to the point i already know anyone riding on the curt tails of turnbull will not see office if by some miracle the lnp retain offfice if or when the federal royal commission is held i suspect a lot of lnp party faithful will face the docks..
I sincerely hope this is true.
http://www.buddeblog.com.au/
We are spending close to $60 billion dollars on our national digital economy infrastructure and we need to do it wisely and effectively.
This has nothing to do with doing things cheaper and faster; as a matter of fact I would argue for slowing it down, to make sure we do it right.
The fact that the real questions regarding the validity of the MtM cannot be questioned also became clear in a recent report that Analysys Mason wrote for the ACCC. It came to the conclusion that the MtM approach is doable and deliverable within the context of the cheaper and faster policy of the government. But the research company had been explicitly forbidden to take other technologies into account. It is like investigating the road system between Sydney and Melbourne but not taking the freeways into account.
When you look at the extent of what Analysys Mason recently recommended to the Irish Government with their NBP, you'll get an idea of some of what is clearly missing from the current NBN/MTM plans.
Suggest everyone go read the whole Paul Budde article.
yup they talk a good ploy of misinformation...
http://www.buddeblog.com.au/
AS usual more pertinent and wise comments on NBN. Recommend reading the whole article....
The issue has been so incredibly politicised that it is almost impossible to cut through all the noise.
This has nothing to do with doing things cheaper and faster;
After all those years neither the government nor the NBN company have come up with a plan for what we need the NBN for; and what it means for the economy of our country.
All Minister Christopher Pyne had to say on the NBN was that it allows us to download five movies at the same time. How absurd is that? It is not a comment that you would expect from an informed senior political leader. Is that what his vision is for the country, for the NBN � the ability to download Netflix movies? I find that insulting.
NBN is a monopoly service, ..... why is there a need to hide information? Why is there such an issue around leaked documents? There can�t be much commercial-in-confidence information in what is a monopoly business?
There is no way the monopoly company can argue that the leaks are undermining them commercially.
The MtM policy severely undermines other long-term government policies such as innovation and smart cities. All those involved in innovation and smart cities are saying quite clearly that in order to get the proper benefits from these policies a full fibre network is required.
If the rest of the world can find bi-partisan solutions for its digital infrastructure why can�t we do the same?
But the research company had been explicitly forbidden to take other technologies into account
Yeah, that was a crock.. Another skewered partisan review..
Just getting back to the bit where the Comms minister Mitchel Fairfield skipped attending that meeting I can assure you (Because I know what the Libs are like) that they would be calling out Labor for doing the same thing too if they ever skipped such a meeting. But because the Libs are in the High chair at the moment, everyone else is too scared to speak up because the Libs will likely make more lies and made believe crap up.
It just sickens me as a Citizen of this Country that we have a Person in the Communications chair that is ignorant and doesn't care for our future. Any other country right now as I type is at least trying to listen to their citizens and trying to make ends meet. But us??? Ohhh no, we instead have an ignorant person who's not interested in our needs or wants and wants to make sure we are as far back as we are for the future, good game Mr Fairfield.
Also their so called innovation thing that the current Government is trying to push won't work well without a Modern National broadband Network.
But because the Libs are in the High chair at the moment, everyone else is too scared to speak up because the Libs will likely make more lies and made believe crap up.
If you want any proof on who controls the media just look at how much coverage the AFP raids are getting....
Yup that's right. Zilch, nada, nothing... outside of specialist outlets like ZDNet, Delimiter and ABC news everyone else has pretty much moved on and forgotten about it. Now can you imagine if the reverse happened and it happened to the Libs? We would not be hearing the end of it for weeks on end until the election.
Just saw the 4 minutes on the guardian about Q&A, the most cheers came when Tony said politics got involved and he is 100% right there
Comms Minister skips Internet Australia meeting in home town.
Oh he has some nerve... That won't look good on him and Turnbull, just shows how much they have to hide!
Not NBN directly but this sums up the "your home doesn't need those speeds" argument -
EEF members' main concerns for broadband are that it's cost effective, reliable, and resilient, as well as future proof. Speed doesn't factor into it nearly as much.
Pardon my french but thats absolutely bullshit. Its about all of the above there, if they say speed isnt a factor then they shouldn't be there.
Its about all of the above there, if they say speed isnt a factor then they shouldn't be there.
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
I would and still argue today that 25mbps isn't enough but i do see the point, however speed is STILL an important factor and they are making it sound like it isn't. I especially want more upload speeds which we are not getting with this politicised crap
Wait until my die hard liberal voting family find out that they are going to have to forkout moolah to come up with a solution for my Grandmothers Call Alert system.
Well if they are really true blue die hard liberals then they'll come up with a plan to shift those costs to someone else. Have you got your credit card ready? ;)
They didn't say it's a factor, they said it's less important than being reliable and cost effective � if it's unaffordable or drops out five times a day then the speed it's capable of doesn't really matter (in many situation)... I'd rather have a rock solid 25Mbps all day every day than 100Mbps that will stop working in the middle of a phone call, or work video conference, or game, or netflix stream, or ...
There are dropouts and dropouts. In a previous residence of mine I had an ADSL line that dropped out many more than 5 times a day (as it turned out due to rodent activity on wiring internal to the apartment, but that's a different story.) but because my PPOE session stayed up and waited for the modem to retrain, it really only affected voip calls.
The other saving grace is that if your DSL line drops out once a day because of poor line quality, chances are it will be dropping out dozens of times a day and will get flagged for maintenance under NBN rules. The number "5" is chosen not because anyone is saying 5 dropouts a day are acceptable, but because they don't want to be flagging a line for maintenance because someone rebooted their modem a couple of times.
yup they talk a good ploy of misinformation...
Well, it's 'good' only from the coalition point of view.
First they told serial lies about the NBN, so (exactly as intended) all the non-tech, non-committed people got the impression it must be an expensive disaster.
Then they moved to stage two of their campaign and rolled out the even bigger porky that they could deliver their MTM to provide Faster! Cheaper! Quicker! access for everybody.
And now? It looks that the MTM we are getting will be at least as expensive over time as the NBN � but will be grossly inferior from day one, a deficiency which will become greater with every passing decade.
i still wondering why malcs got the comms portfolio in the1st place given the majors of conflicts of interest of industry he has.. though the case of irony it would benefithis business in other areas with reliable infrastructure..
Talk about NBN continues...on the ABC Drum today. Towards end of programme.
A fair bit of ignorance as to what NBN is but.... it is in the arena...increasingly.
Even the known right of centre Creighton, The Australian, concedes to get on with it .."and it might help innovation" (?) ....
Sensible stuff early from Peter Martin Economist, the Age, and Nicki Hutley Economist Urbis.
In a previous residence of mine I had an ADSL line that dropped out many more than 5 times a day (as it turned out due to rodent activity on wiring internal to the apartment, but that's a different story.) but because my PPOE session stayed up and waited for the modem to retrain, it really only affected voip calls.
I assume you have that the wrong way around � you can have a PPP dropout while retaining line sync, but you cannot have an ADSL dropout while maintaining a PPP connection.
The number "5" is chosen not because anyone is saying 5 dropouts a day are acceptable, but because they don't want to be flagging a line for maintenance because someone rebooted their modem a couple of times.
There is no active monitoring that would necessitate such a threshold � the cause of dropouts is only (theoretically) investigated by nbn� if a fault is lodged by the RSP after going through rigorous standard troubleshooting with the customer (triggered by the customer contacting the RSP).
Moved from the NBN HFC thread....
Once full structural separation has been achieved, the first item on the agenda will to replace all the bits that Telstra still owns.
You mean replace the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges?
What about the long term lease payments NBNCo has to pay Telstra for the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges under the Telstra NBN Co agreement?
Likewise, from the HFC thread:
So at the moment ARPU difference between the technologies is negligible.
That is not true at all � not only are there an order of magnitude more customers on FTTP than FTTN overall, there are double the percentage of 100/40 customers on FTTP than there are up-to-100/40 on FTTN... combine those two factors together and ARPU has to be significantly higher on FTTP.
I fully expect FTTN users will start to get dissatisfied with their speed at some stage.
When they do, they won't be able to get a higher speed so they won't be stupid enough to pay more.
They will reduce it, but hit you with something like a $300 contract break fee if Telstra is anything to go by.
I find that incredibly hard to believe.
That is not true at all � not only are there an order of magnitude more customers on FTTP than FTTN overall
Some FTTP areas have had up to 93% takeup. That is impressive.
I assume you have that the wrong way around � you can have a PPP dropout while retaining line sync, but you cannot have an ADSL dropout while maintaining a PPP connection.
In fact you can, but perhaps only if you have a separate modem and router like I did. The Ethernet line was not dropped by the modem while it was resyncing, and consequently the router just kept sending packets. Once the line resynced, the PPP session carried on as before. I assume it would get dropped if the resync took too long, because the server (BRAS) is supposed to send out LCP echo request packets periodically to check the status of the PPPoE session.
On the other hand if I unplugged the Enet cable between the router and the modem, the link went down instantly, my sessions all got ICMP Host unreachable packets and all my SSH (or other TCP) sessions would drop.
There is no active monitoring that would necessitate such a threshold � the cause of dropouts is only (theoretically) investigated by nbn� if a fault is lodged by the RSP after going through rigorous standard troubleshooting with the customer (triggered by the customer contacting the RSP).
Yeah. but the stats are kept in the DSLAM. Those counters would be monitored somewhere. But you may be right that they don't make anything happen until someone phones up and complains. Then someone will look at the counter and put it on maint if the counter for the last 24 hours is > 5 or say it's fine if it is <5.
You mean replace the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges?
What about the long term lease payments NBNCo has to pay Telstra for the pits, pipes, conduits, fibre and exchanges under the Telstra NBN Co agreement?
I guess it depends how good those pits, pipes and conduits are. I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
http://www.sunshinecoastdail
THERE seems to be an assumption in the structuring and marketing of the National Broadband Network that the average punter is too dumb to comprehend the differences in speed offered through the network's various models and incarnations.
That assumption is exemplified by the marketing campaigns of the various telcos hocking NBN, where download limits are shouted in big pastel coloured numbers while finding the actual speeds takes so much clicking around you can only assume the telco would prefer not to talk about it.
Given all that, along with the high cost of plans with the highest speeds, it's really not at all surprising NewsCorp's The Australian was able to shout a few months ago that fewer than 25% of new NBN customers were opting for the fastest plan.
It feels as though we're all being taken for fools.
Which reminds me of something very truthful that the head of Telstra's NZ equivalent was recorded as saying 10 years ago. Something that we see clear evidence of happening still today in Australia from both NBN Co and some major ISP's/RSP's with broadband speeds and different broadband technologies.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bu
Gattung admits Telcos not being straight
Telecom's public image may take another hit as an audio clip of Theresa Gattung circulating on the internet has the chief executive admitting to the company "not being straight up" with customers.
"Think about pricing. What has every telco in the world done in the past? It's used confusion as its chief marketing tool. And that's fine," said Gattung in a speech recorded on March 20.
"You could argue that that's how all of us keep calling prices up and get those revenues, high-margin businesses, keep them going for a lot longer than would have been the case.
"But at some level, whether they consciously articulate or not, customers know that's what the game has been. They know we're not being straight up."
Gattung made the comments as part of a speech given to analysts in Sydney about the company's plans for the future.
"What she was talking about is the new paradigm that we're moving to ... which is all about having a much more transparent, open and easier-to-understand set of products so that customers have a lot more control."
I guess it depends how good those pits, pipes and conduits are. I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
Actually, I guess it firstly depends on whether the economics and ROI stacks up for NBN Co in building their own pits, pipes and conduits. I daresay it does not. And with either a lock of poles where power has gone underground, or poles that are not longer in the possession or control of State Governments, I think you may be 100% wrong on that.
With the existing liabilities for lease payments to utilise Telstra's CAN network assets of pits, pipes, conduits and exchanges (that lasts for how many years?) the economic return nail in the coffin, without a substantial hike in wholesale and retail NBN prices. With the added threat of either the poles and wires owners (current or new owners or strategic partners) or Telstra competing with their own FTTP/5G/Hybrid wireless/fixed line networks.
Some FTTP areas have had up to 93% takeup. That is impressive
To be fair that may be because the 18mth rule is invoked and full cutover has to take place. Must say it belies the LNP arguments that take up is bad which it isn't anyway � well exceeds original forecasts. slagging for the sake of slagging....
I am assuming most of them will not meet NBNco design rules and not be suitable for the big fibre cables they use for FTTP. I may be wrong on that.
I would have thought OF cable has advanced a fair bit and would be smaller now anyway and certainly OF smaller than coax so where's the problem...?
To be fair that may be because the 18mth rule is invoked and full cutover has to take place. Must say it belies the LNP arguments that take up is bad which it isn't anyway � well exceeds original forecasts. slagging for the sake of slagging....
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 41 | 97,679 | 16,445 | 16.8%
FTTN | 60 | 127,040 | 12,123 | 9.5%
FTTB | 71 | 17,441 | 567 | 3.3%
Edit: Will add all the SAM's that went RFS after 25/09/15 (when 1st FTTN site went SAM) up to end March (Made a mistake, correcting)$ Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 303 | 578,608 | 231,611 | 40.0%
FTTN | 96 | 204,240 | 33,798 | 16.5%
FTTB | 118 | 29,007 | 1,359 | 4.7%
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 135 | 270,586 | 79,610 | 29.4%
FTTN | 95 | 203,302 | 33,678 | 16.6%
FTTB | 117 | 28,370 | 1,249 | 4.4%
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
Tech | SAMs RFS | # Premises | # Activated | % Take Up
FTTP | 41 | 97,679 | 16,445 | 16.8%
FTTN | 60 | 127,040 | 12,123 | 9.5%
FTTB | 71 | 17,441 | 567 | 3.3%
Makes a mockery of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's claims on Q&A last night......
I would have thought OF cable has advanced a fair bit and would be smaller now anyway and certainly OF smaller than coax so where's the problem...?
Bending radius. I personally have been bitten by this one. Pipe plenty big enough for the next bigger cable size, but bending radii too small for the bigger cable. The design rules for new estates are very particular about bending radii and certainly don't allow plenty of things that copper cables just wouldn't care about.
Makes a mockery of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's claims on Q&A last night......
All helpfully mapped out here since the 1st SAM went RFS
- https://nbnmtm.cartodb.com/vi
Edit: Will add all the SAM's that went RFS after 25/09/15 (when 1st FTTN site went SAM) up to end March
Wow, this is what Frank was talking about, even if FTTN is quicker to build it is not an advantage if the takeup lags too far behind FTTP.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
Bending radius. I personally have been bitten by this one.
have a look at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUBRjiVhJTs
HFC has the same problems of bend radius as most optical fibres, just that a 10 times of a 10mm diameter HFC cable is much bigger than 10 times a 3 mm diameter SMOF fibre NBN Co was using for lead ins
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
I did rough estimates months ago somewhere in these forums. Even if FTTP takes an extra 90 days (which seems roughly where it is forecast to be at the moment), FTTP will be already earning more revenue within the first 3 months than FTTN will be at 6+ months. At that point the CAPEX is done, the OPEX is lower, and FTTP sites are just raking in the dough.
I dread to think what will happen with the 18m cutoff for FTTN. At least with FTTP the change is very visible to every home owner, but with FTTN if you don't follow the rollout, you may not even know that it has occured. Add on to the fact that people don't lose their copper and will cling on further to their special services, I see the 18m easily blowing out to 24m+ for the first FTTN sites.
fttn/fttdp might be an applicable install 10-20 years ago, today it is hardly worth given the distance limitations copper as service medium..
whilst the plan indicates fttn/fttdp as a cheaper to install solution, though go and ask telstra to install vdsl for you and will find a $5,000 PRICE tag you will have pay at a bare minimum..
now add 300-1,500 services at that price and a unreliable copper service past 1km and past 100meters from the pit a viability of vdsl/lan services..
Mac i suspect we are looking a 20-45 trillion on the non existent repairs and maintenance contracts to telstra for the next 30-60 years for the copper..
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Upload and network reliability. ie. Rain, sun, degrading copper. Power usage == a whole power station for nodes.
Mac i suspect we are looking a 20-45 trillion on the non existent repairs and maintenance contracts to telstra for the next 30-60 years for the copper
As a TLS shareholder I welcome that news!
Not that I believe the figures or that the FTTN solution is as terrible as made out here.
Power usage == a whole power station for nodes.
Here we go again, typical for posts on this site � ultra exaggeration. Either a mini power station or the nodes just self replicated a thousand times. There is enough genuine data to argue each side of this technical/economic debate without resorting to outlandish claims. Mind you, publish it on the web and it becomes fact eh!
Wow, this is what Frank was talking about, even if FTTN is quicker to build it is not an advantage if the takeup lags too far behind FTTP.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
In one all inclusive line that says it all:
IF the Cost per Premises is lower on FTTN in comparison to FTTP, then the benefit is definitely wasted on the lower uptake rate on FTTN in comparison to FTTP while NBN Co is rolling out faster FTTN.
Good morning ... :)
Nice information Nigel :) great work!
Hopefully everybody could understand my croaky voice.
That assumption is exemplified by the marketing campaigns of the various telcos hocking NBN, where download limits are shouted in big pastel coloured numbers while finding the actual speeds takes so much clicking around you can only assume the telco would prefer not to talk about it.
That irks me seriously..
The Telstra ad is the worst. Picture a family of several members, on several devices, movies , online games etc and then the claim..
"All at the same time"
No speed is mentioned.. yet they claim by being connected to the nbn , you can do all these things without buffering..
Well you can't do that on 12/1. My son can tell you that. He's like that family in the ad. I doubt if you could do it on 25/2.
The charity organization I work for has 32 connectors to one line.
Dont tell me 25/2 will be OK for them.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people.
Is there a link to stream or transcript.?
At least with FTTP the change is very visible to every home owner, but with FTTN if you don't follow the rollout, you may not even know that it has occured.
I wonder how much this point has affected take up rates of FTTN? Especially with the later FTTP installs (where every PCD was installed whether you asked for it or not) it was bleedingly obvious that a new connection would be available soon so people looked into it. There is a very high likelihood that many people in the FTTN footprint don't even know it is being installed (if they don't happen to drive past a node while it is being worked on).
Have nbn been sending out mail about the FTTN rollouts in those areas? I moved away from my last house before they started coming.
A faster FTTN build with lagging takeup burns through cash.
That's the NBN Co financial death spiral I was banging on about the other day in Whirlpool.
Here we go again, typical for posts on this site � ultra exaggeration. Either a mini power station
Its is roughly a powerstation overall needed for 50,000+ nodes
or the nodes just self replicated a thousand times
No idea what you mean by that.
Is there a link to stream or transcript.?
Should be a link here not long after the show. Local time of interview was 8:47am I think it was. I got around 10min in.
http://www.abc.net.au/brisba
Have nbn been sending out mail about the FTTN rollouts in those areas? I moved away from my last house before they started coming.
FTTN is rolling out around me and it is very hard to miss. As it approached the date to go live the service providers, particularly Telstra, have ramped up publicity and feet on the ground in shopping centres etc.
Also it is interesting that it appears a lot of the effort, and cost presumably, has gone into the laying of purpose built new conduit to provide the OF link to all the nodes. So presumably when the whiners have their way and all this is replaced by FTTP, it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node.
On the other hand the negative campaign is gaining traction with help from poorly written articles in the local rag. Several articles pointed to poor service in Newcastle and neatly stepped over the fact they all seemed to relate to the backhaul problems of one small provider. Even Paul Budde was less than clear in his comments regarding the Hamilton exchange. Then problem referenced would have been the same even if these customers were on FTTP, it had nothing to do with the copper in the exchange.
So presumably when the whiners have their way and all this is replaced by FTTP, it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node.
Except the Fibre doesn't come from the node. It has to be taken to the fsam . The node becomes obsolete.
Its is roughly a powerstation overall needed for 50,000+ nodes
By my reckoning there are 4 main power stations in NSW, the smallest producing 1400Mw. Show me your maths. 50,000 nodes compared with 2.8 million households in NSW using some of that power output to run lights, power, heating, hot water etc never mind all the industrial use. See Computer World 10/6/14 "FTTN power bill $89m per year. Does not seem like much of a power station.
Except the Fibre doesn't come from the node. It has to be taken to the fsam . The node becomes obsolete.
Rubbish. It can be repurposed. Technology creep, we can't have a smaller FSAM where some of the nodes are. In any case there is now a lot of the fibre around all these main streets, presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also. Just because FTTP plan had the FSAM back at the exchange with OF running out to the GPON links for each bundle of houses does not mean there are no alternative topologies that could work when required.
it should be fairly easy to pull some of that lovely new Corning Clearcurve fibre through the ducts from the node
The FTTP will not be connected at the node...
Rubbish. It can be repurposed.
Nope...that is why the FoD is bypassing the node completely today.
presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also
Nope...4 strands per node.
The FTTP will not be connected at the node...
Think outside the nine dots. Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant, but it is a location with power etc and could have a mini FSAM installed etc feeding the local loop (that would need to be installed). OK there could be some cost penalties but surely simpler than rejigging the whole damn lot.
So it seems I'm am going to get some airtime on 612 abc this morning at 8:45. Give me some pertinent talking points people
Yes, I heard you Nigel... good effort you got some good points across, I think the ABC presenter was stunned with some of the information.
It is got that this issue seems to be getting a run on 612 ABC and lots of business people are coming on saying how the current MTM mess is making it very difficult to run their businesses.
There looks to be some momentum there, if the ALP wants to win the election they need to raise the profile of this issue.... I think they will do that .. it is just a question of timing ... the clock is ticking ... I expect the alarm to go off soon. :)
Nope...4 strands per node.
And where I am there are 5 nodes within half a km, so 20 fibres and basically fed by the same main conduit. So how many OF from the FSAM to here under your plan to feed each of the 32 houses on a loop. Remember OF has "unlimited" potential. As I said just rethink the design move some of the stuff closer to the end point.
The node becomes obsolete.
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
Also there is still the contributing issue of the Network Design Rules that have been changed. No redundant design on FTTN.
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
So making FOD even more impossible than it already is.
So making FOD even more impossible than it already is.
FoD in the current offering is just a service that is there for political arguments.
Practically it is not worth a cent, if you consider the default bandwidth capacity towards to the Node. On a busy evening, after 18 months of activation, the available default bandwidth becomes rather crowded and the opportunity to receive even remotely the speed purchased on FoD I would consider impossible.
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
Yup, how nice the public has been sold a dud.
:0<
Correct from FTTN to FTTP on GPON requires a complete rebuild. I would not call it a upgrade in engineer terms.
agreed, though I believe they are simply sticking multiports at the node and using the spare strands from that to run out to max 32 premises per multiport. it is essentially a separate network, you are right. end user is paying for it all � it is meant to be at no cost to NBN, in line with current govt policy.
end user is paying for it all
In engineering terms there is always a solution, in cost-economical terms mostly there isn't. It mostly boils down to one question from the engineer to his manager: "How much are you willing to pay for it?" :)
Calculated a rebuild in the past, top of my head, around A$50b if the FTTN would be rolled out completely. The longer the FTTN roll out continues, the closer we get to this number. If a switch to FTTP (perhaps in combination with FTTdp) is required after the election, the balance act will be to stop the roll out of FTTN as cost-economically as possible while at the same time start-up a FTTP roll out as soon as possible.
I understand the NBN-policy is in the ALP budget which is financial sensible. It is the kind of sensibility I would expect from NBN Co in regards to their Corporate Plan. Claiming that FTTP is the end solution, implies that financial responsibility should be taken how we get to that end point.
A desktop analysis into a rebuild to FTTP would be a good idea. Likely Professor Ergas can offer a helping hand. :P
Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant
Which is what will happen with a full FTTP roll out.
You cannot simply upgrade fttn to fttp � it doesn't work that way for a number of reasons.
The LNP have stuck us with a solution that isn't even adequate for today's needs.
A desktop analysis into a rebuild to FTTP would be a good idea. Likely Professor Ergas can offer a helping hand. :P
$25b for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model..?
$25b for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model..?
$25 for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model ... sorry that is a statement of net worth, not build cost.
$25 for the lnp model and $100b for the alp model ... sorry that is a statement of net worth, not build cost
Lol.. depends on ergas interpretation..
Rubbish. It can be repurposed. Technology creep, we can't have a smaller FSAM where some of the nodes are. In any case there is now a lot of the fibre around all these main streets, presumably with unused fibres in the bundle also. Just because FTTP plan had the FSAM back at the exchange with OF running out to the GPON links for each bundle of houses does not mean there are no alternative topologies that could work when required.
No point. The fibre is piss easy to run from the FSAM � because the ducts have already been cleared to run the fibre for the node. There is no reason to run mini-fsams. Just run the FSAM � run the fibre out through the pre-cleared ducts and you are good to go.
The nodes are redundant. A waste of time, as waste of space. The FSAMS can sit in the best choice for their location, not on the side of the road.
There is a very high likelihood that many people in the FTTN footprint don't even know it is being installed (if they don't happen to drive past a node while it is being worked on).
That's still no reason to think that the NBNis bring installed in your area. A node is being installed near my son's school in the Blue Mountains (did a lovely job wrecking some folk's footpath and fence), and there isn't an NBN symbol in sight. My missus had no idea it was NBN related, even though I talk her ear off about the issue.
Combine that with the older population up here, and it's likely bugger all people know NBN is rolling out without searching for the info.
HFC has the same problems of bend radius as most optical fibres, just that a 10 times of a 10mm diameter HFC cable is much bigger than 10 times a 3 mm diameter SMOF fibre NBN Co was using for lead ins
The true cost of HFC is not yet known but obviously it will all be in the HFC lead-in. From my reading everything else just seems to be using the existing HFC plant, other than the CMTS:
DO they need to deploy Fibre like they would for FTTP or FTTN for HFC. I have seen a lot of NBN workers in Yangebup where I live and haven't seen any Fibre being deployed.
Comparison of all SAM's that went RFS after 01/01/16 and take up data is from end of March.
You will see the same with HFC, a relatively low take-up rate. If you are a Bigpond cable user going to NBN will be a step back: you lose your landline and need to rely on the more unreliable VoIP and if you have Fast cable with 35 Mbps you will be downgraded to 25 Mbps NBN (reduction of 30%!). ADSL users with new HFC NTDs may be excited by this new technology (which they had access to already but maybe never realised) and be the majority of early adopters.
And where I am there are 5 nodes within half a km
Is that all, around here we have about 10 nodes within half a km
Yes current FTTP does not work that way and yes the nodes becomes redundant, but it is a location with power etc and could have a mini FSAM installed etc feeding the local loop (that would need to be installed).
And the current FTTN customers do what while this is happening?
And the current FTTN customers do what while this is happening?
"Who cares, they should move to somewhere that has better connectivity"
/sarcasm
or that the FTTN solution is as terrible as made out here
Don't take the word of posters here but check out the posts of those suffering through the FTTN rollout on FTTN threads like NBN � Cannington WA. There are very few happy customers..... Comparatively for FTTP rollout FTTP went like a dream while it was going and improving as it went both delivery and cost wise. It must be costing a fortune to fix all the problems, and RSPs are giving upgrades just to keep customers happy which also costs them. 'Terrible' may be a kind word in this instance....
Hopefully everybody could understand my croaky voice.
Is there a transcipt or summary...?
Is there a transcipt or summary...?
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
http://www.computerworld.com
Hi Australia how's your 25mbps going?
Here it is.
Good interview, it's amazing the difference between an interview with someone who knows what they're talking about and a minister dumped with the portfolio regurgitating factually incorrect talking points prepared by someone else.
it's amazing the difference between an interview with someone who knows what they're talking about
It's like stumbling into oppsiteland
Here it is.
Go easy on me :)
http://blogs.abc.net.au/qu
Nice one mate.
Well worth listening too.
By my reckoning there are 4 main power stations in NSW, the smallest producing 1400Mw.
That's NSW, sure, here in WA, our best powerplant does 854MW, Western Power can't even get things right when it comes to keeping power up and running.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Really good listen, clear, accessible and to the point. Thank you.
It's like stumbling into oppsiteland
Nice one mate.
Well worth listening too.
Thanks, good work. Your voice was nice and clear.
Really good listen, clear, accessible and to the point. Thank you.
Cheers guys/girls.
I was surprised I was given that much airtime. Although it felt like it was over too fast. I'll have to do write up a list of talking points if I get another opportunity.
There looks to be some momentum there, if the ALP wants to win the election they need to raise the profile of this issue....
They have to be allowed to air NBN issues.... I heard on ABC radio this morning that Shorten's sound bite this morning (to be done later) would include NBN (first point mentioned) etc in Labor economic Plan announcement. Seen minimal footage of Shortens piece and summaries do not include reference to NBN, in fact Cormann and Turnbull got more air time criticising the announcement. Have to laugh at Turnbull's 'glossy brochure' attack � take a look at his "Our Economic Plan' which they all carry around Abbottesque like. Their short section referring to NBN is Fifields tweet posted earlier and criticises Labor rather than present their own Economic Plan � political deflection when you have nothing good to present....
Why pay first up front for a cost calculation, then for the implementation and then to discover you don't get the speed?
That's what FTTN is all about isn't it?
Cheers guys/girls.
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises. What did you mean about that?
You said that NBN Co was being misleading and dishonest about activating FTTN premises. What did you mean about that?
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Not that I'm aware of. It's 9 minutes.
http://blogs.abc.net
Great stuff Nigel...hope there were lots of Qlder's listening and hopefully a few media outlets will be prompted into action, after all they always want controversy...here's their chance.
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Didn't that used to be a bad thing? ;)
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
Wasn't Cannington mentioned?
Wasn't Cannington mentioned?
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Go easy on me :)
No need too, you were brilliant!
You got to the fact of the matter and demonstrated why the current situation is a farce.
I expect the AFP will be readying a raid on you.../sarcasm
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
It's up to the LNP to prove otherwise.
Since when has the truth been central to the nbn policy debate?
Everything Nigel stated is true.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Surely you should be pushing for Turnbull's NBN Co to change their reporting like you expected Labor's NBN Co to?
Nigel should have been able to name one place where this was a problem.
No. Besides, one area doesn't indicate a problem with the system.
Bahahaha! Typical. So Nigel cant win. He has to name a place to be given credibility, but it doesn't matter anyway if he does name a place because Turnbull's NBN Co cant be wrong.
.
one area doesn't indicate a problem
Sure, check individual FTTN deployment threads, there are lots of posts from lots of deployment regions not able to connect for various different reasons. The gist of it is, there does not appear to be a standardised FTTN installation, most require some kind of technical intervention. This wasn't required for FTTP.
Since when has the truth been central to the nbn policy debate?
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
They are claiming that areas are RFS when nobody in those areas is able to successfully order a service.
Honestly, the only rollout rates worth reflection are the connection stats � 76% on Labor-contracted FTTP, 4% on FTTN.
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
You are sounding a bit panicked their KF � it's not like the mtm is a vote loser for Malcolm as people are starting to realise who is responsible for the lack of improvement.
The gist of it is, there does not appear to be a standardised FTTN installation, most require some kind of technical intervention.
This should'nt be a surprise to NBN Co because it was made apparent in their trials. The speeds they quoted werent possible without multiple visits from technicians to "tweak" the connection. People asked the question back then, that if this was required for all connections, how is the MTM going to be cheaper or faster, because it adds a massive extra level of cost and scheduling issues on top of an already expensive, slow rollout.
Its a shame people like Kingforce didn't ask the hard questions of the Libs back then. Maybe now we would have a better outcome.
Maybe now we would have a better outcome.
They still support MTM so I doubt it.
Good work Nigel � if you need to be bailed out let us know.
He has to name a place to be given credibility,
It would be a start.
But it doesn't matter anyway if he does name a place because Turnbull's NBN Co cant be wrong.
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero). The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
Almost as good as 25mbps for everyone by 2016! Or FTTN will only take 6 months to start rolling out? Or, the copper wont need much remediation? The list goes on and on!
St Marys POI. 5CPK3 and 5CPK10. Cannington. There's others.
So it could be a case of Whirlpool exaggerating as usual.
No. You asked for examples and you were given them.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem
What do the liberals propose?
Exaggeration like saying a network will cost 29.5 billion and then it magically doubles?
Well you know them pixie dusting fairies pop up every now and then.
Like the same ones that fixes the copper network.
Huh!
:0<
If it's a problem with the system then people need to be sure about that.
It's a problem with honesty.
How many premises have been affected and what should be done about it?
Many thousands. Are you seriously asking what should be done about it? The answer is obvious � tell the truth.
name one place where this was a problem.
The St Marys thread includes many posters affected by this deception.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises
lol now you're blaming Labor for not explaining how they will fix Turnballs mess of a network?
Almost as good as 25mbps for everyone by 2016! Or FTTN will only take 6 months to start rolling out? Or, the copper wont need much remediation? The list goes on and on!
Yup the LNP trumpet blowing in the ocean really.
It would be a start.
Not really something you should be commenting on.
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem
You said you would ignore them regardless.
Just before the 2013 election the AFR reported that one third of premises couldn't order a service on Labor's NBN (service class zero).
Turnbulls NBN CO is now doing exactly the same thing � funnily enough, just before an election where the Libs are getting drastically desperate for runs on the broadband board. Why aren't you calling them out over this as you do with Labor?
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build and that would give flexibility to pay contractors more. Which has nothing to do with anything that is being discussed, but regardless, hasn't happened. The cost has blown out, and contractors are still unhappy.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Give us a break! This is the Coalition thread. Nothing to do with Labor. The question that needs to be asked is why the Libs have made this mess, and why are they allowing NBN CO to do the exact same things that the Libs criticised Labor for. The only reason we have FTTN is because of Turnbull. What is he doing to fix it?
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Sorry, thats off topic. This is the Liberal Policy thread. What do your mates propose to fix the problem?
Its a big problem, because despite the rhetoric, and the lies (such as Pyne: The nbn is on track), people are realising that they arent getting what was promised. And a significant proportion who are getting it, are running into serious problems. The regional threads in here a full of them.
So I repeat, what is the Liberal Policy to fix this? They are running out of money, and MTM doesnt make enough to cover commercial interest rates. How will they fix it?
That's why I say there needs to be numbers to confirm that this is a widespread problem.
How about $29.5 billion to provide 25Mbps to all by 2016.
The Coalition strategy was to lower the capex cost of the build which would give flexibility to pay contractors more.
Wrong, the Coalition's strategy was to pay contractors more to not do the work, in order to scupper the FTTP rollout.
What does Labor propose to do about the problem of activating FTTN premises ... if it is a problem?
Stop the stupidity of rolling out FTTN in 2016 using copper that is not fit for purpose.
ive us a break! This is the Coalition thread. Nothing to do with Labor. The question that needs to be asked is why the Libs have made this mess, and why are they allowing NBN CO to do the exact same things that the Libs criticised Labor for. The only reason we have FTTN is because of Turnbull. What is he doing to fix it?
Exactly the libs are absolute hypocrites with the NBN. Labor got blasted for the FTTN proposition and rightly so. But the Libs do it its all just dandy o for them to do it.
Stop the stupidity of rolling out FTTN in 2016 using copper that is not fit for purpose.
Indeed take the logical common sense way.
Give us a break!
We're in the middle of an election. So we need to compare to Labor's plans.
Nigel was specifically asked how the major parties were going to fix the "network shortfall".
Not only do people have trouble proving that it is a serious problem, it wouldn't matter anyway because no party is willing to do anything about it!
Exactly the libs are absolute hypocrites with the NBN. Labor got blasted for the FTTN proposition and rightly so. But the Libs do it its all just dandy o for them to do it.
The term "Fraudband" was initially coined by a LNP Politician. Fiona Nash I believe, to describe a FTTN rollout that would not meet expectations and blowout costs by 3 to 4 times the estimate.
http://www.fionanash.com.au/
Here we are about 10 years later, and things are going exactly the way Ms Nash predicted. Irony is such a cruel master.
Slot Machines in Chicago | Mapyro
Trả lờiXóaSlot 속초 출장마사지 machines in 화성 출장안마 Chicago are available to play online. The first to 동두천 출장안마 mention 강릉 출장마사지 these two locations are the Chicago casino, the Casino of the Earth and 김제 출장샵 the Casino of