at Federal level to deal with corruption at that level....
Both major political parties have stated at various times that they don't want a federal ICAC...might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
Not sure if this has been posted, but is a good reflection of the differences between the original NBN and the Coalitions MTM.
might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
So true and for LNP the NBN would be top of the list....we certainly wouldn't be getting the rubbish we get IMO
It may become a political tool however, they would get more disciplined, wouldn't they?
might be too many skeletons and dodgy deals in both their closets.
Even more reason to do it.
If we are left with no politicians then so be it.
LNP masters of a con and fiction.
I watched Turnbull today stand in front of the banner material and keep referring to the Economic Plan time and time again.
With memories of the pre 2013 NBN Plan I thought I'd check what was in The Economic Plan with reference to NBN. I went on the LNP website and couldn't find an actual document called the Economic Plan but found an item that listed the items on it (with donate tabs on each issue. The above Fifield tweet is all that is there �
If this is the ECONOMIC PLAN for NBN then it cannot be called a plan. If the whole lot (perhaps six pages at best(?) is the overall Economic Plan then it is a nothing document IMO. If the public have a perception that it contains anything of substance they are sadly misguided. It is worse than Abbott's was and we know what that was worthwith regards to implementation......de ja vue???
If we are left with no politicians then so be it.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
Something like the original Overland Telegraph line I believe was basicaly built by the the Industry Experts at the time. So it can be done. I would think there would be more recent examples of decent infrastructure being built without any political footballing.
If you look at The Sydney Harbour Bridge, Copper Can, Snowy Mountain Scheme etc. the thing they have in common is that the Liberals all thought they weren't needed.
Just like the nbn � history will show how wrong they were.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
I can, it was the original NBN, or was there a /s that i missed? forgive me but im sick :/
Im hoping that this swing towards indis will put FTTP back on the table, if Labor cant get up.
I thought I'd check what was in The Economic Plan with reference to NBN.
the plan??? did it go something like this? jobs and growth, jobs and growth, jobs and growth, LABOR BAAADDDD NBN BBAAAAADDDD jobs and growth... blah
I loved the way the caretaker PM use Engineers Australia to sell his pseudo-innovation plan by trying to piggy-back of the Engineers Australia branding, all the while doing everything he can to ensure that Australia remains an online connected backwater!
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
"Support us or no funding for you".....
Im hoping that this swing towards indis will put FTTP back on the table, if Labor cant get up.
That will only work if it gets the ALP to complete the NBN as originally designed, or for the LNP to abandon its stance and embrace the original NBN plan.
The hard truth is that a handful of independents is not going to change anything. They might hold some sway for a period of time and be an annoyance but ultimately they will not change the way political parties run government.
I'm surprised that EA was prepared to be used like that.
Not, only was it disappointing from that point of view but a lack of mention to anything like NBN infrastructure etc being part of 'exciting' future, the verbal garbage and over statement re girls girls girls was embarrassing. I could imaging most young girls/women hearing his spin would have, as presumably intelligent people, walked away saying 'what a dork..." (or the equivalent these days ). Where was the substance?...just fluff, EA would be disappointed no doubt.
NBN is a critical part to their future domestically and internationally. Already a large part of engineering for big Miners and Oil and Gas is done overseas, at least some capability to communicate with Australia would be appreciated. The stuff that moves head offices overseas....brain drain overseas is not what these girls/young women want to hear.
That will only work if it gets the ALP to complete the NBN as originally designed, or for the LNP to abandon its stance and embrace the original NBN plan.
Unfortunately it's too late for that, unless they plan to rip out all the nodes & associated equipment that have/being installed in the FTTN areas.
Like the Irish Government are about to legislate, when is the Australian Federal Coalition going to change their NBN/MTM policy, NBN Strategy, and SOE to NBNCo, to provide a legally enforceable right for home and business owners to be provided with minimum speeds of at least 25Mbps (including during peak hours) from their RSP's?
At the moment their is no right or even guarantees of minimum speeds that Australian homes and business must be able to get for their broadband 24*7.
https://www.siliconrepublic.
unlike the UK, which has stopped at 10Mbps as a minimum standard, the USO will need to serve home and business owners in Ireland for the next 30 or 40 years and that 30Mbps is the baseline.
�We want to ensure people have access to broadband as a right,� Naughten said. �I want it as an enforceable right.�
Where was the substance?...just fluff, EA would be disappointed no doubt.
Exactly. It was certainly cringeworthy.
The disappointing thing is that EA is a Non-Profit Organisation and gets $0 funding from any government. They did not need it, but have allowed themselves to be used.
Unfortunately it's too late for that, unless they plan to rip out all the nodes & associated equipment that have/being installed in the FTTN areas.
Well, if Australia wants to be taken seriously, it will have to.
The politicians talk about leaving future generations to pay the debt. Well what about leaving them that debt anyway and then the requirement that THEY will have to correct things????
They (indies) might hold some sway for a period of time and be an annoyance but ultimately they will not change the way political parties run government.
Well if Windsor gets in he is pro NBN clearly as are any Greens and Wilkie I believe is pissed off at what happened to Tasmania's promise for FTTP, so there are 4 votes to add to ALP. There could well be a couple of Xenophon's succeed as well s there could be 6 indies favouring NBN. Add Katter to the mix who probably wouldn't support NBN... Possible 7 indies.
LNP need 76 seats to govern in own right and (ref ABC Calculator ) 50.1% Lib vote is minimum LNP need to retain power with all predicted 4 indies supporting them. 50.6% Lab vote give them govt in their own right and 50.2% Lab has indies involved. That's with only 4 indies predicted by ABC. By current polls even a 50/50 vote may save NBN. There are variables that can throw that out like the $1.6B LNP have already thrown as pork barrel to marginal seats during election campaign mostly in South Aust/Qld.
On those figures though the senate looks like it could be worse for LNP and how that affects NBN depends, but HoR is real key for NBN. Interestingly, the joint sitting due to Double Dissolution may backfire with likely minority in overall total to LNP. I'd bet it won't happen at all......egg on face...unless LNP have majority.
If you look at The Sydney Harbour Bridge, Copper Can, Snowy Mountain Scheme etc. the thing they have in common is that the Liberals all thought they weren't needed.
Just like the nbn � history will show how wrong they were.
I have never voted for the LNP and will never vote them in my lifetime. Leopard never changes their spot, they are anti-everything, attack labor, attack NBN, attack students, attack pensioners and attack the poor. One thing they support Businesses and Big businesses (aka, their rich mates).
But when you ask them to come up with something and execute. They make things worse, setting us backwards as a nation. The MTM is one of the biggest examples. Its time for the nation to get educated and actually vote them out for good. Their values do not align with fair go Australia, everyone deserves a fair go.
Their plan and repeating. "Jabs" and "Glooat". Yep, give labor a few uppercut jabs, and gloat how well they are managing the economy. Except everything points to the contrary.
Id prefer this, and we could have independent bodies formed by those in the academia/industry/industry bodies to make decisions, not politicians who have vested interests.
This seems like a simpsons episode if i recall correctly... They had issues with their opinions but eh would be enjoyable to see
the plan??? did it go something like this? jobs and growth, jobs and growth, jobs and growth, LABOR BAAADDDD NBN BBAAAAADDDD jobs and growth... blah
Funny how Labors NBN could provide jobs
Funny how Labors NBN could provide jobs
They aren't jobs powered by coal though � everyone knows that green tech/the internet aren't real!
A real NBN could provide so many innovative jobs � but the LNP don't want to invest in something that displeases Rupert.
I was over in the Central Coast thread with a bit of a discussion happening about nodes being declared RFS yet no one can seem to connect due to the mystery "network shortfall"
will just pick on area and list the nodes in it with connection stats courtesy of Finder
you can do your own analysis starting here http://www.finder.com.au/nbn-tracker/sa/2WOY
ADA ID Technology Premises # Serviceable^ Connected^
2WOY-13-01 copper 291 291 (High) 20 (Low)
2WOY-13-02 copper 195 194 (High) 20 (Low)
2WOY-13-03 copper 202 202 (High) 13 (Low)
2WOY-13-04 copper 179 179 (High) 23 (Low)
2WOY-13-05 copper 106 106 (High) 6 (Low)
2WOY-13-06 copper 316 315 (High) 25 (Low)
2WOY-13-07 copper 139 139 (High) 10 (Low)
2WOY-13-08 copper 117 117 (High) 0 (None)
2WOY-13-09 copper 40 40 (High) 2 (None)
2WOY-13-10 copper 101 101 (High) 3 (None)
2WOY-13-11 copper 81 81 (High) 10 (Low)
2WOY-13-13 copper 68 68 (High) 0 (None)
not sure of the dates of the data, but the numbers look outstanding not sure if I need to add this /s
I was over in the Central Coast thread with a bit of a discussion happening about nodes being declared RFS yet no one can seem to connect due to the mystery "network shortfall"
After looking through a significant number of SAMs in the recent activations list I am pretty sure the data jxeeno is using is lagging reality.
Every SAM I checked on the recent activation list with a RFS date later than April 1 2016 returned a SC0 / SC10 value of 100%. Perhaps this data is only updated quarterly in the sources he is using?
Now this doesn't address the 'network shortfall' issue, which may be related to another issue I have discovered. I simply had not read any of the Service Class designations other than the ones I was directly interested in.
Service Class 11- the location is serviceable by copper, copper lead-in required
EDIT: I forgot to add the redundant WTF???
From your 2WOY serving area you can see the following.
Service Class 11 = 8,681 (28%)
This information does not come from an official nbnTM website, however, it is my understanding that the underlying data is from nbnTM indirectly via 'unknown sources'.
however, it is my understanding that the underlying data is from nbnTM indirectly via 'unknown sources.'
AFP RAID !!!
They would have had a similar issue with FTTP, but it is a problem none the less
No, there is no such problem with FTTP switch-over. When I got FTTP, the fibre was physically connected for about three weeks before NBN and the ISP got it actually working. In the mean time I still had a working ADSL and phone. It was only when the FTTP connection was operational (green light on) that I switched my router over. No disruption of any services!
Duplicate � Sorry.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need...
That would have been the NBN, as planned and commenced by NBN Co.
'An nbn', aka MTM, sounds more like a Turnbull perversion, as proposed to be delivered by his nbn�.
Imagine an nbn built by industry experts for what we actually need....
Wait, I remember this one time, prior to 2013, when they did exactly that...Or wake me up 'cause I'm dreaming.
But it also highlights � what happens to people who need a phoneline? The elderly, the medical priority? What do they do when FTTN comes around?
According to nbn, they should get a Telstra mobile. If they have a Medtronic Carelink style product, they should exchange it for the 3G version (only an additional $50/month to your health provider)
If you have a fall alert device, then that is another 3G service also.
nbn have stated that voip over FTTN is unreliable.
nbn have stated that voip over FTTN is unreliable.
Ah hmm jeez where have i heard that VOIP IS reliable... hmm i think the first word began with a F and the last word started with a H. Ah yes Fibre to the Home.
So many services we will be missing out on :(
According to nbn, they should get a Telstra mobile.
ooops is this another "kick back" for the free copper?
Interesting the Q+A in Tamworth on rural issues is repeating returning to the NBN.
And Windsor (yay!) stood up and said "Do it once, do it right, do it with fibre".
Plenty of NBN discussion on Q & A tonight. Barnaby Joyce and Tony Windsor with others. Subject has come up a number of times and Barnbay is the lone voice in the room. He rattled out the $30billion more, 8 years more, 25/5 is enough, noone has ordered more than 100/40, etc almost all in one sentence.
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
edit:
no comments for ages then three in a minute :)
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
It shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions. Windsor is right to say do it once etc... It's the only way it can be done properly in these areas. If they get FTTN, they won't get FTTP for decades, if at all. FTTP had the potential to fill in a lot of holes in services in terminal Australia. Windsor needs to keep pushing.
Subject has come up a number of times and Barnbay is the lone voice in the room. He rattled out the $30billion more, 8 years more, 25/5 is enough, noone has ordered more than 100/40, etc almost all in one sentence.
The audience is certainly asking all the right questions this time. I really do wish that someone would raise Barnabys previous support for FTTP and his claim labor stole his policy.
Q&A is coming from Tamworth tonight. The NBN is getting quite a lot of coverage. It looks like poor old Barnaby is the only one on the panel who supports the MTM. I don't like the "do it once ... etc" thing but Tony Windsor got a big cheer when he said it :)
Where can i watch this piece of footage, would love to see it.
Where can i watch this piece of footage, would love to see it.
hopefully it should be up on iView tomorrow
edit:- and here is the link http://iview.abc.net.au/progr
It shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions.
It always has been important. I was going to say Tony Windsor is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool but I think it would be more accurate to say Barnaby Joyce is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool.
Windsor is right to say do it once etc... It's the only way it can be done properly in these areas.
Possibly. I don't like ruling out the use of FTTB/dp in MDUs to speed up the roll out. Then come back and do FTTP in those MDUs later. I think that stands in all areas.
If they get FTTN, they won't get FTTP for decades, if at all.
FTTN is not an interim solution on the way to FTTP. The only place I think it might have is in regional towns that are not getting FTTP where exchange-based VDSL might be a good solution to take the load off wireless.
It always has been important. I was going to say Tony Windsor is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool but I think it would be more accurate to say Barnaby Joyce is making Barnaby Joyce look a fool.
Everyone made Barnaby look like an idiot. He even got the tomato happening at some stages he was so flustered. I just wish someone would have nailed him about his previous advocacy of FTTP. There would be no comeback from that, and the room would have given him a serve.
Possibly. I don't like ruling out the use of FTTB/dp in MDUs to speed up the roll out. Then come back and do FTTP in those MDUs later. I think that stands in all areas. MDUs are largely irrelevant in the regions. The majority of premises are single dwellings. Windsor gets a lot of support for his stance for good reason.
FTTN is not an interim solution on the way to FTTP.
It needs to be done once, and done right.
obviously Joyce has a selective memory and has seldom bothered to research his original policy trying to change tact in fttp support
obviously Joyce has a selective memory
Well he can't say FTTP has any merit as that would put a huge kink in the LNP campaign. His only hope of staying deputy PM is to toe the party line. Just goes to show how many scruples most politicians have.
toeing the party line means the commitment of political suicide and more than likely face a gaol cell if not the firing squad for treason against the country...
sad to say i suspect Malcolm will be leaving the country to remove himself from facing any commission regarding his time former opspokesman on comms, to eventually comms minister now within the seat of prime minister which he was not elected for and passing the same fate labor did previous election cycle they should went to the polls when the fool took office..
i doubt joyce has even looked at the commissioned papers regarding the current state of australias communication network, never mind sully his own fingers of malcs farce without himself liable supporting this political pissing contest of factually fraudulent facts...
It was a great episode � lots if questions about the nbn,
It shows it is an election issue.
What you wont read in the unaustralian.
Q&A: Barnaby Joyce and Tony Windsor trade blows on mining and national broadband network
A woman from a farm 20km from Tamworth asked why she had telecommunications �equivalent of a third world� with no TV reception, mobile and no fixed line.
The loudest cheers came for Windsor�s slogan on the National Broadband Network, �do it once, do it right, do it with fibre�.
t was a great episode � lots if questions about the nbn,
Darn, I didn't know it was on and even if it was I didn't really know "NBN" was going to be mentioned in Q&A for once.
Anyway I haven't got time now to watch the Q&A Video right now but it looks like the latest one was uploaded to Iview 9 hours ago. Check it out if you missed it like i did.
http://iview.abc.net.au/prog
Have a read of the comments too. When I last looked probably half the comments were about the NBN. None of them were favourable to Joyce's stance.
Have a read of the comments too. When I last looked probably half the comments were about the NBN
More than half.. A big issue in new England.
Comments said : bye bye Barnaby..
no such problem with FTTP switch-over
Understood, The switch over is fine, but what about after? I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP.
The loudest cheers came for Windsor�s slogan on the National Broadband Network, �do it once, do it right, do it with fibre�.
I was a little annoyed that Jones cut the responses short on this.
Nevertheless, I got a sense there is an elephant in the room and it is about to get upset.
just had my voice phone line fixed after reporting a fault
- Yesterday Telstra checked exchange to the pillar, then as it was ok tho there they put a job into nbn� to fix the pillar to network boundary point
- worker wearing a nbn� vest turns up and starts checking the fault after having done some prep work at the pilllar by replacing the jumpers, removing a "battery" and some other tidying up.
- worker is actually employed by Telstra
- I am informed if the fault is in my aerial lead in he cannot replace it as neither nbn� workers or Telstra workers now have access to poles to work on aerial junctions or anchor points due to the transfer of ownership of the assets (this could be due to the privatisation of the poles and wires in NSW) and NO agreement between nbn� and AUSGRID for climbing poles all that work has to be scheduled and done from a bucket truck at a later date
- luckily my fault is between the point of attachment onto the house and the first socket
oh what a wonderful scheme Dear Leader Malcolm Turnbull has given us, especially for those of us with FTTN in an AUSGRID area and maybe other areas as well
the man is so egotistical that he even has his initials on the nbn� branding, of course either in keeping with his plan the initials are backwards or are like you do a school roll, surname first
just had my voice phone line fixed after reporting a fault
Faster and cheaper � YEAH RIGHT!
What a shambles!
If we were getting FTTP it wouldn't matter � we could roll it out and there would't be any issues with lead-ins etc.
staying deputy PM is to toe the party line
Not quite � that position goes to the leader of the Nationals in a Liberal/silage coalition, so it's not the Liberal line he needs to follow. What the voters in Tamworth need to ask themselves is where *were* the National party when Barnardy's preferred option was being lied about then dismantled by Clownshoes and Lord Verdigris...:-(
Understood, The switch over is fine, but what about after? I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP.
It was a storm in a tea cup.
I was refering more to the curfuffel around the in-home backup battery to power home phones on FTTP
In my case battery backup is provided with the NTD. I think this became optional for later fttp installations. Like most people I use VOIP and not the UNI-V port for my phone connection. For emergency calls during long power failures I would use my mobile. This has not been necessary in my three years of FTTP (no power failures and no network failures). I would think that medical monitoring could be switched to mobile when necessary, but am not sure. For me and the vast majority of fttp users � no curfuffel whatsoever!
Not NBN directly but this sums up the "your home doesn't need those speeds" argument -
EEF members' main concerns for broadband are that it's cost effective, reliable, and resilient, as well as future proof. Speed doesn't factor into it nearly as much.
Full report �
more than likely face a gaol cell if not the firing squad for treason against the country...
Ridiculous hyperbole like that really detracts from your points
Stats are in on most important things for voters.
It was a storm in a tea cup.
Indeed, but there was a lot of noise about it.
no curfuffel whatsoever!
It was at the time. I'd prefer not to have a home phone at all.
Their plan and repeating. "Jabs" and "Glooat". Y
Just use "Slobs and sloth." inste�d of "Jobs and growth.
Indeed, but there was a lot of noise about it.
So alot of noise about a solved probelm. However: there is no noise about the Telstra HFC not having any battery backup at all � and no plans to install it. And this will be a significant part of the population. What happens to medical priority in these areas?
https://delimiter.com.au/201
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
�It�s a shame we weren�t able to show Senator Fifield some of the success stories unfolding here for those businesses that have already been connect to the NBN,� he said.
Fong continued to say that those parts of Ballarat that have been provided with the high-speed fibre-based FTTP version have already benefitted greatly from the NBN rollout.
�Businesses there are now able to undertake tasks never before possible,� Fong said. �The parts of our city that have FTTP provide a benchmark for operational delivery of high speed NBN services across regional Australia.�
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
Chair of the group, George Fong, said he was �bemused� that the Minister did not make the time to catch up with local stakeholders, despite being in his hometown of Ballarat at the time, and following multiple requests for a meeting.
�This would have been the ideal opportunity for the minister to speak first hand to people who need fast broadband and have the evidence to prove it, and to hear their stories not the filtered reports ministers traditionally receive�, Fong said.
Ahhh but Fifield would have had to listen to the inconvenient truth if he'd attended, wouldn't he.
Ahhh but Fifield would have had to listen to the inconvenient truth if he'd attended, wouldn't he.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
They keep banging on about cost and time overruns and yet their own network has these.
People don't care about this � all they want is working internet fast enough to last well into the future.
FTTN cannot give us this.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
It certainly is. There are lots of angry internet users out there who have woken up to Turnbull and is fraudband con.
This is fast becoming a rather large issue for the LNP.
Just finished watching Q&A from last night.
The LNP seem to be ignoring the groundswell of support for a proper FTTP nbn.
Let's hope people back it up, when it's time to vote!
So alot of noise about a solved probelm
Yes, a lot of noise 5+ years ago, sheesh where were you guys then?
Just saw MT announce the next debate will be streamed on news.com.au and Facebook.
Somehow, this could backfire with the pathetic NBN Internet speeds being experienced!
Yes, a lot of noise 5+ years ago, sheesh where were you guys then?
I was here.. However, it was always planned to have battery backup available � which made the arguments seem nonsensical.
Now � for most, its not even going to be an option.. Wait until my die hard liberal voting family find out that they are going to have to forkout moolah to come up with a solution for my Grandmothers Call Alert system. Its battery backed up, but the network its going to be connected to wont be.
Just finished watching Q&A from last night.
The LNP seem to be ignoring the groundswell of support for a proper FTTP nbn.
Let's hope people back it up, when it's time to vote!
It really is beginning to seem the libs are too proud to admit they made a mistake with fttn and will hold to the script, even at the expense of the election.
edit:
no comments for ages then three in a minute :)
I'd bet those NBN leakages might draw a comment from Joyce to Jones as he walked out which might have taken the form of ....how's your ABC budget looking Tony.....? Could get a lot worse you know...I'm in a positon of influence, got mates in high places you know (as he reminded everyone a few times) ...
t shows how important the NBN is rural and regional Australia. The questioners are asking all the right questions.
And the LNP are clearly not listening, certainly not about NBN, from Joyce's answers.
And the LNP are clearly not listening, certainly not about NBN, from Joyce's answers.
Joyce has a problem with his perceptions � Turnbull.
Turnbull has a problem with his perceptions � the liberal parties' right wing members.
Labor and LIberal/National parties have a problem � the two party preferred system.
Tony Windor's closing comment said it all. "From 1901, for the first 20 years of the federal government, we had no parties and everything worked fine". (So did the Gillard hung Parliament � more legislation passed than any other.)
Get behind the independents � but not so far behind as to render them useless.
�Businesses there are now able to undertake tasks never before possible,� Fong said. �The parts of our city that have FTTP provide a benchmark for operational delivery of high speed NBN services across regional Australia.
�It�s a shame we weren�t able to show Senator Fifield some of the success stories unfolding here for those businesses that have already been connect to the NBN,�
If Fifield doesn't see or hear it then it doesn't exist...right?
Chair of the group, George Fong, said he was �bemused� that the Minister did not make the time to catch up with local stakeholders, despite being in his hometown of Ballarat at the time, and following multiple requests for a meeting.
This confirms the 'small target' strategy of the LNP across the board. Residents of Ballarat and surrounds should be reading in their local papers and seeing on TV media that Fifield squibbed the opportunity to tell them why FTTN/MTM is so good for them and not FTTP...
Getting the FTTP message to electors is the major problem...
On the matter about having a fixed line phone with FTTP instead of using mobile, I want to speak of my own experience.
Yes, I could use mobile, but I don't like using it. I find the service patchy and often is hard to hear. I have had several mobile phones and haven't found one I like using. I have it up as loud as it goes on speaker and it's not good enough.
There is also an issue of calling some company or government service and being placed on call waiting for 30-60 minutes. It's a pain to have to hold the mobile close enough to hear when I finally get someone to talk to. Whereas using the fixed line I can use the speaker phone, which is loud enough to be heard and I don't have to hold it to my ear. Also, I can get the fixed line call rate much cheaper than using the mobile in this way, which charges continuously.
This may seem like silly piffle to others but it matters to me, and it's why I always option a VOIP service when I move into a rental with FTTP. The main pest is finding the owner has had the NTD placed in the garage where it's useless and I get the expense of having cabling run into the house.
Just saw MT announce the next debate will be streamed on news.com.au and Facebook.
Somehow, this could backfire with the pathetic NBN Internet speeds being experienced!
Lame excuse for not going on Q&A etc, wants to present an 'innovative' debate....
Now, if everyone goes online at the same time and everyone gets bbbbuuuuuffff ......eeeeerrrreeeeedddd that could be pretty embarrassing eh?
No doubt a moderator will vet online questions and those asking... 'why can't I follow the debate because of buffering'... won't get through....
Tony Windor's closing comment said it all. "From 1901, for the first 20 years of the federal government, we had no parties and everything worked fine".
It does appear to me that the party system is a significant problem. I see the same thing existing from what I know about the US and UK as well. When the parties establish dominance it means MPs are less responsive to the electorate and power is controlled by a few hidden controllers of party policy.
We are further handicapped in Australia by the two party preferred system, in that even if you put an independent or small party as #1, if that one doesn't get enough votes your vote will go to whichever big party is next in line on your ballot. As a result Liberal or Labor still get the vote, even if you don't want them to.
If Fifield doesn't see or hear it then it doesn't exist...right?
see no fibre
speak no fibre
say no fibre
the 3 Liberal monkeys
sadly backpaw i have read past the political spiel of the last 20 odd years, to the point i already know anyone riding on the curt tails of turnbull will not see office if by some miracle the lnp retain offfice if or when the federal royal commission is held i suspect a lot of lnp party faithful will face the docks..
6CAN customers are getting lucky... thanks to failure it seems.
There's quite a few getting free upgrades...must be election time !! Must keep customers happy at all cost.
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
It does appear to me that the party system is a significant problem.
Should ban party politics. It doesn't work. To much power play, corruption and abuse .
Ambitious But Rubbish writes...
We are further handicapped in Australia by the two party preferred system, in that even if you put an independent or small party as #1, if that one doesn't get enough votes your vote will go to whichever big party is next in line on your ballot. As a result Liberal or Labor still get the vote, even if you don't want them to.
This is why you have to work out who will be the last two in the battle for the seat and make sure you put the one you do not want to get in LAST. Don't worry about how to vote cards.
There is nothing more sobering for a politician that to lose his/her seat.
The NBN is such a way of getting the candidates to start listening.
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