Continues from: /forum-replies.cfm?t=2383974&p=-1#bottom
Good morning Part 6. Let's start with some news/information:
http://www.
On the other side of the Tasman, Vodafone New Zealand is sweetening the pot in the super-fast broadband roll-out by announcing a multi-million dollar upgrade to its HFC network which will see it deliver 1Gbps (retail) service DOCSIS 3.1 in mid-2016.
Hmm, first NZ beats us about the head with FTTP now they are doing the same with HFC (note they are deploying D3.1 in mid-2016 whereas NBN is doiing this sometime in 2017)?
EDIT: Now how do Vodafone NZ interact with UFB? Are they provding a wholesale HFC service to replace UFB FTTP? I would have thought if not (like our Telstra) then the areas they service would have to be overbuilt by UFB to ensure residents have access to a wholesale broadband service.
But I am curious about this:
The UFB rollout has made steady progress since then .... However, only 133,000 subscribers have so far signed up for the service � representing take-up of 16 per cent �some way below the over 50 per cent take-up of services over the fixed-broadband portion of the nbn� network.
Probably a discussion for another thread, but why is the takeup so low in NZ? Not a good return for UFB and yet here in Aus we think NBN is going to struggle with cost/revenue problems.
No theory as to the cause, just observations.
You yourself noted that you were speculating.
Interesting. So when NBN take over do they buy the Arris CMTS from Telstra where these have been deployed and replace with their Arris CMTS otherwise?
Mostly I expect that NBN Co will deploy their own Arris CMTS alongside Telstra's existing Cisco equipment.
I think Telstra have deployed one E6000 in Perth and one in Adelaide so far (one for you and one for me, what are the chances?) and I believe they are only likely to deploy a few more. I don't know what the arrangements will be for this handful of units, although I would be very surprised if they are not used as part of NBN Co's network within the next 5 years. This would be separate from the $11bn deal, basically NBN Co buying used equipment from Telstra rather than the same equipment new from Arris (with a discount to match).
I think Telstra have deployed one E6000 in Perth and one in Adelaide so far (one for you and one for me, what are the chances?)
Just goes to show that Telstra are following this thread closely so put the first 2 units in for 2 people that are intensely interested in developments! :-)
I believe they are only likely to deploy a few more. I don't know what the arrangements will be for this handful of units, although I would be very surprised if they are not used as part of NBN Co's network within the next 5 years.
Is it really only your exchange in Adelaide and the Bateman one in Perth that have had them installed?
I was thinking any of the cable exchanges getting upgraded over the last couple of weeks around Perth would have also had one installed.
With the Bateman exchange getting upgraded to a NBN exchange to service Bull Creek FTTP will the one Arris unit service Bull Creek's future FTTP connections as well as all the HFC connections?
basically NBN Co buying used equipment from Telstra rather than the same equipment new from Arris (with a discount to match).
Roughly what sort of price would Telstra and NBN Co be paying for a new Arris E6000 unit?
Also would my full CMTS-MAC address and Pete's be identical or slightly different because of different line cards?
I was thinking any of the cable exchanges getting upgraded
HFC is not based on exchange areas.
HFC is not based on exchange areas.
Maybe not, but it sure is coincidental that the HFC area where I live religiously follows the telephone exchange area of Bateman, just switch to the other side of the street onto the Hilton exchange and no more HFC cable.
With the Bateman exchange getting upgraded to a NBN exchange to service Bull Creek FTTP will the one Arris unit service Bull Creek's future FTTP connections as well as all the HFC connections?
The Arris CMTS only services the HFC NBN and has nothing to do with the FTTP NBN. In FTTP Bull Creek they still need to maintain the HFC for Foxtel cable.
What is more interesting for me is the NBN work they did in May 2015 when they ran green fibre cable across Murdoch drive (along Marsengo Rd and then across to Somerville Blvd) with some serious trenching work (you can still see the PVC piping and orange netting on the south side of Somerville Blvd after the Murdoch Drive lights, surprised the council hasn't required NBN to come back and clean up). I guess they decided to run some backhaul fibre to the HFC nodes in anticipation.
Is it really only your exchange in Adelaide and the Bateman one in Perth that have had them installed?
In Adelaide multiple "exchanges" covering quite a large area received the upgrade however they are all being served from a single E6000 chassis as determined by the gateway MAC address and that the modems all share the same subnet. I haven't been following the Perth upgrade very closely nor do I have the same first hand data, although what I have seen is consistent with what's happened in Adelaide.
Also would my full CMTS-MAC address and Pete's be identical or slightly different because of different line cards?
The reported CMTS-MAC appears to be different for each downstream port on the E6000, I would expect them to be very close but not identical values if you are in different suburbs that both got the upgrade.
will the one Arris unit service Bull Creek's future FTTP connections as well as all the HFC connections?
The Arris CMTS only serves HFC. There may be an OLT colocated in the same FAN site (usually an existing Telstra exchange) for FTTP, in which case they would share the same backhaul from the FAN site to the POI.
Is it really only your exchange in Adelaide
Yep, Adelaide was lucky enough to get the first Arris E6000 installed � https://www.linkedin.com/puls
HFC is not based on exchange areas
I guess you didn't like my use of the term cable exchanges.
By cable exchange I meant a HFC enabled exchange that connects several HFC suburbs together i.e houses the CMTS for those suburbs.
I know there are streetside located CMTS's rather than exchange located, but they are rare I've read.
I guess they decided to run some backhaul fibre to the HFC nodes in anticipation.
Whether its backhaul or something else, speeds have definitely changed for me across the nullabor since the upgrade with east coast servers now able to saturate my connection.
In Adelaide multiple "exchanges" covering quite a large area received the upgrade however they are all being served from a single E6000 chassis
as determined by the gateway MAC address and that the modems all share the same subnet.
So you are saying the northern Perth suburbs that had a upgrade recently could well be connected to the Bateman Arris E6000 which is located in the southern suburbs and separated by 20-30kms?
I would expect them to be very close but not identical values if you are in different suburbs
Ok like I thought. Are we actually allowed to post our full CMTS-MAC's or does Telstra mind?
The Arris CMTS only serves HFC. There may be an OLT colocated in the same FAN site
(usually an existing Telstra exchange) for FTTP, in which case they would share the same backhaul from the FAN site to the POI.
Sounds like a cheaper option that will work while there aren't many new subcribers to Bull Creek FTTP. If this method isn't used then, what needs to be setup/installed at the exchange by the NBN to allow the connection of FTTP premises?
So you are saying the northern Perth suburbs that had a upgrade recently could well be connected to the Bateman Arris E6000 which is located in the southern suburbs and separated by 20-30kms?
It's possible, DOCSIS can tolerate transmission beyond 150km. If the CMTS is in a central location, that is only ~15km out to each. The recent upgrades in Adelaide span a similar distance.
As I say, I haven't been following Perth happenings very closely as they are of no consequence to me. You and PeteP can check the MAC address of your gateway (with your modem bridged) to confirm.
Ok like I thought. Are we actually allowed to post our full CMTS-MAC's or does Telstra mind?
Your CMTS-MAC could narrow you down to ~200 premises if somebody inside Telstra really wanted to know who you are. With that in mind, they really don't care. It cannot be used e.g. to facilitate the theft of service.
Just to reiterate, the gateway MAC is shared across the entire E6000 chassis and is seen as a L2 device by a router connected to a bridged modem. The "CMTS-MAC" from the logs is seen only by the modem, this is unique to each downstream port on the E6000. The gateway MAC is what really matters here, of course over that kind of distance you will be on different ports.
Sounds like a cheaper option that will work while there aren't many new subcribers to Bull Creek FTTP.
It's not really an option, they're 2 different devices designed to serve different types of networks and there is little benefit to converging them.
If this method isn't used then, what needs to be setup/installed at the exchange by the NBN to allow the connection of FTTP premises?
No different from a pure FTTP rollout, they just need to install an OLT to terminate the fibre. The equipment for FTTP is simple and relatively cheap, physically running the fibre from A to B is the expensive part. Not relevant to this thread.
Duplicate, thanks browser...
It's possible, DOCSIS can tolerate transmission beyond 150km. If the CMTS is in a central location, that is only ~15km out to each. The recent upgrades in Adelaide span a similar distance.
The HFC upgrades have extended to Nedlands and beyond, in fact pretty much all the HFC in Perth was upgraded to QAM256 (and I assume on an Arris CMTS) in the last 2 weeks. Where the physical Arris CMTS is located is anybody's guess. There is more HFC in the northern suburbs (inner and outer) than where we are in Bateman (inner southern suburb). The only reason we may be the ones privileged to house the Arris CMTS is that our area is the first on the list for the NBN HFC Build (H1 2016) thanks to being on the first 6APP POI in Perth and one of the areas NBN need to finish off first (been in build with FTTP since 2011) with all those preparations that have been place of the aborted FTTP rollout.
Whether its backhaul or something else, speeds have definitely changed for me across the nullabor since the upgrade with east coast servers now able to saturate my connection.
At the moment this is "dark fibre" I would think. They only trenched from a residential street in Bateman across to the next residential street in Murdoch, both ends where terminated by the huge 1x2 Telstra pit that are usually located near pillars. I assume the fibre is to interconnect parts of the network but still odd they had to do that one year before they even knew how the NBN HFC rollout would be designed (which they still don't know!).
If the CMTS is in a central location, that is only ~15km out to each. The recent upgrades in Adelaide span a similar distance.
Bateman isn't that central to Perth being ~12kms south of CBD while some northern HFC exchanges are 20-25kms from CBD so that's a little different from Adelaide.
One unit north of river and one south would make more sense for Perth's HFC layout, maybe that's the plan down the track.
So if there were two or more units installed in Perth, as users we couldn't actually tell that from CMTS addresses alone?
the gateway MAC is shared across the entire E6000 chassis and is seen as a L2 device by a router connected to a bridged modem. The "CMTS-MAC" from the logs is seen only by the modem,
this is unique to each downstream port on the E6000.
Ok so a different CMTS-MAC is seen for bridged and unbridged. My modem is in normal mode and the logs tab is hidden so I can only see the full MAC in the ARP/RARP Table.
CMTS-MAC 00:01:5C:82:32:46
Pete let us know how much it actually differs to yours.
There may be an OLT colocated in the same FAN site (usually an existing Telstra exchange) for FTTP, in which case they would share the same backhaul from the FAN site to the POI.
Could that have been done over the last few months and the recent upgrade did indeed connect Bateman's HFC into the NBN POI of Applecross(6APP) and that is why I am now seeing better national speeds when sharing NBN's backhaul?
The only reason we may be the ones privileged to house the Arris CMTS is that our area is the first on the list for the NBN HFC Build (H1 2016) thanks to being on the first 6APP POI in Perth and one of the areas
NBN need to finish off first (been in build with FTTP since 2011) with all those preparations that have been place of the aborted FTTP rollout.
I would say that has a very large part to do with it. Bull Creek's FTTP has a RFS in 4 days time on the 19th Feb, a positive sign they may have just made that deadline with all this Arris exchange work being done in the last 2 weeks.
I don't know anything about NBN rollout in the northern suburbs, but would have thought there was at least one (H1 2016) suburb close to be interconnected to their POI like Bateman to Applecross in the south.
I'd guess the new cable went south along Murdoch Drive then down South St to connect Applecross to Bateman.
So if there were two or more units installed in Perth, as users we couldn't actually tell that from CMTS addresses alone?
You can.
Ok so a different CMTS-MAC is seen for bridged and unbridged.
"CMTS-MAC" refers strictly to the port's HFC MAC address seen by the modem, this will only appear in the logs and not in any address table. On the E6000, this appears to be unique to each downstream port. We are not interested in this address, and the "CMTS-MAC" terminology is confusing in any other context.
The "gateway" MAC address (which is common to all ports on a single E6000 chassis, contrived terminology from yours truly to avoid confusion) does not change when bridged/unbridged, I simply wasn't sure if the Netgear modems allowed the ARP table to be viewed. This is what you have posted, not your CMTS-MAC.
00:01:5C:82:32:46
My "gateway" MAC address is 00:01:5c:83:22:46 while I have personally observed CMTS-MAC's in the range from 00:01:5c:83:22:49 to 60. This suggests that the last 12 bits of the MAC address are assigned to each CMTS, and that it would be possible to identify if you're both on the same CMTS regardless of which PeteP provides.
Could that have been done over the last few months and the recent upgrade did indeed connect Bateman's HFC into the NBN POI of Applecross(6APP) and that is why I am now seeing better national speeds when sharing NBN's backhaul?
Nothing to do with it, you're still going over Telstra's network.
The "gateway" MAC address (which is common to all ports on a single E6000 chassis, contrived terminology from yours truly to avoid confusion) does not change when bridged/unbridged, I simply wasn't sure if the Netgear modems allowed the ARP table to be viewed. This is what you have posted, not your CMTS-MAC.
Ah I see now and will refrain from using CMTS-MAC and stick with Gateway MAC to avoid any confusion.
I'm using the Cisco EPC3925 which does allow the ARP table to be viewed.
This suggests that the last 12 bits of the MAC address are assigned to each CMTS, and that it would be possible to identify if you're both on the same CMTS regardless of which PeteP provides.
Ok, so only the last two hex numbers will change for different units.
Edit: 83 for SA and 82 for WA it seems.
Nothing to do with it, you're still going over Telstra's network.
If that's the case, then that makes me really wonder why I suddenly have better national speeds.
Can the extra speed be explained then, just by the upgrade from a ~2010 Cisco to a ~2014 Arris CMTS and QAM64 to 256?
CMTS-MAC 00:01:5C:82:32:46
Pete let us know how much it actually differs to yours.
My Netgear CG3100D-2 (bridged) has the following in the Event Logs:
CMTS-MAC=00:01:5c:82:32:4c
Do you expect there is a magical switch that NBN can just flick and then everyone can access NBN through HFC?
I never expected that, although I do recall at least one or two HFC advocates who use to hang in this thread saying that would be the case, including one who was fond of saying that no upgrades to Telstra's HFC were required. Haven't seen the particular one I am thinking of post here in quite a long time though. Even some media commentators were applauding the use of HFC when the deal was first signed by saying that it meant that ~3M premises would be instantly passed by the NBN. They too have gone silent.
I know that you weren't replying to me, but I share nayfie's frustration over the high expectations that were raised over two years ago now.
AFAIK, you can purchase Telstra Cable internet now.
But only with Telstra. The upload speeds are very slow (2Mbps) with Telstra and its still too expensive once you factor in paying for the speed boost to go beyond 30Mbps. Still, I may have little option soon the way my ADSL speeds have been declining of late.
AFAIK, you can purchase Telstra Cable internet now.
Cons with Telstra HFC:
- Max US of 2.4 Mbps with Telstra vs Min US of 5 Mbps with NBN
- You can only choose between Telstra and Telstra as your RSP, and Telstra is a premier RSP
Cons with NBN HFC
- Standard DS of 23 Mbps with NBN compared to Telstra of 36 Mbps (50% more), Max DS on NBN is around 98 Mbps, with Telstra it is 116 Mbps (20% more)
- You lose your landline, and most RSPs have VoIP hard-coded into their router for the replacement, so you BYO VoIP if you want to use your BYO router (or BYO mobile for voice calls around the home).
- Everybody in your street will be sharing your local segment (all 200 of them) so contention will be more of an issue, this of course, assumes you are not also suffering from added backhaul congestion due to the high CVC charges, unless ....
- You opt for a premier RSP like Telstra who will usually provision more capacity to avoid backhaul congestion, negating any choice you have for a cheaper RSP to provide the same level of service.
So if you can get Telstra cable and negotiate a good deal (and now is the time to do this) I would jump at it. Conversely if you have Telstra cable and are pining for NBN HFC remember "Be careful what you wish for".
saying that it meant that ~3M premises would be instantly passed by the NBN.
Anyone who claimed these premises would be "instantly" put on NBN was obviously misinformed or ignorant.
But I think the general consensus was that it is easier, quicker and cheaper to reuse the existing HFC infrastructure and adopt the parts of it that make sense (mostly the last mile part) into the NBN. While judgement is still out on that, I still believe it was a good plan.
At the end of the day, HFC can be great, or it can be horrible, and it will come down to how the NBN and RSPs provision and maintain it. If it is implemented well, with enough node splits and minimal congestion, it has the potential to be a suitable network for the vast majority of users. Alternatively if it's done on the cheap, it can easily turn into a disaster. As the saying goes, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Anyone who claimed these premises would be "instantly" put on NBN was obviously misinformed or ignorant.
no, but the odds are some people will use them as "premises passed" as it is now not important that they actually be connected, unlike the claims made on previous management
no, but the odds are some people will use them as "premises passed"
I think they'd need to be very careful about this given (i) the number of premises within the footprint lacking a lead-in (eg something like 50% of my suburb) and (ii) the incredible, unforgivable innaccuracy of Telstra's records
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
I think they'd need to be very careful about this
All that matters is the influence on the next election.
If the Coalition get over the line they have 3 years to sort it out or for people to forget the lies.
If it is implemented well, with enough node splits and minimal congestion, it has the potential to be a suitable network for the vast majority of users. Alternatively if it's done on the cheap, it can easily turn into a disaster.
Some interesting facts to consider in this regard:
- The NBN corporate plan has HFC as the cheapest MTM technology, even compared to FTTN which does NOT required any lead-in work to the premises (in HFC areas one can assume around 50% of premises will require lead-ins, and this is the main reason why FTTP is so expensive, and yet HFC will be so cheap?)
- NBN have stated they are relying on D3.1 to obviate the need for node splits (also expensive if these are physical splits), but you don't get something for nothing, if D3.1 is to make more effective use of the spectrum this may require the electronics to be upgraded. I note part of Telstra's management includes "limited upstream in-field activities" which underscores the problematic nature of the HFC upstream (to provide 40 Mbps for 200 premises per segment)
So I suspect NBN will HFC will not be as fast and cheap and like FTTN will be more expensive than first thought. Whether it will be more expensive than FTTN is an interesting question too, this I think depends on the lead-in field work and level of upstream capability improvements required.
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
I think they'd need to be very careful about this given (i) the number of premises within the footprint lacking a lead-in (eg something like 50% of my suburb) and (ii) the incredible, unforgivable innaccuracy of Telstra's records
doesn't stop them declaring FTTN ADAs as ready for service, yet no premises in some ADAs can be connected for some unspecified "technical problem", but they still count as "premises passed"
doesn't stop them declaring FTTN ADAs as ready for service, yet no premises in some ADAs can be connected for some unspecified "technical problem", but they still count as "premises passed"
Wasn't that yet another of their bitches against the previous NBNCo and the real NBN? The fact that so many premises within an RFS area couldn't actually connect ...
The NBN corporate plan has HFC as the cheapest MTM technology, even compared to FTTN which does NOT required any lead-in work to the premises
It requires putting down significantly more fiber though. At least in theory.
(in HFC areas one can assume around 50% of premises will required lead-ins,
I'd be very surprised if the number is anywhere near 50%. I'd guess that that's a worst case scenario in some suburbs. But since neither of us have any information to back up our claims, our guesses aren't really worth much.
NBN have stated they are relying on D3.1 to obviate the need for node splits
No, they have said that DOCSIS 3.1 will require less node splits to achieve the same standard that they have in mind. This statement is factually correct, no matter how you look at it.
So I suspect NBN will HFC will not be as fast and cheap and like FTTN will be more expensive than first thought
At this point in time, there are too many unknown variables in NBN's HFC for anyone to know how the resulting network will perform. As I said, it has the potential to be great, or to be a total disaster. We simply don't have enough information to make informed observations right now.
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
Wasn't that yet another of their bitches against the previous NBNCo and the real NBN? The fact that so many premises within an RFS area couldn't actually connect ...
apparently, yet those that were "super critical" of the "premises passed" metric are now using it as their claim to success
We simply don't have enough information to make informed observations right now.
I agree!
But nonetheless the off-the-wall commentary on NBN HFC persists......
But nonetheless the off-the-wall commentary on NBN HFC persists..
That's the problem with a company like NBNCo, who are hiding, obfuscating or plain refusing to provide any information. People ask around and make guesses.
They are already rolling this crap HFC solution out, but there are so many questions unanswered.
- does the 18 month grace poeriod apply ie can you keep your old connection for a while and will your telephone still work for 18 months after RFS
- Is there a battery backup solution for the network?
- Can we source our own DOCSIS 3.1 modems?
- What speed tiers are available and what % constitutes a fault?
- etc
The Scarlet Pimpernel writes...
They are already rolling this crap HFC solution out
Since there are no NBN HFC SAMs which are RFS as yet...... <rolls eyes>
once you factor in paying for the speed boost to go beyond 30Mbps.
Do you need the faster speed? 30Mbps is more than enough for my family. Just moved to Telstra cable from Optus ADSL and it is great.
Do you need the faster speed? 30Mbps is more than enough for my family.
Upload speed would be a meagre 1Mbps in that case. I may at well stick with ADSL and pay substantially less, which is what I have been doing to date. We seem to be forever looking backwards in terms of potential internet applications, and for me at least Telstra HFC is just not compelling. I'll just keep using snail mail to send large files to friends and family, and not worry about off site backups or anything else that I might use such a service with decent upload speeds for if it were available. Innovation/efficiency has been successfully constrained. :-)
And this is now reflected in the official NBN rollout schedule:
http://www.nbnco.co
I notice how this document has no version or date on it. Another example of good practices from NBNtm.
Last year my area was slated for H2 2016 RFS. Is that still on track?
Last year my area was slated for H2 2016 RFS. Is that still on track?
No idea, where are you?
You may even find that your cable modem is changed when nbn� start supplying HFC based services in your area as I believe that they need all people to be on DOCSIS3.0 based connection
Telstra are currently replacing all legacy D1.1/D2.0 modems with D3.0 compliant Telstra Gateways for free AFAIK. This needs to happen before NBN can even use the HFC to clear out the spectrum for upstream.
Twice my internet has been turned off and upgraded so now I am according to my modem on DOCSIS 2.0 which is giving me consistent 38Mbps and I am not supposed to be on NBN until mid next year.
You should ask for Telstra to upgrade to a Telstra Gateway which they will do for free since you need to be on D3.0 (see https://www.telstra.com.au/broadband/cable-upgrade )
Have had the NBN HFC box installed on the wall outside a couple of weeks ago now � Joondalup/WA. Looked like they were doing most of our street. The guys doing the install said that more info will get sent in the mail, but haven't received anything yet.
I wouldnt mind seeing a snapshot of the spectrum at someones coax point in their home, if anyone is so inclined as to place a spectrum analyser on the port and take a picture.
I wouldnt mind seeing a snapshot of the spectrum at someones coax point in their home, if anyone is so inclined as to place a spectrum analyser on the port and take a picture.
This posted from saltspork earlier this year after the Arris CMTS upgrades:
https://imgur.com/yirTUHl
So where do you think NBN is going to squeeze in?
So where do you think NBN is going to squeeze in?
Seen this one, I'm more interested in what it looks like today from a trial site.
I believe they will sit their carriers either side of the Telstra stacks (~275mhz-350mhz, and ~550-575mhz).
Seen this one, I'm more interested in what it looks like today from a trial site.
Well that won't happen until June when Redcliffe goes RFS.
And even then it all depends on what is coexisting on the Redcliffe HFC which I understand is Optus (so no Foxtel?).
I am more interested in the upstream bandwidth allocation and sharing with Telstra (currently 4 of the available 8 channels), as that is much more constrained (4 channels only provides 125 Mbps, optimistically shared only with the 100-200 users on the same segment).
Well that won't happen until June when Redcliffe goes RFS.
And even then it all depends on what is coexisting on the Redcliffe HFC which I understand is Optus (so no Foxtel?).
Optus HFC carries the Foxtel signals as well (my parents at Clontarf have an "Optus TV featuring Foxtel" STB). As to what frequencies it is using, I couldn't tell you that.
How do you explain slide 15 of the presentation? which clearly states
Two devices will be required in the premise
Device 1) Network Termination Device/Modem: supplied, configured and maintained by nbn
Device2) Gateway. Typically supplied, configured and maintained by the service provider
Anyone know the repercussions for bridging the gateway with another router?
Or, is the Telstra gateway able to be configured for DNS and voip etc?
Anyone know the repercussions for bridging the gateway with another router?
nothing, if your chosen router meets all your needs :-)
Not sure if this will apply with HFC and NBN but I checked MyBroadband last week and my address came up with an A rating for HFC. Does this mean when I eventually get connected to NBN I will get vastly better speeds than now. Is there any chance I could get 100Mbps as a speed or does that depend on how many houses are using HFC in the area.
or does that depend on how many houses are using HFC in the area.
this.
the A rating is really just because HFC speeds for en user doesn't decline based on distance like DSL.
Not sure if this will apply with HFC and NBN but I checked MyBroadband last week and my address came up with an A rating for HFC.
That site and its ratings mean nothing, and will be even less meaningful if/when all premises in an area get moved to HFC.
Is there any chance I could get 100Mbps as a speed or does that depend on how many houses are using HFC in the area.
If you pay for up-to-100Mbps then you'll probably connect at that speed... whether you'll be able to transfer data at anywhere near that speed remains to be seen, and may well vary depending on the time of day.
If you pay for up-to-100Mbps then you'll probably connect at that speed... whether you'll be able to transfer data at anywhere near that speed remains to be seen, and may well vary depending on the time of day
Case in point � you will synch at that speed, but unless the ISP you sign up with has provisioned enough AVC bandwidth, you will be sharing some aggregated volume with a bunch of other users. End of line experiences may vary between customers.
ahem....3....atm...
I assumed 4 from memory where there are two channels for 359 MHz DS and another two channels for the 438 MHz band. However since Telstra only ever use one channel and the Arris CMTS decouples the US from the DS I have no idea what Telstra really use now and will use when NBN HFC takes over. One view is that it will drop down to 2 channels and NBN can access up to 6 channels, and for 40 Mbps you would need at least 2 bonded US channels (but these can only be shared to a small group of users on the same shared segment).
but unless the ISP you sign up with has provisioned enough AVC bandwidth, you will be sharing some aggregated volume with a bunch of other users. End of line experiences may vary between customers.
And how this dovetails with contention on the HFC shared segment is another worry. That is the rub with HFC. The RSP can soft control the AVC bandwidth, but only NBN can hard control the lower layer contention on the physical network. The user won't know the difference, hopefully NBN or the RSP will to address any perceived problems with congestion (AVC capacity) versus contention (HFC sharing).
I assumed 4 from memory
Yeah its 3 for the time being. As more customers are switched over to NBN, then they will light more carriers up (and Telstra will shut more down)
And how this dovetails with contention on the HFC shared segment is another worry
I believe they may be targeting for 200subs / segment....dont quote me on it.
That is plenty of bandwidth.
I believe they may be targeting for 200subs / segment....dont quote me on it.
That is plenty of bandwidth.
But what is the CIR for DS and US? I think that is what they design for? With 8 bonded channels for DS this provides around 445 Mbps which with 200 fully active users (worse case) provides a CIR of 445/200 = 2.22 Mbps. I though from the SR they were at something > 5 Mbps? Maybe they can and will access more than 8 channels?
For US, if we assume 6 channels this provides around 150 Mbps and CIR of 0.762 Mbps, worse than ADSL! Yes again we see with HFC D3.0 the US will be the Achilles heel not the DS.
DISCLAIMER: I am basing the above on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS.
Essentially correct if you assume zero contention. No network anywhere in the world runs with zero contention though.
For example, comcast run between 20:1 and 50:1.
Multiply your figures by 20 and 50 to see what the available contended bandwidth would be like, for a weighted average use-case.
This is a HFC amplifier:
This is a HFC Node:
Thanks Luca, but I was wondering about what boxes may be on the footpath, if any?
We've got a Telstra concrete pillar at the end of the street, which I know is for phones, there are short (300 � 400mm) green square plastic boxes along one side & taller (500mm) on the other side of the street. Both are marked Danger � Electricity, & I know the taller ones are the Energex "pits" (for want of a better word!).
Would all the HFC gear be hidden away down in the existing Telstra pits?
Thanks Luca, but I was wondering about what boxes may be on the footpath, if any?
Telstra's HFC network is virtually all underground � typically their amplifiers are pit-mounted and their optical nodes are pedestal-mounted.
there are short (300 � 400mm) green square plastic boxes along one side & taller (500mm) on the other side of the street.
You're describing what sounds like a pedestal casing. If the box is Telstra-badged and sitting nearby a Telstra pit, good chance it is a a pedestal-mounted optical node. Photo would help ID it.
Telstra's HFC network is virtually all underground � typically their amplifiers are pit-mounted and their optical nodes are pedestal-mounted.
Depends on the area. Around me, they are all on poles. And the power supplies do make a rather annoying buzzing sound.
Depends on the area. Around me, they are all on poles. And the power supplies do make a rather annoying buzzing sound.
Which is the exception not the rule, also be sure that the buzzing isn't the electricity company boost transformer rather than the Telstra equipment ;)
In Sydney there are loads of areas where you can see both Optus and Telstra on the poles. So I wouldn't say it's the exception at all...
In Sydney there are loads of areas where you can see both Optus and Telstra on the poles. So I wouldn't say it's the exception at all...
Same in Brisbane. Most houses in cabled areas have two overheads going from the pole to the house (three if you include power). eg my suburb looks like this https://db.tt/hLEdiMep
Thanks Luca, but I was wondering about what boxes may be on the footpath, if any?
Luca was close � these are the actual nodes being used;
https://www.arris.com/produc
Which is the exception not the rule, also be sure that the buzzing isn't the electricity company boost transformer rather than the Telstra equipment ;)
Id say that a majority of South Australia is above ground. The buzzing is the power supply and battery backup attached to the amps. Its a nasty little install � done on the cheap.
Interestingly enough, the cable and the amps are above ground on my street, but the taps are in the pit.
Surprise so few commented on the dire consequences for those of us in HFC areas from this:
http://www.buddeblog.co
So the logic is that if operators are going to try and fix the upstream element of the network (this is the Achilles heel of the HFC network), it could add up to be more expensive than an FTTH overbuild,
This is a very substantial amount of work. If operators take the upstream beyond 75 MHz, then the set top boxes (STB) will also have to be changed. And this all assumes that TV�s are no longer plugged directly into the cable,
So it looks like D3.1 will only improve the upstream speeds ovew D3.0 when HFC is only used for broadband (not pay TV). Not only this but real costs with:
Changing that split requires changing every diplexer in every active component in the network.
NBNCo's thinking is certainly short term. I think D3.1 is just an idea for them in the same way FTTdp is and too bad there have been no leaks on the reports (which mus exist) that D3.1 will be an expensive proposition if deployed properly.
So good luck with those expecting 40 Mbps uploads for everybody. As I have said before it will be an illusion only sustained by the lack of killer apps which make heavy use of upstream unnecessary for most users.
So it looks like D3.1 will only improve the upstream speeds ovew D3.0 when HFC is only used for broadband (not pay TV)
With NBN Co looking to do a 360 on the only parts of the HFC Network that were designated to be Foxtel Pay TV over HFC free from having dedicated spectrum allocated as opposed to just running over the plain old internet (Optus HFC only parts of the Network), where's it going to leave us.
To get higher upload speeds than on the Telstra HFC parts of the Network you might need to relocate to an Optus HFC only location (Or FTTN/B/P location)?
Will Telstra HFC have the worst maximum upload speeds of the HFC of all of the FTTX and HFC Technology types?
Will Telstra HFC have the worst maximum upload speeds of the HFC of all of the FTTX and HFC Technology types?
I stopped short of saying that too.
When NBN HFC comes around I will not be in any hurry to switch over. This depends on what deals Telstra offer me on with free speedboost to 50/20 so I keep my 36 Mbps DS, keep my current $10/month discount and of course be offered 400Gb instead of 200Gb on the M bundle.
I am not prepared to pay more for NBN with less on offer (25 Mbps vs 35 Mbps now).
Of course I am not factoring in the order magnitude improvement in upstream since a) I don't really need that much upstream unless I will be working from home more often and b) I don't trust NBN to deliver consistent upstream performance once I become accustomed to / start depending on it ("wow 20 Mbps so many things I can start using it for that I never knew possible with 1.2 Mbps" ... ignorance truly is bliss, the LNP credo of course).
battery backup attached to the amps
Amps are powered by voltage sent down the trunk, not AC and have no battery backups, the optical nodes are powered by AC and also have no battery backups, on the Telstra network at least
And this all assumes that TV�s are no longer plugged directly into the cable,
Quotes from a so called expert that doesn't even know the basics about the system. Foxtel cable can't be plugged directly into a tv as the tv doesn't have the DRM required to extract the signal. I am fairly certain that even with the DRM, that most if not all tvs could extract the signal.
Will Telstra HFC have the worst maximum upload speeds of the HFC of all of the FTTX and HFC Technology types?
That has yet to be seen, but there are several factors you are over looking.
1) Only 15% or so are opting for the 100/40Mbps plans.
2) Significant spectrum has been released just by removing the DOCSIS 1.1 modems.
3) Telstra always had more uplink capacity, but chose not to make it available.
4) The streaming boom has meant that the balance between down link and uplink demand has moved back towards the downlink again.
Our council (Newington, NSW) had a meeting in December 2015 with Telstra representatives saying they would provide an HFC Network to our suburb.
Received a letter on 15th January confirming this with a rollout plan stating first individual service orders would commence on 1st May 2016. There was an email address provided for questions if we had them � newington@team.telstra.com
It's now the middle of May and we've had no word on anything. I sent an email asking what was happening but received no response. I then tweeted at Telstra but was directed to this website � http://exchange.telstra.com.au/category/telstra-news/ � which I've found extremely difficult to navigate.
How would I go about finding out the state of the HFC Network upgrade? Thanks in advance!
Quotes from a so called expert that doesn't even know the basics about the system. Foxtel cable can't be plugged directly into a tv as the tv doesn't have the DRM required to extract the signal
Its based on the American system. The CaTV networks over there were first started in the 50's to deliver community access television where antennas didn't or couldn't work. This then evolved into the model we know today for cable TV. In the US even today they broadcast what we have as DVB-T over cable unencrypted and that can just have a TV plugged into the cable.
Its based on the American system.
I know, which as you say is different to the set up here. My point is the "expert" is just taking information about USA based systems and assuming it is the same here.
Our council (Newington, NSW) had a meeting in December 2015 with Telstra representatives saying they would provide an HFC Network to our suburb.
I think you will find the information has become confused along the line somewhere. If you don't have HFC in the street, then you are not getting an upgrade to HFC. It now appears that infill will more than likely be FTTN, but it will depend on the actual situation.
The meeting would be with the council and nbn (co) as Telstra is a contractor to nbn (co) in regard to HFC expansion and upgrading to NBN system. Telstra is still doing upgrades to the capacity on their existing HFC network and new installs within their existing footprint (where nbn is not RFS).
My point is the "expert" is just taking information about USA based systems and assuming it is the same here.
The only difference between USA and AUS are standards not the engineering limitations which are the same. The issue with splitting the signal to a TV is described as:
DOCSIS 3.1 does support upstream capacity with much more bandwidth, but to do that, operators have to increase the amount of spectrum allocated to the upstream service, so it is more symmetrical. Right now, in North America, the HFC cable operators run �subsplit� upstream: 5-42 MHz on the upstream, and 50-860 or 1 GHz in the downstream. Changing that split requires changing every diplexer in every active component in the network.
In AUS the D3.0 split frequencies I think are 15 to 60 Mhz for the upstream which still doesn't give you much in the way of upstream capacity
This is a very substantial amount of work. If operators take the upstream beyond 75 MHz, then the set top boxes (STB) will also have to be changed. And this all assumes that TV�s are no longer plugged directly into the cable, otherwise they will need a low pass filter installed, because the cable modem transmits at up to 1000x the power of the downstream, and if they go past 50 Mhz the hi-pass filter on the TV won�t protect its frontend against a signal that strong.
I assume this applies here if the modem starts transmitting at such a high power that it overpowers the TV input and causes crosstalk on all channels. Than again doesn't this mean you just need a different type of splitter for the correct filtering? Presumably when the current D3.0 modems NBN will be using are replaced by D3.1 modems this will also include the required splitter for future restacking of the DS/US spectrum. Or is it more complicated than that?
Not only does this upgrade create a large amount of work it will also potentially causes a large amount of network downtime as the HFC plant gets rebuilt.
Which seems to already be the case with NBN HFC Builds if the Telstra service status HFC downtimes in 6JDL-6X are anything to go by.
Changing a diplexer and a return transmitter in a node is easy (if the return transmitters aren't already 200 MHz....I suspect they are).
All the return path lasers in the telstra network at the head-end side, are already 200 MHz capable. All the return path receivers and amplifiers � you guessed it, 200 MHz capable.
All the cable modems being sold by NBN in their upcoming HFC product release, will be D3.1 capable (running initially in D3.0 mode, but they are 3.1 modems).
No TV in the country plugs directly into the HFC network, the RF loading on there alone would let the smoke get out. The foxtel STB's dont use the return path to transmit back down the network, and if you want to occupy the up-to 200 MHz band, you just move your forward path carriers, in a spectrum-rearrangement-process.
The STB doesn't need anything special there. There is high isolation between the directional coupler output/input's at the customers homes, so no amount of high-power-tx coming from the CM to the CMTS, will find its way back up to the TV or STB.
Basically a lot of scare-mongering.
Commissioning a report does not put the independence of the report into question, in my opinion.
ha ha ha ha
next you will be saying that polical donations do not influence government policy either.
Follow the money people!
Commissioning a report does not put the independence of the report into question, in my opinion.
Really, even when the report is deliberately limited to a 4 year period when the NBN was supposed to provide infrastructure for the next 60+ years?
Does not compute!!
Commissioning a report does not put the independence of the report into question, in my opinion.
It definitely does, not least because the commissioner sets the terms of reference (and controls the purse strings for future commissions).
Most medical scientific research is paid for by one of the big pharmaceutical companies. That does not by itself invalidate the results of said research, for example.
It taints it if the researchers don't set their own terms of reference and scope of inquiry.
This just makes no sense to me, not because HFC isn't capacity constrained, but because NBN Co are under their design rules are putting a CMTS in every FAN site or at worst case aggregation node. There is going to be spare capacity in every single one of these unless they drop that down closer to 400 subscribers per segment. Also it would mean virtual splits on Telstra optical nodes as they already target 200-400 premises, and it makes no sense to increase that ratio
Remember that Telstra nodes are only connecting a low percentage of the premises passed with Cable Internet � and the Telstra cable is designed for this. In cable areas, many uses either cant get it, or simply choose not to, however, under NBN will no longer have this choice. The infill will significantly increase this number. So yes, they probably will be increasing the numbers per segment..
So yes, they probably will be increasing the numbers per segment..
little steve is quoting typical figures for premises passed per segment (including those without a lead-in) which will not increase under NBN (barring subdivision of blocks etc). The number of active subscribers per node will obviously increase significantly, however at least on Telstra's network the targets can be reached by way of virtual splits.
The Optus network will need more segmentation through upgrading or installing new optical nodes out in the field to reach design targets.
would mean virtual splits on Telstra optical nodes as they already target 200-400 premises, and it makes no sense to increase that ratio
So what is the report stating 500 premises / segment or is a segment not the same as a node split (be it virtual or physical)? Also the report states 3x US channels whereas some here were of the view it would be at least 4 US channels (which Telstra has access to) and maybe more (Telstra does not use all 4 channels, in fact they only use one at any one time).
And little steve and saltspork do you believe:
From the perspective of peak average bandwidth per user, our forecasts suggest that network upgrades such as node splitting, greater channel bonding and the introduction of DOCSIS 3.1 features are likely to be required from around 2020, particularly in high-traffic areas.
You both have the technical background so are you surprised with some of the NBN design choices being indicated or is this what you expected?
Not sure "makes no sense" you are referring to little steve (no sense in what is stated in the report or no sense in what some of us critics here are saying?).
So what is the report stating 500 premises / segment or is a segment not the same as a node split (be it virtual or physical)?
In the context of the report and the target of 500 premises, a "segment" would be whatever logical group of premises are being delivered the same RF signal from the CMTS (and thus sharing the same pool of bandwidth).
On Telstra's network, the number of premises passed by a single optical node is typically 200-400 (little steve's figure, which is consistent with my observations). This node has fibre running back to the exchange. In an area with a reasonably large number of active subscriptions, this optical node may get its own CMTS port corresponding to a single "segment" in the above context. In cases where there are fewer premises passed by the node and/or low take-up, a single RF signal may be shared between two (or more) of these optical nodes forming a larger "segment".
If demand increases on the area where a single signal is shared between multiple nodes, an extra port on the CMTS port can be assigned and each node can receive a separate RF signal, forming two "segments". This is a "virtual split", and does not require replacing any equipment in the field. After this has been performed, this area has the same configuration as the first example area.
If demand increases further still, a "physical" split would take place. The old node in the field is replaced with a segmentable node. This is still served by the existing fibre from the exchange, however multiple RF signals are sent down the fibre at different wavelengths. The nodes NBN Co plan to use (and apparently some have already been deployed by Telstra and Optus) are 4x4 segmentable, basically 1 fibre in, 4 separate RF ports out.
At the exchange side, an extra CMTS port is assigned. Two separate RF signals go into the optics in the exchange, which are then multiplexed onto a single fibre to go to the node. At this point the physical node has been segmented in 2. If demand continues to grow, the same procedure can be repeated. 4 RF signals into optics, 4 wavelengths over fibre, 4 RF ports out from the node.
The Optus network will require more in the way of this "physical" segmentation, as the number of premises currently passed by each node is considerably higher.
Also the report states 3x US channels whereas some here were of the view it would be at least 4 US channels (which Telstra has access to) and maybe more.
Depending on how clean the upstream is, there is the possibility to go below 20MHz. NBN Co are playing it safe and only using 3, which is of most significance during transition. Of course, as subscribers switch over the incumbents can progressively switch off upstream channels and NBN Co can light more up during transition.
Telstra does not use all 4 channels, in fact they only use one at any one time
False. An individual CM is only assigned to one channel at a time (Telstra don't enable bonding), but they do run 4 upstream channels and modems are load balanced between them.
saltspork do you believe:
Yes. Like I say, I have no reason to disagree with anything in section 7 of the report.
You both have the technical background so are you surprised with some of the NBN design choices being indicated or is this what you expected?
NBN Co's engineers are competent, they're doing the best they can within the constraints of the SoE. HFC's upgrade path is incremental, there is no benefit to deploying deep fibre years ahead of demand.
Without wanting to put words in little steve's mouth, I believe he is saying that it would make no sense not to take advantage of relatively cheap virtual splits on Telstra's network. Otherwise the capacity of the E6000's is going to waste given how many will be deployed.
Yes
Yep, I'm of this opinion too. It will be adequate in the short term.
with HFC is not that it can't do it, with enough money of course it can, and future it can keep up with demand.
The problem has always been at what cost. It's expensive to maintain, and expensive to upgrade.
NBN Co's engineers are competent, they're doing the best they can within the constraints of the SoE
This right here. I'm not arguing they are incompetent, I think the idea of bulking a bunch of nodes together to bring Telstra up to 900 per segment when all that spare capacity is just sitting there is bizarre, I don't know why that would happen and I don't know it's the authors of the report misunderstanding, or a management decision gone sideways.
I've searched through the thread without being able to find an answer on this. Will NBN HFC be available in June 2016 as planned? Is this something need to roll out to areas progressively or will it happen pretty much in one hit?
No � it will be rolled out progressively. NBN areas need a host of upgrades to support NBN. Some areas are mentioned in the rollout docs.
Supposedly, no Telstra areas will be before July 2016.
Will NBN HFC be available in June 2016 as planned?
Only a very few places will switch to nbn HFC in June. Most will not change until much later. The dates quoted are normally the start of construction, not completion.
Will NBN HFC be available in June 2016 as planned?
3WHL-62 (which isn't on the rollout map) has a Ready for Service date for NBN HFC between 17th June and 11th November.
Only a very few places will switch to nbn HFC in June. Most will not change until much later. The dates quoted are normally the start of construction, not completion.
With the start of the construction phase being the not the back of a paper napkin design task.
With the start of the construction phase being the not the back of a paper napkin design task.
It seems that those without HFC lead-ins are being notified of NBN installaton happening, whereas those of us with existing HFC lead-ins get nothing, and the area is then declared in Build for NBN with an RFS date corresponding to the HFC lead-in / infill work period. This is from posts I have read regarding what is happening in WA.
So NBN HFC is probably no more than NBN using the D1.1 spectrum now being vacated by Telstra ... and that's it .. instant NBN!
So there is in fact no design phase as such, only an initial audit of lead-ins and infill work when they inspect the pits and ducts, then straight onto the "Build". The only design phase is the decision to go ahead with HFC or FTTN, and that won't take long if its 100% HFC. Easy peasy!
I'm in an HFC area that is all underground. When everyone is thrown onto the service in my area, and the inevitable upgrade has to occur (to reduce the number of houses per segment) can they be placed underground?
I.e. can the fibre<->coax converters be placed underground, and how would that work with the requirement that they be powered?
I.e. can the fibre<->coax converters be placed underground
Yes. These units already exist within the network, they are "optical nodes". Telstra's nodes (or as they call them, "hubs") normally exist underground otherwise where this isn't possible (e.g. pit too small) they are mounted inside green pedestals.
how would that work with the requirement that they be powered?
They're already powered via the coax itself, AC power is stepped down to a lower voltage through a small transformer mounted on an a utility pole and then injected along the same coax cable as the signal in order to supply power to nodes and amplifiers.
When everyone is thrown onto the service in my area, and the inevitable upgrade has to occur (to reduce the number of houses per segment)
Most of Telstra's nodes serve a small enough area that segmentation in the field isn't required initially, there's still untapped capacity that can be utilised from the exchange side. In the medium term, existing nodes can be replaced and segmented without running new cable (coax, fibre, or electrical) or installing equipment in new locations. Long term, further segmentation will come from replacing amplifiers with nodes. These are already powered, however fibre will need to be extended to the amplifiers. Again for the most part this will not involve installing big boxes in new locations, instead replacing existing boxes (underground in your case).
Don't let NBN Co see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ga_8CNaJjI
They might get some ideas...
(Time Warner lays new cable across neighbours lawn, instead of running it internally or trenching it)
That orange coax is used by US cable companies for temporary drops until they can arrange for trenching, not very exciting. Not normally laid through neighbouring property without notice, however I believe US cablecos have right of way to run cables in instances like this.
It's also mentioned that the subscriber in this video is switching from their local FTTP provider to HFC, make of that what you will.
(Time Warner lays new cable across neighbours lawn, instead of running it internally or trenching it)
Telstra techs have actually been doing this with phone cables for the last 12 months. No point doing a proper job when its NBN's problem as soon as an area goes rfs.
It's also mentioned that the subscriber in this video is switching from their local FTTP provider to HFC, make of that what you will.
Probably due to preferential pricing bundles. Most of the HFC providers are so desperate to stem the flow of cord cutters, they'll offer near free internet to those who will bundle it with Pay TV.
Once full structural separation has been achieved, the first item on the agenda will to replace all the bits that Telstra still owns.
....response moved to whrl.pl/ReDIjX
Mod note
We need to get back onto the main HFC topic!
Lots of herring building up on this thread.
Don't reply to this post, use TWAM if required.
Has this been mentioned before? From the Integrated Product Roadmap released April 2016
This is scheduled for Q4 2016:
CE045
HFC DOCSIS 3.1 NTD INITIAL DEPLOYMENT
Introduction of the DOCSIS 3.1 compatible NTD for HFC.
I guess these will operate in D3.0 mode until sometime in 2017 when nbn is planning to move to D3.1
There are no FTTN areas in this state yet.
Cough....19th century copper based FTTN in WA. Of course, thanks to the skills of the supposed professionals, some of the lucky few then got this.
Back OT, as there is not a lot of HFC in WA, per the norm we won't see much activity for some years yet.
Back OT, as there is not a lot of HFC in WA, per the norm we won't see much activity for some years yet.
Some WA areas are/were Telstra HFC NBN Construction build H2 2016 and RFS H1 2017 (forecast as at Sep/Oct 2015). Some of this is in areas with underground power only.
Some WA areas are/were Telstra HFC NBN Construction build H2 2016 and RFS H1 2017 (forecast as at Sep/Oct 2015).
FYI, ocean reef, joondalup, yangebup, south lake, winthrop, murdoch, bull creek, to mention a few recently and entering Build for NBN HFC.
FYI, ocean reef, joondalup, yangebup, south lake, winthrop, murdoch, bull creek, to mention a few recently and entering Build for NBN HFC.
Yep though some of those areas according to NBN (I know not reliable) are meant for RFS the 2nd half of 2016. Im sure that is unlikely to happen.
DO they need to deploy Fibre like they would for FTTP or FTTN for HFC. I have seen a lot of NBN workers in Yangebup where I live and haven't seen any Fibre being deployed.
Has this been mentioned before? From the Integrated Product Roadmap released April 2016
This is scheduled for Q4 2016:
CE045
HFC DOCSIS 3.1 NTD INITIAL DEPLOYMENT
Introduction of the DOCSIS 3.1 compatible NTD for HFC.
I guess these will operate in D3.0 mode until sometime in 2017 when nbn is planning to move to D3.1
I think it was in last Senate Select Committee nbn� said that they will be rolling out DOCSIS 3.0 modems as there are no 3.1 in production.
With some statements coming out of some of the network operators in the USA, the modems may not even go into production as the networks seem to be now moving away from deploying DOCSIS 3.1 as it will cost a lot to make their HFC networks suitable for DOCSIS 3.1, they may jump straight to fibre rather than doing that spend, some are actually doing this now, they will not connect any new customers on HFC or copper twisted pair
So will nbn� be able to roll out any DOCSIS 3.1 modems, only time will tell
currently get around 90Mbps on the Optus network without breaking an sweat anytime of the day or night...
I am in Wheelers Hill too with Optus, getting local speed ranging between 50Mbps to 100Mpbs depends on time of the day.
However, international speed is really bad, to Asia download speed is constantly below 2 Mbps and below 5Mbps to the US. Are you experiencing the same?
According to the Optus Service Staus page, there will be a planned upgrade from 7:30am tomorrow for a week, hope the service will improve, as it seems that NBN will be relying on the Optus infrastructure here in 3WHL-62.
I think it was in last Senate Select Committee nbn� said that they will be rolling out DOCSIS 3.0 modems as there are no 3.1 in production.
This item was added to the roadmap after the hearing in question, reflecting that Arris are beginning production of the modems.
With some statements coming out of some of the network operators in the USA, the modems may not even go into production as the networks seem to be now moving away from deploying DOCSIS 3.1 as it will cost a lot to make their HFC networks suitable for DOCSIS 3.1
Support this with evidence. As with most developments in HFC, US MSO's were one of the main forces behind the development of D3.1. They are keen to deploy.
Support this with evidence. As with most developments in HFC, US MSO's were one of the main forces behind the development of D3.1. They are keen to deploy.
Anybody in the industry here accessed this report (presumably free download)?
http://www.btrepor
Regarding D3.1 modems themselves, across in the USA:
http://www.dslreports.co
I am in Wheelers Hill too with Optus, getting local speed ranging between 50Mbps to 100Mpbs depends on time of the day.
Interesting. My speed is very constant... it does dip below 80Mbps occasionally in the evening but not often.
However, international speed is really bad, to Asia download speed is constantly below 2 Mbps and below 5Mbps to the US. Are you experiencing the same?
No. I'm getting between 30Mbps and 50Mbps to the US. See my speed test on Monday night to San Francisco: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5382617708
According to the Optus Service Staus page, there will be a planned upgrade from 7:30am tomorrow for a week, hope the service will improve, as it seems that NBN will be relying on the Optus infrastructure here in 3WHL-62.
Honestly... it will probably get worse with NBN in Wheeler's Hill for the next 18 months, and after that it will get better.
This is because NBNCo are going to move all the current Telstra HFC, Optus HFC, Foxtel, ADSL customers onto the same physical HFC cable (presumably the current Optus one). The way they will do this will be by segmenting the spectrum/channels. So Telstra will get an allocated spectrum, Optus another, Foxtel another, etc... then any NBN migrated customers will be separate too.
At the end of the 18 month period, all customers would have been moved to NBN and the full potential of NBN's upgraded HFC will be realised, by freeing up the separate Telstra and Optus HFC channels (I'm not sure about Foxtel, presumably they will continue to have a dedicated slice of the HFC pie in the post-NBN world).
It will be interesting, but from what I gather... NBN on HFC will be journey for its customers, it won't provide the immediate benefit that FTTP or even FTTN customers enjoy.
Having said all of that... that is just my interpretation of the publicly available information. It might all go swimmingly from the day we are cut over.
This is because NBNCo are going to move all the current Telstra HFC, Optus HFC, Foxtel, ADSL customers onto the same physical HFC cable (presumably the current Optus one). The way they will do this will be by segmenting the spectrum/channels. So Telstra will get an allocated spectrum, Optus another, Foxtel another, etc... then any NBN migrated customers will be separate too
Hence the 900 houses per segment at RFS � with a goal of 500 in 18 months time. Thats going to hurt!
Hence the 900 houses per segment at RFS � with a goal of 500 in 18 months time. Thats going to hurt!
Yep. On day one, under NBN there will be just 0.91Mbps upload on average per household. It's going to be interesting.
I'm not sure whether I'll upgrade to NBN on Day One. It might be prudent to stay on Optus HFC until the 11th hour.
It will be interesting, but from what I gather... NBN on HFC will be journey for its customers, it won't provide the immediate benefit that FTTP or even FTTN customers enjoy.
Precisely why if you are on Telstra HFC now and don't suffer from any congestion, the best is to wait until the 17th month your area goes RFS to take up NBN, otherwise you will be in a lot of pain with a very much compromised transition period which will get worse as everybody starts to jump on board.
It might be prudent to stay on Optus HFC until the 11th hour.
On Telstra so may be in a better position to start with, but yeah I kind of agree. Really depends on what kind of spectrum split there is for Telstra HFC vs NBN HFC customers, and how the congestion plays out locally. If everyone jumps on NBN early in the game then it may leave the telstra spectrum in pretty good shape ;)
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