. Irony is such a cruel master.
Yup and sadly the consumers are the ones who are getting bite marks from it.
:0<
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Brilliant job NN
I can just envisage the Labor press announcement of their official NBN policy.
Get the media in place, and then as an entree to the policy announcement with all of the press cameras rolling and microphones on, use at least all of the main points that Nigel raised to destroy the credibility of both NBN Co Management, Turnbull & Fifield and supporting team of the Federal Coalition's NBN/MTM. And whilst there at it, raise the issues of why many people are only connecting at 25/5 or less speeds, because of the way major RSP's are marketing speeds, combined with how NBN Co is pricing speeds and all the inherent issues with the FTTN/B transition period and examples of disconnections, line disruptions and the multitude of stuff ups with migrations and connections to FTTN from poor SLA's and systems between NBNCo and the RSP's, or the inability of NBNCo or the RSP's and all their various contractors and their subcontractors to train enough workers for the NBN Rollout. Plus add in the appalling FoD/Technology change program. All before Labor announces it's NBN policy.
The damage to the Federal Coalition from the resulting publicity from the entree to the NBN Policy might cost the Federal Coalition what they require to maintain power after the election, and as a minimum require them to immediately address and be honest about what is really going in with the FTTN.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Great interview on ABC NerdyNigel, very good mate. They might get you on as a regular commentator. :-)
So we need to compare to Labor's plans.
What are the Coalition's plans? 25Mbps to all by 2016?
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem
It's lucky for you that nbn� are so transparent, isn't it... can't have facts to prove how badly it's going, can we.
it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
So you admit that the Coalition have stuffed up and are unwilling to address their failures?
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
No party � speak for the LNP, don't think the ALP don't have a plan to fix it.
They have not revealed what they are going to do yet.
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Thanks for mentioning uploads.
Very apt term "Regret capital" of FTTN nodes.
We're in the middle of an election. So we need to compare to Labor's plans
Comparing means that you are willing to analyse both sides. You aren't interested in that. Besides, this is the Coalition thread. Constantly diverting to Labor has no relevance here.
Nigel was specifically asked how the major parties were going to fix the "network shortfall".
So how are the Libs going to fix it? Its their mess. Labor only need to fix Turnbulls mess if they get into power, and you can discuss how they are going to do that in a different thread.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
You are partly right. The Libs are definitely unwilling to fix their mess. I am not sure you meant to admit that though.
Thanks BM. Was rather nerve racking.
If you get the opportunity again as far as NBN policy is concerned you can refer people to LNPs Our Economic Plan or Fifield's tweet...one and the same morsel of rubbish. It demonstrates the complete lack of sincerity of this LNP govt to building a National Broadband Network infrastructure...not a road, so not worth anything to them...
It also demonstrates they have no idea of the contribution a real NBN can have to Innovation, Health, Education, the whole economy etc � more than just for emails.
Anyone else in Nigel's situation might want to, if they have the opportunity, to make comparative reference to the reality of a premises on one side of the road having FTTP and the other side directly opposite having FTTN. I use the example of a house owner with FTTP and his/her business on FTTN.
Comparing what each costs and what each delivers, currently as is the reality for me I pay $89/mth for 100/40 FTTP. For most part FTTN offers 25/5 for similar cost. I get near enough to consistent 100/40 (I get what I pay for) whereas real life experience with FTTN build right now as posted on Whirlpool threads is you get anything to nothing at whatever time of day/night � if you can get connected at all. One then needs to consider what are the upgrade paths...and who pays for the upgrades and how.
One of the many nodes that has just gone in here, has had a brand new second pillar installed to service it (the short one on the right) http://i.imgur.com/53R3OHU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/UsqrVL0.jpg
This is a node that has 5 other nodes a block away from it (pretty sure this pillar is not to service those other nodes, they all have their own pillar already)
And a couple of blocks away, another brand new pillar to go with it's skyscraper node http://i.imgur.com/GSqJ84f.png
If it's a problem with the system
No if about it Kingy, read the FTTN threads or even a couple of posts I have linked directed to you for a response/comment.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Way too many to just a process problem � it is total failure. It was reported on ABC radio that Telstra (not NBN Co) announced they and NBN CO had agreed to stop rollout of FTTN until they had "worked out what the problems were...". Quite an admission they have no clues.
What should be done....Do FTTP it is proven success in all facets....
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
And you should know it is a problem and where it exists without asking posters here to inform you and do your work for you.
No if about it Kingy, read the FTTN threads or even a couple of posts I have linked directed to you for a response/comment.
Probably conveniently ignored it.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero).
A large portion of that was what has become FTTB which it took Turnbull over two years to get going, deadline after deadline missed and reset � he failed miserably yet you point the finger at Labor...?? He also screwed up with TPG access by trying to be too smart. Your hero??
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
Success is doubling teh cost ??? contractors just love Turnbull eh? Another admission of failure...??
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Yes its a problem and they should scrap it asap...only real solution
https://delimiter.com.au/201
FTTN still causing massive outages in Newcastle, says Labor
residents in early stage rollout areas in locations such as Newcastle have previously reported substantial problems with the technology.
This morning Shadow Regional Communications Minister Stephen Jones told the Broadband in the Bush Forum in Queensland that the problems were continuing. Click here to download the full speech in Word Doc format.
Jones said a resident of the Newcastle suburb of Belmont had recently revealed that the FTTN connection she had received was slower than the ADSL connection it replaced.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem
You have been advised of threads to see the reality for yourself. You obviously choose not to, so end of responses Kingy...wasting everyone's time again...
Not only do people have trouble proving
They've just linked to some examples � you ignored them (as usual).
Jones said a resident of the Newcastle suburb of Belmont had recently revealed that the FTTN connection she had received was slower than the ADSL connection it replaced.
No say it aint so.
The MTM is absolutely perfect we don't need a fibre network.
/sarcky
Talk about monumental screw ups on a high scale.
Thanks Abbott and Turnbull for creating this I wouldn't even spit on it if it was on fire MTM nonsense.
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Do you backup your points with facts and references?
Why do you care so much, its a non-issue right? Are you desperate?
The FTTN is a mess, the numbers are all fudged up and the LNP is trying to cover its tracks.
If the LNP can put out so much misinformation, then we are well in our rights to say whatever we want. BTW what we say is pretty close to the truth. We see through the shenanigans presented by the LNP.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
That's an odd response.
First, you are are only concerned if it is a serious problem.
Next, you are not bothered because no party is willing to do anything about it. Well, one party is actually entrenching the problem for future generations because it is actively pursuing a policy and plan that builds the problem in and continues with it.
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises.
Talking about misleading and deceptive conduct, it is my view that NBN Co places the RSPs at risk of breaching the Australian Consumer Law on section 18.
The problem is that NBN Co and the LNP wants us to believe that FTTN is just as good as FTTP speed and reliability wise.
To limit their risk, RSPs got smart and sell first a lower speed and then upgrade the speed when the line results are clear at the End User's end. This move limits their risk of breaching section 18. They are not prepared to sell that Rolls Royce Lemon which has been cooked up by NBN Co and Co. as a Rolls Royce.
Practically, it undermines the political argument that FTTN is a suitable replacement for FTTP and all we need. It is rather interesting that the interests of NBN Co and the LNP are opposite to the interests of the RSPs, yet the RSPs sell the service and not NBN Co or the LNP. It appears that the RSPs are getting caught in the middle, while the End Users slowly discover what a cat in a bag is sold to them.
Obviously "pushing" End Users on lower speeds, obfuscates the demand and it also provides again a false argument to NBN Co and the LNP that higher speeds are not required. *)
In the meanwhile ACCC staff is running around in the hallways, fingers in their ears and shouting as loud as possible "we can't hear you".
In the process Bill Morrow is stating repeatedly that his NBN Co is not responsible for the drop in our internet speed ratings. Perhaps he should wake up to the real world where it is clear that RSPs are not going to take the legal risks of that what the NBN Co and the LNP think are reasonable political risks.
[On edit, added *)]
Jones said a resident of the Newcastle suburb of Belmont had recently revealed that the FTTN connection she had received was slower than the ADSL connection it replaced.
NBN, Turdbull or Liefield will simply state its a rsp congestion issue not NBN faults.
Whilst may be true it is indeed a RSP issue for some (not all) this still tracks back the the cost/demand prices set by NBN.
So in fact it really is NBN fault.
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem
Someone has already pointed out 5CPK3 and 5CPK10 � just check the St. Marys thread, what about Cannington and Newcastle. Is that not proof enough?
Kingy � Why do you always put the onus of proof back on the individual posting, yet you constantly post blatant BS and are never compelled to provide any proof of your own?
Here it is.
That's really good stuff, and you finished with the 25Mbps to everyone by now dig. Beautiful work, Nigel.
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Great interview, mate. Good job.
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Just listened. Good job Nigel.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Hi Kingee ...... deflecting as usual I see.
Can I politely suggest that you head over to the Federal Labor NBN policy thread and see what sort of response you get to your question of Labor fixing up a problem with NBN� whilst we still have the LNP in power?
That'd be fun to watch. I'd get out the popcorn for that ...... and I don't even like popcorn!
The problem is that NBN Co and the LNP wants us to believe that FTTN is just as good as FTTP speed and reliability wise.
And it seems part of that process was making the expensive but otherwise apparently pointless change from NBN Co to nbn�. What other possible reason could lie behind such a decision?
The other vital aspect is financial viability. If we remove FTTP sectors from the equation, it is clear that the HFC/FTTN backbone of MTM won't be able to generate sufficient ROI, because inherent limitations mean the higher speed, higher value tiers envisaged in NBN are simply unavailable.
So the higher OPEX � HFC and FTTN � parts of MTM will be unable to generate sufficient ARPU to ensure the ongoing viability of MTM.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
We can't comment on plans to rectify the issue, due to NBN not stating what "network shortfall" means.
It could be a number of factors.
No techs
No copper link between node and pillar (faulty link)
No Connection list (wiring booklet from Telstra)
No software in place for that RFS area for RSPs to send in activation requests.
Until NBN declares to everyone what Network shortfall actually entails noone can specify a remedy.
*edit
It could be that NBN has run out of funds and can't pay Telstra cutover payments so they're delaying until they receive more revenue.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Just listened to the podcast. Well done Nigel.
Thanks all for the kind comments. It's time that all of us that know better (well most of us) start making noise in the right directions. I'm glad that most of you think I hit some important points but you forever think afterwards that you missed more. I was surprised at the length of time I was allowed to go on for. The NBN has been a building issue here on ABC Radio mornings with Steve Austin. I mentioned to the producer that it was about time that the media started to take notice of the NBN. One thing that was missed in the Soundcloud recording was a recording of the 25Mbps promise made by Abbott before the last election which also drove home my point at the end.
Thanks all for the kind comments.
You sounded nervous which is quite understandable if not used to speaking publicly. Overall you made some good points but I found a bit of confusion with discussion of ADSl 2 at the same time as FFTN. Different issues depending on the case. Unfortunately this is a common confusion, helped by the lack of understanding by the media, in the current debate. I think it would be helpful if any discussion of problems with the FTTN rollout is quarantined to discuss NBN issues not anything to do with the existing services, which may or may not work well depending on where you are. Similar for the issue of maintenance of the current ADSL and POTS service. Once you are on the other side of the story and getting or trying to get a decent service on FTTN/P/FixedW or Skymuster.
I think it would be helpful if any discussion of problems with the FTTN rollout is quarantined to discuss NBN issues not anything to do with the existing services, which may or may not work well depending on where you are.
When the FTTN rollout is impacting on existing services, it absolutely should be discussed.
discussion of ADSl 2 at the same time as FFTN.
I think you missed the point that when you cut over from ADSL to VDSL, if for some reason there is a problem with your FTTN install, you are stuck. You have no phone and no internet until the issue is fixed. Currently there is a long waiting list for technical assistance.
These issues don't exist with FTTP, or did you miss that?
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on
Just before the 2016 election, 100% of the premises cannot order a service on 5CPK except for the lucky few whose FTTP connections had already commenced by 9/13, and, under the LNP appointed board and corporate policy, finally completed a couple of weeks ago
You've got a bit of a nerve asking what Labor will do regarding the LNP's complete botch-up of the network � or are you testing the "It's all Labor's fault' sample loop for when your dissembly gets too much for even the most hardened on LNP supporter ?
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
<Sweetly> Would you like to come around to mine and have a look?
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
Look how that turned out for them � what a crock. By the way Kingy, where is my 25Mbps Fraudband service? It is now 2016 after all.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Replace copper with Fibre � now there's a real plan.
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Within one response � that has to be a record. Surely someone can come up with a bot that tricks Kingy into replying to and arguing with his own posts, and the rest of use can get on with something more worthwhile....
You sounded nervous which is quite understandable if not used to speaking publicly.
Which did not affect the overall performance by the poster.
Within one response � that has to be a record. Surely someone can come up with a bot that tricks Kingy into replying to and arguing with his own posts, and the rest of use can get on with something more worthwhile....
However, in return we get the classic Streisand effect.
Times now get interesting. Labor is starting their push by highlighting the failures in Newcastle. They are pointing out the whole thing is a mess, and its going to be interesting how the Liberals get themselves out of it.
I predict, they'll start with, Its labors fault. Followed by jobs and growth. Followed by policy on the run.
Good times..
First off, welcome back Frank!
Second Its about time Labors finally highlighting problems
https://delimiter.co
Good times..
But Malcolm has a plan that will make us all proud. I'm sure he's decided that all networks are thin at one end, much MUCH thicker in the middle, and then thin again at the far end. That is the plan that he has and which is his, and what it is too.
[With thanks to the Python team]
But Malcolm has a plan that will make us all proud.
he was so proud of his plan that he had his initials added to nbn for all to see the mark he left on it
nbnTurnbullMalcolm
Obviously "pushing" End Users on lower speeds, obfuscates the demand and it also provides again a false argument to NBN Co and the LNP that higher speeds are not required. *)
You mean contrived don't you....? Why else would they have removed the 50 etc speeds from the mix. Its all or nothing with a significant jump in cost between them so most people stay down at 25. Yes, it also saves LNP embarrassment that speeds can't be delivered.
Of course, if you pay for 100 and only get 25 why would you pay for 100...?
http://www.theherald.com.au/
Is he for real? Honestly? Contractors stopped under labor did they? Except they made 750k+ homes where as im not seeing that many on FTTN
�We�ve made a big turnaround. We now have 2.6 million premises where NBN is available and well over one million customers connected.
We are getting it built yet no one can connect to such an inferior service. Well Done Turnbull! So much for Ready for Service.
�It will be fully built in 2019-20.
Definitely not this inferior piece of crap you call infrastructure, just like your failed promise of 25mbps to all by the end of 2016
�It would no longer be able, in my view, to be categorised as an investment as it is now.
We can agree here. As it stands now, you have destroyed any opportunity for decent returns thanks to your choice in technology. Congratulations on doubling the cost of your own MTM and ruining any chance of getting anything back
An early nbn joke on the Chaser, and what a desk. :P
Until NBN declares to everyone what Network shortfall actually entails noone can specify a remedy.
Sorry, the meaning of "Network shortfall" is likely CiC.
NBN Co would likely argue that they do not want to let the market know of any shortage of labor, otherwise existing labor/suppliers or potential new labor/suppliers might use that to their advantage in or when negotiating for work and labor rates.
That irks me seriously..
The Telstra ad is the worst. Picture a family of several members, on several devices, movies , online games etc and then the claim..
"All at the same time"
Just like this southernphone envelope on my desk. Back of it says:
Why switch to nbn?
Enjoy access to faster internet speeds.
Easily handles multiple users online at the same time.
Great I won't have a problem having multiple people on at once and i'll have fast speeds!
So what are they advertising on the front... a 50GB 12/1 plan, so that's faster internet speeds and will easily handle multiple users at once?
Whats on the paper inside... two more 12/1 plans. Sure they say you can go to 25, 50 or 100 but only buried in all the lines of small print at the bottom of which how many people realistically read.....
LNP are banging on again about most people "choosing" 25Mbps or lower, is it any wonder when it's advertised all over the place as "fast internet speeds" "super fast NBN broadband" "lightning fast internet" but the plans offered with those words are only 25/12 if a speed is even indicated at all?
If they already get "super fast broadband" with their plan, why would they want to see about getting even faster... surely super fast will be fast enough...
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