so is that it for the day?
so is that it for the day?
What a day!
http://www.theregister.co.uk
Optus cable can't connect 500,000: NBN CEO Bill Morrow
Actually its 1.9 million in the HFC footprint that currently can't be connected given NBN Co � 3 years after the LNP took control of the Project are yet � to sign up a construction partner in which to provide the lead-ins to these nearly 2 million residents!
So the summary for today is
HFC is in a much worse state than the pessimists around here predicted.
and
Screw Tassie
The rollout of the hybrid-fibre coaxial (HFC) part of the troubled national broadband network is known internally as "Operation Clusterf---", says Labor senator Stephen Conroy.
"I know the internal nickname you've got for the HFC rollout, and it's not fit to actually describe on the public record: Operation Cluster � something," Mr Conroy told NBN chief executive Bill Morrow during a heated exchange at a Senate hearing on Tuesday.
The Turnbull government and the company rolling out its so-called "multi-technology mix"have been under increasing scrutiny over the viability of the HFC part of its network rollout, which uses outdated Telstra and Optus HFC cables (the kind used for receiving Foxtel).
Senator Conroy referred specifically to the Optus HFC network as "a pile of rubbish".
He questioned the NBN boss over the company's ability to meet its overall rollout targets as a result of the problems plaguing the HFC component.
"2.3 million premises [ready for HFC service] by FY18 � they're your numbers, you've published them, and all I'm saying is you haven't found a construction partner yet [for HFC]," Senator Conroy said.
Senator Conroy also questioned Mr Morrow extensively over whether the NBN board had rejected a recommendation from the company to pursue faster fibre-to-the-distribution-point (FTTDP) technology instead of fibre-to-the-node (FTTN) in parts of its rollout as the costs of installing fibre in the network came down.
"Millions of Australians have to get a third-rate network because the board doesn't believe the advice that it's been given by its own executives," Mr Conroy said.
However, Mr Morrow defended the board's decision not to adopt the technology yet, saying an FTTDP rollout had been little more than a "discussion" about 12 months ago.
Opposition communications spokesman Jason Clare said if Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull wasn't so "arrogant", Australians could have faster internet speeds.
"The head of NBN Co today revealed that he has discussed with the NBN board replacing Malcolm Turnbull's second rate copper NBN with a plan to roll out fibre all the way to people's driveway [FTTDP] � meaning much faster internet," Mr Clare said.
"The only reason this hasn't happened yet is because it will prove Malcolm Turnbull was wrong and his copper NBN is a dud."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/technol
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
Xenocaust writes... in the last part
Does anyone else think it was a conscious decision to use "Cheaper and faster" as the buzz phrase for this session instead of the tried and tested "Commercial In Confidence"?
yes, there was quite a bit of coalition "speak" by Bill during today's session.
Anyone would think he was liberal Party Local Member spouting the Party line
I understand that there will be a story on today's proceedings on ABC Lateline. Also, potentially a story on ABC 7:30 today or tomorrow.
The government is right up to its neck in a major crises now that the dam wall has broken on the misleading statements coming out of NBN Co.
The rollout of the hybrid-fibre coaxial (HFC) part of the troubled national broadband network is known internally as "Operation Clusterf---", says Labor senator Stephen Conroy.
HFC stands for Huge Fuster Cluck doesn't it?
The government is right up to its neck in a major crises now that the dam wall has broken on the misleading statements coming out of NBN Co.
Yep, they had better not taunt the Queenstown people into finding their own pathway for fibre. Have you seen the railway they came up with last century?
It's quite remarkable.
I understand that there will be a story on today's proceedings on ABC Lateline. Also, potentially a story on ABC 7:30 today or tomorrow.
Hope it's not a no show like the other stories I waited for the other day..?
I understand that there will be a story on today's proceedings on ABC Lateline. Also, potentially a story on ABC 7:30 today or tomorrow.
If we follow the ABC pattern, they must think Labor is in with a chance this election
If we follow the ABC pattern, they must think Labor is in with a chance this election
They don't want to upset shorten?
The government is right up to its neck in a major crises now that the dam wall has broken on the misleading statements coming out of NBN Co.
Even Fiefield didn't bother to turn up today
So the question has to be asked if this indicates that the Minister has lost confidence in the Board and the Executive to deliver or is simply not interested in how the budget has blown out by nearly $30 billion dollars and the steps being taken to resolve that?
Even Fiefield didn't bother to turn up today
Fifield never attends senate select, and he's not invited either. It's different with Estimates where he is also under scrutiny as the Minister.
Steven should harvest more the fruits of those meetings in my opinion.
Keep a press conference afterwards for example, force NBN Co to be on display, force into defence mode. Really work it media wise to the benefit of Australians.
Q87 covers which larger towns are likely to receive Satellite
Nah, I meant existing ADSL2+ as I can't recall where that needed to be switched off in non fixed line areas (maybe I missed it though).
There is no requirement to no, but if only a few people are left using ADSL on an exchange I would not be surprised if Telstra decommission it or just not repair it when it goes faulty, that is unless the Government are going to provide a subsidy for them to keep it operating.
I just can't see Telstra keeping a loss making DSLAM operating indefinitely.
On the NBN Transit network diagram published by jxeeno, I count about 20 towns in Australia which, on the face of it, will have a non-redundant fibre connection to the transit network.
I also bet in those lactations they have a 'redundant link" but it is in either the same fibre bundle as the main link or a separate fibre bundle in the same trench/pipe run, not a proper diverse redundant path.
Can you recheck the link as this one is broken.
Can you recheck the link as this one is broken.
All good for me? Here's the answer anyway
Queenstown is the biggest town that will be served with satellite. Some other large towns covered by satellite include Halls Creek (WA), Mount Buller (Vic), and Maitland (SA).
As at 1 March 2016, the table below sets out the larger towns expected to be served with satellite. The technology solution is subject to review as the deployment approaches and some towns may include both fixed-line and satellite services in their footprint.
State Town
NSW Wooli
NT Jabiru
QLD Cunnamulla
QLD Normanton
QLD Tara
QLD Taroom
QLD Thursday Island
SA Kimba
SA Port Vincent
SA Stansbury
SA Maitland
TAS Currie
TAS Queenstown
TAS Rosebery
TAS Zeehan
VIC Dinner Plain
VIC Kaniva
VIC Marysville
VIC Mount Buller
VIC Sea Lake
WA Bruce Rock
WA Corrigin
WA Halls Creek
WA Leonora
WA Meekatharra
WA Mount Magnet
WA Onslow
WA Quairading
WA Wyndham
There ain't no ADSL of any variety around here.
Oh, that sucks. But it does exist in Queenstown AIUI which is what NBN Co was responding to.
I am not defending NBN Co, just trying to understand their "logic".
just trying to understand their "logic".
fastest way to end up in the loony bin I am afraid
Here's the answer anyway
pity they didn't include the numbers of premises or connection in each town.
I also use connections as it seems that in business districts they are deploying a greater number of nodes than the pure premises count would require, almost as though they are doing it on a connection basis and not a premises basis they seem to be using in residential areas
fastest way to end up in the loony bin I am afraid
:)
I also use connections as it seems that in business districts they are deploying a greater number of nodes than the pure premises count would require, almost as though they are doing it on a connection basis and not a premises basis they seem to be using in residential areas
What do you think this means? Do you think they are allowing for channel bonding (single service)? Or that there will multiple
services?
The LT cards NBN Co are using support bonding of up to 4 pairs IIRC, they certainly do 2 pairs.
What do you think this means? Do you think they are allowing for channel bonding (single service)? Or that there will multiple
services?
with the shorter distances I think it is multiple connections.
I also think that the planning on FTTN has actually been done on the number of "lines" allocated to an area or in use and not on a per premises basis, even though nbn� keep talking about premises with regards to FTTN
edit: with FTTP you could put 20 phone lines on an NTD using an asterix server or a cloud based VOIP system, but of course you are servrely limited with using a copper "last mile" on the number of lines you can have as well as usable "internet"
in business districts they are deploying a greater number of nodes than the pure premises count would require
I can't speak for everywhere, but certainly in my area the exchange is in the business, and it's filled with lots of really small DAs. Just about every premises within the business district is within 500m of the exchange, but they are deploying at least 4 nodes, probably 6 to service this area.
nbn� don't have the rights to install exchange based vdsl.
The topology of the CAN and it's conduits mean they can't combine these small DAs (at least not without running new copper from the pillar, back to the exchange and then out to the nodes in the field.
FTTP would definitely be cheaper, but real insanity is nbn� deploying business only nodes from which they can never offer a business grade service. It would have been better for everyone had the business district been excised from the rollout.
The topology of the CAN and it's conduits mean they can't combine these small DAs (at least not without running new copper from the pillar, back to the exchange and then out to the nodes in the field.
it hasn't stopped them in other areas doing directional drilling to link pillars with new copper and connect them to a node in "business districts"
pity they didn't include the numbers of premises or connection in each town.
If I get the time I'll lookup in PSMA database
I also think that the planning on FTTN has actually been done on the number of "lines" allocated to an area or in use and not on a per premises basis, even though nbn� keep talking about premises with regards to FTTN
Its pretty clear from the data, I think, that NBN have focused on premises and not on copper pairs for deciding on the scale of an FTTN rollout.
I have been considering placing an order for 5x 100M FTTN services (install cost $1500) to a single premises � do you think I am likely to have problems, if the premises already has that many PSTNs to convert ;)
Unit complex with MDFs are easier a you can pick it up from the MDF and then bundle and share your lines that way.
All very simple and very cheap....
Jason
Its pretty clear from the data, I think, that NBN have focused on premises and not on copper pairs for deciding on the scale of an FTTN rollout.
so why place a 384 connection node in a business location with 36 premises, this was done whilst they were still deploying 192 connection sized nodes?
This is getting far to OT so I guess any debate should be done over in the MTM or VDSL thread
so why place a 384 connection node in a business location with 36 premises, this was done whilst they were still deploying 192 connection sized nodes?
I don't have any reference material for the build, so I am just reversing the numbers.
Its almost the same scaling as 8 Pair EFM, and given the distances its possible they want to develop business products with multiple pair bonding, without needing to deploy fibre.
I suspect DAs in business locations are scaled differently to DAs in residential locations, for the simple fact that there is often not enough pairs to a premises to support 10 phone lines in a residential area anyway.
Some reference material would be handy on this though!
Jason
I suspect DAs in business locations are scaled differently to DAs in residential locations, for the simple fact that there is often not enough pairs to a premises to support 10 phone lines in a residential area anyway.
and wouldn;t this dramatically bring down the average line length per node that nbn� talk about?
300 lines in a business district all of under 100 metres would certinly drop the average a great deal
but yes, a full and upfront disclosure on how they are dimensioning nodes and node placement would be nice.
But I fear that any answer from nbn� on this would entail a great deal of intake of liquid by all reading/watching/listening to that answer
pity they didn't include the numbers of premises or connection in each town.
Turns out I had some time, so with a brief tuning of PSMA indexes, here's the list of towns with addresses records and *clickbait* the results may shock you
NSW WOOLI 629
NT JABIRU 740
QLD NORMANTON 2133
QLD CUNNAMULLA 1128
QLD TARA 2460
QLD TAROOM 1018
QLD THURSDAY ISLAND 1224
SA STANSBURY 769
SA PORT VINCENT 981
SA KIMBA 730
SA MAITLAND 1192
TAS ZEEHAN 867
TAS QUEENSTOWN 1867
TAS CURRIE 672
TAS ROSEBERY 863
VIC MOUNT BULLER 848
VIC DINNER PLAIN 576
VIC KANIVA 714
VIC SEA LAKE 573
VIC MARYSVILLE 636
WA MEEKATHARRA 849
WA QUAIRADING 649
WA BRUCE ROCK 871
WA WYNDHAM 896
WA CORRIGIN 741
WA MOUNT MAGNET 850
WA ONSLOW 698
WA LEONORA 1160
WA HALLS CREEK 1151
So it turns out that Queenstown actually isn't the largest town to be getting satellite. That trophy goes to Tara with 2,460 listed addresses. Please note though this is reliant on PSMA address database. There are no guarantees that these numbers reflect actual buildings and likely to be lower.
NSW WOOLI 629 Population 493 in 2011 http://wooli.localstats.com.a
NT JABIRU 740 Population 1250 � plus 5000 grey nomads in the wet season https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Jabiru
QLD NORMANTON 2133 Population 1100 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normanton,_Queensland
QLD CUNNAMULLA 1128 Population 1200 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunnamulla
QLD TARA 2460 Population 819 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara,_Queensland
QLD TAROOM 1018 Pop 873 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taroom,_Queensland'
QLD THURSDAY ISLAND 1224 This one I can understand. Pop 2610 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
SA STANSBURY 769 Pop 543 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stansbury,_South_Australia
SA PORT VINCENT 981 Pop 472 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
SA KIMBA 730 Pop 636 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimba,_South_Australia
SA MAITLAND 1192 Pop 1056 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimba,_South_Australia
Now to the more relevant ones:
TAS ZEEHAN 867 Pop 728 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeehan,_Tasmania
TAS QUEENSTOWN 1867 Pop 1975 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queenstown,_Tasmania
This one is also pretty easy to understand too, but I'd be curious to know how they get comms now.
TAS CURRIE 672 Pop 746 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currie,_Tasmania
TAS ROSEBERY 863 Pop 1073 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosebery,_Tasmania
VIC MOUNT BULLER 848 Pop 242 (+2000 skiiers in season) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Buller,_Victoria
VIC DINNER PLAIN 576 Pop 143 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner_Plain,_Victoria
VIC KANIVA 714 Pop 1061 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaniva
VIC SEA LAKE 573 Pop 616 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Lake
VIC MARYSVILLE 636 Pop 226 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marysville,_Victoria
WA MEEKATHARRA 849 Pop 812 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
WA QUAIRADING 649 Pop 596 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
WA BRUCE ROCK 871 Pop 513 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
WA WYNDHAM 896 Pop 669 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyndham,_Western_Australia
WA CORRIGIN 741 Pop 903 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
WA MOUNT MAGNET 850 Pop 532 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
WA ONSLOW 698 Pop 667 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onslow,_Western_Australia
WA LEONORA 1160 Pop 779 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonora,_Western_Australia
WA HALLS CREEK 1151 Pop 1211 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
Queenstown is the largest of these by population.
Is Fiefield playing politics with senators length of service?
On �NBN� NBN AFP Raids, Frank Buijk writes ... Current notice paper Senate: ............ whrl.pl/ReHDAX
31 August 2016
Fifteen sitting days remain, including today, to resolve the motion or the instrument will be deemed to have been disallowed.
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Notices of Motion
Notice given 30 August 2016
Minister for Communications (Senator Fifield):
To move
�
That, pursuant to section 13 of the Constitution, the senators chosen for each state be divided into
two classes, as follows:
(1) Senators listed at positions 7 to 12 on the certificate of election of senators for each state shall be allocated to the first class and receive 3 year terms.
(2) Senators listed at positions 1 to 6 on the certificate of election of senators for each state shall be allocated to the second class and receive 6 year terms.
Reference: http://www.aph.gov.au/Parlia
Page 4, item 3 relates to the AFP Raids.
Australian Constitution � Section 13 � Rotation of senators
As soon as may be after the Senate first meets, and after each first meeting of the Senate following a dissolution thereof, the Senate shall divide the senators chosen for each State into two classes, as nearly equal in number as practicable; and the places of the senators of the first class shall become vacant at the expiration of (the third year) three years, and the places of those of the second class at the expiration of (the sixth year) six years, from the beginning of their term of service' and afterwards the places of senators shall be vacant at the expiration of six years from the beginning of their term of service.
The election to fill vacant places shall be made (in the year at the expiration of which) within one year before the places are to become vacant.
For the purpose of this section the term of service of a senator shall be taken to begin on the first day of July following the day of his election, except in the cases of the first election and of the election next after any dissolution of the Senate, when it shall be taken to begin on the first day of July preceding the day of his election.
On the surface, this looks like an attempt to limit any long term influence of senators not from the major parties will be first to go.
Is there a precedent for a division of this nature following a double dissolution?
Senator Conroy currently on form in Senate going through all the leaks. Shredding the HFC plans, the Strategic Review etc
Shredding the HFC plans, the Strategic Review etc
So basically repeating everything said on these threads then. Has Kingee or GMT stood up to make a point of order?
Is there a precedent for a division of this nature following a double dissolution?
yes, it pretty much has happened this way after every DD.
the 6 lowest quota elected, thus positions 7 to 12 get the 3 year term
Is Fiefield playing politics with senators length of service?
There was a fair way to resolve the division built into the Commonwealth Electoral Act (s282) whereby the Australian Electoral Officer conducts a recount after a double dissolution utilising a half Senate quota (so that the preferences of the position 7-12 senators can be distributed in order to decide who would have been in positions 1-6 in a half Senate election). The only problem is that the Senate decides whether to make use of this information and so far it keeps resolving to use it and then when push comes to shove, ignoring it.
There's some useful info in Odgers about it:
http://www.aph.gov.au/Abo
Senator Conroy currently on form in Senate going through all the leaks. Shredding the HFC plans, the Strategic Review etc
More to come from the establishment of this!
That the following matters be referred to the Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report:
In relation to the execution of search warrants by the Australian Federal Police (AFP) on the Melbourne office of Senator Conroy and the home of an Opposition staff member on 19-20 May 2016, and on the Department of Parliamentary Services at Parliament House, Canberra, on 24 August 2016 or subsequent actions allegedly undertaken by the AFP and NBN Co Limited, as specified in Senator Conroy�s letter to the President of the Senate of 30 August 2016 raising a matter of privilege:
whether there was any improper interference, or attempted improper interference with, the free performance by Senator Conroy of his duties as a senator;
whether disciplinary or other adverse action was taken against any person in connection with the alleged provision of information to Senator Conroy; and
if so, whether any contempt's were committed in respect of those matters.
and if that isn't enough there is also this to be dealt with....
Disposition of documents seized under search warrants
That the following matter be referred to the Standing Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report:
The disposition of the material over which a claim of privilege has been made by Senator the Honourable Stephen Conroy, namely:
the material delivered to the Clerk of the Senate on 20 May 2016 by Australian Federal Police (AFP) following the execution of search warrants on 19-20 May 2016 at the office of Senator Conroy at Treasury Place, Melbourne, and at the Brunswick home of an Opposition staff member;
the material delivered to the Clerk of the Senate on 24 August 2016 by the AFP following the execution of search warrants on that day at the premises of the Department of Parliamentary Services, Parliament House, Canberra; and
the material referred to in a letter from Senator Conroy to the Clerk of the Senate, dated 12 August 2016, being copies of material seized from his office and the home of a staff member on 19-20 May 2016 that had been acquired by the AFP in searching any other premises.
http://www.zdnet.com/articl
This relates to the "lower house" passing a motion as I understand it which may be premature with respect to once it gets to the Senate where imo Labor and the cross benches would be far better served by again establishing a Senate Inquiry into the NBN to continue its review processes.
Christopher Whine edit Pine may just have to hold his horses a while yet and I do note that whilst Labor are all for continuing the inquiry the manner in which that is to be done is yet to be determined..
Cheers
More to come from the establishment of this!
is there any mention about the taking of and sending of photos of documents by an nbn� employee, AFTER privilege had been claimed, who took part in the raids ?
Surely that would be a possible contempt of the Senate, or will that wait till see if "privilege" does in fact exist
Christopher Whine edit Pine may just have to hold his horses a while yet and I do note that whilst Labor are all for continuing the inquiry the manner in which that is to be done is yet to be determined..
Cheers
a couple of Labor spokespeople have said it does come down to the rules.
agree in principle now and you remove Whiney going on about an "obsrtucting" Labor and it all being Labor fault, we are playing politics now, and so far, Labor is in front on the strategy front
Is there any mention about the taking of and sending of photos of documents by an nbn� employee, AFTER privilege had been claimed, who took part in the raids ?
Thought that was covered by the blanket statement here!
whether there was any improper interference, or attempted improper interference with, the free performance by Senator Conroy of his duties as a senator;
a couple of Labor spokespeople have said it does come down to the rules.
agree in principle now and you remove Whiney going on about an "obsrtucting" Labor and it all being Labor fault,
True however the public are tuning off Pine and his constant whines so here perhaps controlling the process in the Senate will provide far more latitude in which to operate and no doubt provide Labor with the Chair and less mucking about organising meeting date's schedules, and who and whom to call..
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