Yea im with Telstra cable with speedboost and i'm hoping i can close to your iinet speeds once Telstra HFC gets upgraded to NBN/DOSCIS 3.1
i'm hoping i can close to your iinet speeds
You won't.
The deployment of DOCSIS 3.1 by NBN, if/when it actually happens, won't be to increase maximum speed.
The deployment of DOCSIS 3.1 by NBN, if/when it actually happens, won't be to increase maximum speed.
Mr Steiger said the cost of delivering the hybrid-fibre coaxial (HFC) portion of the network is unlikely to move higher even as the infrastructure is upgraded to DOCSIS 3.1 standard � capable of delivering symmetrical multi-gigabit broadband speeds � in 2018.
�DOCSIS 3.1 won�t lead to a significant uptick in prices and is only required for those customers that choose high speeds, DOCSIS 3.0 already supports up to gigabit per second,� Mr Steiger told The Australian.
�The upgrade is all about bandwidth efficiency so the costs will actually come down.�
Costs to NBNCo come down, but that does not infer that the cost of wholesale, retail HFC high speeds will be cheap. Just an opportunity for NBNCo to be more profitable (or less lossable) .
With NBNCo effectively saying last week that faster than 100/40 speeds with DOCSIS 3.1 will only be offered to customers who need/want it (and are prepared to pay for it).
Will DOCSIS 3.1 be like the rest of the NBN/MTM Technology choice program, where very few are actually eligible to get it, even if they need it. With those eligible for DOCSIS 3.1, facing lengthy delays in even getting initial or final quotes and then receiving massive $ quotes that make it not just unaffordable, but expose the dirty no so anymore little secret, that the Fibre is not being extended from the FTTN nodes, in providing FTTP on demand as an upgrade to FTTN?
Highly unlikely, as DOCSIS 3.1 speed upgrades (>100/40) should just be a replacement premise modem and the flick of a digital switch or 2. With one big set of caveats, in that it will only be available where
1. Your segment of the HFC Network has been upgraded to DOCSIS 3.1
2. NBNCo Network has the capacity to support DOCSIS 3.1 speeds for multiple customers at the same time
3. NBNCo decides to provide it to RSP's, as opposed to just having the capacity to provide it, in order to show any potential competition that overbuilding the HFC with FTTP is not going to be financially viable for a competitor.
4. Your RSP has the backhaul and CVC to support the extra capacity to support it
5. Your RSP is willing to retail it
With the risk that like all of the other MTM technology's, that your RSP has enough CVC to provide the increased speeds during peak hours that you have just purchased. Imagine if you purchase HFC DOCSIS 3.1 200/100 plan and find that at peak hours you still only get up to 25/5 during peak data hours, when it is peak data hours that you actually need the 200/100 speeds.
Wonder what the initial monthly retail price will be on a 200/200, 500/500 plan or a 1000/1000 plan with unlimited data? $200, $300. $500 or $1000 per month?
The deployment of DOCSIS 3.1 by NBN, if/when it actually happens, won't be to increase maximum speed.
All this talk by NBNCo in regards to FTTdp, CTTdp and of couse D3.1 is just fluff to make it look like NBNCo are cost-savvy innovators with a large investor growth potential. I don't see any of these being deployed as there is no reason for NBNCo to do this, maybe only FTTdp to replace FTTN so up to 100/40 speeds can be provided once they think the demand is there. Absolutely no reason for D3.1, if D3.0 can offer 100/40 already, at least not for residential use (not sure about business, does D3.1 provide guaranteed QoS for data?).
Absolutely no reason for D3.1
They would be upgrading to D3.1 because of the efficiency benefits which would decrease congestion, all the stuff about having faster speeds is rubbish.
all the stuff about having faster speeds is rubbish
Sure, but thats all the end user seems to be able to comprehend. They don't understand the benefits of increasing the speed/width of the shared medium. It's very different to the last mile of copper in FTTN argument.
They don't understand the benefits of increasing the speed/width of the shared medium.
This will only happen if NBNCo see the need (severe contention which they need to resolve). However from my reading there are other options they can exercise before they ever need D3.1: utilise the bandwidth vacated by Telstra and virtual splits by using more ports on the CMTS. It is only when they are faced with physical splits of the HFC segment and have used up all the available bandwidth that going to D3.1 may be more cost effective. This could be many years down the track, certainly not as early as 2017.
It is only when they are faced with physical splits of the HFC segment and have used up all the available bandwidth that going to D3.1 may be more cost effective. This could be many years down the track, certainly not as early as 2017.
Any early deployment of D3.1 is more likely to be to make the HFC appear more attractive for an early asset sale/divestment then to satisfy immediate consumer needs and demand.
does D3.1 provide guaranteed QoS for data?).
Sort of. DOCSIS 3.1 does require Active Queue Management (AQM) be included in the modems to manage the upload bandwidth and bufferbloat. The default queue management algorithm chosen for DOCSIS 3.1 modems is DOCSIS-PIE:
While DOCSIS-PIE isn't exactly the gold standard in AQM, it will do a lot to minimise induced latency under load conditions, ie. you will be able to play a game while simultaneously saturating your upload bandwidth with a large upload.
http://www.cablelabs.com/how
I use Cake (on OpenWRT) to manage my downstream and upstream bandwidth on a 100/40 Mbps TPG NBN service. Cake does a very good job at evenly sharing the available bandwidth by IP address (a feature called triple-isolation), regardless of how many connections a particular PC may be trying to make.
https://www.bufferbloat.net/
Is there any word on when existing HFC users on Optus/Telstra will be able to migrate to other resellers via the NBN?
Is there any word on when existing HFC users on Optus/Telstra will be able to migrate to other resellers via the NBN?
More or less, when NBN declares the NBN HFC service in your locality as being RFS. See the NBN rollout schedule for the current estimate on when that might be.
I moved from Telstra cable 100/2 to Optus HFC NBN 50/20 last Thursday. So far, it's been a good move.
Are you sure? The brown areas of this map indicate Optus only cable areas that look to be on track for service later this year.
(The purple bits are a new infill estate with FTTP)
Another bit of evidence for them not having given up on Optus HFC areas is in Newport VIC.
They're recently started an FTTN build in the next suburb south, Williamstown. To the north is Kingsville and Yarraville which already have FTTP. Every address I've put into the Optus cable checker that's in the brown shaded area south of Newport says ADSL. Every address in the unshaded area (Newport) says Optus cable is available. So they're deliberately leaving the Optus HFC area alone for now.
they're deliberately leaving the Optus HFC area alone for now.
Hardly surprising if NBNCo are still reporting that they have not yet finished "discussions" with Optus yet, related to the Optus HFC.
Hopefully not a repost: http://www.watoday.com.au/tec
Potentially how some of us in-fills are going to get done 8-(
I'm pretty sure you infills are NOT gonna get done. it appears that the NBN has discovered the rolling out new HFC and leadins is just as expensive (if not more expensive) that rolling out FTTP.
FTTN for you unfortunately.
I'm pretty sure you infills are NOT gonna get done. it appears that the NBN has discovered the rolling out new HFC and leadins is just as expensive (if not more expensive) that rolling out FTTP.
Read that link I posted, it wasn't about HFC for infill, was about connecting the copper to the HFC rather than a fibre node. I think that's going to be even worse.
Read that link I posted, it wasn't about HFC for infill, was about connecting the copper to the HFC rather than a fibre node. I think that's going to be even worse.
http://www.netcommwireless.c
FTTN for you unfortunately.
Boy I sure am lucky I have an existing lead-in and one cable for:
- Foxtel cable (can get all FTA channels)
- Bigpond cable
Since otherwise I would be looking at:
- Foxtel satellite only with limited FTA channels and an ugly satellite dish on the roof which goes out with heavy rains
- NBN HFC via CTTdp to my myriad phone sockets and associate copper wiring mess which gave me so much heartache with ADSL
Get in quick with your Foxtel cable order before it is too late!
Get in quick with your Foxtel cable order before it is too late!
Yeah for sure. Glad I paid for a lead-in too earlier this year.
Get in quick with your Foxtel cable order before it is too late!
Likewise, anyone that knows of anyone that has not yet taken my repeated strong recommendations over the last 12 months to get your Optus or Telstra HFC free lead-in whilst you could, should do it now before it is too late.
Boy I sure am lucky I have an existing lead-in and one cable for:
Foxtel cable (can get all FTA channels)
Yeah but!
My Foxtel comes into my family room (downstairs rear) where the TV is. That is the primary / sole use of that cable connection.
My Optus cable comes into my study (upstairs, front), where my router, initial switches, analogue phone connection wiring entry point, and servers are.
I fully expect NBN to tell me I have to pay to re-configure my wiring because they elect to change my connection point.
BTW, I cannot even tell from their website when I am planned for connection.
Faster, cheaper, quicker!
http://www.netcommwireless.
Hmm, this is a 4-port device, so if three of your neighbours have lead-ins and you don't, they have one whole CTTdp device just for you. And how the heck they use this if there is a tap in the pit already with active lead-ins? Do they run this device after the tap where your lead-in would otherwise be or deploy it independently of the tap?
Damn confusing this!
My Foxtel comes into my family room (downstairs rear) where the TV is. That is the primary / sole use of that cable connection.
My Optus cable comes into my study (upstairs, front), where my router, initial switches, analogue phone connection wiring entry point, and servers are.
I fully expect NBN to tell me I have to pay to re-configure my wiring because they elect to change my connection point.
How about cancelling your Foxtel and insisting they use the same existing point where your working Optus Cable Internet is when it comes time to set up your connection point for your NBN HFC (likely connected to the ex-Telstra HFC gear). You can then order your Foxtel again after the NBN HFC has been activated.
That should get you what you want. But you might have to insist on what you want, before you allow them into your premises and be prepared to escalate it via Social Media and to your local State and Federal MP's if there is push back.
A big risk with taking my advice, is that if you do not allow the current Telstra connection point be used for your NBN HFC, they might threaten to put you on the list of HFC to be connected via copper lead-ins, and you have to wait until any such product is ready to roll and your turn comes around on the list of the million or so that might also be earmarked for this HFC via copper lead-ins.
Phg thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate that. I will also think about it when the time finally comes. (currently on 100/2 on Optus cable, would like better upload but not unhappy). $54B?
We all know it shouldn't be like this.
What is maximum speed for NBN HFC? 100/40?
Are TPG, Telstra and Optus the only HFC RSPs at the moment?
Are TPG, Telstra and Optus the only HFC RSPs at the moment?
no. exetel is one as well
Are TPG, Telstra and Optus the only HFC RSPs at the moment?
What evidence do you have that Telstra (not Belong) is currently retailing RFS NBN HFC?
Hi there, I am in Newport too (William St). My house is at the back of a larger house (which gets the Optus cable), so no cable for me :-(
I called NBN a few months ago and they told me that:
1) Half of Newport will get FTTN and half HFC
2) no-one will be left behind (so my house will get NBN too).
Called them again just now (I have seen yr other post re: us being sandwiched between 2 NBN areas) and they told me that construction work in Newport should start Q3'16 (which is now) and shd be completed a year later. Do you have any more news on this??
I don't know about you, but I can't wait to get a decent connection ( I am with iiNet ADSL and I typically get 8mbps, as opposed to 15 on my phone through Optus 4G!).
From the NBN Ocean Reef HFC thread today, further confirmation that Telstra appears to still not ready to launch it's NBN HFC product and the challenges that NBNCo is going to have trying to convince people to migrate from consistently high 100/2 speeds on peoples current HFC, before they are forced to migrate in UP TO 18 months time after NBN starts the HFC RFS gun.
I recently received a letter from NBN saying that it was now connected in Ocean Reef, i tried my address on Telstra's site only to be told it is still being tested?
Question, currently on Cable and getting 90-100 Mb down, 2Mb up consistently � reading through the Forums, it appears that this seems to be more than the download speed people are getting on NBN.
Apart from some online gaming that the kids and i do, is it worth swapping over to the NBN considering the cable speeds are pretty good anyway? The NBN speeds seem to fluctuate alot?
From the NBN Ocean Reef HFC thread today, further confirmation that Telstra appears to still not ready to launch it's NBN HFC product and the challenges that NBNCo is going to have trying to convince people to migrate from consistently high 100/2 speeds on peoples current HFC, before they are forced to migrate in UP TO 18 months time after NBN starts the HFC RFS gun.
Yet some are arguing that takeup rate of high speed plans are lower lol. The public perception is NBN in some areas now cant match fixed wireless and Telstra HFC on speeds.
Called them again just now (I have seen yr other post re: us being sandwiched between 2 NBN areas) and they told me that construction work in Newport should start Q3'16 (which is now) and shd be completed a year later. Do you have any more news on this??
I don't know about you, but I can't wait to get a decent connection ( I am with iiNet ADSL and I typically get 8mbps, as opposed to 15 on my phone through Optus 4G!).
I've not spoken to NBN, but I got a letter nearly a year ago about our house being selected for the HFC construction trial (where they just work out the best way of getting the lead-in to your house). It was due to be done by April, but that deadline passed with no activity. A friend on William St (around the Ross St area) also had the same letter, with the same lack of activity.
You might want to look at the wiring of your house. I'm a few streets west of you (so further from the exchange on Hall St) and my Internode ADSL2 syncs at 19,000, and speed tests at about 14Mbit on a good day.
Yet some are arguing that takeup rate of high speed plans are lower lol.
If there are fears and perceptions that the up to 100/40 NBN HFC speed tier will have either lower download
- average speeds
- peak speeds
- peak hours speeds
or less reliable and more variable speeds than their current Optus or Telstra HFC up to 100/2 services,
initial takeup of the high speed NBN plans could be low, as current high speed Optus and Telstra 100/2 customers wait to see reports from users they trust (as opposed to claims from NBN or RSP's), as to what download speeds are being received and how these speeds and reliability compare with the up to 100Mbps download speeds that the migrated users used to get on Optus or Telstra up to 100/2. Whilst also keeping an eye on the level of and impact of any issues during the migration period, that result in any material disruptions and issues with existing services, continuity of services, disruption during installation/migration, and quality and the quality and reliability of fixed voice over NBN HFC.
initial takeup of the high speed NBN plans could be low, as current high speed Optus and Telstra 100/2 customers wait to see reports from users they trust
Of course, initial speed reports will be a "best case" scenario... as the first users will be running will very little contention. Things will likely get progressively worse as people migrate over, and can't churn back again.
or less reliable and more variable speeds than their current Optus or Telstra HFC up to 100/2 services,
What are the experiences of people who have already upgraded from cable internet to NBN over HFC? :)
(well I hope it's over HFC, I would be not impressed to be told the mandatory upgrade to NBN will be via ADSL over telephone line in my street!)
Apparently, a speedcheck service already says my connection speed is 80 Mbps over cable (which is I guess is idealised? fair enough... upload is only 2.5 Mbps however) for just $80/month...
would NBN be slower and cost more? Or would NBN be faster and cost less? :)
Being a mandatory upgrade to be completed within 18 months once NBN arrives in an area (IIRC), I guess some people must have already completed this upgrade? :)
I moved from Telstra cable 100/2 to Optus HFC NBN 50/20 last Thursday. So far, it's been a good move.
Excellent!
Can you tell me more about the changes in cost and data allowance? :)
An upgrade from 2 Mbps to 20 Mbps upload speed sounds nifty, whereas 100 to 50 should make no discernable difference on the download side (right?). :)
FTTN for you unfortunately.
NBN HFC via CTTdp to my myriad phone sockets and associate copper wiring mess which gave me so much heartache with ADSL
Hmmm. :/
Would you say NBN(Co) are more interested in getting it finished, regardless of a poor result, rather than providing the best possible result for customers? :)
If there are fears and perceptions that the up to 100/40 NBN HFC speed tier will have either lower download
- average speeds
- peak speeds
- peak hours speeds
or less reliable and more variable speeds than their current Optus or Telstra HFC up to 100/2 services,
WIth NBN 100/40 this is a certainty since even on FTTP (the gold standard) you get no more than around 96 Mbps download, with Telstra HFC you can get up to 115 Mbps. With Fast cable which is comparable to NBN Tier 2 you go from 36 Mbps with Telstra HFC down to around 23 Mbps with NBN HFC (much worse). Of course you can opt for the 50/20 Tier 3 but that requires an extra (costly) speedboost that you don't need with Telstra HFC.
Would you say NBN(Co) are more interested in getting it finished, regardless of a poor result, rather than providing the best possible result for customers? :)
Nbn� is running out of government money, so as cheap as possible is the expected result.
I know someone's probably asked this already but why can't they just hand over the current HFC users to the NBN now. Surely it doesn't take 2 years to transfer users who already have a working service.
Won't it be (slightly) more expensive and slightly slower (apart from uploads) from what I gather, plus more potential congestion etc. Are you sure you want that?
3. Increasing the capacity of the HFC network to allow for all additional users ...
["4. Increasing the capacity of the parts of the HFC Network that are struggling under the existing load, or that are in disrepair,
The doability and viability of what would be the worlds 1st HFCttVDSL...
Gosh, wouldn't it have been so much easier just to build a brand new network altogether...
No need to pay off Telstra and Optus, no need to hodge podge all these different technologies together... :/
Do you mean when some people start moving between properties and taking the Arris modem with them (even though there is advice NOT to do this) that it may not work at their new address?
No, it will still work, but how NBN Co do it for FTTH, and how I would expect it for HFC is that the HFC modem is bound to the location ID. You can take it with you, but it will cause problems. FWIW this binding is what Opticomm do with their HFC so its not new. The Arris modem is the property of NBN Co, removing it without authorisation is a federal offence as it is a declared network termination device (thus part of the carrier network).
What if a neighbour loans you their Arris modem, will it still work?
Probably (for why only probable but not certain see below), but you will get their service, or if they have no service will have to be ordered to your neighbours address, but again, carrier network equipment is a federal offence to interfere with, so would be illegal to do.
Hard to believe that it can be bound to a specific address (apart from an entry in their database
This is exactly what I mean. If you take the Arris modem with you from say Chadstone, Melbourne and move to Blacktown, NSW it probably won't work. I imagine that they would have controls in place to prevent this from happening (i.e: a Victorian Location ID registering on a NSW CMTS). I don't know how they are managing the HFC network, but they could bind it to CMTS, or even down to the port on the CMTS. If its the former the modem would work anywhere within the service area that has HFC, and if its the latter it would only work on the virtual optical node (either physical optical node, or if they are doing virtual splits, all optical nodes that share the same downlink port). They could of course restrict it further by limiting it to the uplink port too. Given the speeds that NBN Co are offering for upload it is likely that on an optical node even if they use 1 downlink port for all segments (4-way segmenaible) they will be using an uplink port for each segment. In the case where you and your neighbour are on different optical nodes or different segments, and it is locked down to the uplink port you wouldn't be able to use their modem. This would be consistent too, AIUI with FTTH they lock the NTD to the port that your LOCID is assigned to on the FSAM.
I suppose with the whole competition thing that they (in particular the ACCC) don't just want to auto setup Telstra as the retailer on nbn's systems for these existing connections, even though the bulk of them will probably end up that way.
Correct. ACCC already have enough problems with Telstra having insider knowledge of when an area is going to be ready as they are the construction partner. An automatic flick of the switch transition would certainly be of great concern to them.
Are the changes to nbn's IT systems even complete to handle HFC connections?
We would need a committee hearing to ask that question, and even then the response will probably be CiC, but, I would say its likely that they are. They've had nearly 3 years to implement all the changes for FTTB/N and HFC, even if they waited until they signed their supply contract, they had a bit over 1 year 4 months to make the system ready for service. If a 1000 member strong I.T team can't get that ready in time, the lot of them need to be sacked because they're a waste of money.
Perhaps that could be another reason they want to take an ordered (read: slow) approach to this and not have it turn into a major debacle for them.
I think its more likely that they want to get the NTD installation procedure in order first. Establish procedures for this, then hand over the manual on how to do it to RSPs given they want to palm this task off onto them.
6SPT-05 which is in the middle of a FTTP area and nominally listed for HFC is also absent from the WA roll-out list...again. Any thoughts...I have this feeling we are going to be left with some tail end rollout years down the line.
II have been limping along on average ASDL 4/1 have the option of jumping to Telstra cable...I have put it off as the NBN has been always imminent but I'm thinking of giving up on the NBN. If I switch to cable now does that mean when NBN does turn up the will need to leave me on cable rather than switch me back to copper?
Are the changes to nbn's IT systems even complete to handle HFC connections? There were some doubts that they would be ready this early and that manual steps would be required in the interim. Perhaps that could be another reason they want to take an ordered (read: slow) approach to this and not have it turn into a major debacle for them.
That may well be the reason why Telstra (excluding the Telstra owned Belong) is not yet retailing NBN HFC in either Ocean Reef (ex Telstra HFC) or Redcliffe (Ex Optus HFC) despite both areas being declared RFS and customers already ordering and with active services on the NBN HFC via Optus, TPG or Exetel.
Gosh, wouldn't it have been so much easier just to build a brand new network altogether...
That was the NBN Plan before the LNP came to power in 2013.
No need to pay off Telstra and Optus, no need to hodge podge all these different technologies together... :/
There were already payments set for Telstra and Optus under the pre- LNP 2013 plan for NBNCo to get a wholesale monopoly of all those Telstra and Optus HFC customers and to pay Telstra and Optus to shut down their HFC Networks (for Broadband use: Telstra could still use their HFC to deliver Foxtel), and to not use their HFC Networks or any other Fixed Line Network to compete against the NBNCo fixed line monopoly.
Do you mean when some people start moving between properties and taking the Arris modem with them
What happens to my nbn� connection box and other equipment if I move? Your nbn� supplied equipment is the property of nbn and should not be removed from the premises in which it was originally installed. Contact your service provider for advice on connecting services at your new premises.
Why would anyone need to take the NBN HFC Arris modem with them to a new property? Its of no use to them. It does not even have a build in router or wireless router.
WhatsNew, were you aware that the Arris modem is not a router or wireless router? That you will need to supply your own wireless router or use one supplied by your RSP that comes when you order your new NBN HFC.
['nbn� connection box: This is an Arris Touchstone CM820 Cable Modem. It is designed to deliver high-speed data and supports one data (UNI-D) port for connection to the equipment supplied by your service provider (such as your gateway (router) and Ethernet cable). Your nbn� connection box will be supplied with a power cord that will plug into a power point in your premises. Placement of your nbn� connection box: your nbn� connection box will be connected to the wall outlet via the supplied coaxial fly lead. It is designed to be free standing and can be placed either vertically or horizontally.
Your service provider should supply additional equipment such as a gateway (router) and Ethernet cable that will connect all of your internet and telephone devices as required.
I think its more likely that they want to get the NTD installation procedure in order first. Establish procedures for this, then hand over the manual on how to do it to RSPs given they want to palm this task off onto them.
With above linked retail customer user Guide having been out since June 2013. you'd have thought that the accompanying procedures manual for the tech installers would have been in place by now. They appear to be in place for Optus and TPG and Exetel.
Telstra must have something in mind for Ocean Reef, I am on HFC cable and got a letter this week inviting me to participate in their NBN HFC Pilot even offering me a credit to my existing account for the trouble.
I noticed HFC work on some backstreets in Salisbury North around January and Salisbury Hieghts/brahma lodge as far back as March. In July i started seeing work in Parafield gardens.
Yes, in July or August there was a 3 or 4 day interruption in Salisbury East of Foxtel for 'upgrades'.
I think the Salisbury area has had Telstra HFC for over 20 years now. Everyone i know in the area has at some point been signed up to Foxtel or cable as far back as 1996-98. So there should be allot of leadins already installed. I still know allot of people here on HFC for internet.
Interestingly, back then they even did some MDUs, for no install charge. Things are different these days.
Telstra must have something in mind for Ocean Reef, I am on HFC cable and got a letter this week inviting me to participate in their NBN HFC Pilot even offering me a credit to my existing account for the trouble.
How can NBNCo declare Ocean Reef WA as NBN RFS, when Telstra is only just about to do an NBN HFC Pilot.
More like Ready for sleep, than ready for service.
Or NBNCo's definition of service is not actually a working Service and is broad enough to exclude the market share leader (Telstra).
RFS should not be able to be declared until at least the three main RSP's Telstra, Optus and TPG (Group) are all ready to retail the HFC Services, or have a damn good excuse as to why they are not ready to retail HFC, and it is their own fault and not NBNCo's.
Why is Telstra only now doing an NBN HFC Pilot?
Surely this should have been done before NBNCo declared Ocean reef RFS, not after.
Apparently not. Looks like all the Perth metro HFC areas will be RFS by June 2017
Not sure if that's the case, I think some HFC areas have been cancelled and moved to FTTN installs. I think it may be related to this .
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/20
" NBN Co has moved 1.2 million premises from the �HFC� pile to the �FTTN� pile in its construction planning, which is bad news for anyone living in those premises. As for who that is exactly, we�ll have to wait a little longer to find out."
I might be wrong (and quite often am) but I think Woodvale and Kingsley (6KSL) which I believe have Tesltra HFC have had their RFS dates moved. Edgewater 6KSL also which was supposed to start FTTN in 3rd quarter 2016 no longer has an expected construction start due to "unexpected delays" elsewhere on the 6KSL project and I suspect Kinglsey will now be FTTN and also maybe Woodvale which accounts for the delay (so much for poorly served getting priority as per the SOE) to Edgewater which has really bad ADSL due to min 2.4 km distance from the Exchange (Wanneroo) and is considered E class by the mybroadband.
I suspect Kinglsey will now be FTTN and also maybe Woodvale which accounts for the delay
So why would they have installed an Arris CMTS a couple of months ago in the Kingsley exchange service area? Doesn't really make sense.
Also � I read the HFC being changed to FTTN was Optus HFC due to it's alleged poor condition. My Telstra cable works perfectly.
Like I said maybe wrong but look at this
NBN 3 year plan October 2015 http://www.nbnco.com.au/conte
" WA 6KSL Kingsley Darch, Edgewater, Landsdale, Madeley 9900 FTTN Q2-2016
WA 6KSL Kingsley Kingsley, Woodvale 7500 HFC H1-2017 "
Telstra RFS https://www.telstrawholesale.
Second sheet Expected RFS � DCD
6KSL-01 Landsdale WA Wangara Depot CSA 04-Nov-2016
6KSL-02 Darch,Landsdale WA Wangara Depot CSA 18-Nov-2016
6KSL-03 Darch,Landsdale,Madeley WA Wangara Depot CSA 16-Dec-2016
6KSL-04 Madeley WA Wangara Depot CSA 17-Feb-2017
6KSL-05 Kingsley WA Wangara Depot CSA 01-Aug-2017
KIngsley now 01 AUg 2017 and Woodvale and Edgewater not on the list
Probablyyou are right it doesn't make sense !
How long before NBNCo and the NBN RSP's employ a legion of forum monitors who come in to engage direct with retail customers on what is happening with specific parts of the rollout, like HFC, and answer NBN technical questions with posts for all to read and not just private messaging?
WhatsNew, were you aware that the Arris modem is not a router or wireless router?
I am fully aware and would not try, or have the desire, to take it with me personally, however I have seen others on whirlpool mention that FTTP NTDs have "gone missing" with previous occupants, and those devices are at least (always) fixed to walls (I believe) whereas the Arris modems are not. I'm sure it will happen that people will think they are their own property (much like any other comms device they've received in the past) and assume that they can use them at their new address.
I assume HFC connectivity is at the moment is via the local telephone exchange. In the case where the local exchange is being closed and the NBN is connected to a POI further away, where does that leave Foxtel subscribers ?
We would need a committee hearing to ask that question, and even then the response will probably be CiC, but, I would say its likely that they are. They've had nearly 3 years to implement all the changes for FTTB/N and HFC, even if they waited until they signed their supply contract, they had a bit over 1 year 4 months to make the system ready for service. If a 1000 member strong I.T team can't get that ready in time, the lot of them need to be sacked because they're a waste of money.
OK, I only mentioned it because it was raised several times as a risk in the Corporate Plan for 2016 (released in August 2015):
(page 32): The timely delivery of IT and network releases to support multiple technologies is also a critical challenge, as is RSP readiness (operationally and commercially) to sell and serve end-users at scale
(page 52): Critical path and milestones: development of an IT platform to support the construction trials and the H2-FY16 launch.
(page 56): IT has end-to-end solutions in place for FTTP, FW and FTTB, and is now building out LTSS, FTTN/B and commencing HFC (my bold).
(page 73): The timely delivery of IT and network releases to support multiple technologies is also a critical challenge, as is RSP readiness (operationally and commercially) to sell and serve end-users at scale (Oh, they said that one already).
(page 76): IT functionality: FTTN and HFC launch and scale capabilities are dependent on oversubscribed IT releases, and may require manual workarounds (when possible) or become delayed
They were concerned that any delays to the commercial launch dates would cost them a lot of money, hence even manual workarounds were considered acceptable.
I'd check the latest Corporate Plan to see what it says but I could only find a 16 page media release about it and not the actual CP.
I assume HFC connectivity is at the moment is via the local telephone exchange.
Iirc only about 200 exchanges are needed to host the existing Telstra HFC CMTS's.
So you are saying that even Telstra have not provisioned enough CVCs, and going from their Telstra Cable network to Telstra NBN will result in lower speeds due to congestion from them not taking up enough exorbitantly priced NBN CVCs (compared to the cheaper price they could previously move data across their own Telstra infrastructure)?
And yet Telstra AGVC, the equivalent to CVC for people using their wholesale network was more expensive again than CVC.
Surely they weren't gouging people worse than the evil NBN?
I'm sure it will happen that people will think they are their own property (much like any other comms device they've received in the past) and assume that they can use them at their new address.
Not if there is huge warning sticker on them, in multiple languages saying.
"Property of NBN"
"In case of moving property please leave for the next owner"
"It will not work at another property"
"It is worthless to sell, (a bit like the nbn:)
Wouldn't it be great if you could just pick up your Arris Modem that you had decorated to match the decor of your home, and just take it to your next home or small business and have exactly the same service, with the same performance as your previous home or small business. Just like was intended with the Utopia we can only dream of that was FTTP to over 90% of Australian non MDU's, FTTP to villas and townhouses, and small blocks of quickly doable units, with FTTB to the rest of the MDU's.
So they recently "did some upgrade work" on my HFC connection. I now see 119Mbit/2.4Mbit uncontested consistently. I do however note that some residents in the locale were swapped to an Arris CMTS, but many of us were left behind.
Does not being swapped to the Arris CMTS denote or suggest that some of us will be 'left behind' HFC NBN-wise? I've heard several people comment to the effect of the Arris CMTS being the NBN HFC platform....but?
Thoughts?
-z
I hope the tax payer has not paid for the Arris high speed Thingies if they are not going to be connected to the NBN after all
(so much for poorly served getting priority as per the SOE)
Very true.
I live in Surrey Hills ( Canterbury Exchange ), Melbourne where we have very good HFC.
110 + Mbps even in peak periods.
So surprising we are scheuled for HFC RFS on January 27, 2017.
I think this is happening because there is a large number of Foxtel and Cable Broadband households, so little work required on new lead-ins.
Seems to me this is being done for political reasons, so NBN can up its conmpletion statistics as quickly as possible.
That may well be the reason why Telstra (excluding the Telstra owned Belong) is not yet retailing NBN HFC
More likely because they have not settled with ACCC on the subject of not having an unfair advantage over other service providers because of their role as main contractor to NBN.
Surely they weren't gouging people worse than the evil NBN?
Oh Telstra is the worst! :) Not a Telstra fan here, there is just no choice, since ADSL is poor.
So surprising we are scheuled for HFC RFS on January 27, 2017.
Why surprising? :)
Seems to me this is being done for political reasons, so NBN can up its conmpletion statistics as quickly as possible.
It will allow ADSL users to move to the "faster, cheaper, better" new NBN that they were promised as quickly as possible, like you say. That's good, and surely speediness is the only reason to acquire HFC anyway? :)
More likely because they have not settled with ACCC on the subject of not having an unfair advantage over other service providers because of their role as main contractor to NBN.
Or because Foxtel is not ready yet and they have an agreement with Foxtel to launch retail HFC as the same time as Foxtel.
Or with my tin foil hat on ...... possibly Telstra only launch retail HFC under the Foxtel and the Belong Brand (that ones a long shot cos it might lose Telstra a whole load of market share for those not so enamoured with the Foxtel Brand or its current association with News Corp, Fox News in the US, or Rupert M in general)?
DUP
When ADSL users migrate to NBN's HFC will there be any sort of performance improvements to those stuck on copper in the infill areas?
When ADSL users migrate to NBN's HFC will there be any sort of performance improvements to those stuck on copper in the infill areas?
2020 is not far away and just networking limited parts of an area onto HFC and keeping ADSL running for a few more years would seem a strange design policy.
It depends on the time frame, copper node change over and HFC fill in ready time.
If a home has existing HFC a good prediction of getting NBN HFC could have been expected.
Using more nodes in areas with HFC saw that policy change a bit.
If the area has a node and HFC and some HFC design issues exist then it might soon be node time.
ADSL users connecting back to an exchange or RIM tophat could all be on the node as a fill in network around the HFC around the same time. The streets and suburb could then all be considered fully connected to some new type network before 2020.
Will the exchange or RIM work better per ADSL with some HFC users removed before its all node time or HFC?
Lets hope the node is ready in that area on time :)
Having to fully support adsl, node copper and HFC for many months or longer in the same area for new homes would be an interesting design policy given the 2020 date.
Having to fully support adsl, node copper and HFC for weeks, months or longer in the same area will be for new homes would be an interesting design policy given the 2020 date.
Not to forget, potentially having to also support HFCttVDSL (HFC infill), FTTP (Greenfields MDU) and FTTB (large MDU) in the same area.
NBN/MTM should be more like Apple (KISS, well designed, quality) and less like Samsung.
MTM doing a reverse Samsung Galaxy Note 7.
(Fire sale) versus (sale then fire).
Not sure how a product recall is going to work for some of the MTM technologies.
Maybe more "I don't recall" in the public dock, than admitting they failed.
MTM doing a reverse Samsung Galaxy Note 7.
(Fire sale) versus (sale then fire).
ROFL :D
[Was this zinger ghost written by Bill Shorten this time? :P]
It depends on the time frame, copper node change over and HFC fill in ready time.
If a home has existing HFC a good prediction of getting NBN HFC could have been expected.
Using more nodes in areas with HFC saw that policy change a bit.
The Telstra HFC NBN have taken over runs behind my house but not in front so I'm going to be in-fill. NBN are going live with the taken over HFC from Nov through to Dec depending on which part of my suburb. No work has been done outside of the HFC migration hence why I'm wondering whether I'll see any improvement while being stuck on copper as houses around me move over to HFC.
[Was this zinger ghost written by Bill Shorten this time? :P]
The MTM is even more like Samsung and less like Apple/Android in that ...
Mobile Hardware Device OS patches and upgrades are usually frequent and free to all Apple Models from the last approx. 4 years (at least). Whereas for Samsung (Android) Devices (with the exception of pure Google Devices (i.e Nexus)), the patches and upgrades can take a very long time to get to your device, via your mobile carrier or hardware manufacturer, if you are lucky to get them at all on your older model, or do not want to get them via other means that might break your warranty and risk bricking your device in the process.
(Ghost written by Steve Jobs with some assistance from Kevin007)
007 cos he's secretly zeroing in on MT(M)ttUNUbastard! for payback time.
With Construction to start on loads of Optus only areas in H2 2016 according to the last publicly released NBNCo schedule documents, and no word or signs of design or construction commencing for these Optus only HFC areas
Are you sure? The brown areas of this map indicate Optus only cable areas that look to be on track for service later this year.
Just checked the nbn rollout map and these areas (Optus only HFC) are no longer listed as "under construction." I would speculate they are now for FTTN at some future date and the rollout in Optus only areas looks doomed. Has anybody else's HFC rollout rolled back from "construction started" to "not yet."
Just checked the nbn rollout map and these areas (Optus only HFC) are no longer listed as "under construction." I would speculate they are now for FTTN at some future date and the rollout in Optus only areas looks doomed.
Looks like yob could still be in for a nasty surprise with the Coburg North and Pascoe Vale NBN shade of MTM mix.
With Construction to start on loads of Optus only areas in H2 2016 according to the last publicly released NBNCo schedule documents, and no word or signs of design or construction commencing for these Optus only HFC areas, like mine, it's hardly surprising that many people are concerned that their existing Optus HFC might get abandoned and replaced with FTTN or worse if they are a loser in any FTTN lottery.
What we don't definitely yet know, is if NBNCo have switched from the originally planned HFC to FTTN.
I can't say for sure, but I'd be very surprised if it's not HFC.
Let's see if there is any corresponding update on the NBNCo construction plan for these NBN HFC areas gone awol http://www.nbnco.com.au/learn
Nope! The bulk of Coburg North and Pascoe Vale is still listed for H2 2016 construction start. Which leaves some hope that they might still get NBN HFC as opposed to NBN FTTN.
Let's see if there is any corresponding update on the NBNCo construction plan for these NBN HFC areas gone awol http://www.nbnco.com.au/learn
Nope! The bulk of Coburg North and Pascoe Vale is still listed for H2 2016 construction start. Which leaves some hope that they might still get NBN HFC as opposed to NBN FTTN.
That document is nearly a year old. It won't show any change that has been made to the technology type or rollout schedule.
That document is nearly a year old. It won't show any change that has been made to the technology type.
Go have another look at http://www.nbnco.com.au/learn
There is the year old document linked at the top and then underneath (on the desktop version of the site only)
a table of the next 2 years which there has already seen some inconclusive debate on whirlpool as to whether the table (not the file) is being updated on a regular basis.
I'll go do a comparison of the downloadable file to the table, and see if I can find any differences that indicate that the table is more up to date
Edit. The 2 sets of info look exactly the same, which means that both are 12 months out of date.
Peak hour on the shiny new NBN HFC in Redcliffe is not going so well for this poster.
whrl.pl/ReIo1r
Connected with Exetel on their 100/40 plan. Can't even watch a 1080p youtube video during peak hours! Fine in off peak, but absolutly useless after 6 or 7 pm until late night.
Imagine the stink that will be kicked up if this is replicated from existing HFC customers who can watch 1080p youtube videos AOK during peak hours under their Optus/Telstra HFC now, and then after moving to NBN HFC and staying with the same RSP, they find that they can't successfully stream 1080p youtube video during every day peak hours even if they are on one of the higher or highest speed tiers.
I daresay that some NBNCo execs and Ministers will be losing a bit of sleep over this in the next 12 months, as more HFC areas go RFS.
I daresay that some NBNCo execs and Ministers will be losing a bit of sleep over this in the next 12 months,
The one you quoted was someone who changed to a different RSP though, Exetel rather than Telstra or Optus.
Either:
- It's a CVC issue, 100% RSP fault;
- It's an NBN "backhaul" issue, 100% NBN fault;
- It's a bit of both?
I can imagine the default defense will be an offense to say that the RSPs are at fault for not purchasing enough CVC? :)
I can imagine the default defense will be an offense to say that the RSPs are at fault for not purchasing enough CVC? :)
NBNCo should be working together with the RSP's to ensure that they purchase enough CVC otherwise it will reflect poorly on both the Federal Government, NBNCo and the RSP.
In addition, The ACCC should be heavily penalising RSP's who do not purchase enough CVC.
- It's a CVC issue, 100% RSP fault;
- It's an NBN "backhaul" issue, 100% NBN fault;
- It's a bit of both?
Yes, there needs to be more data points.
We know that budget telco's such as Exetel will likely scrimp on CVC, however the CVC problem isn't solely a HFC one. We need to see what the service is like for "premium" ISP's such as Telstra and Optus.
Looks like yob could still be in for a nasty surprise with the Coburg North and Pascoe Vale NBN shade of MTM mix
On the evidence so far, it's not looking good!
I was so looking forward to ditching our ye olde direct buried copper line too...
The last time I checked, they were getting about 47/19 during offpeak hours, and 20/5 during peak hours.
Ouch! As expected the compromised upstream gets affected real quick too now (I don't think I have seen this for FTTN or FTTP, there it is only downstream that degrades during peak).
As feared NBN HFC is proving to be worse than FTTN during peak.
As feared NBN HFC is proving to be worse than FTTN during peak.
You mean, as predicted by anyone capable of simple math calculations!
You mean, as predicted by anyone capable of simple math calculations!
And Ive posted multiple times to try and make it as simple as possible, however the MTM-zealots kept trying to assure us that it would be fine.
Its so fine, that in many cases, NBN is now refusing to do it!
You mean, as predicted by anyone capable of simple math calculations!
Wait, why? :)
Because of CVC underprovision? Or because of NBN insufficient infrastructure? Or simply because you add every internet user in an area to HFC (instead of just the odd user here and there) and it doesn't work so good anymore?
Because of CVC underprovision? Or because of NBN insufficient infrastructure? Or simply because you add every internet user in an area to HFC (instead of just the odd user here and there) and it doesn't work so good anymore?
All of the above.
NBNCo should be working together with the RSP's to ensure that they purchase enough CVC
There's no such thing as 'enough CVC'. NBN is designed so that RSPs get to decide how much CVC to sell their end users and how much to charge them. NBN 'supports' premium products with high CVC providioning as well as budget offerings with high CVC contention for people who only care about price.
So NBN doesn't 'work with' ISPs to dictate their business models. You need to buy from an ISP whose business model suits your needs best.
In addition, The ACCC should be heavily penalising RSP's who do not purchase enough CVC.
Yet again this 'enough CVC' concept. Which doesn't exist.
If 'enough CVC' means people always get maximum speeds then product prices need to increase tenfold. Are you and everybody else willing to pay business grade prices for your residential services? Because that seems to be the path you want the ACCC to take, mandating a product that nobody will buy.
So instead the ACCC are looking at better ways to force ISPs to disclose their minimum speeds or contention ratios, but putting it back on the end user to purchase a product that meets their needs, but making the choices and tradeoffs they make more apparent to them.
NBNCo should be working together with the RSP's to ensure that they purchase enough CVC
NBN have done exactly the opposite. They're 'double dipping' on the cost of a wholesale customer for all RSPs. They're charging an AVC price for a subscriber based on the bandwidth that's provisioned (more for a 100mbit/s subscriber than for a 25mbit/s subscriber), and then charging for the CVC capacity to accommodate the subscribers.
The business model here should be a one-off price per AVC, and automatic CVC capacity to accommodate the provisioned customer. Of course there's no hidden costs then, and we all know how businesses like hidden costs.
I know that RSPS can order a certain amount of CVC, but how can they handle the case of more CVC capacity required at peak times compared to off peak times?
As feared NBN HFC is proving to be worse than FTTN during peak.
Precisely why I've previously stated I'd rather be in line for FTTN than NBN HFC. At the very least with FTTN you know what speed your physical connection is capable of, and therefore any speed issues outside of what your connection can physically handle, could generally be blamed at the RSP level.
With HFC, you're completely in the dark as to whether you should be blaming NBN for having too many premises connected to a node, or whether it's an RSP CVC issue. In such a case you've got exactly two chances at getting the issue resolved � Buckley's and none.
but how can they handle the case of more CVC capacity required at peak times compared to off peak times?
They don't. You don't vary CVC capacity dynamically... you pay NBN for x amount, until x amount isn't enough... and increase it to x+y amount. Then you increase to x+y+z when you see unreasonable congestion.
It's likely that to increase the bandwidth for a CSA/CVC it might take a few days/a week (or more) so your capacity planning people will apply for the budget from the account types, fill out all the internal paperwork before getting approval, then place the order with NBN. And NBN will increase the bandwidth whenever they see fit... once the commitment to the extra $ is made.
As far as 'peak' and 'off-peak' goes... it is exactly what it says. You plan for no congestion in off-peak times, but get as close to full capacity as you can. Then in peak times you congest the links... because it's peak times. No-one pays enough for a residential internet service to get a 1:1 contention ratio.
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